The 100 Greatest Angels: #44 Bobby Knoop

by Rev Halofan on Jan 15, 2006 1:14 AM PST in Top 100 Angels (2005) Comment 7 comments

#44 - Bobby Knoop, 2B

Growing up in the 1970s, no Angels infielder was spared comparison to the great Bobby Knoop. Even now there are occasions on which longtime Angel fans fed a steady diet of Dick Enberg's broadcasts might assert that Knoop was the greatest Bobby in the history of the organization. Such are the thing that legends are made of. The truth is a little less flattering. Bobby Knoop played 803 games as the Angels 2nd Baseman, was a GREAT fielder (edit - see comments) and of 32 Angels batters with 2,000 or more Plate Appearances, Knoop is 29th in Batting Average, 27th in On Base Percentage and 25th in Slugging %. And that makes this mid-1960s second sacker All-Time Angel#44.

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league average fielder ?

In 1966 the Pittsburgh Pirates and California Angels defenses battled for the all-time doubleplays record. The Pirates led by Bill Mazeroski and Gene Alley set the major league record of 215 doubleplays. The Angels led by Bobby Knoop and Jim Fregosi set the A.L. record of 186. Yes, both the Pirates and Angels pitching staffs in 1966 were very generous in allowing baserunners.

This member of the 1966 Junior Angels can vouch that Bobby Knoop was the better half of the Angels doubleplay combination. Bobby Knoop got his uniform dirtier than Davey Lopes did. On a seasonal basis I would hazard a guess that Knoop dove for more groundballs than Lopes stole bases.

I was stationed at Offutt AFB, Omaha, Nebraska in 1971-72 and frequently drove to Kansas City on weekends to see the Royals play. Bobby Knoop was the back-up second baseman behind Cookie Rojas on those Royals teams. With Kansas City at the end of his career Knoop was a league average fielder.

Bobby won the A.L. Gold Glove award for second baseman as a member of the Angels in 1966, 1967, and 1968. There was nothing league average about Knoop's defense with the Angels. Criticize Knoop's bat if you will. The 1966 season was Knoop's all around best season. He had 11 triples, 17 home runs, and an Angels-leading 72 rbis. Yes, he only batted .232. However, before Labor Day he was batting above .255. A September slump hurt his average.

by Yetijuice on Jan 15, 2006 3:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Stats:

2B League Fielding % / Knoop F%

1964 .980 / .978
1965 .978 / .971
1966 .975 / .981
1967 .979 / .986
1968 .977 / .981

I stand slightly corrected...

by Rev Halofan on Jan 15, 2006 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Fielding pct. ain't where it's at for 2B eval

I'm more interested in range, and especially making double plays.

In 1966, the Angels not only led the AL in DPs turned by 32, they also led the league in over-producing their "expected double plays" (a number arrived at based on how many people were on first base with 0 or 1 outs), by 21. They also led the league in DPs & overshooting expected DPs in 1968. The only other time the team managed that two-fer was in 1985, behind Bobby Grich.

Win Shares ranks Knoop as the 33rd best defensive 2Bman among the 290 who played more than 3,070 innings there. That's higher than Willie Randolph, Joe Gordon, Ryne Sandberg, Roberto Alomar, and Jim Gantner, among others. Bill James rates Knoop's D as an "A-," whatever that means. He also won those 3 Gold Gloves.

He was a very good fielder who didn't hit much, and a great Angel. Though if you make a list of the 10 greatest seasons by Angels 2Bmen (according to Win Shares), he doesn't come close. (Nor does Adam Kennedy, for that matter.) Doesn't mean either weren't good, but second base has been the franchise's strong point.

by mattwelch on Jan 16, 2006 12:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Top 10 seasons by an Angel 2Bman

Using Win Shares:

30.8 Grich, 1987
28.4 Grich, 1979
24.3 Billy Moran (!), 1962
21.2 Grich, 1982
21.1 Sandy Alomar, 1971
20.7 Johnny Ray, 1988
20.4 Grich, 1978
20.4 Grich, 1983
19.8 Grich, 1980
18.5 Grich, 1985

Knoop's seasons:

10.9
15.9
18.1
17.8
15.2

Kennedy's:

11.4
8.0
17.1
13.5
12.6
16.6

by mattwelch on Jan 16, 2006 12:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

That first Grich season...

... was 1981. Adjusted to 162 games.

by mattwelch on Jan 16, 2006 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good research - so...

...what percentage of Dean Chance's Cy Young do we award to Knoop?

by Rev Halofan on Jan 16, 2006 12:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Knoop

One thing about Knoop is that his offense looks worse than it was because (1) he had an awful rookie year with the bat and (2) he played in the mid-60s. Take out his rookie year and his 85 plate appearances in 1969 and you have a guy that put up four years with an OPS+ of 96 and great defense; this isn't far off of what Adam Kennedy has brought us from 2002-2005.

And while Adam has the postseason heroics, Knoop devoted a lot of years to the organization, so that counts for something. I had Adam 24th on my list and Knoop 27th, but I'm a sucker for slick-fielding pivot men.

-BHW (Chronicles)

The worst thing is the day you realize you want to win more than the players do. -Gene Mauch

by Chronicles on Jan 17, 2006 5:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs