Please explain the Mathews AND Hunter signings to me...

by goodvibe61 on Dec 23, 2007 6:17 PM PST

I keep trying to wrap myself around this concept and it continues to not make sense to me.

Last year we sign Gary Mathews Jr. to a pretty big contract. Gary comes in and does a decent job all year, his average is pretty mediocre, but he does hit for a little power, and he doesn't complain one bit when he's asked to move all over the lineup instead of being planted in the lead off position, where it seems he fits best. Heck, we've already got a leadoff guy in Figgins, which only adds to the confusion in my book.

So, Gary does a decent job. And he's a natural center fielder, where he plays an overall solid game, not gold glove, but overall pretty good, spectacular at times, and mistake prone at others. And he's signed for FIVE YEARS, with a no trade for at least a couple years.

During the same year Reggie Willits opens some eyes with a very nice rookie campaign, primarily the result of Juan Rivera breaking his leg. Rivera showed plenty of power potential the year before, and he's an inexpensive power bat who has shown good potential when healthy.

Plus, we have Vlad the Impaler and GA, who had a kind of rebirth during the second half of 07.

So that's five outfielders right there already, there isn't enough room for everyone, even with one of the guys DHing.

And what do we do? We sign T. Hunter to a HUGE deal. And we don't move any of the other outfielders. There's no other deal consummated to free up playing time for the outfielders, or to improve the roster anywhere else, even though we continue to be sorely lacking a power hitting third baseman.

What was the reason behind signing both Mathews AND Hunter? Is it that old adage of going out and getting "the best athlete available", and slightly overpaying for a quality player, a strategy I don't have much of a problem with if we really NEEDED in this case a center fielder. Which we didn't.

Or was it part of a bigger plan to first sign Hunter and then make a move that ended up not happening? And if that's the case are we then screwed up in the roster department?

Please discuss what you think the strategy behind the Hunter signing means. I'm trying to see where we're going roster wise and it just isn't adding up for me.

What about Kendry? How is he ever going to get to DH now? He will get zero AB's in 08, there's no room for him, unless Kotch goes down again. Willits: will he even make the opening day roster? How can he, we can't carry that many outfielders can we?

Is GA gone after this year? Are we gonna make a trade (I don't see it)? Where is all this headed?

Thanks!

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

Tweet Comment 35 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

with ga, gmj & hunter...

our of will look like the dinosaurs of the freeway out by cabazon.

by thejd on Dec 23, 2007 7:21 PM PST reply actions

Hey, I love those dinosaurs!

They rock!

by goodvibe61 on Dec 24, 2007 8:47 AM PST up reply actions

Ever been inside?

The brontosaurus is a cheezy gift shop.

Also, you can't see them anymore -- they're blocked by a BK or something.

Angels fan since '67

by red floyd on Dec 24, 2007 4:53 PM PST up reply actions

i heard

they stopped serving the whopper.

:-O

by ihearhowie2.0 on Dec 25, 2007 12:54 AM PST up reply actions

Pee Wee's Big Adventure

has a scene in those dinosaurs. Pretty funny.

"Erstad says he's got it. Erstad makes the catch!..."

by Rally Manatee on Dec 26, 2007 1:12 PM PST up reply actions

Vlad & GA will DH alot

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Dec 23, 2007 8:52 PM PST reply actions

hunter

upgrades the offense and clubhouse. hes marketable, hes a good personality and he just adds to our profile a bit.

nobody complains about 25-30 HR and gold glove outfield defense. He essentially replaces GA's production after this year as well.

by ihearhowie2.0 on Dec 23, 2007 9:14 PM PST reply actions

I agree it's a sign that GA will be gone...

That's one of the things that keeps coming to mind..

by goodvibe61 on Dec 24, 2007 8:47 AM PST up reply actions

Two things you can't have enough of:

Pitching and aging outfielders.

by bc56274 on Dec 23, 2007 9:35 PM PST reply actions

ROFL

Stop swinging at balls out of the zone!

by K3YEROUT on Dec 26, 2007 8:46 AM PST up reply actions

The thinking...

I think the thinking goes something like: there aren't going to be any 3rd base candidates that we can sign to big contracts, so we might as well spend the money on to upgrade our outfield a little and hope a trade comes along later.

by gohalos on Dec 23, 2007 9:58 PM PST reply actions

AD NAUSEUM....

seriously... i think we've discussed this a few thousand times now.

Our OF is aging, Hunter bolsters the defense and GMJ gives regular rest to GA/Vlad.

Why is this so hard to understand?

I'm a gutless, two-faced little b!tch.

by Los Angeles de Anaheim on Dec 23, 2007 10:13 PM PST reply actions

Watch Vlad Bobble the ball

Watch Vlad gimp around the bases

Watch Vlad's knee recall Montreal and wear down fast

OR SIMPLY Bring in Torii and slow down Vlad's Aging.

by Rev Halofan on Dec 23, 2007 10:23 PM PST reply actions

amen,

brother.

Vote Garret Anderson in '08!

by NoDakHalo on Dec 24, 2007 2:23 PM PST up reply actions

I'd like to think that something's coming

down the pike pretty soon. The offseason's not over yet. By the way, wasn't Vlad acquired sometime in mid/late December a few years back?

by PieceOfAase on Dec 23, 2007 11:09 PM PST reply actions

Vlad was acquired in January

there is still time, folks...

by Rev Halofan on Dec 23, 2007 11:38 PM PST up reply actions

We may even wait till July

We may wait and see where we are in the standings and trade before the deadline. Remember, we don't have Stone-cold-man at the helm anymore. A mid season trade isn't out of the picture. But if this mess of a roster somehow works out, we can stand pat. Also, remember Scioscia IS at the helm still, the guy won the series with no lefties in the bullpen, and won the AL west with no real DH. He's unorthodox, and I love it.

"Erstad says he's got it. Erstad makes the catch!..."

by Rally Manatee on Dec 26, 2007 1:08 PM PST up reply actions

Drinking out loud?

Crazy HH Holiday trade scenarios thread... Join the festivities!

Figgins/Willits to Ken Williams for OCab/Crede/prospect

by Bilko 420 on Dec 23, 2007 11:18 PM PST reply actions

Figgins & KRod

to the Cubs for ARam.

GMJr & Quinlan to the Twins for Joe Nathan.

These scenarios fill needs for all participating clubs at nearly par dollars. The Twins still could use a quality marketable CF with a locked-in price, and they still need a DH (who would be a hometown hero). The Cubs showed interest in Figgins (albeit before Fukudome) and have expressed concerns about their closer Dempster. The Angels would have theip power-hitting 3Bman plus a reliable closer, Aybar would become near-league-minimum supersub, Rivera would become the roving OFer, and Willits OF and OBP versatility could be allowed to hang around at near league minimum. Brandon Wood could then be allowed to start at SS in 2008 batting 9th.

The Figgins and GMJr scenarios could potentially be swapped between the Cubs and Twins.

Or.......Figgins could become our high-dollar replacement for GAnderson after next season, retaining his lead-off spot, while DMac works his way back into the 3B picture.....cheap, as we trade off Willits, Haynes, and possibly Rivera and/or Evans.

by wumbug on Dec 24, 2007 3:19 AM PST up reply actions

Nathan is worth more than that

Um.........

by hauldog on Dec 24, 2007 5:44 PM PST up reply actions

Thanks

for taking the time to read and digest.

by wumbug on Dec 24, 2007 10:02 PM PST up reply actions

I did digest it

Your weak offer for Nathan is what stands out. I do like the proposal for A Ram though, and the creative thoughts on improving the team. That team would win the World Series.

Um.........

by hauldog on Dec 24, 2007 11:54 PM PST up reply actions

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

GMJr would be a marketable, showcase acquisition for the Twins' CF that would lessen the sting of losing Hunter.

Quinlan was a star at the University of Minnesota and the Big 10 Conference Player of the Year in 1999. He was also the Pacific League Most Valuable Player, and Angels Minor League Player of the Year in 2002. I believe that if he (like many others) were given regular playing time, he would be a very valuable, productive player. He has shown the Angels that he can hit for average and for occasional power. He's not fluid, but he gets the job done. Besides, the Twins are looking for a DH. I think Rob Quinlan fits the bill.

If Hunter and Quinlan are not enough, I'm sure we could sweeten the offer somewhat, but certainly not to the proportions of Johan Santana or Miguel Cabrera. I think it's a pretty good trade.

by wumbug on Dec 25, 2007 7:08 AM PST up reply actions

Quinlan

is a fringe major-leaguer.

GMJr. cannot be traded.

by jjackflash on Dec 25, 2007 11:24 AM PST up reply actions

Goodvibe61's questions

regarding the signings of GMJr:

During 2006, it was obvious that Figgins wasn't the CFer needed to patrol between a declining GA and hobbled Vlad. Also, Figgins had been moved from leadoff to batting 9th at the end of 2006. Many of us were very disgruntled about Figgins last off-season. GMJr was a career-year highlight reel CFer who happend to bat leadoff for Texas. Both Texas and San Francisco had offered GMJr three years @$30MM with conventional wisdom being that at least San Francisco would offer a fourth year. Stoneman swooped in offering five years @$50MM with a no-trade clause the first three years.

Regarding Torii Hunter:

I'm guessing that recurring concerns over OF play by GAnderson, Vlad, a healing broken leg of Rivera, and then concerns over injuries and possible suspension to GMJr led to the Angels looking at CFers. Although Willits is a very capable OFer who helped the club immensely in 2007, he has no pop for a team that needs pop. Minnesota offered Hunter 3 years @$45MM. I think Texas offered 5 years @$75MM. In order to get the deal done quickly with no haggling, Moreno & Company offered 5 years @$90MM. I can only imagine that the Angels felt that Texas would up their initial offer at a time when the Angels were focused on trading for Miguel Cabrera.

The cynic in me tells me that, in addition to the signing of Hunter that I just outlined, it made GMJr a more attractive commodity for the likes of the Twins or the Cubs, possibly in exchange for Johan Santana, Joe Nathan, or Aramis Ramirez. The price for premium CFers is now set at an average of around $15MM/year. GMJr is now a bargain with 4years@$42MM left on his contract. Eventually someone is going to want him more than we do, unless he gets hurt. Or, we've got two great CFers roaming our outfield. It's a good business move either way this plays out.

Regarding GAnderson:

Unless Garret has a monster year, I don't see the Angels picking up his option for 2009. They could buy him out for $3MM and then sign him for one year to a cheaper contract (I think the Rev suggested that), or let him retire. The scenarios I've already outlined cover the what-ifs. We've got lots of options right now.

Regarding Morales:

This is a mystery. I think he'll make the 25-man roster as a 1B backup (possibly along with Quinlan) and ONLY left handed power pinch hitter (yes, he's a switch hitter). Kotchman will need time off......the Angels are covering that scenario. After 2008, if GA leaves and if DMac doesn't make it here, where is our left handed power other than Kotchman? Most pitchers are right handed, you know. ..............Or they could start him at AAA, or trade him. Who knows?

by wumbug on Dec 24, 2007 4:35 AM PST reply actions

Kendry Morales

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Dec 24, 2007 10:49 AM PST up reply actions

Sorry but,

living in BF Wisconsin I might miss some things...did the Angels resign McPherson or did the two proceeding posters forget he's gone? He is gone, right?? Ahhhh! I miss OC! I hate the snow!!

Thanks for letting me vent, time to go shovel the driveway.

by WIAngelsFan on Dec 24, 2007 6:04 AM PST reply actions

This was merely

a drinking outside the box holiday exercise designed to foment discussion and injure a few brain cells. Any resemblance between players and persons living or dead is purely coincidental.

So how's the driveway looking?

by Bilko 420 on Dec 24, 2007 8:28 AM PST up reply actions

Driveway's Done...

and so am I. At least we can get the cars out, but it's going to be a couple months until you can actually see concrete. We moved to Wisconsin six years ago. The first couple years it was a novelty shoveling..."Hey look! I'm shoveling snow!" Now it's "Oh crap (or other expletive)! I've got to shovel the (more explectives)snow." I really do miss OC. The food, the weather, the Angel games. We make the pilgrimage at least once a year locally to see the Angels play. The best was in 2002 when they played the Brewers (Angels won!)and my wife got a couple idiots tossed from the game for throwing stuff at Troy Percival in the bullpen. Looking forward to opening day in Minneapolis this year.

Sorry for getting off topic.

by WIAngelsFan on Dec 24, 2007 9:01 AM PST up reply actions

You're a good man, Bilko!

Merry Christmas!

by wumbug on Dec 24, 2007 10:43 PM PST up reply actions

Sunk costs

They signed GMJ and hoped for the best. Now they know the 2006 version is not the real version, plus after seeing his D up close all year they know it's not good.

So Hunter was the best fit (not perfect fit) for their needs they could actually sign, and they had to spend the money anyway, so there ya go. Also, they hope he makes inroads with fans in South Central.

by elricsi on Dec 24, 2007 12:04 PM PST reply actions

hunter

is a good hitter, good defender, good teammate, and an all around good guy. i think what he brings to the team over the next five years, on and off the field, will prove to be worth every penny.

Vote Garret Anderson in '08!

by NoDakHalo on Dec 24, 2007 2:27 PM PST reply actions

hunter the #1 worst signing according to

MLBtraderumors.com

and i'm still bummed about d-mac

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlTvSUCCqPo

by ANewFoundThrice on Dec 26, 2007 5:05 PM PST reply actions

It's an opinion, not a fact

...this guy has the Mark Prior signing (as a Cubs fan he's still got some kind of crush on him) as the 3rd best of the off-season.

Context is everything. And the signing seems only to be a bad one because we overpaid.

I see red people

by The Limey on Dec 27, 2007 6:07 AM PST up reply actions

synergy not chemistry

I can't wait to see this team play in 2008.
What does this line up do to opp. pitching./better pitches?
Vladdy/Rivera at DH get respect?
I see positive energy and more slugging%.

and Salmon goes upstream!

by LAcubedfan on Dec 26, 2007 7:43 PM PST reply actions