Angels 3rd base and lineup

by higdog on Dec 6, 2007 5:51 PM PST Comment 47 comments

I think the Angels should let Brown and D-Mac fight it out for 3rd this season and Wood and Aybar for SS. Hide those spots in the lineup 8th and 9th. Keep Figgins for insurance. The rest of the line-up can carry us at least to the division. Then trade some OF prospects or current OF's for bullpen help.

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

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I like the way you think

But the reality is that this franchise loves Chone Figgins.

by Rev Halofan on Dec 6, 2007 5:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I used to think this was my favorite

time of the year because of Christmas.

Stay on the damn bag!!

by higdog on Dec 6, 2007 5:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Kidding.

Look at the 3B we compete with - Lowell, ARod, Blake and (bows head) Cabrera. We cannot compete with out a power SS and a 3B that will give us .270/10/55. Not a chance.

That said I love the optimism of this blog. No matter what happens, you see the rosy picture, (i.e. glad to keep Howie and not get Cabrera). Third Base needs to be addressed. We cannot win it all, unless Wood explodes, without serious talent at third.

by 1000steps on Dec 6, 2007 5:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

94 Wins

how long were you in that coma?

by Rev Halofan on Dec 6, 2007 5:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not Long Enough

Super..... congrats on the 94 win season what are you going to do now?

Gonna go get my head kicked in by the Red Sox and lose 3 straight and not hit one single HR have only 6 extra base hits (SLG%.253) score 4 shitty runs while striking out 3 times as much as we walk, all done with the robust team batting avg of .192 that would make Mario Mendoza cringe!

Get over the 94 win issue. Whats your point? 2002 World Series Angels won 99 games and won just 77 games the following year.

Team isn't the same already. There has been a big trade made by the Angels that dealt with a primary position player being dealt. The dynamics of the 2007 Angels that won 94 games have changed already, and I am of the belief they have not been changes that will vault the team any further.

I will still continue o root for them as I have always. I will still yell at Phys and Hud as they try to explain the game. I will still be a fan as I have been for the last 30+ years, and I hope that they will once again catch lighting in a bottle. Just hope I don't have to wait as long as I did the first time. If thats the case I might be way past coma.

by Angel Aviator on Dec 7, 2007 12:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But the beauty of baseball

is that you don't compete with positions, you compete against teams. Put it this way, the Blue Jays have Troy Glaus, a better offensive 3B than the Angels have fielded since they let him walk, and Toronto's not going anywhere.

Hoping Ervin Santana turns it around in Salt Lake. Go, Ervin!

by scareduck on Dec 6, 2007 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

But we don't compete in other areas either.

by 1000steps on Dec 6, 2007 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ummm....

What?

by tom ass on Dec 6, 2007 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Very simple....

Look at the lineups of the contenders. Ours is not as good, especially at 3b. Simple enough?

by 1000steps on Dec 7, 2007 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ummm

What?

by tom ass on Dec 7, 2007 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tee it Up

Bottom line there is the Blue Jays got to start the off season 3 games sooner then the Angels. More rounds of golf.

Not to mention the Angles would be a better team with a player like T. Glaus. Since he left he has avg .258, 32HR's,88 RBI,81 runs,SLG%.503, OBP .362, and a OPS+ 123. That 4 yr 45 mil contract he got after the 2004 season would have been a steal for a third baseman when you look at contracts that Beltre got or Lowell.

by Angel Aviator on Dec 7, 2007 12:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

LoL

Sorry but I disagree.

by tom ass on Dec 6, 2007 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL?

So Figgins or Aybar can compete with Arod, Cabrera, etc. I wish it was funny when our 7,8,9 batters Total 25 hr's.

by 1000steps on Dec 6, 2007 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hmm

you cant win with a linup that only hits homeruns.

our team is built on speed and base running. thats the way weve played for years, why are you acting like this is some new circumstance? we won 94 games last year didnt we?

yeah, power helps but the figgins and aybars are the way we score runs so in that sense, chone figgins is much more valuable to this club in terms of its philosophy as any other 3rd baseman who hits for major power.

deal with it. you need guys on base and guys who try to scatter the ball to score lots of runs. if everyone on our team was power swinging every time they got up, wed be tampa bay. wed score 10 runs occasionally but 0 runs far too often.

by ihearhowie2.0 on Dec 6, 2007 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Play The Hand

The reason for the way the Angels play the games the way they do is because that is the hand that the front office has dealt.

You look at the resent WS winners those teams had power with most of them having 3 players with 20HR's or more.

As for being Tampa Bay they run the bases as well, but they have awful pitching.

by Angel Aviator on Dec 7, 2007 1:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What?

"chone figgins is much more valuable to this club in terms of its philosophy as any other 3rd baseman who hits for major power."

That's ludicrous. So we would have been worse with ARod or Cabrera than Figgins because of our system?

We have this system because we don't have the players, not the other way around.

by 1000steps on Dec 7, 2007 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

this is baseball

your making it sound like tennis with these 1 on 1 and 2 on 2 comparisons. THIS IS BASEBALL. A TEAM SPORT. One or two players doesn't win you a world series. 80 of the 229 people in the hall of fame have never won a world series. a good TEAM wins you a world series.

by tom ass on Dec 6, 2007 9:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I like to see us win with our own talent,

although we have a lot of guys from other teams. After watching for years, guys in our farm system never getting a shot with our team.

Stay on the damn bag!!

by higdog on Dec 6, 2007 5:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think you'll get your wish

It's pretty thin pickings out there in the free agent market.

Hoping Ervin Santana turns it around in Salt Lake. Go, Ervin!

by scareduck on Dec 6, 2007 5:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The Angels won't win it all again...

...until they get more power. Tim Salmon recently said it best...

"We didn't win the World Series because Scott Spiezio hit a single."

by 10 27 02 on Dec 6, 2007 9:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

right

we came back with a Glaus double and won it with a GA double.

by tom ass on Dec 6, 2007 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

and none of it possible

without the Spezio jack...

Wanted: Any position player with power

by gorams77 on Dec 6, 2007 9:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

and no world series

without the glaus and ga hits

by tom ass on Dec 6, 2007 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

or Spezio's HR

One led to the other. Yes the doubles scored the go ahead runs but without the 3 run HR + Erstads HR - those double score us 2 runs and we are still down by 3.

The whole point is that you do NEED power to help win in the playoffs. You can point to those doubles all you want - they were great - but not the main reason that we came back from 5 runs down.

Those Sux games were close with the exception of one inning any game - their power killed us. Wouldn't it have been nice if we had a jack or two to swing mo on our side? I think so...

Wanted: Any position player with power

by gorams77 on Dec 6, 2007 10:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i know what your saying

i don't disagree that power helps you win but it isn't necessary to win. besides we played that sux series with a taped up lineup. i knew the second gmj was out and GA had been poisoned by a sux fan (kidding) it was going to be ugly for us. just imagine how different that series would have been if those 2 were healthy and if rivera never broke his leg.

by tom ass on Dec 6, 2007 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Doubles

are a lot more than guys like Reggie Willits get us. I'd kill to replace a lot of our singles with doubles.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 6, 2007 10:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Erstad solo HR

Stop swinging at balls out of the zone!

by K3YEROUT on Dec 6, 2007 10:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not a Single

Those hits you mention were extra base hits!! Not singles as the previous post had mentioned! Power/Extra base hits.

by Angel Aviator on Dec 7, 2007 12:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

no shit sherlock

look above and you'll see that i did say doubles

by tom ass on Dec 7, 2007 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

tim salmon

as hatcher's replacement at batting coach? anyone else think that might be a good idea?

"Water DiSar's Garden"

by Sorbo182 on Dec 6, 2007 9:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Never happening

Fish left to pursue family life. Traveling with the team is not an option for him now.

by shiftyeyedgoat on Dec 7, 2007 1:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I still think

that wood needs at least another half season in the oven at AAA.

by Doctor Wu on Dec 6, 2007 9:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

agreed

he's not quite ready for the show yet

by tom ass on Dec 7, 2007 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Miguel Tejada

Miguel Tejada's career averages - 32 years old, .287 avg, 93 runs, 172 hits, 33 doubles, 26 HR, 102 RBI's, 46 BB, 81 K's, 6 SB, .344 OBH, .477 SLG.

Orlando Cabrera's career averages - 33 years old, .273 avg, 74 runs, 152 hits, 36 doubles, 10 HR, 67 RBI's, 40 BB, 51 K's, 18 SB, .321 OBH, .403 SLG.

Chone Figgins career averages - 30 years old, .293 avg, 93 runs, 166 hits, 24 doubles, 6 HR, 59 RBI's, 57 BB, 94 K's, 47 SB, .354 OBH, .400 SLG.

Edge:
Age: Figgins
AVG: Figgins
Runs: Figgins and Tejada = Push
Hits: Tejada
DBLS: Cabrera
HR: Tejada
RBI's: Tejada
BB: Figgins
SO: Cabrera
SB: Figgins
OBH: Figgins
SLG: Tejada

1st place: 5 Figgins
2nd place: 4 Tejada
3rd place: 2 Cabrera

This is really just for fun, but maybe we did get rid of the lesser shortstop. Keep Figgins at third because as you can see, he's valuable. And it also shows Tejada isn't that bad. He still had a higher OBH than Cabrera last year.

I have no problem getting Tejada for Santana, but preferably Saunders, Willits, and Aybar. And maybe if it seals the deal, throw in Steve Shell or Nick Green.

by matt92130 on Dec 7, 2007 1:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

How many HR's this year

If our line-up looked like this based on plate appearances... HR per AB on last season stats:

C: Napooli/Mathis 22 HR combined
1st: Kotchman: 14 HR
2nd: Kendrick 8 HR
SS: Tejada 18 HR
3rd: 6 HR
LF: Anderson 16 HR
CF: Hunter 28 HR
RF: Guerrero 27 HR
DH: Matthews 18 HR

That gives us 36 more jacks a year, just out of our starting line-up. Not including what our bench does. Everyone is saying how bad Tejada is... bit he's still better offensively than Cabrera. Adding Hunter was huge. Add team did add pop, trust me. You wouldn't be happy with this line-up???

Figgins 3rd
Kendrick 2nd
Guerrero RF
Tejada SS
Anderson LF
Hunter CF
Kotchman 1st
Matthews Jr. DH
Napoli/Mathis C

Whew! Man, that's a line-up. Fuck MCab... so what. We didn't get him. Bottom line, we're still improved offensively and I believe defensively when GMJ is in the OF minus Vlad or GA. More experienced, and a better staff. Guys, I like it a lot.

by matt92130 on Dec 7, 2007 2:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry for all the errors on the above

It's 5 am here and I just woke up. Had to get an Angel blog before I start my day.

by matt92130 on Dec 7, 2007 2:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

How about this

So if your going to do the Lineup like that why not just look at it this way as well
162 Game Avg
C- Napoli 24 HR's 453 AB's 7 SB / 5 CS
1B- Kotch 12 HR's 493 AB's 4 SB / 4 CS
2B- Figgins 6 HR's 616 AB's 50 SB / 16 CS
SS- OC 11 HR's 609 AB's 19 SB / 4 CS
3B- MCab 31 HR's 606 AB's 4 SB / 2 CS
LF- Anderson 22 HR's 645 AB's 3 SB / 2 CS (07)
CF- Hunter 25 HR's 590 AB's 17 SB / 8 CS
RF- Vlad 37 HR's 613 AB's 2 SB / 3 CS (07)
DH- GMJ 15 HR's 527 AB's 13 SB / 5 CS
=======
183 HR's 5152 AB's

Last year the Angels had 5554 AB's and 123 HR's. Thats 50 more jacks with this lineup.

by Angel Aviator on Dec 7, 2007 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Only question there is...

who the hell gave MCab the steal sign 6 times in a year?

by autrys cowboys on Dec 7, 2007 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

True

I am guessing it was a busted hit and run, or backside of a double steal

by Angel Aviator on Dec 7, 2007 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You are pretty close !!

With the batting order i would have Tejada hitting 6th not fourth and Hunter taking over the clean-up role. But i would still try and trade for Ramariz with the Cubs and give them what they need; payroll relief, speed, pitching and even some power to help with the loss of Ramariz. Offer then Figgins, Aybar, Willits, Rivera, Saunders and Mosley for Ramariz and if they want to dump Prior we take a chance on him. If they want Wood take Figgins out and give him a shot at short with Izturis backing him up. Rivera could hit 20+ home runs in wrigley for them. What do you think ????

by cookieman 57 on Dec 8, 2007 7:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

big problem with your evaluation

is that where tejada is better he is WAY better and where figgins is better he is slightly better. In avg Figgins is .005 better than Tejada. In HR Tejada is 20 better than Figgins. Also Tejada is up there in ever stat catagory where as OC and Figgins ahead slightly in a few and way behind Tejada in others.

by BoulderBrian on Dec 8, 2007 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Brown + Aybar = 2nd place

Those guys can't hit major league pitching.

by mattwelch on Dec 7, 2007 9:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Nice

Good to have you back.

by Angel Aviator on Dec 7, 2007 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is there a way......

Would any of these three be a good fit for 3b and would we be able to get them? (Evan Longoria-Rays,Ian Stewart-Rockies, Edwin Encarnacion-Reds)

by HapaAngel on Dec 7, 2007 10:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

Encarnacion maybe, but the others I would have to say it wouldn't happen.

There is a 3rd baseman that might all of a sudden end up being an Angel. I would not be shocked if it happened then again I would not be over joyed by Pedro Feliz. He might be the cheapest and best value . It would be the Edgar Alfonzo thing in the since that he would be a guy from SF just this time it won't be 8 mill a year.

by Angel Aviator on Dec 7, 2007 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Eva Longoria

I'm sure the Rev would love to have Eva Longoria around...

Oh wait... you said EVAN.

Angels fan since '67

by red floyd on Dec 7, 2007 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

add Chase Headley to that list

-- he's blocked by Kouzmanoff, and the Pads need a CF. Willits would work, even GMJ might waive his no-trade clause in order to start in CF for a pennant contending team.

Bud Black is more than familiar with the Halos' personnel--let's get a deal done!

I bleed Angel red

by squarefootnatlpark on Dec 9, 2007 1:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs