Santana or Saunders: TRADE BAIT?
by Rev Halofan
on Oct 18, 2008 12:17 AM PDT
in News
Two of our three All Star pitchers will be returning in 2009. That is, if one of them does not get traded.
Ervin Santana's 2009 salary will be determined thru arbitration if a contract is not forthcoming. Do the Angels lock him up now to a big-time package or do they ride each year out as he cruises to the 8-figure annual salary? Was 2008 a peak? We all know just how low his day-away game valleys go. Ervin turns 26 in January. He is a Capricorn.
Joe Saunders is still under club control for around league minimum and it would be easy to guess, let alone statistically prove, that he may have had a career year and that his value in what he could bring back to the club in a trade - that value may likely never be higher. Joe turns 28 in June. Like Bob Dylan and Miles Davis, he is a Gemini.
If one of these players is to be traded, who should it be, what should we get for him and why not the other guy as... TRADE BAIT?
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Keep them both and lock them up for a long time......
They are both good pitchers.
Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by acuda27 on Oct 18, 2008 1:17 AM PDT 0 recs
Both are too good for trade bait
"Halos Heaven All Time Saves Record Holder Genius Prognasticator."
by vlad IS my man on
Oct 18, 2008 8:19 AM PDT
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you know i like both of these guys
and the market is high on both of them. if we could steal away a big bat for one of these guys, i’d say go for it. then just pick up another pitcher on the fa wire. but i kinda like these guys, and it seems they are both developing into potential aces. itd be very nice to have potential aces 1,2,3 in your rotation. but again, the bat…if its there and it takes one of them…ok.
by linkbruin on Oct 18, 2008 1:48 AM PDT 0 recs
I cant imagine
not having both of them next year…
and I am a Gemini
and this past week I picked up Bob Dylan’s Oh Mercy and Knocked out
"i got 5ive on it"
by Funke5ive on Oct 18, 2008 2:26 AM PDT 0 recs
I'm not really sold
on Joe Saunders. He’s a smart pitcher but he doesn’t have the raw talent and the same stuff that Ervin does. He was great this year, don’t get me wrong but I still have a feeling that it was somewhat of a fluke. I’ll let 2009 unfold to see if I am right or wrong about that.
by Chzburger Jones on Oct 18, 2008 2:59 AM PDT 0 recs
Uh....
Saunders was hitting 94 consistently in the playoffs. His start was the best one in the playoffs as he wouldn’t have given up any runs if not for Howie and Torii. Yes Santana has better raw stuff but when people get compared to him in terms of raw stuff they are going to lose.
Saunders has some of the best stuff of any lefty starter in the league. In terms of fastball I’d only rank him behind Kazmir, Lester, Danks. And Saunders has two plus off speed offerings.
Saunders is starting to get more respect but for a guy that is 32-15 in his career, throws up to 95, has two good off speed pitches, was a first round draft pick, seems like a great teammate, always shows up huge after an Angels loss, hasn’t had the horrible body language of Santana, Weaver, or even Lackey early in his career, I have no idea why everyone doesn’t love Hokie Joe being an Angel.
by MH252525 on
Oct 18, 2008 8:41 AM PDT
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1 recs
This is gospel...amen!
Anyone who hasn’t been paying attention…Joe was arguably our best pitcher over the entire season!
Why he gets no respect is absolutely baffling to me!
Whodathunk we would be rooting for a former Ranger come August, er September, er October...? Miss ya Kotch, but Tex is THE man!
by K3YEROUT on
Oct 21, 2008 9:20 PM PDT
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his kidney stone got more play than him
i think he does get a lot of love here. there are just 2 very good pitchers in front of him. our 1-2-3 could all be 1’s at many other stops in the league, but were just lucky. if we can get a big bat for that, then thats not such a bad thing. doesnt mean no love, just awareness of value? i love joe and dont want to see him go for nothing, and he wont.
by linkbruin on
Oct 21, 2008 11:58 PM PDT
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If a gun was held to your head...
Who would you trade? If you absolutely had to!
by Jay Cal on Oct 18, 2008 6:41 AM PDT 0 recs
Now that's spirit
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Specializing in maniac-ball since 2000
by halofan4life on
Oct 18, 2008 12:18 PM PDT
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id trade saunders but only if it got us something really special
ie jake peavy, matt holliday etc. if youre not getting an elite superstar, no point in parting with either one of them
by ihearhowie2.0 on Oct 18, 2008 8:59 AM PDT 0 recs
Here, here!
I agree, if we are going to trade any of our starters, I think it should be Weaver. Or we could be Weaver in the bullpen and get another starter anyway, but I think Saunders and Santana should definitely be in our starting rotation for years to come!
by dprice413 on
Oct 18, 2008 10:05 AM PDT
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reminds me of last season
when everyone was DYING to trade santana or saunders but not weaver. funny how much 1 year makes a difference.
Personally, i think weaver is a better long term guy than saunders. Joe is great, but do you really(honestly) expect him to be that good every year?
the argument being that if some team was willing to make a trade based on his 2008 value, youd HAVE to consider it. If we could have traded figgins after 2007, it would have been brilliant right because his value plummeted after 2008. Same thing with saunders. what if he regresses back to his averages next year and we passed up an opportunity to cash in at his most peak value?
same goes with weaver. saying you WANT to trade him is pointless because his value is down and youd be selling low on a guy thats still young and be worth more to us than hed get in a trade
by ihearhowie2.0 on
Oct 18, 2008 10:13 AM PDT
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I like Saunders because he is a lefty...
I would try to hang on to all three of the young pitchers. They would form the cornerstone of a foundation for the team.
by waters96 on
Oct 18, 2008 10:16 AM PDT
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From my perspective
Saunders and Santana are pretty much the only guys I wouldn’t trade. However, everyone else, majors and minors, should be on the block.
by waters96 on Oct 18, 2008 10:14 AM PDT 0 recs
It all depends ...
on the deal. I would like to see them as part of the rotation for a number of years, and I agree that they, with this year’s performances, could be aces of a number of teams (providing they continue at this level). Them, plus Lackey and Weaver, no matter who we have as the fifth starter is a formidable rotation. (Who would have said that at the beginning of the year, when they were both fighting to be the fifth starter themselves).
All that said, if it takes one of them to land someone like Peavy, then I say it is still an upgrade, and one I would be willing to take. I, like others above, would rather move Weaver, but mostly because I was never blown away by him in his big year, and this year didn’t convince me he will stay at that level. He is a good starter, #2 or 3 on most teams, but rates #4 here, imho.
by matthiasstephan on Oct 18, 2008 10:35 AM PDT 0 recs
There are maybe 2 or 3
starting pitchers in the Major Leagues with Santana’s ability. The Halos have to give him at least one more year to continue progressing. He had such a solid year, with dominant performances, that he might just end up being that frontline guy that can go out and dominate a game 1 (love Lackey, but he’s all heart…he has to be perfect to perform well). Lock Santana up. He’s still young and his new swagger is going to be around for awhile.
As for Saunders, when I look around baseball right now I don’t see too many left-handed starting pitchers like him. Any good rotation needs one solid lefty. Saunders could be ours for years. With his velocity, he’s not thumbing it out there either, he’s winning because he’s got stuff. I say keep him.
Now, put Chris Pritchett at first, Bobby Rose at second, Pete Coachmen at third, and let's go win.
by GarretSaysSuckIt on Oct 18, 2008 11:04 AM PDT 0 recs
Trade the Joe Saunders for Ervin Santana
Then see if we can lock them up for a few years of free agency
If GA wasn't so Lazy, I'd have something clever here.
by TheTypingFiend on Oct 18, 2008 3:54 PM PDT 0 recs
unless somebody seriously tanks
we need to hold onto both of them.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Oct 18, 2008 8:55 PM PDT 0 recs
You have to keep Santana
His stuff is too good, he’s cheap, and I think he can eventually be more dominant than Lackey once he matures.
As for Saunders, part of me says keep him since he’s a solid lefty, cheap, and was great at Fenway in a must win game even though his line stat wasn’t great due to poor Halo defense. Another part of me is worried about his second half decline, low strikeout totals, and that in reality he is nothing more than a solid 4th starter with an ERA in the low 4.00s.
Since I am 50/50 on him, I say trade Saunders only if you can put him in a package to get a big bat at a position of need such as an Adrian Gonzalez (I can dream) to replace Teixera who I think is gone since the Yankees seemingly are going to go crazy in the offseason and try to acquire everyone they can. If you can’t get a big bat for Saunders in a trade, then I don’t see any reason to trade him even for Peavy since we need bats more than starters.
by stolenbases on Oct 19, 2008 1:40 AM PDT 0 recs
Trade neither
and sign more good pitching.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Oct 19, 2008 3:23 AM PDT 0 recs
Lock them up
If you can only get one, i say trade Santana.
by Skizoss25 on Oct 19, 2008 10:23 PM PDT 0 recs
Trade Lackey or Weaver before you trade either one of these guys...
end of story!
Whodathunk we would be rooting for a former Ranger come August, er September, er October...? Miss ya Kotch, but Tex is THE man!
by K3YEROUT on Oct 21, 2008 9:26 PM PDT 0 recs
Lock Joe Up!
I wouldn’t suggest trading either of them (especially Joe), and why would you.. and considering they shelled out 12 million for Garland in 08 the angels get them both at great values right now… likely with no Garland in 09 and Escobar coming back from injury and possibly going to the bullpen, i’d keep them both! There are plenty of free agents out there to get and if Garland, GA’s and possibly Krod salaries free’d up , that frees up some money to get a bat.
Why such little respect for Joe? All he did this year was lead the team in Wins and ERA, and represent the Angels well in the All Star game and Playoffs. He’s the only lefty in the rotation and he is consistent. Other than 2 bad starts in August, he was solid all year. He had a 2.14 ERA through 5 games in September. I believe he had something like 7 no decisions and the Angels ended up winning all but 1 of those games… and Joe was leading when he left most of those games, which could have put him over 20 wins for the season. Some argue he doesnt have the “raw talent” of Santana… not really a fare comparison. Santana is a strike out pitcher, Joe is a ground ball pitcher and relys on defense, but still has some pretty solid stuff, with a solid low 90’s fastball, and a couple sick off speed pitches… that change up is nice!
All i’m saying is when he puts up similiar numbers next year, they’ll be glad they held on to him!
by Saunders Fan on Nov 12, 2008 2:06 PM PST 0 recs
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