Chuck Finley Future HOF ?

by Halofanatic on Dec 28, 2007 3:43 PM PST Comment 22 comments

There is a big article on the franchise' most solid lefty. I'm one of the biggest Chuck Finley fans on this planet probably and can't me any more happier. Moreover, he is the best candidate to being the first hall of famer to go in with an Angels cap. We definitely need to get behind him and have our first representative.

Here is the link to this story:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071219&content_id=2333548&vkey=news_mlb&fext=. jsp&c_id=mlb

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

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There is just no way this will happen

I would be shocked (but pleasantly surprised) if Chuck even gets the needed to remain on the ballot.

by Rev Halofan on Dec 28, 2007 3:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Right

and if Blyleven can't get in, Finley doesn't have a prayer.

by Higz on Dec 28, 2007 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We just all need to rally around and vote, vote,

vote!!!

FIN-TO-WIN!!!!!

If I hear the word "red sox"...POW!!! RIGHT IN THE KISSER!!!

by Halofanatic on Dec 28, 2007 3:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

We don't vote for HOF

Get M-Cab, try to save the Howie.

by 101halo on Dec 28, 2007 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you get to vote?

I don't.

by Dogman on Dec 28, 2007 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

During my all too brief stay in SoCal...

...he was the one pitcher I wanted to see pitch more than any other.

If he gets to the hall I'll be amazed, but he will always be the best starting pitcher I saw take the mound for the Angels.

I see red people

by The Limey on Dec 28, 2007 5:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

yeah....i wasn't sure who exactly was part of the

committee...sorry.

If I hear the word "red sox"...POW!!! RIGHT IN THE KISSER!!!

by Halofanatic on Dec 28, 2007 5:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Finley rates the Hall of Very Good

but not Cooperstown. 73 score on the Bill James toy (admittedly obsolete nowadays). But let us review Rich Lederer's arguments for Bert Blyleven's inclusion and compare these to Chuck Finley's numbers:

Mr. Blyleven ranks fifth all time in career strikeouts. You have seen the virtues of electing the top dozen other than the man known as Only The Lonely. [Chuck Finley is 23rd, with 2,610 K's. Only Mickey Lolich (2,832), Frank Tanana (2,773), and David Cone (2,668) are eligible players with more who are not in the Hall.]
Mr. Blyleven ranks ninth in shutouts. You have seen the virtues of inducting the top 20 other than our subject. [Finley doesn't really cut it here, tied with umpty others for 387th with a mere 15.]
Mr. Blyleven ranks 24th in wins. You have seen the virtues of honoring every eligible pitcher ahead of him save one. [Finley's tied for 109th with 200. However, in his defense, it should be noted that it puts him only nine behind HoFer Don Drysdale, and one back of Rube Marquard.]
Looking at more advanced metrics, Bert Blyleven ranks 14th in Neutral Wins. You have voted in every pitcher in the top 20 other than Mr. Blyleven. [Don't know how this breaks down because B-Ref doesn't provide this stat. This also applies to the next issue raised.]
Mr. Blyleven also ranks 17th in Runs Saved Above Average. You have enshrined every pitcher in the top 20 other than him.
Among pitchers with 4,000 or more innings, Bert Blyleven ranks 19th in ERA vs. the league average. Once again, you have found a spot in Cooperstown for every pitcher in the top 20 other than Mr. Blyleven. [Finley's tied with HoFers Ferguson Jenkins, Phil Niekro, and Eppa Rixey with a career 115 ERA+, ranking the group 185th overall.]

In other words, there's a case that Finley's a Hall of Famer, but not a particularly compelling one, except for his strikeouts. Like Blyleven, he was hurt by pitching for bad teams, but unlike Blyleven, his other accomplishments don't make up for that.

Hoping Ervin Santana turns it around in Salt Lake. Go, Ervin!

by scareduck on Dec 28, 2007 10:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

If there was a Hall of Fame for......

....marrying crazy bitches, Chuck Finley would be a first ballot HOF'er.

But since there isn't, his likelihood is zero.

by bc56274 on Dec 28, 2007 11:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

truer words were never posted...

by Rev Halofan on Dec 29, 2007 12:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You guys better watch out...

Tawny has a red pump with your name on it!

Jimmuscomp

Haloville- Land of the Angels
Homepage

by jimmuscomp on Dec 29, 2007 8:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

HA ! ! !

Missus Halofan would spit that psychobitch out of her morning cornflakes...

by Rev Halofan on Dec 29, 2007 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Some votes

There are 64 pitchers in the HOF, depending on who you count as elected as a pitcher. Bill James invented this stat called Fibonacci wins that converts a won-loss record to one number, and Finley is 159th all time in that (with 134.2)

There are 3 HOF pitchers near that number:

Candy Cummings 139.0 (supposed inventor of curveball)

Dennis Eckersley 131.5 (I think he did some closing too)

Rube Marquard 130.9 (probably the worst pitcher elected for his starting pitching)

Among HOF eligible pitchers who pitched in the 20th century, he is 70th in Fibonacci Wins, just behind Dave Steib and Rick Reuschel.

He is probably had the best Angels pitching career, but he will only get a few HOF votes at best.

P.S. I have Finley as 131st all time in pitching win shares. (He is actually a bit lower than that as at least a couple of active pitchers have passed him)

by elricsi on Dec 29, 2007 11:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

i think i've seen candy cummings...

but it had nothing to do with baseball. the readings on the juggs gun was off the chart.

by thejd on Dec 29, 2007 11:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Total and complete...

PANTHER!!!

Jimmuscomp

Haloville- Land of the Angels
Homepage

by jimmuscomp on Dec 29, 2007 7:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

POY

Post of the Year, hands-down!

by PieceOfAase on Dec 30, 2007 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

First things first

Bobby freaking Grich. Who actually deserves it.

Also, doesn't Tanana have a better case than Finley?

by mattwelch on Dec 30, 2007 7:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Tanana

Frank had 240 wins compared to Chuck's 200.
Frank's career ERA was 3.66 compared to Chuck's 3.85. Frank also had more strike outs (and 236 losses). In short, neither one will make the Hall of Fame. Both were very good left-handers in their time but neither are HOFers.

by tanana40 on Dec 30, 2007 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

some random stats

Finley
Black Ink: Pitching - 6 (363) (Average HOFer ~ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 156 (86) (Average HOFer ~ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 27.0 (170) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 53.5 (230) (Likely HOFer > 100)

Bly11 - Still not any where near the needed votes.
Black Ink: Pitching - 16 (131) (Average HOFer ~ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 237 (24) (Average HOFer ~ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 50.0 (38) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 120.5 (68) (Likely HOFer > 100)

Tanana - refernced for historical perspective.
Black Ink: Pitching - 9 (250) (Average HOFer ~ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 85 (269) (Average HOFer ~ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 35.0 (93) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 55.0 (221) (Likely HOFer > 100)

Orel - referenced as a contemporary - 4.4% of vote... off the ballot!
Black Ink: Pitching - 20 (88) (Average HOFer ~ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 129 (130) (Average HOFer ~ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 34.0 (101) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 90.5 (117) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

The only one who has surpassed any of the supposed barriers is Bly11, and he is still having a tough time making a case. Finley was a wonderful pitcher, but not even close to a HOFer.

Explanations for each of these standard can be found at baseball reference dot com.

Lamest poster of all-time.

by ineptituderunsamok on Dec 30, 2007 2:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I love the HOF Monitor

Look up Lance Parrish's numbers one day.

by Rev Halofan on Dec 30, 2007 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

They

all have their problems. That is why I listed 4 of them to try and spread it out a bit. There is no magic number or automatic entrance criteria. That is one of the things that appeals to the majority of us... it gives us something to argue about!

I'm a small hall guy. I don't think any of them deserve to gain entrance. I like Ripken and Gwynn, but to me they meant so much more to baseball and their teams than any of the other guys on the ballot.

Lamest poster of all-time.

by ineptituderunsamok on Dec 31, 2007 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The HoF Monitor

is a fun toy, but even James says it's obsolete now. Rich Lederer recently ran a piece about Finley's chances and the HoF voting process that's a worthy read.

Hoping Ervin Santana turns it around in Salt Lake. Go, Ervin!

by scareduck on Dec 31, 2007 5:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs