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Mike Scioscia - No Results

In September of 2004 Mike Scioscia requested that the Angels suspend Jose Guillen for insubordination. He was backed up by the General Manager and the owner.

The subsequent frenzy of praise for Mike and his patented chemistry formula The Scioscia Method (tm) overflowed in the mainstream media.

The Scioscia Method (tm) went something like this:
Ballplayers want to play in a clubhouse where dissent is not tolerated, where prima donas are exiled and where one manager ensures everyone plays for a common goal on the same page with the same expectations.

We were told that the 2004 playoff loss (due in part to Guillen's absence) was a small price to pay for what was coming: Players would want to be a part of the "Winning Atmosphere" of The Scioscia Method (tm) instead of the "WHINING Atmosphere" of so many other clubhouses in Major League Baseball. We were going to attract and keep quality players who were "All About Winning" and were the epitome of sacrificing personal glory for the chance at a ring.

Well it is 800 days after that dramatic late-season suspension and Jose Guillen is having the last laugh. Mike Scioscia has come full circle. In a panic over the possible loss of Juan Rivera, the club has done the absolute opposite of everything we were promised on the altar of the lost 2004 playoffs. They have signed a mediocre malcontent, Shea Hillenbrand, as a stopgap veteran, despite the fact that he is a clubhouse cancer and is no better statistically than at least five cheaper options in our system who tow The Scioscia Method (tm) line as the way they have learned to play baseball.

Since the Guillen excommunication, the Angels have not attracted A SINGLE prime free agent because of our clubhouse culture. We overpaid for Cabrera and Finely and Matthews, were turned down by Clement and Soriano and Aramis Ramirez - all in the days after The Scioscia Method (tm) was being hailed by the baseball beat writers as “The Winning Way.”

It was all a crock of shit then and I can admit to being hoodwinked by it and blogging favorably for it, but The Scioscia Method (tm) has now been revealed to be nothing we were ever told, sold or cajoled.

Mike and Bill are improvising without learning, and relying on aging veterans as panicky fixes. The sum of Scioscia's clubhouse leadership is an obtuse orthodoxy of veteran status and deference (think back to rookie Jered Weaver being demoted in favor of a rehabbing Bartolo Colon). We were told that Scioscia's clubhouse embodied winning at the direction of a leader, a manager, a philosophy and a determination to find what works as a team instead of sticking with what seems to have once worked and is paid based on that past performance.

In conducting themselves this way, the Angels are not especially apart from teams like the Dodgers and Yankees, teams with a loyal fanbase and a large media market - they throw money at problem areas based on what they hunch and think they know instead of developing an idea about what works and seeing it through to fruition.

The glass is half-empty. Scioscia slugged a victory chug from it when Arte gave him the blessing to 86 Guillen. The Hillenbrand signing is a glaring indicator that, two full seasons later, nobody has since bothered to ask for a refill.

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Are you crazy?
How can you legitimately claim that Hillenbrand "is no better statistically than at least five cheaper options in our system"?  Hillenbrand put up the same numbers as GA last season, almost to the t.  Rivera essentially is lost for the season.  Fill out a lineup that has a 1B, 3B, LF, and DH who all out-performed Hillenbrand last season.  It's not possible.  He may not be a saint, but his statistics sadly justify a prominent spot in our lineup.

by DChalofan on Dec 27, 2006 11:37 PM PST reply actions  

Umm
Aramis Ramirez didn't turn us down.  he didn't even have the chance to.

by Neo8234 on Dec 27, 2006 11:47 PM PST reply actions  

RAMIEZ OPTED OUT
He immediately renegotiated with the Cubs for a better deal, but if MIke's clubhouse was what the media claimed it would be, don't you think he would have flown out even once to see for himself.

by Rev Halofan on Dec 27, 2006 11:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Geez Rev...
Maybe the guy truly wanted to stay a Cubbie.
Feels like the 1970's all over again. <sigh>

by Moondoggy on Dec 28, 2006 4:24 AM PST up reply actions  

But Konerko did...
But I'm assuming it wasn't because of Mike.

by Barry on Dec 28, 2006 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Extreme
"Since the Guillen excommunication, the Angels have not attracted A SINGLE prime free agent because of our clubhouse culture. We overpaid for Cabrera and Finely and Matthews, were turned down by Clement and Soriano and Aramis Ramirez - all in the days after The Scioscia Method (tm) was being hailed by the baseball beat writers as "The Winning Way.""

ARam did not turn us down and said we were very attractive.

Soriano was an east coast and a NL guy.

Clement?  Prime?   Please

Rev which prime free agents have turned us down exactly?

The winter monotony gotten to you?  I think you are grabbing at straws on this one.

Although the veteran deference is a disturbing trend.

GMJ step number one in a plan for continued dominance, or step number one in a plan for severe weight loss through explosive vomiting?

by hauldog on Dec 27, 2006 11:55 PM PST reply actions  

CLEMENT
Regardless of what he produced, he was PERCEIVED as a TOP free agent in the 2004/05 offseason and was PAID as one, he was courted by MANY and he turned down MORE money from the Angels to go to Boston ... debunking the Scioscia Clubhouse MYTH.

by Rev Halofan on Dec 28, 2006 12:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but...
He was clearly wanted to play for the Red Sox and didn't give us or anyone else any more than a cursory look (and at the time I was screaming to anyone who would listen "the guy is a .500 pitcher!!!).  Neither he nor Pavano gave us any serious consideration (Pavano is a lifelong Yankee fan and boy am I glad he is).

I am just as frustrated as you are, but I don't think it is because of Scioscia's clubhouse that we aren't getting these guys.  I believe that Soriano took the insane money and ran.  If we made a comparable offer, I didn't hear about it.

Truly Rev, if you were in the GM chair, would you have given Soriano those insane $$ and years?

Feels like the 1970's all over again. <sigh>

by Moondoggy on Dec 28, 2006 4:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Clement was a high upside guy
Prime no.  Poor mans AJ Burnett.  Terrible control nasty stuff.  He got 25/3 which is 2 mil less than what we offered him.  He is from Pittsburghd.  He is an East Coast guy.

ARam opted out for the money btw, it had nothing to do with our clubhouse.  He said very complimentary things about our club also.

I think you are really reaching on this.

GMJ step number one in a plan for continued dominance, or step number one in a plan for severe weight loss through explosive vomiting?

by hauldog on Dec 28, 2006 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed
with some leeway for Clement as suggested above, and fortunately the Angels never signed him.  Carlos Beltran?  Were the Angels ever making a serious run at him?

I'm not fond of this signing, but the terms aren't awful either.

Fire Mickey Hatcher. An entire generation of Angels offense depends upon it.

by scareduck on Dec 28, 2006 5:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Scioscia does't have the patent
the method is an obvious infringement of the "Lasorda Method". But, maybe tommy gave him permission.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

One bourbon, one scotch, and one beer

by chosen1 @ Halos Heaven on Dec 28, 2006 1:00 AM PST reply actions  

At LEast
Mike does not chew up his Starters' arms liek Tommy did - Fernando would have retired after '05 under Mike's delicate watch.

by Rev Halofan on Dec 28, 2006 1:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Build that bullpen!
One bourbon, one scotch, and one beer

by chosen1 @ Halos Heaven on Dec 28, 2006 1:04 AM PST up reply actions  

come on now
i understand the panic at signing hillenbrand but this is coming from a site that is strongly opposed to trading away any of our pitching for a bat and acknowledges that 1st and 3rd base are question marks.

Rivera is gone. Hillenbrand offers a proven ammount of offense that obviously we would love to get from D-Mac or Kotchman or Morales but really are not banking on. And do you blame management?

Konerko said the Angels made it extremely difficult to stay in Chicago but his wife wanted to stay to raise their kid.

A-Ram wanted to stay in Chicago as well. If money or our clubhouse was the issue, he'd  be somewhere else like the dodgers.

Soriano went to the highest bidder, not the strongest clubhouse.

by ihearhowie2.0 on Dec 28, 2006 2:21 AM PST reply actions  

Agreed
My only regret is that we didn't offer konerko 10 mil more (hindsight). Any overpaying controversy would have been completely lost after the last/past crazy signing period.
One bourbon, one scotch, and one beer

by chosen1 @ Halos Heaven on Dec 28, 2006 3:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Sad but true
Good point.

by DChalofan on Dec 28, 2006 6:54 AM PST up reply actions  

That was a huge mistake to begin with
I'm really getting impatient with the lack of patience being shown Casey Kotchman.  He'll be just fine; the Sox are going to regret that Konerko signing in its final years.
Fire Mickey Hatcher. An entire generation of Angels offense depends upon it.

by scareduck on Dec 28, 2006 7:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Not impatience
We could have had konerko last year and that may have been the difference (we were the best team from mid july, what might have happened with him?.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not losing sleep over it. But to get a 40 hr guy for that price, compared to this year, wow!

One bourbon, one scotch, and one beer

by chosen1 @ Halos Heaven on Dec 29, 2006 12:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Someone has to agree...
It might as well be me... Actually, I really do agree with you. And from what I remember, Ramirez knew the Angels were interested, and had to know that more money was on the table. And honestly, no one wants to stay with the Cubs, we all know this. Even Mark Grace left praying to win a ring elsewhere.
I have a pretty strong belief that every time Soriano heard the name Los Angeles mentioned, he did a huge amount of begging and probably some favors to stay away from a trade. I think there is a Guillen buried inside him, probably not too deep down.
I was a huge fan of Guillen, even after he pulled his shit. I considered his being suspended a way of the manager telling the GM he had lost all control over him. You can't honestly fire your superstar because he has a problem with the manager and not expect other superstars to notice. Just cause he doesnt act like Vlady or Timmay doesn't mean you should dump him in the middle of a pennant race. ARod may like that method cause he wouldn't have to choke in October, but anyone else sees a manager more interested in showing he is the man, than winning.
Hillenbrand does suck, but we should have all known that he would be an Angel with as much interest as they had in him last year. Just like Soriano and Tejada will be Angels years down the road after their contracts expire, if we keep our current GM and Manager. These clowns get ideas in their heads, refuse to listen to the people that pay them, and sign worthless crap cause they don't have the balls to pull off a blockbuster trade. Watch the Yankees pick up Cabrera from Florida midseason for much less than we could offer in young kids. Vlady came in hurting. Scioscia is afraid of what would happen if he had to manage and contain a true talent that was at the top of his game. (not knocking Vlady, but he was past his prime coming in).
Loved the radio interview with Eckstein the other day about his book, when Scioscia called in. Eck had nothing bad to say about Mike, but loved Tony. Scioscia had no choice but to come off as an ass in the call, trying to save face with the token line about loving seeing a true gentleman like Eck succeeding elsewhere.
I hope DMac, Krotchman, Q, and Kendry all have monsterous years wherever they play. Especially if it is backup to Hillenbrand. Love watching our boys try to justify not using hot players.

by Zookeeper on Dec 28, 2006 7:58 AM PST reply actions  

if anything,
an erratic stoneman is more likely to be a deterrent than an erratic sosh.

when free agents see conflict and confusion in the organization at the highest levels and no dollar signs to overcome the pain of the circumstances, it's no wonder they say "no". who wants to platoon for a schizo pimp GM while he plays fantasy baseball with his butt cheeks (ala planes trains and automobiles)?

i see stoneman as the antichrist, because his head is at least a meter further up his own ass than sosh. not to mention all those squandered bucks and aborted signings.

hillenbrand was a steal... i see him coming through IF utilized well.

My signature sucks.

by proletariat on Dec 28, 2006 8:47 AM PST reply actions  

Egg Nog Hangover
D+ rating?  The guy has a little issue with the Blue Jays, no problems with the Giants.. He can play 1st, 3rd and DH...Adds to the depth of the team and has consistent MAJOR LEAGUE numbers.  

How quickly we forget that we USED to OVERBID for free agents and they still WOULDN'T come.  It is great to see that we have raised the bar.  Imagine if Stoneman did nothing and we went into Opening day counting on DMAC, Kotch & Morales to carry the load.  These guys get to EARN their way back.

I like the move.

by Dfresh on Dec 28, 2006 9:14 AM PST reply actions  

"has consistent MAJOR LEAGUE numbers."
if you mean consistently pretty shitty.

they're below league average at all three positions you listed.

by pedro guerrero on Dec 28, 2006 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I guess
GA is consistently shitty too then.

by DChalofan on Dec 28, 2006 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Rev...are you looking to stir the pot or do you..
believe what you are saying?   Really, if it is true, than back it up or do some research and get some quotes from players on the Angels roster and former players as well.   If Scioscia was that big of a prick that "Free Agents" don't want to come here, than why haven't we heard from Vladdy, Bartolo, Frankie, and OC demanding to be traded ?
I think that it has all come down to money, the lack of attraction playing in ANAHEIM and not a major media attention getting team like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, or Cubs.  Also, we cannot get a major trade done because we do not want to part with our pitching.  I just don't see  how it is Scioscia.

True, the signing of Shae is totally going against the Scioscia method, but maybe his hands were tied because of the Rivera injury and the timing of it.   If there is any problem perceived here by free agents, it is probably because we aren't a major market team like (pay attention to the names before the team) BOSTON Red Sox, NEW YORK Yankees, NEW YORK Mets, CHICAGO Cubs, and LOS ANGELES Dodgers.

Let's all just hope that everybody shows up to BALL and have a good time.   The friggin talent is there.  

07' Again, will be Heaven ! ! !

"Somewhere in suckass Arizona smokin' tumblweeds"

by Rex DaKine Budler on Dec 28, 2006 11:24 AM PST reply actions  

QUESTION STILL UNANSWERED
Who came here?

We were assured that Mike Scioscia suspending Jose Guillen would make the Angels more attractive to prosective free agents.

It hasn't.

by Rev Halofan on Dec 28, 2006 1:00 PM PST reply actions  

Confusion Here
So did Scioscia get rid of Guillen because he felt he was a cancer to the locker room and team?

                  OR

Did Scioscia get rid of Guillen in order to attract the best free agents we could to the Angels?

At the time of the incedent, I would think that the Angels and Scioscia were solely focused on the playoffs and season at hand.

Just my opinion....
I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time.

Adios....

"Somewhere in suckass Arizona smokin' tumblweeds"

by Rex DaKine Budler on Dec 28, 2006 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

More confusion
Who didn't?
GMJ step number one in a plan for continued dominance, or step number one in a plan for severe weight loss through explosive vomiting?

by hauldog on Dec 28, 2006 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Where did you this?
"We were assured that Mike Scioscia suspending Jose Guillen would make the Angels more attractive to prosective free agents."
GMJ step number one in a plan for continued dominance, or step number one in a plan for severe weight loss through explosive vomiting?

by hauldog on Dec 28, 2006 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Rev.
Please do an analysis of what Stoneman has done as the Angel GM.  I dont have the time right now but I would love to see what he has brought to the table.

At least he is better than Bavasi, right?

by kolbotn @ Halos Heaven on Dec 28, 2006 2:07 PM PST up reply actions  

THANKS
You have the time to make redundant diaries but not to do deep research. Great.

by Rev Halofan on Dec 28, 2006 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Can't We All Just Get Along....
What the Fuck is going on.....
Mr. Shea hasn't even played a game in an Angels uniform and people are trading in their Angels gear for Dodger Blue ? ? ?   Let's just wait and see how things play out.....

And one more quick thing.  Who was quoted as saying the reason Guillen was dropped was to attract better free agents?

Personally, I cannot wait for baseball season to begin.   Bring on Spring Training already.

"Somewhere in suckass Arizona smokin' tumblweeds"

by Rex DaKine Budler on Dec 28, 2006 3:20 PM PST reply actions  

Who's Running the Team
After looking at that ridiculous poll on Mike Scioscia (which is set up to make it look like it's all Mike's fault), I'm curious about something.

If Mike made the call himself (without any upper level management approval) to boot Guillen off the team.  And the Angels have suffered offensively since then, then who's decision is it to not get a big bat to replace Guillen????   I  think that no matter how hippocritical Scioscia is for "turning the other way" when Shea "Bad Attitude" Hillebrand was signed, we cannot say that it is all on Mike because Stonedman will not trade for a bat or that no promenant free agents have signed with the Angels.    

What about Artie and Bill.  They both are on the same page the majority of the time.  So are you saying that neither of them no shit about baseball and rely soley upon the mighty Mike Scioscia to make/veto all baseball related decisions for the Angels?

Mike is not the perfect manager, but he is definitely in the top ten currently managing.  

Here is a question for all of you.  Who would you want to see Mike be fired for that is not currently under contract managing or working for another team???

"Somewhere in suckass Arizona smokin' tumblweeds"

by Rex DaKine Budler on Dec 28, 2006 3:33 PM PST reply actions  

2004
"We were told that the 2004 playoff loss (due in part to Guillen's absence) was a small price to pay for what was coming: Players would want to be a part of the "Winning Atmosphere" of The Scioscia Method (tm) instead of the "WHINING Atmosphere" of so many other clubhouses in Major League Baseball."

I don't spend much time thinking of what might have been in 2004.  Guillen or not, Red Sox were very strong and heavily favored that year.

And don't forget how the team rallied after Guillen was suspended and made an amazing comeback just to get into the playoffs.  I'm not so sure that happens without a spark.

by RallyMonkey5 on Dec 28, 2006 5:06 PM PST reply actions  

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