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yet another trade deadline dissappointment!

ok here is my take on this whole "no big" trade by the deadline...

stoneman is baseballs mitch kupcheck plain and simple. think about it he is the gm of a soon to be dynasty here in anahiem but is to chicken to "be the one to make a bad trade"....well bill the only way you can make a bad trade is to not make one at all.

if you look at our history with GM's one is forced to look at Bill Bavasi in 78'. he thought that Nolan Ryan was not worth 1 mil. well lets see what he did after that, he went back home and threw 3 more complete game shut outs and 1 perfect game. hmmm.... looks like the angels got the shit end of that one. now the edmunds for Kent Botenfield and AK deal, well once again we get shafted on that one since AK is back on the Cards. and then look at the trades that didnt go through.... Randy Johnson, Carlos Lee (who leads the NL in RBI's), Alfonso Soriano, and the list goes on....

basically the ineptitude of our GM's comes as no surprise, just as it should not you if you have been a fan for a while (before 2002)

if arte is as committed to winning as he says he is the stone(d)man's contract will not be renewed after the World Series and we will have a new GM that is willing to put his neck on the line and make some EFFING trades!!!!!!

**off season hopefulls*
AROD (stated he would opt out after the season), WILLIS or Mcab (florida can not aford to keep both).

as for this season. we will make the playoffs because there is no way seatle can keep up there current pace, they are one Jose Guillen melt down away from not competing. I hardly doubt we will be able to beat boston in the playoffs, so once agian no world series ring and a big disappointment brought to you by the GM's office and Bill Stoneman!

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

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Ridiculous
No world series ring because of Stoneman.  This entire diary is a joke.  

I hate being in first place, its all Stoneman's fault.

Our only chance to win a world series is if we can pull off another Sal Fasano/Alex Ochoa trade that propelled us to the wild card in 2002.

Blah Blah Blah

by Wytelitning on Jul 31, 2007 3:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I titled my post, just below yours...
RIDICULOUS also!  But, I rescinded and decided to be a bit more constructive.

This was wallis' opinion and he was venting.  Poor fellow is one of the Stoneman haters.

'86 never happened!

by Downing Rules on Jul 31, 2007 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now watch WTE...
dominate us tonight!  That's going to make the Stoneman haters come out of the woodwork!  :)

As for me, I don't agree that a trade had to be made...there was not much available without giving up the present and the future.  

Let's work on getting Vladdy to start hitting the ball, and I think we have no problems offensively once that happens.

'86 never happened!

by Downing Rules on Jul 31, 2007 3:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This makes so much sense
because making trades simply for trades' sake is a sure-fire way to win the world series.

After all, the Angels haven't won a WS under Stoneman's watch...

Oops.

The Angels haven't won a division under his watch.

Ooops X 2.

The Angels didn't advance to the ALCS in 2005 under Stoneman's watch.

Oops again.

The Angels aren't currently in first place.

Yet another ooops.

In your diatribe, you also fail to point out any significant trade by any other GM that got his team to the World Series.

The final OOPS in the coffin.

by jjackflash on Jul 31, 2007 3:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wrong
"well bill the only way you can make a bad trade is to not make one at all."

You make a bad trade by giving up more than you get back.  And that's what the Tex trade would have done, because with 5th starter a big question, you cannot afford to trade your #4.  Given the quality of deals out there, Stoneman did perfectly fine by saying no.

If I went to war and could only take one weapon, it would be an HK47.

by RallyMonkey5 on Jul 31, 2007 3:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I would much rather
play it safe. I am so glad they didn't give up Kotchman and a good portion of the future for a guy we would have had to pay more than Vlad.

What I don't get is, who did Atlanta give up? I mean, there isn't a quality major leaguer in that group is there? (I'm really asking; I never heard of any of them.)

Nolan Ryan for president!

by Dodger Hater on Jul 31, 2007 3:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Exactly what I thought
Maybe I'm biased but Atlanta's offer wasn't even in the same ballpark.

It's amazing what a division rival will ask for.  What did the A's want for Piazza, Wood and Adenhart?

by Wytelitning on Jul 31, 2007 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Five for Two
Braves gave up five players, to Texas' two.

To Atlanta: 1B Mark Teixeira, LHP Ron Mahay

To Texas: 1B/C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, SS Elvis Andrus, RHP Neftali Feliz, LHP Matt Harrison, and LHP Beau Jones.

That's a LOT of talent going Texas' way.  It would have cost the Angels Kotchman, plus a starting pitcher (Saunders or Santana), plus a couple of other prospects who are a lot closer to major-league ready than the guys Atlanta gave up.  None of these guys figured into Atlanta's plans in 2008, let alone this year, whereas the Angels would have had to give up players who they're counting on not only for next year, but for the present season as well.

by jjackflash on Jul 31, 2007 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Braves
Salty is supposedly one of the best catching prospects in baseball, but blocked by McCann.  Many think he is too tall to stick at catcher, so they figure he would be a good 1b too.

Even if Teix would have helped us this year, it would have bugged me to see Kotch whaling on us 18 times a year.

No perfect fits in all the peeps on the trading block this year.  If a power hitting, healthy 3rd baseman was available, then sure we would have had to get that done.

by elricsi on Jul 31, 2007 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dontrelle Willis?
Are you friggin' kidding?
Light Up That Halo! ...and tell Clutch to chill!

by cardinalwraith on Jul 31, 2007 3:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Uh, no
well bill the only way you can make a bad trade is to not make one at all

Ask Brian Sabean about the last deal he made with the Twins and see if he would have rather have done nothing instead.

by Ajax on Jul 31, 2007 3:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

ok so
keep our unproven prospects and do nothing.

hmmmmm......

it was this effing website that was saying oh common bill make a trade. give up kotch for tex give up ___ for who ever. now that he didnt make a fucking move he is a saint for not "giving up the farm"

by wallispdub1 on Jul 31, 2007 3:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You're missing the point.
You don't make a trade for the sake of making a trade--you do it to improve the team. Giving up Kotch and Saunders for Tex would have been debatable, but the Rangers wanted more than that--they wanted one of our top prospects (Wood or Adenhart) or Howie. Tex's bat would have helped, but losing our number 4 starter, our ace of the future or our future star third baseman, or our future All-Star second baseman would have hurt us much more.

Piazza was another intriguing option, but I'd bet that Billy Beane was asking for the farm as well since we're interdivision rivals (doesn't mean that we shouldn't have signed him last offseason, though).

There was very little on the market this trading season that would have provided a net benefit to the club. Stoneman made the right choice in standing pat given the context of the situation.

Light Up That Halo! ...and tell Clutch to chill!

by cardinalwraith on Jul 31, 2007 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mitch Kupcheck == Bill?
Re-signed Devean George, Medvedenko.  

Selected Vujacic and signed a worn out Vlade.

Traded Shaq for Brian Grant, Odom, Butler and a Bynum pick.

Traded Atkins and Butler for Profit and Kwame.

Oh... And in the ENTIRE MLB, ONLY BOSTON HAS A BETTER RECORD.


Yes, this moron who you compare to cupcake has led the Angels to the SECOND BEST RECORD in the MLB.  He should be FIRED FOR THAT.


28 of 30 GMs are looking UP at the Angels and you think Stoneman's and IDIOT?

<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 4:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I only fault Stoneman for one thing
Its not letting Glaus go or any of the things mentioned here.  We should have signed Beltran in 2005 instead of Finley.  That's it...

by akathelorax on Jul 31, 2007 4:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Remember Dante Bichette?
That was a trade that we should never should have made. But Hey we got an aging superstar, for one year. And look at the nice little career that Bichette had.So I say"THANKS FOR NOTHING BILL"
I believe with our farm system, we have a bright
future.BUT, lets see what superstar Bill signs
in the offseason.Bill is going to let our farm system develop.And we have a fine farm system.

Ok thats it, BUT LET MATHIS PLAY

Just one of Stonemans unpaid consultants

by Angelfan777 on Jul 31, 2007 4:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't mind stoneman not making trades.....
....but when the offseason rolls around and all you have to do is lure them with money and not VIA TRADE he hasn't been dazzling either!....LET'S FACE IT...STOP BEING A BUNCH OF HOMERS AND THINK ABOUT THIS.....
....HOW MANY WORLD SERIES CONTENDERS/WINNERS HAVE YOU EEEEEVER SEEN THAT HAVE A LINEUP WITH ABSOLUTELY NO HOME RUN POWER????? Not even the 2002 Angels lacked pop. They had PLENTY POWER. This team albeit does NOT. So get your heads out your asses if you think we're going places. If you are the type of fan who thinks we have a good shot at getting deep in the playoffs then i'm sorry...but you're a HOMER!
Final score: Angels 4 Giants 1 Angels 2002 World Series Champions!!!

by Halofanatic on Jul 31, 2007 4:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Marlins.
<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not True At All
The Marlins had 5 players with 16+ HRs on the year with two of them over 30 (Lee and Lowell)...and those numbers don't include a young Miguel Cabrerra that didn't play the whole year.  There was plenty of pop in that lineup over the season.
What? Figgins is playing better? Well, I still don't like him.

by gorams77 on Jul 31, 2007 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was referring to the 97 marlins
<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oops - my bad
but the 97 Marlins still had 5 players over 15 HRs but no one over 23 (Alou).  Still - its hard to say a team with Sheff, Bonilla, and a much younger Alou doesn't have power.
What? Figgins is playing better? Well, I still don't like him.

by gorams77 on Jul 31, 2007 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Check slg.
<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shut up for a second and think about this.
What would you have proposed as a trade? Don't just whine about how those of us who thought standing pat was a good strategy are "homers". Offer up some alternatives.
Light Up That Halo! ...and tell Clutch to chill!

by cardinalwraith on Jul 31, 2007 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll Bite
I am not a Stoneman hater because I value everything he's done with bringing in Scox and building the farm systme to be perenial playoff contenders every year - lord know we didn't have it before.    

That being said it is extremely frustrating at his lack of creativity for trades that could improve the club - it always seems that he has "all his eggs in one basket" type trades or offseason signings that he narrows his focus to and if he doesn't get the one player he's focussed on then he does nothing at all - no plan B's it seems.

I agree that you shouldn't make a trade just to make a trade but I do believe that Dye could have been a very big help this year.  He's 2 yrs removed from a WS MVP year, one year removed from a AL MVP type year, and starting to rake after a dissapointing start to the season.  I don't know what it wouldve taken but the most prominent rumor was Boston offering Willy Mo and a reliever - surely we can come up with a better package than that.  If Chicago doesn't offer him arbitration - they get NOTHING for him - not even draft picks (I think) at the end of the year.  

Just my opinion - thrash it if you want - but I would rather have Dye then a hope that Rivera can come in after his lay off and put up the power numbers we are hoping for...  

What? Figgins is playing better? Well, I still don't like him.

by gorams77 on Jul 31, 2007 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair Enough
From what I recall reading, CWS was seeking a veritable king's ransom from Boston for Dye, whom I also understand has a no-trade and would have had to approve a deal.  One hangup in Boston's deal was that Dye is a FA in October and wants to play every day to compile some stats.  I'm not sure he would have gotten in the lineup often enough to get him to approve the deal.  All speculation, of course.

by jjackflash on Jul 31, 2007 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True
all speculation since Dye wasn't actually traded and who knows how hard Stoneman actually tried behind closed doors. I was yelling at the Tv just cause all the rumors really didn't have us anywhere in the trade talk with him other then "the Angels have interest"

Now that its over - CMON Rivera!  We need you in 2nd half form before you have a 1st half!

What? Figgins is playing better? Well, I still don't like him.

by gorams77 on Jul 31, 2007 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So what if Stoneman's cock shrivles up
every year at the deadline? At least he's not getting *shafted* by giving up what we need to win. I'm perfectly fine with OUR players coming up through OUR system instead of trading them for another clubs benefit.

by CaLiKrAzY on Jul 31, 2007 4:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A fine rambling rant...
... and I do understand your frustration - we all like some action on deadline day - but really, think about it for more than 2 seconds and you must realise that you're talking out of your arse?

Surely?

Just the teeniest bit?

Putting aside for one moment all the fine and logical reasons that the other members of the Choir Invisible have highlighted in the posts above, remember this (in this of all years)

  1.  It's a sellers market - you really don't want to get involved unless you're desperate (see point 3)
  2.  The talent on offer is barely that
  3.  We're sitting in first with a fair bit of talent to return from the DL over the coming weeks
What's the big deal?  We'll be competitive between here and the end of the season and if, as the name suggests, the Angels are truly favoured from on high... good things will come to those who wait.  Keep the faith.

by The Limey on Jul 31, 2007 4:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

But,
At that point in 2005 Angels management was reticent at acquiring anyone that would eclipse Vlad in salary and accomplishments.  He did win the AL MVP in 2004 after all.

The original posting on this diary doesn't merit any sort of response whatsoever.  The cynic in me thinks it was a set-up.  Otherwise the author is a dumba*& (DUMAS)!!!!!!!!

by SactoFan on Jul 31, 2007 4:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Stoneman sucks
Why the hell didn't he trade Casey Kotchman, Joe Saunders, Ervin Santana, Reggie Willits, Hank Conger, Brandon Wood, Matt Brown, Nick Adenhart, Steven Shell, Kendry Morales, Jose Arredondo, Dallas McPherson, Howie Kendrick, Jeff Mathis, Mike Napoli, Terry Evans, Sean Rodriguez, Hainley Statia, and Christopher Pettit for Mark Teixeira?

Fuck stupid Stoneman.  Damn him and his preservation of first place teams with the 2nd highest batting average in the Major Leagues!  DAMN HIM!

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 31, 2007 4:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I never even mentioned the "TRADE"
aspect of the business....please R-E-A-D! I knocked on "stand pat" stoneman from the offseason angle in which you DON'T need to obtain via trade. So now what?....are you gonna say we're not a big market team??? Look at the Bosox who only average 38+ per game and still have plenty money....we're averaging 42k+...Arte has plenty room to shell out dough! I'm getting tired of this ho hum attitude from the GM. DFA Stoneman!!!!!
Final score: Angels 4 Giants 1 Angels 2002 World Series Champions!!!

by Halofanatic on Jul 31, 2007 4:32 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

And this
only serves to highlight just how unintelligible (not to mentioned uninformed) your previous post was.

Because of course, Stoneman didn't sign Vladimir Guerrero.

He didn't sign Bartolo Colon.

He didn't sign Kelvim Escobar, or RE-sign him to a contract extension at about 50% of his FMV.

He didn't trade malcontent Jose Guillen for Juan Rivera and Maicer Izturis.

He didn't sign Justin Speier, or re-sign Scot Shields.

He didn't trade Moo Vaughn for 14-game winner Kevin Appier.

He didn't sign Aaron Sele.

Oh wait, you mean he did do all of those things?

OOPS!

by jjackflash on Jul 31, 2007 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

PANTHER
I believe that is your first PANTH as a married man.

by Rev Halofan on Jul 31, 2007 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You left out at least one...
He DID sign WTY, beating Boras. That, in and of itself, makes Stoneman one of the elite GM's around.

by Stirrups on Jul 31, 2007 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's more to team's profit
than how many freakin' fans show up to the games.  And Sox tickets, for the record, are about twice as expensive on average as Angels tickets, and they have a vastly more expansive fan base than the Angels.  Don't get me wrong, we have the money to sign players, but Stoneman didn't do a goddamn thing wrong this deadline.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 31, 2007 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he didn't do ANYTHING
Which, I think is the point of this post.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Being a GM
isn't about "doing something".  It's about knowing when to and when NOT TO do something.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 31, 2007 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

well then
He's really good at the "doing nothing part". Hopefully he can make a push for a bat this off season, in the mean time looks like we're in a for a fun stretch run.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many teams?
Made any sort of move to bring guys in?  Two... the Braves and the BoSox.

by akathelorax on Jul 31, 2007 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right.
It doesn't appear to be easy. The offense is, and has been (for years now) abig bat away. Which ina  sense is a tribute to Bill that the team is that close. I think most GM's would love to be in the position Bill has put himself and the Angels in. He's pushed the bar up to the point that success is measured in Championships, something that as an Angel fan, we could have only dreamed of 5 years ago.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point. It's not like the Yankees or the
Marlins or the BoSox or the Diamondbacks or WhiteSox  or the Cards have more than 1 ring in the 21st Century.  
<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

tecnically the century began in 2001
with that said, it always makes me smile to think that the yankees don't have a championship in this millenium.

by Behind Enemy Lines on Jul 31, 2007 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's also perfectly fine
at doing things...when its right to do.  If you think Casey Kotchman, Joe Saunders, Ervin Santana, and a prospect for Mark Teixeira should have been done, I'll spend the rest of the season being thankful that you're not the GM, because that asking price is insane.

Name for me ONE decent trade, and list the players involved on both sides, that Stoneman could have made in recent memory that would have landed us a big bat, but he backed off from because he, and he alone, thought the asking price was too high.

I understand the frustration of not having the bat, but two things:

  1. It is not a massive failure on Stoneman's part that the bat is not here, without sacrificing a HUGE chunk of the future for it.
  2. The Angels are 6th in the Majors in runs scored, 3rd in batting average, 2nd in stolen bases...oh, and only 3 teams strike out less.  A little known fact about baseball is that you can score runs from things other than home runs.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jul 31, 2007 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is all great Casey
From the looks of it, you're right. I'm in agreement that the package for Tex was unwise and I  can't name you any trades that Bill hasn't made, though I'm sure there are numerous. He isn't a creative GM, he doesn't make in season trades, and because of that the Agels have the second best record in the AL. I don't hate him, I just wish he was more creative.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Creative like Cashman and Epstein?
Oh... here's $150 million.  Go get 1 starting pitcher.
<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, not like them
WEll, kinda like Epstein, or maybe Billy B.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your kidding about Billy B right?
I didn't know Billy B had WS rings as a GM.  Does he have any Pennants?  He managed the Choakies for 9 years before they even won a playoff series under him?


You're RIGHT! That's the dude Stoneman should model himself after.


Epstein has one ring and a team of owners who want to spend money like drunken sailors.  

<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was only
commenting on his creative way making trades, i.e, the three and four team deals he's pulled off in the past. Comparing the two GM's, BB, and BS, would be comparing apples to oranges.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Signing Kendall was creative.
Beane has also given away TONS of talent like Giambi and Dye.


At any rate what you're saying is that you can't name someone you like better than Stoneman.

<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hadn't realized that was your question
 BILL STONEMAN DOESN'T MAKE IN SEASON TRADES, thats what I'm trying to say. I'm going to go out on alimb and say that something could have been worked out, maybe not at this deadline but definitely over the past couple of years. The lack of power in the clubhouse has been an issue for some time now, an issue he hasn't addressed. Also, I don't know who's better than him. I think it's easier to point out the bad GM's then good ones. BY the way, pointing out one bad BB move does not make him a bad GM. the guys body of work stand for itself. If that makes me a moneyball apologist, than so be it.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theo Epstein is better than Stoneman
Although, not by much.

How bad can Man-Ram and Papi make you look? Not that bad.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by WeaverMania on Jul 31, 2007 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theo didn't sign ManRam. He was 2 years
too late.  Papi and Schilling were good.  Clement and Renteria were bad.  And he let OC go to get Renteria.  Also I think Coco sux.


With $150M payroll it's easier to look good.

<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He then traded Renteria for Andy Marte
Who was packaged to Cleveland for Coco Crisp, David Riske, and Josh Bard.

Considering that Crisp is playing well this season, I'd say he won that so far.

Look at what he's done. Drafted Dustin Pedroia. Traded for Mike Lowell and Josh Beckett. Signed Daisuke Matsuzaka. Traded for Curt Schilling by sending a bunch of losers to Arizona. Drafted Jonathan Papelbon. Signed Hideki Okajima. He also drafted Jacoby Ellsbury (who will be good) and Justin Masterson (who is already dominate at AA).

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by WeaverMania on Jul 31, 2007 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ZERO WS rings ZERO Pennants
Let's take it as a PACKAGE.  You're Arte.  Who do you hire?
<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Take what as a package?
Stoney had an extra 40 mil last year, couldn't beat out the A's. Not that make shim better, it depends on your criteria. Judging by what you saying, Brian Cashmen trumps them both. That sorta contradicts what you said earlier so maybe thats not what your saying.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh no... Cashman hasn't won a world series since
the 20th century.
<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A CRUCIAL Distinction
Beane has let people like Giambi, Tejada, Damon, etc. go BECAUSE HE HAS NO MONEY TO WORK WITH. The type of deals he's worked out are a testament to his ability to do good work with VERY limited funds. Gosh, imagine what he might do with Arte Moreno-level money. Call me an apologist if you wish, but it is what it is.

by Clutch on Jul 31, 2007 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hard not to agree with that
He's done more with less.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just have to point out
Beane didn't do any of the 3 things you just said he did.

by LosAngel on Jul 31, 2007 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

tough crowd
To say its not frustrating that Bill gets nothing done, again, would be ignorant. I think that the Salty/ Tex trade was borderline insane, but MR. Schuerholz realizes that his team is in a make or brake year, (which is not the position the Angels are in) and he went for it. Bill's done many things right, what he hasn't done is get creative and make  a significant deal. He simply hasn't added that extra piece, and one begins to wonder if his strategy isn't too conservative.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 4:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't get me wrong
I am disappointed, in the abstract, that they didn't acquire a bat; but the fact of the matter is that the Braves are the only ones who did, and Atlanta really did go for broke on this one.  It's been well-documented that the Angels were certainly deep into negotiations for Teixiera but decided the price was too steep.  People can debate that point until the cows come home, but the fact that they were involved in discussions certainly puts the lie to accuastions that Stoneman is unwilling to make a deal.  He was simply unwilling to make the deal that Texas demanded.

I will always wonder whether they made any inquiries about Piazza, and maybe they should have.

One can also wonder whether Stoneman has accurately assessed the team's strengths and weaknesses, particularly in regards to what upgrades might be available.

But look around the league.  Boston made a nice move in acquiring Gagne.  With Speier's return to health, though, the bullpen really wasn't a concern.

No starting pitchers of consequence changed teams.

And as I look around, I don't see anyone position players who changed hands (with the exception of Teixiera) who are better than the ones the Angels have at those positions.

There are 30 teams, and only one of them really improved its offense.  To the extent that Stoneman failed, so did 28 other GMs.

by jjackflash on Jul 31, 2007 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well put.

We seem to be existing in a time where dead line deals don't happen as frequently as they once did. Prospects are too valuable, and money to plentiful.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Not knowing" is the most frustrating.
We are left to invent our own heroes and villians out of rumors, many of which are the sum result of sports journalists (read that "scrubs") looking to make copy at deadline. Meh.

Who knows what really was possible or not? Certainly nobody here.

But I, for one, sure would like to know how much IMAGINATION went into the process. Did Stoneman take his rostor inventory to any teams we ddidn't hear about and try to turn them into sellers?

by Stirrups on Jul 31, 2007 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of the past three seasons...
this year's lack of a trade was the easiest to swallow for three reasons. (1) There are limited available players, (2) This offense is better than the offense of the last couple years, and (3) we have offensive players coming back from the DL ready to help. Napoli will provide some pop, Kendrick will be an upgrade when he's back, and Rivera will have an opportunity to pitch in down the stretch.

Plus, there are a couple players who will likely pass waivers. Piazza will probably be available, and even an August Tejada trade is a possibility.

I understand the frustration, and was even screaming at the TV this afternoon, but now it's time to watch our team win the division.

by iLoveLamp on Jul 31, 2007 5:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Methinks
Stonehands did OK by standing pat this year. Admittedly, some power would be awfully nice but there just wasn't much out there this year short of sending Willits, Figgins, GA, et al up to the Bay Area for some "personal training" involving "flaxseed oil".

Seriously though, what could Stoney do?
--Dye? Sucks too much for what he would have cost us in exchange.
--Piazza? Beane would have bent us over like a BALCO trainer. Piazza would have been a great fit but no way Beane trades him cheap in the division.
--Teixeira? Overrated really and a moderate upgrade on Kotch but worth four players, including possibly Howie or Wood or Adenhart? ... No way, man. Again, the Rangers tried to shaft us because of the division.
--Konerko? Dunn? See Dye above. Any of the above would have been bad trades.

About the only thing Stoney could have done that made a bit of sense was to pick up Ensberg, which the Padres did for less than a bag of sunflower seeds and we probably could have had for a bag of balls.

A bit disappointed? Sure. But not as much so as if realistic opportunities had been there to get players of the calibre of Alex Rodriguez, Miguel Cabrera or Miguel Tejada and we had failed to make a move.

I like our team. Let's light that thing up with what we have.

Don't call me Desmond

by highlandhalo on Jul 31, 2007 5:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My "Methinks"
There probably remains a seriously HUGE shockwave still ahead of all of us, concerning the price to be paid for impact players. I am still reeling over Soriano at 8 years for $136 million. Damn. And I recall all the screaming over the price of GMJ on the 2006 open market so I know I am not alone here. Looking ahead, Texiera is going to push +$20 million after 2008. Doubly damn. A-Rod for $30 million per season will be considered a bargain by then. Brace yourselves, because we need to be prepared for Vlad's money after next year.

Some how, some way, this kind of new reality (as opposed to the reality of a year ago and prior) is likely already being felt in the war rooms of each front office in MLB.

by Stirrups on Jul 31, 2007 5:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Brilliant Observation
People act like it is still recession 2001 prcies and forget the escalation in 2000 offseasn signing salaries ... it is back to that level this winter.

by Rev Halofan on Jul 31, 2007 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of Nolan Ryan
well bill the only way you can make a bad trade is to not make one at all.

Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi, from the Mets' side. Discuss.
Hoping Ervin Santana turns it around in Salt Lake. Go, Ervin!

by scareduck on Jul 31, 2007 6:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm mad at Stoneman
For not trading Lackey, Kotchman, Kendrick, Saunders, Weaver, and Anderson when other teams wanted them.

Damn him for helping us to a 670-568 (.541) record since he took over just before the 2000 season.

Damn him for getting us into the playoffs three times, twice in the ALCS, and a World Series title.

Damn him!

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by WeaverMania on Jul 31, 2007 7:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The point
Is NOT that we're not currently a contender. We are, and for that Stoneman is to be commended. That being said, however, the teams we are likely to be facing should we make it to the playoffs went out and made major offensive and defensive upgrades. We did not. They will have the advantage come October because Bill put all his eggs in one basket.

by Clutch on Jul 31, 2007 9:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Which teams?
Gagne Redsox.  That's about it.  Incidentally if you look at starting pitching, the Angels have the edge.  They'll need Gagne if we end up facing them.
<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Jul 31, 2007 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's ok
We all think he's doing a good job.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Atlanta
was the only team to upgrade offensively.

Boston was the only team to upgrade "defensively," in that it added a good reliever.  That said, I don't think Okajima/Gagne/Papelbon is necessarily better than Speier/Shields/Rodriguez.

Actually, on second thought, Atlanta added Dotel too, so now they technically have a closer besides Bob Wickman.  Yawn.

by jjackflash on Jul 31, 2007 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Preach on, wallispdub1!
Stoneman is a goober.

I was reading through this thread, and somebody gave Stoneman credit for signing Vladdy.

Uhhhh...

WHAT??

Like there was really baseball knowledge coming into play there.  All the credit there goes to Moreno for opening his purse strings.

by bc56274 on Jul 31, 2007 10:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

When someone
starts criticizing Stoneman for not spending money to sign free agents, it's damned well appropriate to point out that he signed Guerrero.

by jjackflash on Jul 31, 2007 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He isn't the one signing the checks.
Anyone given a blank check after the 2003 season, would have gone after Vladimir.

by bc56274 on Jul 31, 2007 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Red Herring
A poster going by the moniker "Halofanatic" accused Stoneman of not spending Arte's money on free agents.  It was an idiotic comment because it has no basis in fact.  I was the one who pointed out that he signed Guerrero, among others.  Therefore, when you say that it didn't take skill to offer the money, you completely missed the point, which was simply to refute the demonstrably false, factually inaccurate accusation by Halofanatic.

by jjackflash on Jul 31, 2007 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

its not the money he has a hard time leting go of.
I kinda think of him like my Grandma. SHe survived the depression, made some good business decisions, and now shes got some coin in her pocket. Only thing is, she refuses to spend any of it. She's got some crazy fear that somethings going to happen. Only Stonemans problem is with prospects. He's hording them between his mattress, scared to let to many of them go.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And most of his money lately spent has been shaky.
Although, Justin Speier has been pretty solid, same for Gary Matthews, though I'll be holding judgment for that.

Your grandma sounds like my grandpa.  We should set them up.

by bc56274 on Jul 31, 2007 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would quibble
with the "most" assessment, inasmuch as Stoneman has also spent money to lock up Escobar and Lackey to contract extensions at about fifty cents on the dollar.  But with Yan, Finley, Hillenbrand (and to a lesser extent Carrasco, because he did his job last year) you've got a point.  Of course, Hillenbrand doesn't happen if Juan Rivera's leg doesn't explode so I will cut him some slack on that one.

by jjackflash on Jul 31, 2007 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget tonight's losing pitcher.
I don't really hate Stoneman, I just think a monkey could do his job as efficiently.

Everyone here bashes Billy Beane (and rightfully so, he is with the enemy), but if we had him, and our owner, we would have multiple titles by now.

by bc56274 on Jul 31, 2007 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bullshit
You just don't know that. Beane had a great club and lost titles; partly because the great club he half-designed, half-inherited didn't have much balance, because of his hyper-emphasis on a couple of skills. Remember that Beane had a chance to GM the Red Sox and walked away, for reasons that just MAYBE had to do with the fact that with a real budget his act would suddenly look one helluva lot different.

by mattwelch on Jul 31, 2007 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

or
it was because he enjoys the challenge that being with the A's brings. Not mention he has daughter out here. Someone can look this up, but I think he gets paid a lot of dough.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

GM'ing the A's or the Red Sox?
Tough choice.

I guess having an unquestioned bank account, unlimited resources, the undying loyalty of fans, and tradition to back you up is too much to ask for. God, I would hate to build a team around Ramirez and Ortiz. It would certainly suck. Ramirez and Ortiz? Or, Crosby and Swisher? Shit, that's real tough.

In all honesty, the reason he didn't take the Red Sox job was because he thought the stress that the job carries would get to him. He'd be looked at too much through a microscope with everything he does.

You don't think the fans of Boston would have crucified him for his idiotic Ethier-for-Bradley swap?

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by WeaverMania on Jul 31, 2007 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats was a bad trade
But "honestly", your assumption that he was worried about the stress carries no weight. I got my info from "Moneyball" so maybe those (the money, and his daughter) were lies, masking some other issues he has.

by rjcicc on Jul 31, 2007 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure the money and his daughter played a role
But, the stress in Boston is a lot more than in Oakland.

Only certain GMs (Cashman, Epstein, Minaya) can put up with.

The reason? Because they make deals that help their team win, not mediocre deals that help their team stay the same.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by WeaverMania on Jul 31, 2007 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scoreboard.
At the end of the day you measure the worth of a team by wins and losses.  Angels are 1.5 games behind the best record in baseball and leading the AL West.


They're doing it at about a $35 million discount compared to the BoSox.


The Angels have the best record since summer 2006.  How many other teams have the best record since last summer.  None... None other teams...


If you want to do it by positions:


Kotch is hitting better than Ersty. Napoli is hitting better than Molina. The backup catcher than everyone thought was the titanic found his groove. Howie is hitting better than Kennedy, Willits was a surprise, HGH makes great catches even when he's in a slump, Chone is 5th in the MLB in batting avg.  7 of your starters are batting 290 or better.  Saunders and Moseley successfully substituted for Colon/Weaver/Santana.

 
Oakland is 13 games out of first. His teams have never gotten to the WS and only once have they gotten to the ALCS and his fattest acquisition in the past 4 years was Jason Kendall. On top of all that, the team closes off the 3rd deck of the stadium to save money because they can't fill the seats.


If you want to play what ifs. D-Mac doesn't go down, Colon doesn't go down, Mono doesn't go down, Santana gets traded for Tejada, Garrett doesn't go down, you've got a MUCH better looking team.  Unfortunately not everything in life is controllable.  That why baseball is interesting.

<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Aug 1, 2007 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stomer!
That's me combining "Stoneman" and "homer"...

That's you, sir, you are a Stomer.

by bc56274 on Jul 31, 2007 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beane
is a good GM, but he's made his share of questionable (at best) decisions, to wit:
Esteban Loiza.
Long-terming Eric Shuvez instead of Tejada.
Jason Kendall.
Trading Mark Teahen for Octavio Dotel.
Trading Jeremy Bonderman and Carlos Pena for basically Ted Lilly.

I think he's done a good job keeping the A's competitive on a budget, but his record is far from unblemished.

by jjackflash on Jul 31, 2007 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forgot
one of my favorites: proceeding upon the belief that there's no difference between pitching the 8th and 9th innings, he gave Arthur Rhodes something like $12 million to be their "closer."  That he managed to turn Rhodes (9/14 saves, 5.12 ERA) into Jason Kendall is a testament to his creativity.  But is trading in a Pinto for a Chevette something to be proud of?

by jjackflash on Aug 1, 2007 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm already tappin' that...
met her at Foxfire...
'86 never happened!

by Downing Rules on Aug 1, 2007 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's too late, baby, now it's too late
if you look at our history with GM's one is forced to look at Bill Bavasi in 78'. he thought that Nolan Ryan was not worth 1 mil.

That would be "Buzzie," and "'79," but other than that just about everything else you said was stupid. We've been the best team in baseball since Jered Weaver replaced Jeff, and given that there's a pile of younguns on the team, chances are good that we'll only get much better, AND be able to afford A-Rod next year, if it comes to that.

by mattwelch on Jul 31, 2007 11:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

this one's for JJACKFLASH......READ HER BUDDY BOY
First off my fellow halo brother, I haven't counted out those good years...he scored an A+ in my book. Although, from 2004 and on when they started letting go of some the guys with pop (i.e., Glaus, Guillen, Molina)this team started struggling greatly (remember the last two years and especially playoffs of 05?). This year It was expected of him to pick up a serious bat (about 35HR's+)with the advantage of deep pockets from Arte and couldn't get it done. Moreover, if you are gonna sit there and say, "we hit four hr's tonight. Who needs pop??", don't fool yourself because when the playoffs come around and you face good pitching, (and yes we have that) we need the offense to pressure equally as much the opposing pitchers (hence: yesterdays game Batista vs. Escobar). How many more wins would you say you could chalk up to Escobars career since he signed if he had signed with say the Red Sox or Yankees??? He'd probably have been voted for CY Young award the last two. This is a what have you done for me lately kind of sport so disregard when he signed Vlad and the rest of good acquisitions becuase with the amount of financial backing from Arte he should've delivered a big bat don't you think??? Seriously...ask yourself when was the last time you saw a world series team (whether they won or not) get to the big dance with only one guy that hit 30+ dingers???? I seriously don't think there has been one. Let's be honest...sure we have a good enough team to take the AL West, but is that how low we're setting the bar??? If so, then you're an idiot!
Final score: Angels 4 Giants 1 Angels 2002 World Series Champions!!!

by Halofanatic on Aug 1, 2007 1:33 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Cards, Stros, Tigers
Seriously...ask yourself when was the last time you saw a world series team (whether they won or not) get to the big dance with only one guy that hit 30+ dingers?
<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Aug 1, 2007 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh... And the Angels.
<img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:1HLD74VT6IN5TM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2002/10/30/gfiybQD5.jpg">

by melvintoast on Aug 1, 2007 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gibberish
You made a false statement.  Admit it.  Specifically, you stated that the Angels hadn't spent money in the offseasons, which is simply not true.  You can insist all day that 2+2=5, but it will never be true.  Instead, you changed the argument.

Clearly, you have no concept of logic or reasoned argument.

disregard when he signed Vlad and the rest of good acquisitions.

Disregard the facts when they're inconvenient to your argument?  Talk about intellectual dishonesty.

with the amount of financial backing from Arte he should've delivered a big bat don't you think???

FYI, there were no "big bats" available as free agents in the offseason last year.  Please explain how a team can sign free agents that don't exist.

In the 2005 offseason, the Angels offered Paul Konerko over 60 million dollars.  He took the same money from the White Sox instead.  In this country, you cannot legally force someone to work for you.  In other words, Paul Konerko had the right to say no to the Angels, which he did.  That is not Bill Stoneman's fault.  He could not force Konerko to accept the Angels' offer.  This might be difficult for someone with your obiviously limited brain capacity to handle, but you'll just have to trust me on this.

from 2004 and on when they started letting go of some the guys with pop (i.e., Glaus, Guillen, Molina)this team started struggling greatly (remember the last two years and especially playoffs of 05?)

I remember the playoffs of 2005.  The Angels made it to the ALCS, after beating the Yankees (a team loaded with sluggers) in five games.  Only one other team made it to the ALCS.  I didn't realize that being one of the final four teams constitutes "struggling," but OK.

Incidentally, you mention losing Guillen, while conveniently ignorning the fact that he was replaced by Juan Rivera.  From 2005-2006, Juan Rivera out-homered Guillen 38-33.  The only reason Guillen has caught up is because Juan Rivera broke his leg in December and hasn't played all year.  Don't you think the Halos' lineup would look a lot different with the 12-15 additional HR that Rivera would have provided this year if that hadn't occurred?

How many more wins would you say you could chalk up to Escobars career since he signed if he had signed with say the Red Sox or Yankees??? He'd probably have been voted for CY Young award the last two

Cy Young in 2005?  Really?  When he pitched only 59 2/3 innings?

In the future, before going off on a rant like this, you might want to make sure that your arguments actually are supported by these things called facts.  It's hardly a novel concept; try looking into it.

by jjackflash on Aug 1, 2007 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Peace, love and Angels baseball!
You just gotta love Halos Heaven!  yeeeee haaaaw!
'86 never happened!

by Downing Rules on Aug 1, 2007 2:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

don't argue with me you dope...
....don't act like you're right...look..pick up a god damn newspaper you clueless dude...what's the word on what the Angels' need/weakness is???? Are they saying that about the redsox, tigers, indians if they get in the playoffs???? Sure they have great pitching...sure stoneman picked up escobar, vlad, OC, GMJ, traded for Rivera...AAAAAAND???? Does that mean we're a complete team bird brain????....what's the main thing that all Angel fans have been anxiously waiting from stoneman to get??? (and i'm not talking via trade!) And please focus on the lack of pop this team has had ONLYYYYYYY FROM 2004-present. So what if in 2005 we beat the yanks??? look at their horrible pitching!! Did you thikn they would have made it past the sox, clev, cards??? And as for the teams you mentioned that made it to the big show (cards, stros, tigers), heres some advice...lay off the crack!!!..those teams all had atleast TWO SLUGGERS in their lineup...quit trying to prove me wrong crack head! YOU MY GOOD SIR...ARE A HOMER!
Final score: Angels 4 Giants 1 Angels 2002 World Series Champions!!!

by Halofanatic on Aug 1, 2007 4:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sober up
Are you capable of writing a complete sentence?

Once again, you completely ignore the numerous factual flaws in your previous post.  Unable to come to grips with that, you resort to insults, change the subject, and ignore the issues.

pick up a god damn newspaper you clueless dude...what's the word on what the Angels' need/weakness is????

I can pick up a newspaper.  Unlike you, I'm actually capable of not only reading it, but understanding it.

More to the point, what do newpspaper writers have to do with anything?

Who cares what a newspaper writer has to say about the team's strengths and weaknesses?

If your point is that other people think the team needs another slugger, so what?  That wasn't your original point, and it was not a point with which I ever took issue.  I suggest that you return to elementary school and work on your reading comprehension.

If you recall (and apparently you don't), you accused Bill Stoneman of not making any offseason moves to improve the ball club.  I pointed out how wrong you were.

You then argued that he made no attempt to address the team's lack of power through free agency.  I pointed out that this was factually incorrect, because they offered a contract to Paul Konerko.  I then pointed out that no other significant power hitters have come on the market as free agents since then.  You ignored this fact.  Rather, you attempted to disprove this fact through insults.  How mature.

Sure they have great pitching...sure stoneman picked up escobar, vlad, OC, GMJ, traded for Rivera...AAAAAAND???? Does that mean we're a complete team bird brain

Show me where I said they were.  You're trying to refute argments never made.  How clever.

And as for the teams you mentioned that made it to the big show (cards, stros, tigers), heres some advice...lay off the crack!!!..those teams all had atleast TWO SLUGGERS in their lineup

First, I wasn't the one who mentioned those teams; someone else beat me to it.

Moreover, you asserted as a fact that those teams had more than one guy with 35+ HR.  Your statement was false.  You try to dodge this fact by claiming that you only wrote that they had more than one undefined "slugger."  Go back and read the words you wrote.  You wrote that those teams had at least two players with 35+ HR.  Your statement was, and always will be, untrue.  You were proven wrong.  Once again, you can assert all day that 2+2=5, but it will never be true.

please focus on the lack of pop this team has had ONLYYYYYYY FROM 2004-present. So what if in 2005 we beat the yanks??? look at their horrible pitching!! Did you thikn they would have made it past the sox, clev, cards???

What do you mean by "focus on"?  What's your point?  You cannot escape that you made a series of statements, purporting to be facts, that are simply untrue.  I never said the Angels couldn't use another power bat.  That isn't the issue.  Rather, the issue (which you either don't understand or are choosing to ignore) is that you keep claiming that the Angels should have signed a power-hitting free agent, yet you fail to grasp the fact that a team cannot sign players that simply don't exist.  Who were these free agent hitters?  Was Stoneman supposed to go to steal some DNA from Albert Pujols or A-Rod, and go to some mad scientist and have them cloned?  How was he supposed to create that which does not exist?

by jjackflash on Aug 1, 2007 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pardon the interruption but....
We the Angel fans asked for a lot more wins than losses.  In that respect, Mr. Stoneman has delivered.  End.
Quit yer whinin' and START CHEERING!

by Downing Rules on Aug 2, 2007 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL....go get some treatment for your crack issues
the issue (which you either don't understand or are choosing to ignore) is that you keep claiming that the Angels should have signed a power-hitting free agent, yet you fail to grasp the fact that a team cannot sign players that simply don't exist.  Who were these free agent hitters?  Was Stoneman supposed to go to steal some DNA from Albert Pujols or A-Rod, and go to some mad scientist and have them cloned?  How was he supposed to create that which does not exist?.....

Are you serious..??? Their weren't any free agent sluggers??? ok...JACK....you win....you win...

Final score: Angels 4 Giants 1 Angels 2002 World Series Champions!!!

by Halofanatic on Aug 1, 2007 6:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes
I am completely serious.

Ff you can name someone besides Paul Konerko who was available in 2005, I'd love to know who it was.

In the 2006 off season, the Angels went after Alfonso Soriano.  They offered him over $100 million.  The Cubs gave him even more than that.  He was the only guy available.  How much more were they supposed to offer?

They did sign GMJr., who has provided 12 HR thus far (a lot more than the Angels got out of their CF last year, mind you).

There were rumors that the team wanted Aramis Ramirez.  Unfortunately, he never really became a free agent.  He re-signed with the Cubs.

I don't know who else they were supposed to try to sign.

Apparently, though, you do concede that these supposed players didn't actually exist, since you have been heretofore unable to name them.

But I'll keep checking here to see if you can actually come up with a name.

by jjackflash on Aug 1, 2007 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the movie "Twins" ...
they were able to create humans.  Why has Stoneman been sitting on his ass satisfied with Danny Devito clones, when he could have been using the Arnold Schwarzenegger clones?  Jeez!
Quit yer whinin' and START CHEERING!

by Downing Rules on Aug 2, 2007 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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