Vote for a Vernon Wells trade

by atomburn on Nov 19, 2006 5:49 PM PST

With some much talk on HH about a potential VW trade who do you think it will take to land him?

There are a couple trains of thought here.

Use only players from positions that we're stocked at or won't get the time of day with our depth charts: Izturis, Aybar, Figgins, Willits, Murphy, Mathis, Bootcheck... and now, arguably, Shields

Use some of those players along with Santana or Saunders in a package, then sign Zito.

Poll

Who will it take to land Vernon Wells?

Shields Mathis Aybar

7 votes

Saunders, Figgins and Aybar or Izturis

25 votes

Saunders, Cabrera and Mathis

14 votes

Cabrera, Mathis and Willits or Murphy

3 votes

Santana and Figgins

31 votes

Santana straight up

5 votes

Shields and Santana or Saunders

14 votes

99 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

It would take more than any of that to get him before this season.

Maybe like Santana, Wood, Mathis and Figgins.

Not that I reccomend giving all that up.

by elricsi on Nov 19, 2006 6:02 PM PST reply actions

No

After Matsuzaka, pitching is very valuable. Santana was extremely valuable to begin with, there's no way we should have to trade the entire farm now if we give them Ervin.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 19, 2006 6:04 PM PST up reply actions

Toronto's in win-now mode

And Atlanta wants to move Andruw. Time to focus on Georgia.

by mattwelch on Nov 19, 2006 6:08 PM PST reply actions

If Stoneman thinks this is the "big bat" we're getting, I'm going to start a petition to fire him now. Yeah he hit 51 homers two years ago, but that was in the NL. Yeah at worst that would've meant 35 or so in the AL, which would be good...but we need a guy with a better than .260 BA.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5681

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 19, 2006 6:14 PM PST up reply actions

C'mon...

We used to have a certain player who rarely cracked .260 but managed to be our World Series MVP.....

"The last time we got in a fight, we won the Series," Lackey said. "I'll be OK with that. Let's get it rolling."

by atomburn on Nov 19, 2006 6:25 PM PST up reply actions

Double-sigh

The sixth most home runs by age 29 IN HISTORY, tied with, oh, HANK FREAKIN' AARON.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/leaders_29_bat.shtml

Yeah, he hit just a tad above .260 the last three years. But he also hit 121 HOME RUNS, including 68 on the road, and his on-base percentage last year would have ranked third on the Angels, just behind Izturis. Oh, and he's driven in 128 and 129 runs the last two years, scored 100+ runs four times (including last year) and driven in 100+ five times.

All this, incidentally, while playing Gold Glove center field.

Tell me, whose available bat has more "impact"?

by mattwelch on Nov 19, 2006 6:32 PM PST up reply actions

Not entirely convinced

It seems to me that Jones will certainly have short term impact in terms of his power and will definitely be a defensive upgrade over Figgy, but I still question (1) how well this will translate to the new league and (2) whether we're better off experiencing the massive upside of an already powerful CF who won't be even close to 30 next year as opposed to someone almost on the wrong side of 30 who's already started a decline. I.e., he hit 51 HR two years ago, but that dropped to 41 this past year--if that goes down at the same rate (as this is only a possibility and completely unscientific), he'll hit 31 this year, which is good, but in 2008 that'll be 21, in 2009 probably 15-ish...and then what?

:-D

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 19, 2006 6:51 PM PST up reply actions

Why is it that everytime

a player's stats don't match exactly to the level of the previous year's stats, someone has to scream "DECLINE!"?

his 41 homers in '06 were the second highest total of his career. singling out a single statistic as having declined from one year to the next doesn't mean the guy has peaked and is on the downward end of his career, it means that it's just highly statistically improbable that he would exactly match his numbers from one year to the next. he's still hitting at his peak-level, and a drop in home runs (to a "woeful" 41) doesn't mean that he's going to drop 10 the next year, and 10 the next...it means he had a freakin' career high that is next-to-impossible to match, but still put on a fucking tremendous power show in '06, anyway.

he draws a decent number of walks, he drives in runs, he hits the long ball, and he plays a tremendous centerfield. he turns 30 in mid/late april, so he's no younger than soriano. if we can get him for some of the names that have been pitched, and have a negotiating window to keep him with us for several years, i'll take it.

and people need to stop hacking arbitrary numbers off of a hitter's averages because of a move to the AL. Vlad, anyone? Some guys can just hit...plain and simple. doesn't matter who is throwing the ball, they'll mash. assuming automatically that there will be some substantial dropoff is not necessary for everyone.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Nov 19, 2006 7:04 PM PST up reply actions

True

I had forgotten about the whole Vlad thing. Yet it's important that we not go to the other extreme and assume they'll automatically be the same if not better...

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 19, 2006 8:32 PM PST up reply actions

Only one person here was going "extreme"

by mattwelch on Nov 19, 2006 9:03 PM PST up reply actions

are your initials j.s.?

Another poster mentioned this as well, but I am hesitant to sign a player that appears to be playing at half speed, sometimes. I fear GA and AJ showing each other up in the outfield by seeing who can run down a pop-up the slowest.

by george bush on Nov 19, 2006 9:13 PM PST up reply actions

Tough to play fantastic CF

When yr going half-speed. Yet that's what they used to accuse Willie Davis of, too. Weird, that.

by mattwelch on Nov 19, 2006 9:16 PM PST up reply actions

Just messing with you Clutch.

Some would say GA plays an adequate LF, yet we all know he could hustle a bit more. And I don't have to tell you that calling someone a gold glover is a misnomer.

by george bush on Nov 19, 2006 10:07 PM PST up reply actions

What are you talking about?

Derek Jeter is the greatest thing to ever defensively happen to the shortstop position.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Nov 19, 2006 10:19 PM PST up reply actions

Yeah, no

If I get remotely close to j.s. territory, please do bitchslap me upside the head and I'll shut up for a while.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 19, 2006 9:52 PM PST up reply actions

Because it's often true

Failure is more common in this game than success, or hadn't you noticed that?

Fire Mickey Hatcher. An entire generation of Angels offense depends upon it.

by scareduck on Nov 20, 2006 6:20 AM PST up reply actions

Yeah, and?

How does that relate to this?

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Nov 20, 2006 8:01 AM PST up reply actions

Double sigh indeed

Soriano only hits .270-ish and while he's got SB capability that Jones does not, he's average at best defensively (depending on position) and he's a year older than Andruw.

Who wouldn't take Jones' .260 over Figgins .260???

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Nov 19, 2006 7:43 PM PST up reply actions

I suppose my (attempted) point

Is that Jones wouldn't be a terrible acquisition, and might serve us well, but I don't think he's worth what we're giving him, and he's certainly not worth six years, if that's what his contract extension with Atlanta was for--I'd think three years with an option would be preferable.
I'd just really like to see us make a big push for Wells before we go down the AJ route.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 19, 2006 9:54 PM PST up reply actions

Huh?

Andruw Jones is the premier defensive and offensive CF in either league. There just isn't anyone better period. Wells ain't even close.

by akathelorax @ Halos Heaven on Nov 19, 2006 11:10 PM PST up reply actions

D is slightly below average

See below.

A pipeline of talent, welcome to Anaheim.

by ClutchHomer on Nov 19, 2006 11:35 PM PST up reply actions

Andruw's Glove

Rate2 = 99 in 2006 (Gold Gloves are a mirage, we all know that though right?). His speed has declined as well as we have seen his SB totals drop. All this for increased power production; heck, why not.

A pipeline of talent, welcome to Anaheim.

by ClutchHomer on Nov 19, 2006 9:57 PM PST up reply actions

2nd coming

Andruw reminds me of Junior.

Spectacular defensive rep and speed when young and in the majors at a very young age.

As he gets older he gets that big ass, loses his speed, but hits for great power.

At least Andruw has nowhere near that injury history. All I'm saying is if we get him we better be ready to move him off CF in a couple years if his D numbers there go in the toilet, regardless of "rep".

by elricsi on Nov 19, 2006 10:08 PM PST up reply actions

Druw is remarkably durable

Junior was/is remarkably not.

by mattwelch on Nov 20, 2006 8:17 AM PST up reply actions

At Andruw's Age

Griffey had only had one big injury, and even that was pretty fluky. He wasn't the oft-injured player we think of now until his age 31 season.

Not that I disagree with you. I'm just saying that there's no guarantee Andruw will be as healthy going forward as he has been in the past.

by LA Seitz on Nov 20, 2006 8:27 AM PST up reply actions

And G.A. had never sniffed the DL

until he signed his current 4 year deal at 31.

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Nov 20, 2006 8:51 AM PST up reply actions

weak argument.

Junior is really good/ plays CF/ ghetto booty=Andruw is really good/plays CF/ghetto booty. There's isn't much validiaity to this argument, unless your point was that the ghetto booty is a sign of players demis. In which case your smaple size is exrtemeley low. Any prognostication of unjury or cataclismic decline would be a total fluke if came to fruition. I agrree with the poster who stated that he was the best CF in the game. His production, with out Vlad hitting behind him has been studly, and he's a top five fielder at his position. There are just to many factors to consider when comign up with defense stats. Its all about "intangibles" anyway, jsut ask Joe Morgan.

i have sloppy handwriting

by rjcicc on Nov 20, 2006 12:02 PM PST up reply actions

Its crazy

It says a lot about the current state of the game when three 100 million deals could get done in the same off season. (Sori, Matsuzaka, Zito). Manny's copntract is getting less and less outragous by the minute. John Shurholts is shrewed man, I'd balk at anything dela he proposes justbecuase the kman narely gts ripped off. On the other hand if Vernon Wells can had for Snatana/Figgins/Mathis/Aybar, then why not?

i have sloppy handwriting

by rjcicc on Nov 20, 2006 11:50 AM PST reply actions

4 for 1 deal is alot

I doubt that Stoneman would pull the trigger on such a deal, especially with 3 of them being such young guys, each with a ton of upside.

Matsuzaka isn't really a $100 million deal. It's a special circumstance, so it can't really be counted as another on the of the contracts, since there are two levels on which money must be paid in order to acquire him.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Nov 20, 2006 11:53 AM PST up reply actions

true

you can look at it that way. Regardelss, there is a shit-ton of mula being tossd around this offseason, with a shizer for a GM this doesn't play into our camp very well. Also I would be pissed if Stoneman was balking at the trade becuase he didn't want to throw an Izzy or Aybar into the pot.

i have sloppy handwriting

by rjcicc on Nov 20, 2006 12:07 PM PST up reply actions

Well now,

Not only is Aramis off the market, so is Thomas and so is Soriano. And then the Dodgers resigned Garciaparra.

It looks as if the only free agent hitter out there that the Angels have interest in is J.D. Drew.

So it's down to the trade market. Go for Tejada, AROD, Manny, Wells? They'll be expensive. Wells wants to go to Texas. Manny, AROD and Tejada have no trade clauses. Tejada's the most realistic. My prediction:

Stoneman calls and offers Nick Adenhart and Chone Figgins for Joe Crede. And the White Sox will consider it.
/Peter Griffin

by Stealfirstbase on Nov 20, 2006 1:24 PM PST reply actions

No Way that much for Crede

no way.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 20, 2006 1:31 PM PST up reply actions

Agreed

No way should we give Nick Adenhart and Figgins for Crede. I was reading earlier in offseaon it would be straight Figgins for Crede. Which now that there is no Ramirez - I'm in favor of. Unless we need Figgins to be packaged for a Jones or Wells (which is likely).

Please do something good this offseason...

by gorams77 on Nov 20, 2006 1:36 PM PST up reply actions