Analysis: Torii Hunter is Angels' Vlad Guerrero Protector

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2007 2:14 AM PST in Angels News

This is not about protecting Vladimir Guerreor and his bat in the lineup. This is about allowing Vlad to end the wear and tear of being a right fielder and rest himself all season as Designated Hitter, to concentrate on what he does best: batting.

Basically, Arte Moreno is a billionaire who sells out more than half of the season at home and he just raised my seat prices, so the large sum of money paid to Torii Hunter is of no import in the discussion. The dollar is sinking and inflation is rising and $18 million might look like $98 million in the 5th year of this deal.

Bottom Line: The signing of Torii Hunter is good for the Angels on many accounts.

DEFENSE:
Hunter is a competent fielder - some techie measurements say he is not as great as his reputation, but nobody from the fanboys to the RangeFactor accountants disputes that he is a good centerfielder.

OFFENSE:
Lots of doubles, 28 HR would have led the 2007 Angels. Extreme durability should be augmented by Anaheim's natural grass. Hunter Batted 5th/6th most of the time for the Anemic twins and slugged .505 on a team with a collective .391 SLG%.

MOST IMPORTANT:
Our most important player is Vlad, so the question has to be asked: what does this mean for Vlad (and thus the Angels). Well, what DOES this mean for Vlad and the Angels? Vlad is slowly falling apart. He wears out by season's end. As great as he is, one can notice a slow decline and imagine it speeding up. While his career numbers compare well with Willie Mays, they also have similarities to Juan Gonzalez - and the name "Juan Gone" means a lot more now than it did at the turn of the century.

If we are to re-sign Vlad two offseasons from now, if there is a chance he will retire as an Angel after, say, the 2015 season (just shy of his 40th birthday), the quicker he becomes the full-time Designated Hitter, the better for him, for the team, and for us the fans. An outfield of Garret, Torri and Gary is a damn good outfield. We can save Vlad's knees and challenge Garret to stay healthy as a fielder in order to earn his 2009 option.

If Vlad is full-time DH, does the lack of wear and tear add to his (already superhuman) numbers? If all this Torii Hunter signing does is simply slow Vlad's perceptible decline from being a steeper cascade down, than the Torii Hunter contract functions as an insurance policy for our best player to remain at his optimum offensive production.

FISCAL SYNERGY
Basically, the Angels overpay in the outfield for two more seasons (GA's club option is thru '09 and Matthews' no trade clause runs thru then as well) BUT they underpay in the infield. Casey Kotchman is the first of the current/projected infielders to be arbitration eligible - and guess when - yep, after the 2009 season!

The infield underpayment is severe:
Kotchman/Morales at 1B, Kendrick at 2B, Brandon Wood at 3B, Aybar/Izturis at SS, Napoli/Mathis at C all at league minimum for two more seasons and most at league minimum for three or more seasons.

Chemistry:
For you young chemists, Hunter has a PhD in Clubhouse Chemistry.

Biggest Negatives:
Does Hunter have a no-trade clause, too? If not then the only problem is the loss of a First-round Pick, but again, that saves us signing bonus money and the difference between the 26th pick and the 100th pick is usually not as big as the difference between the 5th pick and the 26th.

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Comments

So there will still be a trade right?

Who is off the 40 man Roster?

We could be looking at
Matthews RF
Kendrick 2B
Guerrero DH
Hunter CF
McPherson/Wood 3B
Rivera LF
Morales/Kotch 1B
Napoli C
Aybar/Izzy SS

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Nov 22, 2007 2:14 AM PST reply actions

R I V E R A ??

Talk about Juan Gone...

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2007 2:18 AM PST up reply actions

Mabye he will start in AAA

and once Anderson breaks down after APRIL he will be up to stay in LF.

What ever Anderson in LF. I guess I can live with that for ONE more season.

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Nov 22, 2007 2:33 AM PST up reply actions

But can you live with Anderson

for two more years or more? It won't take much of a season for Anderson to become an option deal. Unless he's just terrible next season, he'll be back for the following season too.

True, the Angels hold the option for 2009, but the buyout (opting out of the contract) will cost them $3 million. They can pay GA $3M and send him away or they can bring him back for what will (assuming he has any kind of offensive production in 2008) seem like a bargain (2009 salary minus $3M).

If GA posts a 20/80 season in 2008 (and, let's face it, it's not THAT unrealistic), a lot of Angel fans (all the GA haters) will be squirming. Were he to post two more adequate seasons, he'd be well over 2,500 hits, 500 doubles, and 1,400 rbi. Suddenly, there might be sentimental call (and a cheap contract) to see how far he can take it. You might be stuck with him more than you previously realized.

Why Isn't 4 On The Wall?

by Retire4 on Nov 22, 2007 2:17 PM PST up reply actions

you posted this there and here and

probably somewhere else... the answer is SO WHAT???

Better to be stuck with Garret Anderson than a lot of sonzabitches who would poison the team's young players, et cetera. Big whoop, we overpay for a franchise icon, oh damn it all to hell. He is on the decline, oh no yu mean staying thirty is not a permanent condition?

Anderson is a long way from being Vald, but he is also a lng way form being mike HAmpton and Kevin Brown ... so DEAL WITH IT. Management likes Garret.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2007 2:30 PM PST up reply actions

I wasn't aware that I posted that

anywhere else. Do you have me confused with someone else? I've posted alot today, but only here about this (unless there was some kind of accident).

I'm actually one of GA's biggest fans. I'm not knocking it all. I hope he does stay with the Angels for the rest of his career.

My point, actually (though obviously poorly conveyed) was that I'm looking forward to GA earning his option (and maybe more) because I like the idea of GA (one of my favorite all-time Angels) rankling all of the folks that continually knock him.

It will make for a very interesting debate here and elsewhere during 2008, especially if GA posts any kind of offense in.

Seriously, though, I don't think I posted this elsewhere; I posted it here specifically because acuda27 is particuarly guilty of hating on GA (as he was doing, implicitly, in the above thread).

But I'm also unintentionally agitating the Rev. Sorry.

Why Isn't 4 On The Wall?

by Retire4 on Nov 22, 2007 3:03 PM PST up reply actions

Big Apology

Sorry - I must have read the comments in this thread three or four times and it was still tagged as a new comment and assumed I had read it elsewhere as well.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2007 9:47 PM PST up reply actions

A search of comments

will clearly illustrate that I'm a GA fan. I'm not sure how you inferred that I'm knocking GA. I'm knocking acuda27 a bit but certainly not GA.

Why Isn't 4 On The Wall?

by Retire4 on Nov 22, 2007 3:06 PM PST up reply actions

I guess I'm a hater...

but I don't see how anybody can believe that the Angels exercising GA's option for 09 @ $14M is a good idea. The caveat being right now. I know we all love the long term guys and the flashy youngsters with potential but let's be honest, GA hasn't had a strong statistical season since 2003. Yes, he's been injured at times and he also had a strong second half. That could be nothing more than
an aberration on his continued decline.

It would appear to me that he has to put up a much stronger season than 20/85 to warrant a $14M extension being exercised. You'd be much better off paying the buyout and searching for a cheaper and/or stronger replacement.

by onthevirg on Nov 22, 2007 5:27 PM PST up reply actions

I agree with this post

But it is not the worst thing int he world to throw a hometown bone to a franchise icon.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2007 9:48 PM PST up reply actions

40 man

Didn't we have an open spot because of the Madrigal thing?

by akathelorax @ Halos Heaven on Nov 22, 2007 8:49 AM PST up reply actions

Was thinking

The Marlins want four players, all of which under three years of MLB service, two of which who would start/make the rotation starting day.

The following players qualify. The players who would most likely start or make the rotation right away are marked in *'s

Santana *
Saunders *
Kendrick *(if they move Uggla)
Kotchman *
Napoli *
Willits *
Weaver *
Mathis *
Aybar
Wood
Adenhart
Moseley
Bootcheck
Morales

With any trade most likely demanding Wood, possibly Adenhart the Fish still need two other starting quality players.

Santana, Willits, Adenhart, Wood is most likely gonna get this done, in my opinion. Although this has been posted a few trillion times, I wanted to put this in list form in order to clarify what exactly we are working with.

Would any of you be even close to satisfied with trading Weaver? What if it gets Adenhart out of the package? Or Wood?

by Pwn on Nov 22, 2007 2:57 AM PST reply actions

If not Kendrick, Mathis is a must

I would assume.

Picture yourself in Florida's position and Cabrera becomes like Vlad is to us:
Vlad is 24 and you cannot afford him - what can you get for him.

Then and only then does Santana, Adenhardt, Mathis and Kendrick make sense. Boom.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2007 3:00 AM PST up reply actions

Just read this

on an article buried on MLB.com

"Angels: According to FOXSports, the Angels have offered Florida second baseman Howard Kendrick, right-hander Ervin Santana, right-handed reliever Chris Bootcheck and another player -- possibly pitcher Nick Adenhart -- for Cabrera. Sources, however, say the Angels did not offer that combination of names -- and the Marlins probably would not want Santana, who is only a year away from arbitration and 7-16 with a 7.06 ERA on the road the past two seasons."

So that might mean Weaver would be the essential piece.

Weaver, Adenhart, Wood would be quite steep, but we may have a lineup with two future hall of famers batting next to each other.

by Pwn on Nov 22, 2007 3:05 AM PST up reply actions

And gaping holes in the pitching staff

No thanks.

Hoping Ervin Santana turns it around in Salt Lake. Go, Ervin!

by scareduck on Nov 22, 2007 5:08 AM PST up reply actions

I posted this on Nov 10

Maybe I am crazy, but would it be an the Angels interest to sign Torri Hunter, let Matthews play a corner spot, letting Vlad and GA alternate at DH? It would vastly improve the outfield defense, give the offense some production and fill a hole after GA's contract is up. Rivera could be used to trade for some pitching. Does this make any sense to anyone but me?

Was I the only one who saw this comming. I remember a year ago speculating that GMJ would be signed by the Angels and being lambasted on this site. I don't know if either signing was a good idea, but I picked both of them and everyone on this site thought I was crazy. Crazy like a fox I guess.

by I am a fair weather fan so the halos better win on Nov 22, 2007 3:00 AM PST reply actions

Crazy like a GM

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2007 3:01 AM PST up reply actions

so is Miggy C next

oh great one? :)

by SCHalo on Nov 22, 2007 12:18 PM PST up reply actions

My guess is no. I think that the asking price in

the long run will be too high. I would expect Tejada to be an Angel next year.

by I am a fair weather fan so the halos better win on Nov 24, 2007 3:31 PM PST up reply actions

Could Willits end up a Padre?

Padres GM, Kevin Towers, says finding outfield players is his #1 priority. From the Padres.com website:

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071106&content_id=2293997&vkey=news_sd &fext=.jsp&c_id=sd

The article features a photo of Willits and the writer remarks the Padres like the fact that Reggie can bat lead-off and play three defensive positions. But who or what would we get in return for Willits?

"We're still in the information-gathering process," Reagins said.

by 44FAN on Nov 22, 2007 3:00 AM PST reply actions

Maybe a three-way rade:

Willits and Rivera to SD for a pitcher who is bundled up with Santana and Mathis for M-Cab.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2007 3:02 AM PST up reply actions

That would be SWEET......

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Nov 22, 2007 3:20 AM PST up reply actions

i was just thinking

the same thing. padres offense would get a major jolt. theyre already in need of a corner outfielder and center fielder as well.

maybe a strong relief pitcher?

either way, judging from toriis agents comments about how we wanted to get the deal done in a hurry, SOMETHING is in the works and judging from reagins' first two moves, im assuming that its something we have not even considered yet. we'll probably end up with david wright somehow haha ( not really)

by ihearhowie2.0 on Nov 22, 2007 7:05 AM PST up reply actions

Unless that pitcher

Is Jake Peavy. Then we keep him.

I kid, I kid!

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 22, 2007 7:38 AM PST up reply actions

Maybe Chris Young?

He's had 3 years and 5 games of service and is 28 years old.

by SactoFan on Nov 22, 2007 5:22 PM PST up reply actions

Another probable reason for this signing:

If there is one thing lacking in the Angels' farm system right now, it is a power hitter in the outfield. Terry Evans may be a contributor, but he has the same problem Brandon Wood does--he whiffs to much and walks too infrequently.

Reagins is familiar with the farm system so he must know this, and saw signing Hunter as an opportunity to shore up the outfield for the next few years.

The Hunt for a Red October ...and please keep telling Clutch to chill!

by cardinalwraith on Nov 22, 2007 5:19 AM PST reply actions

Outfield

Vlad is wearing down, needs to DH more. GA has been great, and had a fine second half, but there's only so much gas left in that tank. GM Jr. has the HGH cloud, who knows how the league office handles that. I think outfield was a bigger neede than a lot of us wanted to admit. We just saw a GREATER need and focused there. I LOVE what they are doing.

by ghostofwallyjoyner on Nov 22, 2007 6:10 AM PST up reply actions

Vlad's knees are bad from playing on the concrete

So we sign another aging outfielder who played on the concrete his whole career so Vlad can DH. What happens when Torii's knees go out in 2 years?

by LosAngel on Nov 22, 2007 12:48 PM PST up reply actions

Morales to Marlins?

Think about it: Kendry Morales is under contract through 2010 as part of the 6-year deal he negotiated with the Angels. He is a switch-hitter with the ability to fill in the OF or 1B.

Therefore, he wouldn't be a wild card at arbitration time like Santana would be, and his payroll needs are predictable for three more seasons.

Of highest importance, though, is that he is a Cuban exile. Just as with Livan Hernandez, Morales could flourish with the chance to play every day and the Marlins would have a poster boy to market locally to the Cuban exiles in the Miami area.

Morales in a deal for Cabrera would add a high-profile Latin player to the Marlins roster and maybe save the Angels giving up from one of their other prospects. The Marlins need a catcher (Mathis) and are apparently insisting on Kendrick, but Saunders/Santana could round out the package. The Marlins want players who are (A) cheap and (B) MLB-ready, and Adenhart and Wood are still a couple years away.

by HaloNation on Nov 22, 2007 6:18 AM PST reply actions

Interesting idea

by jerryhattrick on Nov 22, 2007 8:17 AM PST up reply actions

IF...

Morales is put in the deal I would want him to save HK or Adenhart from being put in the deal not saunders or santana

legen... wait for it... dary

by thebigA on Nov 22, 2007 9:42 AM PST up reply actions

what a week

This move, like the Garland move, totally caught me off guard. I think that there will be one more big trade and a couple of more minor ones. But I'm starting to wonder if the Miggy Cabrera rumors have any substance since Garland and Hunter seemed to come out of nowhere. Reagins is the anti-Stoneman.
Hunter helps a lot and now we have an even bigger outfield log-jam. I like the idea of GA, Hunter and GMJ in the outfield with Vlad as dh. This leaves Juan Riveria and Reggie Willits out of the picture. I would like to see us strengthen our middle relief by trading some of the excess outfielders.

by tanana40 on Nov 22, 2007 7:28 AM PST reply actions

if this is our protection for Vlad

It is not good. We still need a left side of the infield. The good news is we haven't given up a prospect yet. If we don't make another move, wouldn't we have been better with Cabrera instead of Garland this year????

I'm holding out hope that we're not done.

Hunter is what he is. He has put up a .270-.280 batting average with a .330 or so OBP in his last 4 prime years. He has a real nice arm, but his other defensive skills aren't what they once were. He plays a very agressive style so his age 32 may translate to being a little older.

I live in ND, so it is basically Twins country up here and it was pretty much unanimous that the one 'star' the Twins could live without is Hunter. Now we have him!

If Hunter bats 5th or 6th, that is fine and he is more of a true CF than Matthews and doesn't have the drug cloud that we know of. If this is Vlad's protection, this is gross. Either way, 5 years and 90 million for Hunter...YIKES!

by thewebb on Nov 22, 2007 8:43 AM PST reply actions

The biggest Joke of all is

that almost (and I said "ALMOST" - [kudos to 'I am a fairweather...'] everyone here said CF was not an option for a trade or FA because of Gary Matthews Juicer and his $$$ contract!

Welcome Tony Reagins!......and standby for more surprises!

by SocalAngelFaninOC on Nov 22, 2007 8:45 AM PST reply actions

I'm officially on the M. Cabrera bandwagon

Let's go get him. Try and not trade Kendrick in the deal, but package those other f'ers up and go get him.

It's time to contend with the big boys. I can't bear to continue to be the Red Sux whipping boys.

He's on the rise as opposed to Tejada's decline. He's at a position of need, younger than young, major power with a high average. He's the closest thing to a young Pujols out there.

by thewebb on Nov 22, 2007 8:55 AM PST reply actions

It's Thankgiving, be thankful

The Angels are going for it. Be thankful for an owner willing to open the wallet, a new, aggressive GM, and a top 3 manager who is strong enough to stand up for what he wants. Keep a healthy perspective; there are a couple of dozen teams whos fans would be giddy over anything close to this offseason, and there's more to come.

by ghostofwallyjoyner on Nov 22, 2007 9:09 AM PST reply actions

We keep praising Reagans...

but isn't Stoneman still involved as an advisor? Why do we keep acting like Stoneman has had no input in this? Maybe his advising has a lot to do with this and he is more daring now that he is not the man who will be blamed if all goes awry.

Nolan Ryan for president!

by Dodger Hater on Nov 22, 2007 1:44 PM PST up reply actions

You're right!

Stoneman still has his hand in all of this. I contend that his resignation was partially manipulative in order to facilitate some movement without having his fingerprints on it while inviting interaction from other GM's.

by wumbug on Nov 22, 2007 5:46 PM PST up reply actions

A lineup of...

Figgins
HK
Vlad
M Cab
Hunter
Anderson
Kotch
Napoli
GMJ

would be pretty awesome

legen... wait for it... dary

by thebigA on Nov 22, 2007 9:50 AM PST reply actions

Don't think Chone will start at SS

And having 4 right-handed power hitters in a row is a recipe for setting the single-season GIDP record. And stacking your lefties is a invitation for LOOGys.

I'm a fan of using Kotchman like Boston uses Youkilis. So, something like this:

SS Izzy
1B Krotch
DH Vlad
3B MigCab
LF G.A.
CF Hunter
2B Kendrick
RF GMJ
C Napoli

by mattwelch on Nov 22, 2007 9:55 AM PST up reply actions

Kotch

getting Kotchman more ABS would actually be smart because like Youk he does draw walks and doesn't strikeout much. And Kotch also has enough power to sit on a fastball hit it out when he knows its coming hitting behind Vlad. But since its a smart idea it will never happen.

by MH25 on Nov 22, 2007 10:13 AM PST up reply actions

Yep

Until Kotch shows a more consistent power stroke, he is the perfect 2 hitter (minus his speed). He has great gap power and is the only guy besides Naps (and Willits, who I am assuming will not be in the lineup) that can draw a walk.

Wherever Red Sox Nation is, I just wish Bush would invade it. President: Miggy C Man-Crush Club

by agermer on Nov 22, 2007 10:37 AM PST up reply actions

some variation

of that lineup would kick ass, thats all I am saying.

Although if Figgins is hitting like last season I can't see Izzy starting in front of him.

legen... wait for it... dary

by thebigA on Nov 22, 2007 10:19 AM PST up reply actions

Exactly

That lineup is exactly how I would do it except I would have Figgins instead of Maicer. Don't you think that's how Scioscia would do it too? At least in regards to SS?

Wherever Red Sox Nation is, I just wish Bush would invade it. President: Miggy C Man-Crush Club

by agermer on Nov 22, 2007 10:38 AM PST up reply actions

Horrible Signing.

Let me start by saying the positives.

Hunter is an outstanding person by all accounts and he does have some pop. He plays a plus centerfield.

Now the negatives.

I was goign to write a really long essay on how although Hunter has decent pop, he is really not all that good of a hitter. His OBP is traditionally very low and he doesn't steal bases at a great clip although I'm sure he fits right in with the Angels style of baserunning. He's on the WRONG side of 30.

But instead of going on and on about stuff like that like I want to I will sum up his offensive prowess with one statement.

MAICER IZTURIS WAS A BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYER than Hunter after the ASB last year. He topped him in OPS by like 30 something points, stole bases at a much better clip. Are we going to be giving Izturis close to 18 million a year? I sure hope not. While some people have said they want to go buy season tickets because of this move, to me this move makes me want to see far less games because this move just demonstrates that the Angels don't get it, and the person they have in control just got there so isn't likely to move on in the near future.

by MH25 on Nov 22, 2007 9:59 AM PST reply actions

Next Trade

Living in Minnesota, my favorite player to watch at the Metrodome was Torii Hunter. It will be ironic that Torii will still be playing on opening day in the Metrodome except for the Angels. This does make the Angels a better team, but he is not quite the big bat that Cabrera or A-Rod would have been. I would not be surprised if Reagins next move is to trade our surplus SP and an outfielder for Adrian Beltre (even if Seattle is an in-division rival)!

by AngelsFanInMinnesota on Nov 22, 2007 10:20 AM PST reply actions

That idea

Is a good one. I'd be down for that. Beltre is an outstanding defender, a decent hitter, and most importantly, we wouldn't have to give up the farm to get him.

My only issue with all these moves is that if we want to win the W.S., we need to be better than the Red Sox. I'm not sure that would make us better than the Sox. If we aren't thinking like that, and that is not what we accomplish this offseason, than I consider it a failure.

It was painfully obvious all last year that we were not better than the Sox, and despite what some people on here believe, the playoffs are not a crapshoot. The Red Sox kicked our ass plain and simple, we did not stand a chance. No crapshoot there, the Red Sox own us. As the team stands now, I don't see that changing unless Manny and Papi get seriously injured next year.

by LosAngel on Nov 22, 2007 1:14 PM PST up reply actions

This team already is much better

than it was at the end of the season. Adding a 3B with power would only make it more capable of winning the World Series. As long as Boston has a 1-5 of Ellsbury, Youkilis, Papi, Manny, and Lowell, we won't be able to do anything to guarantee that we have a better team.

by DChalofan on Nov 23, 2007 10:28 AM PST up reply actions

I still want MCab!

I realize that Hunter is a good offensive presence with some power, but I think the Angels need a real masher, someone who will make pitchers (and managers) think twice (or three times) before they walk Vladdy.

In other words I want a young Manny, namely MCab. Sure we might have to give up HK47, whom I love, but his upside is not even equal to MCab's present, and the following lineup is unbelievable:

Figgy, 2B
Sarge, Jr., RF/LF
Vladdy, DH/RF
MCab, 3B
GA, LF/DH
Torii, CF
Kotch, 1B
Naps, C
Izzy/Aybar, SS

This lineup rakes! Before anyone complains about the infield defense, 1) Izzy/Aybar are pretty good shortstops, 2) Figgy is a natural 2Bman and would do OK if allowed to stay at one position all year, 3) we have a GG 1Bman to pick bad throws, and 4) if you score enough runs, you can overcome a few defensive mishaps.

Best of all, we have the pitching/outfield depth to get it done. Some combination of HK47, Willits, Mathis, Santana/Saunders, Bootcheck (not all of them, of course), should get it done. If we get Uggla back, we could even go with:

Figgy, SS
Sarge, Jr., RF/LF
Vladdy, DH/RF
MCab, 3B
GA, LF/DH
Torii, CF
Uggla, 2B
Kotch, 1B
Naps, C

Either way, this is why we have been stockpiling talent, and now is the time to turn all that potential into a reality. We have to stop imagining that all these young guys/prospects are going to reach their ceiling and realize that MCab is someone whose today is already spectacular: a once-in-ten years type opportunity.

Don't stop now Tony: go get MCab!

Vladdy + MCab > Manny + Big Papi

by halofan91 on Nov 22, 2007 10:28 AM PST reply actions

what a surprise and shock

this move really has me longin for stoneman back

a bad and costly signing - wait till year 3 to 5 -see how the yankess like johnny damen now!

one really thought we had to go out in our off-season moves after the cabera trade - i could see some reason behing that

but this one - we could have a half dozen other ideas to get more time out of the outfield for vlad and at bats at DH

PLEASE PLEASE NO HOWIE IN ANY DEAL - someone needs to stop this guy

by nh angel fan on Nov 22, 2007 10:33 AM PST reply actions

mixed reviews

The feedback on this week is all over the place. Some see Hunter as a great move, others are more like you. I hope it all of this is part of a larger puzzle that we yet don't quite see.

by tanana40 on Nov 22, 2007 11:26 AM PST up reply actions

It's like a guy stumbling out of the desert

...there's nothing like a long glass of cold water.

We've been deprived of this sort of off-season hi-jinx for a few years - or maybe it's just that we've endured a lot rub-and-tug without the satisfaction of the money shot - and I think that the sense of release has left a few people a bit giddy, whilst others have maintained a detached and cynical rationalism.

While I'm sure the cold facts will be sure to present themselves over the coming years (for better or for worse), you can't help feeling that this is currently, especially with the prospect of more wheeling and dealing to come, off-season entertainment at it's best. Whether or not we reap what we're currently sowing down the line, well, that's for worrying about another day.

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 22, 2007 11:52 AM PST up reply actions

18 million/year...

...for Torii Hunter.

Welcome to the next level....Yankees, Red Sox, Angels.

LA Angels might take the 2nd spot from the Sox this year, figuring Vlad will not be too happy he is being underpaid by $5 mill a year, the Sox clearing $25 million and the Garland $3 million upgrade + $18 million to Hunter.

I have no idea why the Angels would over pay for Hunter, but if you guys like it, congrats.

by SoxAcumen on Nov 22, 2007 11:24 AM PST reply actions

overpaying

relative to Boston and New Yahk, we are underpaying...

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2007 12:00 PM PST up reply actions

relative to what?

J.D. Drew's deal?

Hey, if you guys think Torii Hunter helps out, then who am I to complain. Just a couple of thoughts though...wouldnt the Angels been better off just signing Carlos Lee last year?

Well hopefully you guys move some talent and get Miggy or Santana, if not I have no idea how adding Torii Hunter for at least $5million over the market value gets you to the ALCS.

BTW, I love this deal as a Sox fan, you guys just made Coco Crisp all that more attractive to other teams in need of a CF.

by SoxAcumen on Nov 22, 2007 12:38 PM PST up reply actions

HUH WHUH?

Carlos Lee = King of bad chemistry - never a consideration for Scioscia's clubhouse.

The Crud Sox are stuck with Crisp becuase the gun to Theo's head is asking for Ellsbury in every trade.

And using terms like "Market Value" is quaint when a starving Joakland fan is using them, but a Crud Sox fan parroting that term is like a resaurant review from a fat guy.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2007 12:49 PM PST up reply actions

Carlos Lee

11.5 Million a year for .303avg. 32 HRs and 119 RBIs v. Torii Hunter .287 28 HRs and 107 RBIs for 18 million. You guys wanted A-Rod. Is there anyone who can destroy a franchise faster than A-Rod? You guys should of signed Carlos Lee.

All the love for Boston aside, I mean seriously, you do not need to hide your true feelings for the Sox any longer, but 5/90 million AND your 1st round pick for Torii Hunter is possibly the worst deal outside of that Mike Hampton Colorado gem, especially when you have a CF already.

Coco will be dealt, Ellsbury is the biggest economic cash cow the Sox have had since Babe Ruth. I am sure Ellsbury will never be traded.

by SoxAcumen on Nov 22, 2007 1:41 PM PST up reply actions

Wow

A young man who is arrogant about his hemmorhoids is nobody I can debate.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 22, 2007 1:55 PM PST up reply actions

Your team values defense

Why don't you? Carlos Lee is an abortion in the field.

Um.........

by hauldog on Nov 22, 2007 2:16 PM PST up reply actions

Market Value....

If your MLB franchise is out spent by your town's NFL or NBA franchises you should sell your team IMMEDIATELY. Even the Clippers and the AZ Cards, with two of the worst owners in sports, pay over 70 million for salaries.

Torii Hunter is not worth 18 Million a year, you know it, I know it, and everyone on the planet knows it.

I am curious to see what Vladdy's reaction will be.

by SoxAcumen on Nov 22, 2007 1:48 PM PST up reply actions

Vlad won't care

He signed his deal. The market changes.

Um.........

by hauldog on Nov 22, 2007 2:15 PM PST up reply actions

JD Drew

Is the worst contract in baseball. Save your self serving propoganda for the rest of the Chowds.

Carlos Lee is a fat sack of shit. Nice suggestion.

Um.........

by hauldog on Nov 22, 2007 12:56 PM PST up reply actions

You are incorrect..

...the worst contract in baseball (by far) is that of one Mike Hampton. Nothing else comes close, save for Zito perhaps.

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Nov 22, 2007 1:26 PM PST up reply actions

Was

Inflation and time have changed that.

Historically speaking I would agree with you. Currently no.

Drew is a platoon player with Vlad's contract.

Um.........

by hauldog on Nov 22, 2007 1:29 PM PST up reply actions

WAS???

How have inflation and time changed a damn thing? If you have a guy making $15-$16 million per year for two years where he never even throws a pitch, how is that somehow better than before???

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Nov 22, 2007 9:01 PM PST up reply actions

Historically I agreed with you

From November 2007 I don't. Pretty simple if you read what I wrote.

Dayn is that you?

Um.........

by hauldog on Nov 22, 2007 11:44 PM PST up reply actions

to quote ron bergundy

go fuck yourself, boston (or chicago)

by Ty Webb on Nov 22, 2007 12:23 PM PST up reply actions

Oakland, Seattle and Texas

fans must be pretty nervous right now. The angels are in the middle of building a powerhouse.

legen... wait for it... dary

by thebigA on Nov 22, 2007 12:20 PM PST reply actions

GMJ to the twins

according to joe christensen's blog

by bbasher on Nov 22, 2007 12:36 PM PST reply actions

Joe...

needs to read the fine print...which details GMJ's no-trade clause

by Ty Webb on Nov 22, 2007 7:33 PM PST up reply actions

With all the OF

speculation. We still have Haynes and Evans, who I haven't seen mentioned here in a while.

Stay on the damn bag!!

by higdog on Nov 22, 2007 1:09 PM PST reply actions

LOL

Someone on MLBTR.com just coined this gem:

The Los Angeles Yankees of Anaheim,

Classic, he was referring to the Angels ability to keep overpaying for players each year and not winning.

Funny stuff.

by SoxAcumen on Nov 22, 2007 1:54 PM PST reply actions

Like you guys signed J.D. Drew except.......

70Million for Drew 5years
90Million for Hunter 5years

Lets see
Hunter 28HRs 107RBIs 45(2B) 1(3B) .287avg 101Ks 172Hits
Drew 11HRs 64RBIs 30(2B) 4(3B) .270avg 100Ks 126Hits

Lets see we pay 20Million more but we get.....
17HRs, 43RBIs, 15Doubls, and 46hits more than you guys get out of drew. Not to mention a GOLD GLOVE defense.

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Nov 22, 2007 3:05 PM PST up reply actions

Must be a slow day

for you to be hanging out all day on an Angels site. For not caring that the Angels signed Hunter and overpaid (in your opinion), you seem pretty consumed by the whole ordeal.

by tanana40 on Nov 22, 2007 4:14 PM PST up reply actions

Don't need M. Cabrera

With the new addition of Torii Hunter, we can't use Figgins in the 4th OF role, which means if he's going to be in the lineup it's going to be at 3B every day. I'll take Miguel Tejada, keep our better prospects that we would've given up for Cabrera but not necessarily for Tejada, and keep Figgins in the lineup every day.

by ponusbaum43 on Nov 22, 2007 7:23 PM PST reply actions

If we trade for Cabrera

HK goes to Florida (even writing that makes me feel uncomfortable) and Chone is the everyday 2B.

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 23, 2007 1:23 AM PST up reply actions

WATCH THIS HUNTER VIDEO

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hE5TkHCtlYI

Now hes ANGELS TERRITORY!!!!!

Funny ass TV comercial.

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Nov 22, 2007 8:19 PM PST reply actions

Funny, yes!

But it looks familiar. Didn't the Angels have an ad like that in '02 or '03?

". . .and the young lions will lock horns!" -- Ron Fairly, from an Angels telecast

by rspencer on Nov 22, 2007 11:15 PM PST up reply actions

There's no doubt

the guy's got character!

by HawaiiHaloFan35 on Nov 23, 2007 11:41 AM PST up reply actions

Lol

Just because other teams are starting to spend money doesn't make the Red Sox any less douchey, or annyoing. The obvious worst part of the Sawk are the fanbase, not the team itself. I have respect for the front office who obviously know whats its doing and can bring championships to their team.

The people that annoy everyone not currently living on the east coast or employed by ESPN is smug assholes like Mr Acumen who come over and flame our signing for little reason. This is why everyone hate you Red Sox's fans.

by Pwn on Nov 23, 2007 12:25 AM PST reply actions

Great Point

They are sore winners.

by Rev Halofan on Nov 23, 2007 12:29 AM PST up reply actions

Moreno interviewed at U of AZ game in Tucson

When asked about loss of A-Rod, he said Angels offered half. He laughed. He said we need more offense and a starter, well the team has that now. Speculating on getting Cabrera is ridiculous. Expendable players are starting pitchers for relief pitchers. Santana for a relief pitcher or any decent bat as Shields is unreliable. They will not move Figgins until McPherson shows he can or can not play as Haynes is a goner, thus Figgins is unreliable. Willits needs to play everyday. So does Mathis. So a package of tradables include Figgins, Willits, Napoli, and Santana. I would not give up Kendrick. As to SP, Garland pitched for a really lousy offensive team with low moral last year and should do much better. Weaver, Saunders, Garland along with Escobar and Lackey make a nice starting rotation. Still apprehensive about the bullpen, especially in the second half. I don't think they do enough conditioning. I expect a top notch bullpen move for Figgins or Willits. I'm wondering how many gay people are in MLB? And if Santana gets openly harrased about it.

by roidrage on Nov 23, 2007 2:44 AM PST reply actions