Squeeze Rant
Somebody please explain to me the "squeeze play" as a strategic move (in general).
I for one, have always HATED this play and think it has very limited place in the AL (except as a truly surprise move where the odds of contact are way up).
It's so all-or-nothing and if you don't want to get beat by it, pitchers can protect against it. I have always felt it's a "cute" play you do to surprise teams or to over-manage. It's a frickin' little league parlor trick. I have also always felt Sosh uses it way to much (like he likes to tinker because he can't play anymore).
Tonight, it was so predictable I was literally praying that Sosh would show some restraint and let Aybar swing.
Maybe I'm looking for some statistical justification, because to me, the all-or-nothing success percentages are worse than all the other variable possibilities that would also score a run.
I'll boo the play from now on, even it it works. Just swing like you've got a pair.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan and may or may not be a reflection of human evolution, divine enlightenment or nine cans into a 12-pack.
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Varitek saw that play coming from a mile away.
Recipient of the 2008 "The Iron Man" award from scottnak of Halos Heaven!
by 44FAN on Oct 6, 2008 9:41 PM PDT 0 recs
agreed.
sosh wanted to add to his pedigree as a “genius” and didn’t trust Aybar to hit the flyball. Two words Mike: Gene Mauch.
by Chris Knapp's Sac on Oct 6, 2008 9:55 PM PDT 0 recs
Agreed
And Aybar wasn’t gonna strike out or anything, not the way that Masterson was pitching. Take your chances and let him take a rip, even a bleeder through the infield would work. It was so painfully obvious that Varitek was trying to protect against the squeeze by pitching Aybar inside.
Resign Tex.
by 182 on Oct 6, 2008 10:03 PM PDT 0 recs
Delcarmen was pitching
infield in is a great thing when your hitter…….avg goes up almost a .100 points
Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee
by Angel Aviator on
Oct 6, 2008 10:05 PM PDT
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Bad play when hitter is left handed
allows Capitan Catcher to see it coming.
Better play is bunting it hard up the 3rd base line like a safety squeeze and seeing if the 3rd baseman pays attention to the runner at third.
As the third baseman comes in to field the ball the runner on 3rd shadows the 3rd baseman down the line. If 3rd baseman looks at runner a player with speed is safe if he looks and then throws to first you read ball out of hand and break home the 55 feet. Guy is safe always. SS is not in the play because he usually goes towards second (if SS goes to third then coach yells back)
With all that said though the Red Sox were not throwing a strike. You have a new pitcher, he hasn’t thrown a strike. They are jamming the shit out of him to get him to bunt it up or right back to the pitcher (96mph). Its not the play! Skipper forced it because the damn offense could not get anything done. Sometimes you have to let the players win or lose the game and not try to push so many buttons. Red Sox are a good defensive team and the advance scouts did a good job on the Angels.
Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee
by Angel Aviator on Oct 6, 2008 10:04 PM PDT 0 recs
As soon as I saw Willits going in, I KNEW what was coming.
If I can figure it out, ANYONE can. It was SOOO obvious what Scioscia was planning.
They totally lacked the element of surprise.
by ladybug on Oct 6, 2008 10:06 PM PDT 0 recs
When do ever see a squeeze runner make it back to third?
I never have.
by The Clyde on
Oct 6, 2008 10:10 PM PDT
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what happens if
lets say the play goes the other way
when reggie gets caught in the rundown, instead on going back to third he charges home and knocks tek down. tek tags him out but falls which causes the ball to pop out.
who calls him out then?
by UCIHalo on
Oct 6, 2008 10:11 PM PDT
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You like the odds on that possibility?
I’m not debating the questionable ump call (arguably, he was safe; objectively, I think he’s out).
I’m debating the odds of the “surprise-no-one squeeze” working versus letting the batter swing and putting all the pressure on the pitcher to execute his pitches.
by The Clyde on
Oct 6, 2008 10:22 PM PDT
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Too much to chance
It’s guessing. Guessing the next pitch is even bunt-able. Then executing. On one hopefully hittable pitch. Ball in the dirt, Pitch-out, runner is screwed.
Playing your ASS off all game and then leaving so much to chance. Taking all choice out of it.
by The Clyde on Oct 6, 2008 10:08 PM PDT 0 recs
yeah, this was a stupid move by the Soth.
i don’t understand why, but his managing gets beyond stupid either in extras or with the game on the line in the 9th.
in any case, it happened. this wasn’t out year. let’s ride out the offseason and see where we stand.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Oct 6, 2008 10:21 PM PDT 0 recs
The squeeze should be a surprise
I myself thought that they were going to walk Aybar to put the DP in order. My buddy thought it would be an intentional unitentional walk and thats exactly what it was. The bunt was made much more difficult because the Sox read it all the way and pitched around it. At the very least, on an 2-0 count, you let Aybar swing away to at least put some doubt in their minds.
by HungryHunter on Oct 6, 2008 10:57 PM PDT 0 recs
Aybar should have been swinging away IMO
Any advance scout can do a good just against the Angels because stubborn is the Soth’s middle name. At least he finally got GMJ out of the lineup, only took him the last game of the year to do that against lefties. GMJ should have never started this series, and Mathis starting makes Soth look like an undeniable moron.
by MH252525 on Oct 6, 2008 11:38 PM PDT 0 recs
THAT's why it's called the SUICIDE squeeze
I’m done.
by The Clyde on Oct 6, 2008 11:58 PM PDT 0 recs
I really didn't have that big of a problem with it
We all know with Aybar’s power that he would have been lucky to get a fly ball half way out of the outfield. He had not been hitting well AT ALL this series (save for the hit in game 3, but who’s to say he would have done THAT again) and so a squeeze play made sense with who was up. The only argument against it that I agree with is he was batting from the left side and gave the catcher a clear view of the runner. Other than that did everyone even see the pitch he was given. It was VERY buntable but what was with his weak ass flailing attempt. You learn to bunt properly when you are what, 8 years old? Aybar totally just swiped at the ball when he should have squared around, kept the barrel up high, and made sure to get the bat on the ball because that is his ONLY JOB. And who’s to say that a squeeze has to be surprising. Everyone in the house knows when Figgins or Ellsbury are going to steal a base but they get it done anyways. It’s all about executing the play properly which the players didn’t do. But then again that is the theme of this entire series.
by turs12 on Oct 7, 2008 1:46 AM PDT 0 recs
Arguing against the squeeze
Aybar had not struck out very much lately, so his ability to make contact was a plus. Twice last night he flew out deep enough to centerfield that a run would have scored. If you square around too early on a squeeze, the pitcher can adjust and put the bull in the opposite batters box. A squeeze play is dicey, especially in that moment. A squeeze play with a LEFT handed batter brings that suicide part so much more to the front that you have to be either crazy or full of ego to go for it, and I don’t think Sosh is crazy.
What I woulfd have done:
If I leave Aybar in the game, he’s swinging away no doubt about it. With Willit’s speed a half decent flyball is good enough to get that guy home (let’s not forget his scoring from second on a groundout to short).
If I am going for the squeeze, Aybar is sitting the bench and it’s the only time in this series that I want Mathis to see that batter’s box. Because for as much as we can’t stand him, he is an awesome bunter. And having that right handed bat up for a squeeze is more than ideal. Then I bring in Wood as a defensive replacement at short. Then, if the game goes into extras, IMO we have a more than capable bat in that spot, WITH POP.
It’s one thing when everyone knows that someone is gonna steal, that can be hard to control. But when a catcher as good as Varitex (behind the plate) knows when a trick play is on, you can bet your ass that he knows exactly where his pitcher needs to put it and you could tell from PITCH ONE of that at bat when Delcarmen brought that fastball high and tight that they knew what was up.
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Specializing in maniac-ball since 2000
by halofan4life on
Oct 7, 2008 9:46 AM PDT
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Neutral M's fan here.
M’s fans generally dislike both the Angels and the Red Sox, so I think I can be objective.
I think the squeeze was a good call. Aybar had 12 bunt singles during the season, so you know he’s a good bunter, and he’s not a very good hitter otherwise, so it’s not like letting him swing is a good option generally. The success or failure of a suicide squeeze rests entirely on whether you get that bunt down, and against a good fastball pitcher it was almost certainly your best shot at scoring there.
Scoscia made, I think, a good decision. It just didn’t work out. Some good decisions don’t.
I know HH is usually all about results-based analysis, but in this case look at Scoscia’s options. Letting Aybar swing produces predictable results, and they’re not good. He had a vastly better chance of getting that bunt down than hitting a single.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Oct 7, 2008 7:02 AM PDT 0 recs
Single not needed
Fly ball to the OF scores a speedy Willits (only plus tool he has). Infield playing in raises his avg by almost a .100 points. Counts 2-0 and they are jamming the shit out of Aybar with no care in the world if they walk him to set up a possible double play. Throwing inside also allows the pitcher to miss in and hit batter should he see/hear squeeze.
Its a bad call based on the fact Aybar is not a sac guy and those 12 bunt base hits are bunts for hits. If you watch him as much as HH does then you know his MO on a bunt is to bunt it to 2nd and run. He tried to push/drag when all he had to do was put it in play or at the very least make some sort of contact.
I am sure glad that Wood was on the roster and Q. Brilliant use of those 2 guys.
Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee
by Angel Aviator on
Oct 7, 2008 7:58 AM PDT
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My man, you "get" it
it was a wrong move in the situation. Aybar’s inability to execute the bunt doesn’t bother me as much as Sosha’s failure to check his ego.
Also doesn’t surprise me that Mariner fan would have squeezed.
by The Clyde on
Oct 7, 2008 8:41 AM PDT
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And if you want statistical justification for the squeeze
Lookout Landing has you covered.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Oct 7, 2008 7:04 AM PDT 0 recs
oh really!??!
cause I thought it was a great call! Everything up to that point was executed perfectly. Morales’ double, Willits pinch running. Howie’s sac bunt.
Aybar missed the bunt, that’s all there is to it. He’s the best bunter on the team, by the way. Who cares if Varitek saw it. It was the perfect situation to do it. 2-0 count. Delcarmen has to come in the zone with it. Aybar just missed the bunt. Honestly, I thought it was a good call. Willits did everything right, Aybar barely missed the bunt. That’s all.
Napoli-an Dynamite
Beat the Red Sux, stop blaming GMJ
by hk47 on Oct 7, 2008 7:37 AM PDT 0 recs
Doesn't have to come in with a strike as illustrated by the pitch
They did not care if they walked him right there as it set up the double play and moved the middle of the infield back into double play depth.
Best bunter for a hit on the team other then maybe Maicer Izturis! Not so sure I saw Aybar squeeze all year but I know I saw Wood do it late in the season for the insurance run after they had taken the lead late. Squeeze is a great play for the extra run not always the best way to get the go ahead run.
Either way HK should not have been on the field for game 3 and 4. That decision was more costly.
Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee
by Angel Aviator on
Oct 7, 2008 8:04 AM PDT
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Aybar didn't need a single
just put the ball in play, with the infield in. I think the odds swing in the batter’s favor, unless you’re a big strike out guy
Stealing bases or putting a ball in play require the other team to execute and there’s probability they don’t.
by The Clyde on Oct 7, 2008 7:50 AM PDT 0 recs
Bunting that pitch was easier than hitting it...
and sending the runner just about guarantees a run with contact. Everything was set up that way with the double and sac bunt. I have no idea why people think it makes a difference that Varitek knew it was coming or could see the runner better with a left handed hitter.
Its Angel baseball, its what got us here, it was what was going to win it for us, and I expect nothing to change in the playoffs.
by Wytelitning on Oct 7, 2008 9:25 AM PDT 0 recs
I don't understand all the second guessing of the squeeze call
The Angels have been using this play to perfection all season. Even if Varitek “knew it was coming,” he was not the reason that it didn’t work. Aybar has to get the bat on the ball in that situtation. If Aybar puts that ball in play, Sciossia is a genius, and we are getting ready to put the Chowds away in game 5.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
PS: Izturis would have executed that play.
by Ajax on Oct 7, 2008 9:57 AM PDT 0 recs
That's the problem: Our sword is a tired, predictable, antiquated act.
by snowhor on
Oct 7, 2008 10:03 AM PDT
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Liike I said...
…Izturis gets the ball down and Sciossia is a genius. That’s all there is to it.
by Ajax on
Oct 7, 2008 10:06 AM PDT
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Sosh a genius...
is exactly what I think he was trying to prove.
by The Clyde on
Oct 7, 2008 5:28 PM PDT
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but
it makes more sense when you’re at home. Why risk your season on such a high risk proposition? Go for the fly ball. Everyone knew what Scoscia was going to do. It was a foregone conclusion that the Sox would score after that.
by Chris Knapp's Sac on
Oct 7, 2008 10:14 AM PDT
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"Everyone knew Scioscia was going to do it"
I keep hearing this but I don’t understand what that means. Someone please explain it to me. What did Boston do to counter this “known” move. I’m not being a smart ass, I would love to agree with you guys but I seriously have no idea how this made a difference.
by Wytelitning on
Oct 7, 2008 11:44 AM PDT
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They didn't do anything
It doesn’t matter if they “knew it was coming.”
I’m sure the media will tell you that it was the genius of Varitek that called for a special pitch that avoided Aybar’s bat, but we know better. Aybar didn’t execute and we lost.
If they really “knew it was coming” they would have ptiched out or threw right at Aybar.
by Ajax on
Oct 7, 2008 11:51 AM PDT
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Thank you
Been around this game for a while and that is precisely what I saw too. I feel like there are just some frustrated people around here looking for blame outside of simple execution.
by Wytelitning on
Oct 7, 2008 12:00 PM PDT
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The thing is
So many reason why you don’t squeeze right there then there is for squeezing.
Left handed hitter allows for the catcher to see the play developing.
No obstruction at all by the hitter is available.
Pitching out puts the catcher in the line for the tag.
Infield is playing in to cut off the run (hitters avg goes up dramatically in this situation).
There was no element of surprise with a squeeze (always helps) BoSox ready for it
New pitcher had not thrown 1 strike
Appeared that the BoSox were fine with walking Aybar
2-0 pitch and you think he is getting a fastball strike swing away
Your not the home team and it isn’t for the win just the lead
Failure leads to momentum change
Still have 2 shots to get him home from 3rd 9 different ways
Pressure is on the pitcher more then the hitter to produce
Like I said so many reasons to let the players dictate the outcome and not try to be a button pushing micromanaging manager
Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee
by Angel Aviator on
Oct 7, 2008 12:20 PM PDT
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Well said
Pressure is a great point. It put 99% of the pressure on the batter. Make the pitcher execute under pressure. Make the fielders execute under pressure. That’s Angel’s baseball.
When Frankie blows a save (e.g., JD Drew homer), I get over it because it’s our best shot and he’s competing, forcing their batter to perform under pressure to beat him. If he does, tip your hat.
I’m so pissed because I feel cheated. Soch let Boston of the hook.
by The Clyde on Oct 7, 2008 5:25 PM PDT 0 recs















