PERFECT GAMES

by AlohaHalofan on Nov 21, 2007 1:56 PM PST

I am in disagreement with a friend over the definition of a "perfect game" pitched. The arguement is whether or not it has to be 27 up 27 down, or if someone can reach on error. I cant find the answer online anywhere and nobody I ask so far seems to know. So Im resorting to you guy (and gals). I honestly dont know if Im right or wrong and my gut tells me Im wrong just by the word "perfect". But part of believes a pitcher should be granted a perfect game if he doesnt walk anyone or allow a hit. So basically my question is "is a perfect game defined by number of batters faced?" Help please..........

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Im not 100%

but, yeah I think an error kills it. Its defined as no one reaching base.

by Pwn on Nov 21, 2007 1:50 PM PST reply actions

27 up and 27 down

A perfect game is a game in where all 27 men are retired in order with no one reaching base. If anyone reaches base, it fails to be a perfect game. If anyone reaches by error or walk, it becomes just a no hitter. If some one reaches base, and is then picked off or retired on a double play, it will be noted that the pitcher faced the minimum number of batters, but it will not be a perfect game.

I hope that this explains it for you.

Pain heals, Chicks dig scars, Glory lasts Forever!

by billhune on Nov 21, 2007 1:54 PM PST reply actions

Thanks guys

by AlohaHalofan on Nov 21, 2007 1:56 PM PST reply actions

There is a great wikipedia page on this subject

More men have orbited the moon than have pitched a perfect game.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 21, 2007 2:02 PM PST reply actions

Men who have orbited the moon:

For those who are curious.

Men who have orbited the moon:

Apollo 8: Borman, Lovell, Anders
Apollo 10: Stafford, Young(1), Cernan(1)
Apollo 11: Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins
Apollo 12: Conrad, Bean, Gordon
Apollo 14: Shepard, Mitchell, Roosa
Apollo 15: Scott, Irwin, Worden
Apollo 16: Young(2), Duke, Mattingly
Apollo 17: Cernan(2), Schmitt, Evans.

Note that Young and Cernan each had 2 missions, making the total 22.

Technically Apollo 13 did not orbit the moon, they only went around without orbiting. If you count Apollo 13 (Lovell[2], Haise, and Swigert), the total goes up to 24 (as Lovell had previously orbited on Apollo 8).

Angels fan since '67

by red floyd on Nov 21, 2007 7:56 PM PST up reply actions

Moons who have played in the MLB

Wally Moon
John Blue Moon Odom
Greg Moon-Man Minton

and then there's Bill Spaceman Lee

by rbrianc on Nov 21, 2007 8:24 PM PST up reply actions

Blue Moon Odom's last MLB vicory was a no-hitter

A combined no-hitter on July 28, 1976.

He also had a no-hitter broken up with 2 out in the 9th by Davey Johnson in 1968 and threw 8 no-hitters in high school.

by rbrianc on Nov 21, 2007 8:36 PM PST up reply actions

Mike Moonman Shannon

Mike Shannon's move to third base in 1967 opened up right field for Roger Maris for St. Louis. In 1968 Shannon was # 7 in the NL MVP vote with a .266 batting average. Yes, it was the year of the pitcher.

by Yetijuice on Nov 22, 2007 9:27 AM PST up reply actions

I went to one of these!

On July 20th, 1970 the Dodgers Bill Singer no-hitted the Philadelphia Phillies. Singer recorded zero walks and 10 strikeouts. The two Phillie baserunners were Oscar Gamble on a first inning hit by pitch and Don Money on a 7th inning Singer throwing error on a bunt. Singer also had a throwing error on a pick-off attempt of Gamble in the first inning. Singer faced 29 batters and recorded the last out on a Byron Browne foul out to the catcher.

A single baserunner will spoil the perfect game. The record keepers used to count extra inning games as perfect games if the first baserunner reached base in the 10th inning or later (e.g. Pittsburgh's Harvey Haddix had a perfect game through 12 innings against the Braves in Milwaukee before losing in the 13th inning). Those perfect games were rescinded during the 2YK house cleaning. Part of the logic of that decision was a pitcher NOT getting credit for a shutout if the game went into extra innings scoreless and then the starter gave up a run or was replaced. The record keepers wanted to be consistent. Personally if I went to a game in which the starting pitcher went into extra innings with a no-hitter or perfect game before allowing a hit or a baserunner I would say I saw a no-hitter and/or perfect game. I keep score on my own scorecard!

by Yetijuice on Nov 21, 2007 2:33 PM PST reply actions

Ask Jerry Reuss

He can tell ya how Bill Russell threw one away in the 1st inning one night at Candlestick costing him a perfect-o- game

by Angel Aviator on Nov 21, 2007 2:50 PM PST reply actions

irony

the baserunner was erased in a DP so Reuss faced the minimum.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 21, 2007 3:31 PM PST up reply actions

Depends...

...on when you ask. Until a few years ago, Harvey Haddix and another guy were considered to have thrown perfect games. Haddix threw >9 perfect inning before losing the game in the 12th (in odd circumstances I believe). The other guy relieved Babe Ruth after Ruth was ejected for arguing the walk given to the only batter he faced, after after which he (the other guy) picked of the baserunner then put down the remaining 26 in a row.

Later, MLB said screw you, you did not earn a perfect game afterall. Now, MLB follows the strictest possible definition. OTOH, if a SP is relieved after throwing two pitches by a reliever who retires that batter and the next 26, does he get perfect game?

Eat My Angel Dust.

by Angels95 on Nov 21, 2007 2:57 PM PST reply actions

Excellent hypothetical question!

Where is the baserunner or the out recorded by the first pitcher? The second pitcher would be credited with a perfect game as well as a complete game and a shutout provided his team scored a run. The second pitcher would meet the standard of 27 up and 27 down with nary a baserunner. In the Babe Ruth as starter case the losing team did have a baserunner so 26 up and 27 down does not qualify as a perfect game. It deserves an honorable mention and I regret not having the name of that pitcher at the tip of my tongue.

by Yetijuice on Nov 22, 2007 9:41 AM PST up reply actions

up and down

No errors or nothing.

They changed the no hitter rule to be it had to be a 9 inning no hit, no run game that the pitcher won.

So the Harvey Haddix game does not qualify anymore, but everyone always mentions it anyway in any perfect game discussion.

Also, Ernie Shore relieved Babe Ruth after he was ejected for arguing after the first guy walked. That dude was either picked off or caught stealing, so Ernie Shore retired 27 in a row with no one reaching. They call that one a pefect game, but I can see how maybe they shouldn't.

by elricsi on Nov 21, 2007 3:04 PM PST reply actions

Andy Hawkins

He threw a no hitter and lost to the CWS in 1990 only to have things changed in 1991 when the Committee for Statistical Accuracy, appointed by Commissioner Fay Vincent, changed the definition of a no-hitter to require that a pitcher throw at least nine full innings and a complete game.
Since Hawkins played for the visiting team in the game in question, the White Sox never batted in the ninth inning, Hawkins lost the credit for a no-hitter.

by Angel Aviator on Nov 21, 2007 3:59 PM PST reply actions

No entiendo

So the sox scored on an unearned run in the bottom of the 8th? Or did I miss something?

by AlohaHalofan on Nov 21, 2007 6:56 PM PST up reply actions

The Eighth

With 2 outs Sammy Sosa reached on a throwing error by Yankees third baseman Mike Blowers. Hawkins then walked the next two batters. That brought up Robin Ventura, who lofted a fly ball to left field. The blustery winds buffeted the ball, and rookie Jim Leyritz, normally a third baseman, booted it, allowing all three baserunners to score. The next batter, Ivan Calderón, hit a fly ball to right field, which was lost in the sun and dropped by Jesse Barfield. The final count for the inning: four runs, no hits, three errors. The Yankees, who had not scored all game, were unable to score in the 9th inning, giving Hawkins the loss

by Angel Aviator on Nov 22, 2007 9:47 AM PST up reply actions

I pitched a perfect game!

...In 8th grade for my school softball team! It helped that the other team wasn't very good... ;)

No walks, no hits, no errors (I got most of my outs by way of K's.) No one got on base. Believe it or not, I didn't realize it until AFTER the game. But, I guess if I had thought about it, I would have jinxed it.

by HawaiiHaloFan35 on Nov 21, 2007 5:05 PM PST reply actions