Figgins for Crede?

by Brendo on Nov 25, 2006 2:55 PM PST

It's been talked about for long enough, and Buster Olney linked to this in yesterday's Insider blog.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/1124bbcol1124.html

I gotta say, I think this is the best likely option left this offseason. I sincerely don't think the Halos should pursue the blockbuster deal at the cost of our pitching future, and a stable, medium-to-strong power hitter in his 20s to knock runs and play serviceable defense for a good number of years of championship contention.

Crede would be a terrific addition on his own, but moving Figgins helps thin out our blockage of infield prospects and gets us a very good return at perhaps his highest value.

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I would like

to see D-Mac get one more yr to try. I think he is do. Plus the Angels have more prospects behind him for 3rd. Matt Brown in particular, I am a homer for the farm system. I would trade Figgins for another arm in the pen. To SD for Linebrink I believe his name is. It would be a good trade for both teams seeing as Dave Roberts just signed with the Giants.

by higdog on Nov 25, 2006 3:05 PM PST reply actions

Yup

Again, if EA Sports has any sort of accuracy, DMac should be worth a good 22-36 HRs/year pretty soon...:-D 'Course, reality indicates this will only happen if he manages to find his swing and not be crippingly injured. I know Crede would be good for a short-term fix--let DMac sit in AAA for another year so he'll be golden when he comes up in 2008. But I do find it ironic that we're thinking our best hope at this point is in another 3B with chronic back issues.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 25, 2006 3:46 PM PST up reply actions

That's the pretty big "if"...

Crede's back vs. Macpherson's back and, like, every other part of his body... I'll take the guy with 6 years experience in the bigs over the guy who's never stayed healthy long enough to hit 10 HR in a season.

I can't imagine why we wouldn't want to make this trade. Crede comes almost as cheaply as what we pay for Figgins already. It's not like we have such a logjam of guys who can step in and play reliable, every day 3B and tear the cover off the ball that it should be that tough a decision.

I hope the best for DMac, but we need to make the reasonable moves we still can that will enable us to get legitimately better next season, rather than just hoping the money thrown at Matthews makes for us just not getting any worse.

by Brendo on Nov 25, 2006 4:08 PM PST reply actions

Will you guys relax?

I have complete and utter faith in Bill Stoneman. And so should you. All of you.

There was a reason he went out and overpaid for Gary Matthews and Justin Speier. It was all part of the Stoneman genius tactic.

It was all a prelude to a bigger thing. Something bigger than all of us. Something so epic that, when it happens, it will feel like Christmas has struck early. Or late, depending on the date this clairvoyant madman pulls the trigger.

AROD IS COMING.

by bc56274 on Nov 25, 2006 4:39 PM PST reply actions

Dude...

You're prophesizing the aquisition of the highest paid player in baseball history, I'm favoring the nuts-and-bolts trading of two mid-level guys for the simple betterment of both teams... and I'm the one getting worked up?

Your reasoning is so incomplete that to call it a poor argument give such a claim too much credit.

by Brendo on Nov 25, 2006 4:46 PM PST up reply actions

Oh, BS

Stoneman is done with major moves this offseason, he said so himself. Neither of A-Rod nor Manny is happening.

Fire Mickey Hatcher. An entire generation of Angels offense depends upon it.

by scareduck on Nov 25, 2006 5:22 PM PST up reply actions

Crede > Figgins

by Stealfirstbase on Nov 25, 2006 4:51 PM PST reply actions

At This Point

Which would you rather have:

Crede for Figgins

A-Rod for Figgins, McPherson, Saunders and Resop?

by Rev Halofan on Nov 25, 2006 6:11 PM PST reply actions

Well...

If I honestly believed that trade would happen, I'd say go for it, despite my distaste for ARod. See "entitlement" clause in previous diary response re: Bosox.

Luckily for me, that trade's not happening without a proven starting pitcher or possibly Scot with one "t", neither of whom Stoneman will part with (and good for him.) As long as GMjr doesn't regress back to his mid 20s stats, Crede for Figgins puts us squarely back in the AL championship picture.

by Brendo on Nov 25, 2006 6:16 PM PST up reply actions

SQUARELY BACK

that hurts with the word Crede in the same sentence...

by Rev Halofan on Nov 25, 2006 6:21 PM PST up reply actions

Again...

...with the low(er lumbar) blow. Give me a single season of a healthy DMac and we can talk.

by Brendo on Nov 25, 2006 6:23 PM PST up reply actions

Dude,

I am giving you Alex Rodriguez instead.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 25, 2006 6:24 PM PST up reply actions

No, you're really not.

See above. It's not gonna happen for a price that Stoneman will pay. I'd be happy to have him, for sure, but let's concentrate on realistic options.

by Brendo on Nov 25, 2006 6:50 PM PST up reply actions

To answer Rev's question

I'd totally do A-Rod.

Crede is like Matthews -- you can find a way to like him (and I actually like him a lot), but at best he's a slightly above-average player. WE NEED STARS. To paraphrase Madeleine Albright, what's the point of having all this lovely surplus if you can't go out and do better than Joe freakin' Crede?

by mattwelch on Nov 26, 2006 3:35 PM PST up reply actions

A Rod

Who wouldn't want him? I love to have him on the Angels. I would not do him though. j/k.

GMJ step number one in a plan for continued dominance, or step number one in a plan for severe weight loss through explosive vomiting?

by hauldog on Nov 26, 2006 4:17 PM PST up reply actions

It would never happen but

A-Rod for Figgins, McPherson, Saunders and Resop

GMJ step number one in a plan for continued dominance, or step number one in a plan for severe weight loss through explosive vomiting?

by hauldog on Nov 25, 2006 8:31 PM PST up reply actions

I'd do it in a heartbeat

GMJ step number one in a plan for continued dominance, or step number one in a plan for severe weight loss through explosive vomiting?

by hauldog on Nov 25, 2006 8:28 PM PST reply actions

Crede > Figgins

works for me.

I said before the offseason, if we sign GMJ, trade Figgins for Crede we'll win the West next year and compete for it all. So in my mind, Speier would be gravy!

If Crede's back is good enough to play like he has in the past couple years (year and a 1/2 anyways), let's do it. This team could use some more 'grit'. This guy is a clutch player who plays solid defense. I likes, I likes.

by thewebb on Nov 25, 2006 9:03 PM PST reply actions

Crede vs. Matthews, Jr.

Looking at the stats, Crede had a pretty big improvement this year in HR, RBI, Avg, OPS, OBP, Slg...virtually every offensive category. His first full year, 2003, I can see where people would say he showed promise.

My question is: if the Angels were to trade Figgy for Crede, would it not be similar to Matthews in hoping Crede duplicates last years numbers? GMJ is older and more expensive, yes. Both have some history, recent or otherwise, of injury issues.

by KPBruin on Nov 25, 2006 10:07 PM PST reply actions

In a very limited sense...

The differences with Crede are numerous.

First, his numbers had largely seen a slow but steady upcreep through his career before he really came of age with a true power stroke. This is a bit different than a 32 year old suddenly "putting it all together" and expecting to stay consistent.

Second, obviously, is that he's four years younger than GMjr (and months younger than Figgins himself.) We can reasoanbly expect not only that he's fulfilling real potential as opposed to being a fluke, and will likely stay productive longer, but that he'll remain resiliant to his past injuries (like he was this year- he played 150 games, and sat a number of times just for rest, not injury.)

Third, Crede's only getting paid $2.65 million a year. GMjr is getting $10 mil. Gotta say that over and over again, apparently.

Fourth, tarding Figgins has several upsides at this moment. He's an inferior defender at either CF or 3B compared to GMjr and Crede. Finding regular playing time for him maintains our glut of infielders. He's still got a relatively good market value based on his versatility and '05 numbers, and we can hopefully make the best of this (see above.)

The more I think about it, the more I like Crede in red.

by Brendo on Nov 26, 2006 9:32 AM PST up reply actions

But...

Crede has a horrid OBP because he has an irrational fear of drawing a walk. Crede is exactly the kind of hitter the Halos don't need - low OBP guys. They have those in spades. His power is tempting, but not at the expense of all of those outs.

JD Drew was the best option to improve the club, Stoneman blew it.

Jimmuscomp

Haloville- Land of the Angels
Homepage

by jimmuscomp on Nov 26, 2006 10:42 AM PST up reply actions

Fair point, I guess

But I still think his projected RBI and power numbers would provide immediate help in the middle of the lineup.

Couldn't disagree more on Drew.

by Brendo on Nov 26, 2006 10:51 AM PST up reply actions

Let me know

How Drew works out for Boston. Terrible character guy and he is always hurt

GMJ step number one in a plan for continued dominance, or step number one in a plan for severe weight loss through explosive vomiting?

by hauldog on Nov 26, 2006 1:33 PM PST up reply actions

I thought I mentioned age and salary...

...yup, I did.

What i was asking was about the hope of a player all of a sudden breaking out on year and continuing.

No, I don't have any data or names to better illustrate my point, but to "reasonably expect" a player to continue anyone to stay injury free, especially with back issues. If that was the case, keep Figgy as a utility player or trade him for something other than a 3B so you can give DMac another try.

I'm not trying to argue, I promise. But I think you missed the question and I don't agree at all with the reasonable expectation assumption.

by KPBruin on Nov 26, 2006 2:28 PM PST up reply actions

I don't mind an argument

As long as we're arguing the same thing.

Crede's youth and years in the major league systems, coupled with his regular rise in power over the last 4 seasons suggests that this is not just a "breakout" we're dealing with. Every year he's played, he's hit more HR than before- we have more reason to think he'll be legit than any other option and (sadly) that includes Mcpherson.

Beyond that, even if Crede misses games, that means DMac gets playing time. I just don't see why Dallas gets the benefit of the doubt still as being a reliable option for 3B on opening day.

Figgins is at peak value right now. Scioscia has shown over and over again that he'll start guys who should be used sparingly (and benched otherwise) at the cost of winning games.

If the option is Figgins for Crede vs playing with who we've got, I know where I stand.

by Brendo on Nov 26, 2006 5:33 PM PST up reply actions

Career stats...

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerStats?categoryId=85021

Thats a young guys learning as he plays.

by Brendo on Nov 26, 2006 5:34 PM PST up reply actions

Crede > Figgins

Please do something good this offseason...

by gorams77 on Nov 26, 2006 7:27 PM PST up reply actions

Didn't that robot Twiki in "Buck Rogers"

always start out each sentence with "Crede Crede Crede?"

DMac has now officially used 3 out of his alloted 9 lives (for the record, Elizabeth Taylor and Keith Richards are into their 15th by now) -- I say give him another chance at 3rd!

by PieceOfAase on Nov 25, 2006 10:17 PM PST reply actions

Crede

New Comiskey is a batter's paradise. Denver East.

Joe C would come here and hit maybe 6 HR in Anaheim and 7 on the road.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 26, 2006 2:43 PM PST reply actions

He didn't seem to have any problems

Jacking it out of Angel Stadium in game 5. His 14 road homers in 0 aren't too shabby either.

At this point I think anything is better than Figgins at third.

GMJ step number one in a plan for continued dominance, or step number one in a plan for severe weight loss through explosive vomiting?

by hauldog on Nov 26, 2006 3:00 PM PST up reply actions

Crede's splits show

Home/Road tallies for HRs in 2006: 16/14

For 2003-2005: 40/33.

That's not particularly drastic in my opinion. His other numbers are virtually even.

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Nov 26, 2006 4:15 PM PST up reply actions

Don't Blame Me

I voted for Mauer.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 26, 2006 5:42 PM PST reply actions

Crede's '06 situational stats

Bases Empty: .260 avg, 18 hr, 18 rbi, .784 ops
Runners On: .315, 12 hr, 76 rbi, .884 ops
RISP: .343, 5hr, 61 rbi, .887 ops
RISP w/2 out: .351, 1hr, 22 rbi, .869 ops
and if you thought he couldn't get any more "clutch"

Bases Loaded: .364, 3 hr, 23 rbi, 1.106 ops

downside is that he stole 0 bases. he has 4 career stolen bases, stretched across four seasons. A far cry from figgins, but i don't know. Crede is clutch, he's got pop, he's a slick fielder, but in the end, he isn't the "bat" that Moreno promised, but he'd be a good addition to the team. If only someone can convince Scioscia to take GA out of LF and stick him at DH, will we have a real chance.

BTW, in 15 games with Crede batting 5th, he hit .429 with 4 HR, and 18 rbi; in 53 games batting 6th he hit .241 with 9hr, 33 rbi; batting 7th he hit .273 with 14 hr and 38 rbi. Basically he bounced around a lot in the order last year, and i have no clue where he would fit into our lineup.

What bothers me most about this trade is the LA times reporting Figgins and Santana for Crede and Garcia. Granted, freddy is only 30, but his best year was arguably in 1999 with seattle, his debut season, and he costs 9.5 mil more than Santana.

If you stuck with me through this, I commend you.

"I love this british shit!" -Lou Brown

by jtkelly86 on Nov 28, 2006 12:01 PM PST reply actions