Mike Scioscia - No Results
In September of 2004 Mike Scioscia requested that the Angels suspend Jose Guillen for insubordination. He was backed up by the General Manager and the owner.
The subsequent frenzy of praise for Mike and his patented chemistry formula The Scioscia Method (tm) overflowed in the mainstream media.
The Scioscia Method (tm) went something like this:
Ballplayers want to play in a clubhouse where dissent is not tolerated, where prima donas are exiled and where one manager ensures everyone plays for a common goal on the same page with the same expectations.
We were told that the 2004 playoff loss (due in part to Guillen's absence) was a small price to pay for what was coming: Players would want to be a part of the "Winning Atmosphere" of The Scioscia Method (tm) instead of the "WHINING Atmosphere" of so many other clubhouses in Major League Baseball. We were going to attract and keep quality players who were "All About Winning" and were the epitome of sacrificing personal glory for the chance at a ring.
Well it is 800 days after that dramatic late-season suspension and Jose Guillen is having the last laugh. Mike Scioscia has come full circle. In a panic over the possible loss of Juan Rivera, the club has done the absolute opposite of everything we were promised on the altar of the lost 2004 playoffs. They have signed a mediocre malcontent, Shea Hillenbrand, as a stopgap veteran, despite the fact that he is a clubhouse cancer and is no better statistically than at least five cheaper options in our system who tow The Scioscia Method (tm) line as the way they have learned to play baseball.
Since the Guillen excommunication, the Angels have not attracted A SINGLE prime free agent because of our clubhouse culture. We overpaid for Cabrera and Finely and Matthews, were turned down by Clement and Soriano and Aramis Ramirez - all in the days after The Scioscia Method (tm) was being hailed by the baseball beat writers as “The Winning Way.”
It was all a crock of shit then and I can admit to being hoodwinked by it and blogging favorably for it, but The Scioscia Method (tm) has now been revealed to be nothing we were ever told, sold or cajoled.
Mike and Bill are improvising without learning, and relying on aging veterans as panicky fixes. The sum of Scioscia's clubhouse leadership is an obtuse orthodoxy of veteran status and deference (think back to rookie Jered Weaver being demoted in favor of a rehabbing Bartolo Colon). We were told that Scioscia's clubhouse embodied winning at the direction of a leader, a manager, a philosophy and a determination to find what works as a team instead of sticking with what seems to have once worked and is paid based on that past performance.
In conducting themselves this way, the Angels are not especially apart from teams like the Dodgers and Yankees, teams with a loyal fanbase and a large media market - they throw money at problem areas based on what they hunch and think they know instead of developing an idea about what works and seeing it through to fruition.
The glass is half-empty. Scioscia slugged a victory chug from it when Arte gave him the blessing to 86 Guillen. The Hillenbrand signing is a glaring indicator that, two full seasons later, nobody has since bothered to ask for a refill.
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Are you crazy?
by DChalofan on Dec 27, 2006 11:37 PM PST reply actions
Umm
RAMIEZ OPTED OUT
by Rev Halofan on Dec 27, 2006 11:58 PM PST up reply actions
Geez Rev...
But Konerko did...
by Barry on Dec 28, 2006 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
Extreme
ARam did not turn us down and said we were very attractive.
Soriano was an east coast and a NL guy.
Clement? Prime? Please
Rev which prime free agents have turned us down exactly?
The winter monotony gotten to you? I think you are grabbing at straws on this one.
Although the veteran deference is a disturbing trend.
CLEMENT
by Rev Halofan on Dec 28, 2006 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, but...
I am just as frustrated as you are, but I don't think it is because of Scioscia's clubhouse that we aren't getting these guys. I believe that Soriano took the insane money and ran. If we made a comparable offer, I didn't hear about it.
Truly Rev, if you were in the GM chair, would you have given Soriano those insane $$ and years?
Clement was a high upside guy
ARam opted out for the money btw, it had nothing to do with our clubhouse. He said very complimentary things about our club also.
I think you are really reaching on this.
Agreed
I'm not fond of this signing, but the terms aren't awful either.
Scioscia does't have the patent
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
by chosen1 @ Halos Heaven on Dec 28, 2006 1:00 AM PST reply actions
At LEast
Build that bullpen!
by chosen1 @ Halos Heaven on Dec 28, 2006 1:04 AM PST up reply actions
come on now
Rivera is gone. Hillenbrand offers a proven ammount of offense that obviously we would love to get from D-Mac or Kotchman or Morales but really are not banking on. And do you blame management?
Konerko said the Angels made it extremely difficult to stay in Chicago but his wife wanted to stay to raise their kid.
A-Ram wanted to stay in Chicago as well. If money or our clubhouse was the issue, he'd be somewhere else like the dodgers.
Soriano went to the highest bidder, not the strongest clubhouse.
Agreed
by chosen1 @ Halos Heaven on Dec 28, 2006 3:25 AM PST up reply actions
That was a huge mistake to begin with
Not impatience
Don't get me wrong, I'm not losing sleep over it. But to get a 40 hr guy for that price, compared to this year, wow!
by chosen1 @ Halos Heaven on Dec 29, 2006 12:30 AM PST up reply actions
Someone has to agree...
I have a pretty strong belief that every time Soriano heard the name Los Angeles mentioned, he did a huge amount of begging and probably some favors to stay away from a trade. I think there is a Guillen buried inside him, probably not too deep down.
I was a huge fan of Guillen, even after he pulled his shit. I considered his being suspended a way of the manager telling the GM he had lost all control over him. You can't honestly fire your superstar because he has a problem with the manager and not expect other superstars to notice. Just cause he doesnt act like Vlady or Timmay doesn't mean you should dump him in the middle of a pennant race. ARod may like that method cause he wouldn't have to choke in October, but anyone else sees a manager more interested in showing he is the man, than winning.
Hillenbrand does suck, but we should have all known that he would be an Angel with as much interest as they had in him last year. Just like Soriano and Tejada will be Angels years down the road after their contracts expire, if we keep our current GM and Manager. These clowns get ideas in their heads, refuse to listen to the people that pay them, and sign worthless crap cause they don't have the balls to pull off a blockbuster trade. Watch the Yankees pick up Cabrera from Florida midseason for much less than we could offer in young kids. Vlady came in hurting. Scioscia is afraid of what would happen if he had to manage and contain a true talent that was at the top of his game. (not knocking Vlady, but he was past his prime coming in).
Loved the radio interview with Eckstein the other day about his book, when Scioscia called in. Eck had nothing bad to say about Mike, but loved Tony. Scioscia had no choice but to come off as an ass in the call, trying to save face with the token line about loving seeing a true gentleman like Eck succeeding elsewhere.
I hope DMac, Krotchman, Q, and Kendry all have monsterous years wherever they play. Especially if it is backup to Hillenbrand. Love watching our boys try to justify not using hot players.
if anything,
when free agents see conflict and confusion in the organization at the highest levels and no dollar signs to overcome the pain of the circumstances, it's no wonder they say "no". who wants to platoon for a schizo pimp GM while he plays fantasy baseball with his butt cheeks (ala planes trains and automobiles)?
i see stoneman as the antichrist, because his head is at least a meter further up his own ass than sosh. not to mention all those squandered bucks and aborted signings.
hillenbrand was a steal... i see him coming through IF utilized well.
Egg Nog Hangover
How quickly we forget that we USED to OVERBID for free agents and they still WOULDN'T come. It is great to see that we have raised the bar. Imagine if Stoneman did nothing and we went into Opening day counting on DMAC, Kotch & Morales to carry the load. These guys get to EARN their way back.
I like the move.
"has consistent MAJOR LEAGUE numbers."
they're below league average at all three positions you listed.
by pedro guerrero on Dec 28, 2006 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
I guess
by DChalofan on Dec 28, 2006 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
Rev...are you looking to stir the pot or do you..
I think that it has all come down to money, the lack of attraction playing in ANAHEIM and not a major media attention getting team like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, or Cubs. Also, we cannot get a major trade done because we do not want to part with our pitching. I just don't see how it is Scioscia.
True, the signing of Shae is totally going against the Scioscia method, but maybe his hands were tied because of the Rivera injury and the timing of it. If there is any problem perceived here by free agents, it is probably because we aren't a major market team like (pay attention to the names before the team) BOSTON Red Sox, NEW YORK Yankees, NEW YORK Mets, CHICAGO Cubs, and LOS ANGELES Dodgers.
Let's all just hope that everybody shows up to BALL and have a good time. The friggin talent is there.
07' Again, will be Heaven ! ! !
by Rex DaKine Budler on Dec 28, 2006 11:24 AM PST reply actions
QUESTION STILL UNANSWERED
We were assured that Mike Scioscia suspending Jose Guillen would make the Angels more attractive to prosective free agents.
It hasn't.
Confusion Here
OR
Did Scioscia get rid of Guillen in order to attract the best free agents we could to the Angels?
At the time of the incedent, I would think that the Angels and Scioscia were solely focused on the playoffs and season at hand.
Just my opinion....
I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time.
Adios....
by Rex DaKine Budler on Dec 28, 2006 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
More confusion
Where did you this?
Rev.
At least he is better than Bavasi, right?
by kolbotn @ Halos Heaven on Dec 28, 2006 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
Can't We All Just Get Along....
Mr. Shea hasn't even played a game in an Angels uniform and people are trading in their Angels gear for Dodger Blue ? ? ? Let's just wait and see how things play out.....
And one more quick thing. Who was quoted as saying the reason Guillen was dropped was to attract better free agents?
Personally, I cannot wait for baseball season to begin. Bring on Spring Training already.
by Rex DaKine Budler on Dec 28, 2006 3:20 PM PST reply actions
Who's Running the Team
If Mike made the call himself (without any upper level management approval) to boot Guillen off the team. And the Angels have suffered offensively since then, then who's decision is it to not get a big bat to replace Guillen???? I think that no matter how hippocritical Scioscia is for "turning the other way" when Shea "Bad Attitude" Hillebrand was signed, we cannot say that it is all on Mike because Stonedman will not trade for a bat or that no promenant free agents have signed with the Angels.
What about Artie and Bill. They both are on the same page the majority of the time. So are you saying that neither of them no shit about baseball and rely soley upon the mighty Mike Scioscia to make/veto all baseball related decisions for the Angels?
Mike is not the perfect manager, but he is definitely in the top ten currently managing.
Here is a question for all of you. Who would you want to see Mike be fired for that is not currently under contract managing or working for another team???
by Rex DaKine Budler on Dec 28, 2006 3:33 PM PST reply actions
2004
I don't spend much time thinking of what might have been in 2004. Guillen or not, Red Sox were very strong and heavily favored that year.
And don't forget how the team rallied after Guillen was suspended and made an amazing comeback just to get into the playoffs. I'm not so sure that happens without a spark.

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