Angels to hold off on Tex...for now
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 11, 2008 9:32 AM PST
104 comments
According to MLBtraderumors, the Angels will NOT make a formal offer to free agent 1st baseman Mark Teixeira during their exclusive negotiating period. This goes against their usual philosophy of getting things done quickly but they know it's useless since Scott Boras wants his clients to test the market no matter what. By not making a formal offer, Boras will not be able to take it to other clubs and drive up the price.
What do you guys think? I honestly never thought about it that way but now that it's been brought to my attention, I think it's a good move. That way when the media showcases the Tex war between Boston and New York, Ninja Reagins can chill at Del Taco and sign Tex while chowing down on a burrito or something.
Tex: "Wha???? 10 years for only 20 million??? Are you kidding me?"
Ninja: "Oops, sorry. I spilled some sauce over that second zero."
Tex: "OOOOOOOH. 10 years, 200 mill. Now THAT'S more like it!"
*Signs contract*
*ESPN cries like an emo kid when they find out Tex is staying out west*
*Halos win 2009 World Series*
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
4 recs |
104 comments
Email
Print
Comments
i enjoyed the dialogue
but yeah, i think it’s a great move by The Ninja. for those who were worried about Reagins taking over… i think those thoughts are long gone. this guy knows what he’s doing.
i still think we sign him before Thanksgiving.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 11, 2008 9:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
i think he might want 210 mil for 10
"Halos Heaven All Time Saves Record Holder Genius Prognasticator."
by vlad IS my man on Nov 13, 2008 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a much more solid strategy than what was previously reported.
Teixeira............Everything else can wait.
by hauldog on Nov 11, 2008 9:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
This is what I figured was happening when all the reports about going after Tex indicated that no offer had been made yet.
There’s no point to make an offer with a short window for them to accept, deny or negotiate if they haven’t been allowed to talk with other teams yet.
by snowhor on Nov 11, 2008 9:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd for the dialogue.
And a pending rec for Ninja if this plan works.
Scioscia - He provides to unlike method of your team member.
by Rally Manatee on Nov 11, 2008 10:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping against hope...
…that numbers were being discussed all along. I was really hoping that he fell in love with OC, the beach, and the organization and would just get it done.
Tex is going to be making $20-$25m per year for 6-8 years when is all said and done. I assume that our offer will be in that range.
by Ajax on Nov 11, 2008 11:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
While I feel that we shouldn't do a "whatever it takes contract" with any player...
I have to admit Teixeira is someone I would REALLY. REALLY, want even if we have to overpay for him. I really think that Kendry Morales is not going to be anywhere near the player Teixeira is (I’ll wait for the acuda mud slinging). Lets be honest, at Kendry’s age Tex hit 43 homeruns in the Majors.
Looking at the baseball reference pages for Tex, the most comparable players to him at his age are:
Carlos Delgado, Kent Hrbek, Fred McGriff, Jim Thome, Will Clark, Jeff Bagwell, Willie McCovey, Richie Sexson, Shawn Green, and Paul Konerko.
Not a Hall of Fame list, but a very decent one for sure. I’d be more than ok overpaying for Tex. We got heisted for GMJ, overpaid for Torii, so why not throw some extra money at Tex, because out of them three, he is most deserving of it.
Pony up Arte!
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
by Angel Hawker on Nov 11, 2008 12:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed completely.
There is no way the Angels can justify overpaying HGH Jr. and Torii but not overpaying for Tex. Though, HGH Jr. was Stoneman’s mistake, not Ninja’s.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 11, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
why
are we going to overpay for a player. if he doesn’t want to be here then let him go. all the money in the world isn’t going to make a player like that happy if his heart is in the east coast. again he never made the the Braves team better, and he never made the Angels team better. go ahead and throw in the stats, but stats don’t mean anything if you don’t go anywhere with them. we lost to the Redsox in ‘07 without Tex, we lost to the Redsox in ’08 with Tex. so Tex isn’t the answer. he’s only 1 player.
by HALO_86 on Nov 11, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
tex's heart is in greenland
And by green I mean cash. He’ll be happy wherever the top dollar is.
As for him not making us a better team, I think that is not at all true. Along your line of logic, since we won one of the games in the post season, we actually were a better team than 07. That doesn’t justify overpaying him for the next 5-100 years (or whatever the exorbitant contract length is), but any WS we win in the next several years would.
Additionally, with other rumored personnel changes, it could very well come together in 09 with Tex at the hub of it all.
Keep in mind, I don't know wtf i'm talking about.
by tdischino on Nov 11, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
its extreme
logic. i know. all i am saying is we as fans sometimes think 1 player is going to make the diff. when its a team effort. theres some luck involved. Tex was supposed to be that diff maker this yr. to all of sudden pay a guy all that money can hurt a franchise in the long run. we also went into the ’07 playoffs with alot of injuries. no excuses because the Redsox spanked us this yr with their injuries. how many of these big FA signings produced a WS recently?
by HALO_86 on Nov 11, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually agree with you for the most part
All the talk for the past several years about “that one big bat” that would put us over the top, to protect Valddy, I never got it. I always thought the smallball scraptastic mode was the way to go.
But I like Tex. His personality isn’t anything exceptional (he’s no TH), but on the flipside of that coin, he isn’t Manny either (phew). He seems to just want to play his heart out, and I really, REALLY like that. That is why I hope to Dog that we sign the guy, but i’m not confident we will (because that would just be too easy for us as fans, to get what we want from time to time).
Keep in mind, I don't know wtf i'm talking about.
by tdischino on Nov 11, 2008 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The reason why we will overpay for a player is...
because they will play on our team.
By your logic we should let the Red Sox get Teixeira because if he is on their team they will lose to us next year, right?
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
by Angel Hawker on Nov 11, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thats not what i'm saying
i’m only speaking on the Angels. most of us thought Tex was the final piece right? i thought so. i thought it was a perfect trade for us. that big bat we’ve been missing for awhile. who knows maybe it could have been Guillen in ‘04 if he didn’t self destruct. all i’m saying is that there is only soo much money the Angels are going to spend. if we end up spending too much on 1 player and not win, then were financially stuck. Tigers were suppose to be offensive power and hit there way to a WS. it didn’t happen and now there stuck with a payroll without too much flexibility.
by HALO_86 on Nov 11, 2008 6:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Payroll
is not my concern. Arte Moreno is the only one who needs to worry about it. I want to see the best possible team, and that team includes Teixeira.
Mark Teixeira was the best player on the 2008 Angels, and he would be the best player on the 2009 squad. Of course, countless other factors conspire to determine who plays in the World Series, but the goal is to give your team the best possible chance to get there in the first place. There are few guarantees in life, but the Angels with Teixeira have a much better chance of getting there than they do without him, and a better chance of winning if they do get there.
They are not guaranteed to win with him, nor are they guaranteed to lose without him. It’s all about giving oneself the best chance one can, and no reasonable person can claim that they have a better chance without Teix.
by jjackflash on Nov 11, 2008 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
in all the yrs Teix has been in the MLB i don’t think anyone really missed him in the WS. yeah would it be great to have him on the team? of course. at any cost? no. no player is worth that. A-Rod should be your example. again we finished basically in the same position in ’08 as we did in ’07. so if Teix only helps us win 1 game in the ALDS then i would rather spend the money on someone else that might help us win more then 1 game in the playoffs.
by HALO_86 on Nov 11, 2008 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
if Teix doesn’t happen, i would wait on a bat. trade if you can find a solid bat with 1-2 yrs left on a contract that will not cost us more then 2 players like the Teix deal. i would just sign a pitcher and go 5 deep in the rotation. good pitching and defense will always keep you in the game. Bats are easier to find then arms. theres always going to be bats at the trade deadline if you can’t find one in the FA market.
by HALO_86 on Nov 12, 2008 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
remember game one
good pitching did not save us there
Watching the Halos from Princeton University. The random Halo fan in a sea of Bosux and Skankee fans.
by princeton11loveshalos on Nov 13, 2008 12:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
With ticket prices rising, payroll IS our concern.
This isn’t just a hobby for Arte, it’s a business.
Keep in mind, I don't know wtf i'm talking about.
by tdischino on Nov 12, 2008 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Redsox
i have no idea why they didn’t win this yr. i don’t follow them close enough. maybe they did really miss Manny’s bat. who knows. i’m just talking about the Angels. thats it.
by HALO_86 on Nov 11, 2008 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Injuries, mostly.
Mike Lowell was a major loss, and his lineup replacement (Kotsay) wasn’t hitting; Varitek and Ellsbury were also dead weight. Ortiz was comparatively toothless. Beckett was pitching through severe pain and had diminished velocity. Moreover, Francona badly mismanaged game 2 of the ALCS, leaving the weakened Beckett in far too long, and squandering a significant lead.
Nevertheless, we were within one game of victory and almost certain conquest of the Philadephia Phillies of Poor Pitching after Cole Hamels. The Rays choked in that series, abetted by their awful manager.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 12, 2008 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
are you serious?
Rays were clearly the better team. Maddon didn’t pull Kazmir in Game 5 it would have been over before you could have gotten to Game 7. Redsox were weak going into the the playoffs in ‘08. Bay just couldn’t do what Manny did for you guys.
by HALO_86 on Nov 13, 2008 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
over paying
is only good if we eventually win the whole thing.
by HALO_86 on Nov 11, 2008 6:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was the only player on your team that performed in the playoffs
Your analysis is absurd.
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Nov 12, 2008 7:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
your right
but u know hitting a bunch of singles isn’t what i expected from the 3 hole.
by HALO_86 on Nov 13, 2008 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If the guys in front of you don't get on base, pitchers won't give you much to hit.
The fact that Tex did so well batting often with the bases empty speaks volumes to his ability to hit. Yes, there weren’t many extra base hits. Maybe if GA knew how to get on base in front of him, pitchers wouldn’t have been able to be so careful pitching to Tex.
by snowhor on Nov 13, 2008 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Teix
first i thought he was suppose to make hitters around him better. i’m not going to dispute that he’s a good hitter. i’m only saying why should we overpay for a hitter? 1 player isn’t going to make the diff. this past yr showed us that. its about having the best all around team. 1-9 in the order. giving 1 guy 1/5 of the payroll isn’t going to keep the team strong.
by HALO_86 on Nov 13, 2008 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That was a common misconception about needing a big bat to protect Vladdy.
You give a player more protection by having runners on base. Look how much Vlad thrived at having Tex in front of him.
Agree with you on the 1-9 comment, which is why guys like GA, Aybar, Mathis, GMJ to name a few shouldn’t be regulars. Their salaries hurt us more than (GA & GMJ) than Tex’s will. Of course there is a point where too much is too much for Tex, but the real problem is paying top dollar for non-talent.
by snowhor on Nov 13, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Please explain this
“GA, Aybar, Mathis, GMJ to name a few shouldn’t be regulars.”
by Seik1177 on Nov 13, 2008 11:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Mathis can’t hit and can’t defend. So he shouldn’t be a regular.
GMJ couldn’t hit this year. Probably because of his injury. But if his performance is to remain exactly the same next year as it was this year, then he shouldn’t be a regular.
GA and Aybar I’d give a little more leeway to because GA just takes a bit of time to really warm up, and Aybar is young and improves his hitting every year, not to mention the glove.
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Nov 14, 2008 12:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well at least that was a well thought out statement
my main exception to the statement was the GA & Aybar part.
While I can’t defend Mathis production, I believe he is better than he has played. GMJ I’m still hoping he gets back to the way he was for the 1st part of 2007.
by Seik1177 on Nov 14, 2008 12:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
GA & Aybar
GA can’t hit lefties (.290/.333/.371).
Aybar can’t hit (.277/.314/..384).
I thought we all already knew this.
by snowhor on Nov 14, 2008 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So your telling me
GA’s .290 avg against lefties means he can’t hit them & a .277 overall avg for Aybar (in his 2nd season) means he can’t hit.
GA in the 2 spot for 90 ab’s against r/l .344/.372 /467/.839 I’d say that pretty good
GA in the 6 spot for 175 ab’s against r/l .337/.366/.554/.920 again I’d say those numbers work
Aybar hit .280 or better 4 of 6 months, IMO that seems like he can hit.
They may not hit for power but that doesn’t mean they can’t hit
by Seik1177 on Nov 14, 2008 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to focus on BA, then you must have loved our offense this year.
by snowhor on Nov 14, 2008 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BA is based on hits
last time I checked
by Seik1177 on Nov 14, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, one more point to make
GA sucked when no one was on-base
322 AB’s resulted in a .242/.272/.348/.620
With Runners on-base
235 AB’s resulted in a .362/.395/.549/.944
by Seik1177 on Nov 14, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then it's a good thing that those at-bats don't count, huh?
by snowhor on Nov 14, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Again
This was about your point that these guys can’t hit. You wanna make a blanket statement expect some rebuttles.
by Seik1177 on Nov 14, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I do expect rebuttles. But I have no interest in debating BA versus OBP and SLG.
You’ll stick to BA, I’ll stick to OBP/SLG and we agree to disagree. Just trying to save time.
As for GA with runners on versus off, are you saying he is mentally deficient that he can’t hit unless motivated by having runners on base? Or is he just selfishly looking for RBIs while not caring about being driven-in?
And wow, he was God-awful with no one on. I can’t think of a better performer for the #2 hole.
by snowhor on Nov 14, 2008 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Refer to post above for GA's stats
in the 2 spot.
by Seik1177 on Nov 14, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I don't rate those 90 at-bats higher than the 322 at-bats he blew with bases empty.
by snowhor on Nov 14, 2008 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So the fact that he performed
at a pretty good clip in a specific batting spot you pointed out means absolutely nothing?
I see this is a worthless debate.
by Seik1177 on Nov 14, 2008 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It was a fluke that he won't replicate over a whole season.
You believe he magically became a better hitter because he switched places in the lineup?
I too see this as a worthless debate.
by snowhor on Nov 14, 2008 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think what snowhor means is that
their OBP’s were abysmal given their respectable BA’s and they couldn’t hit for power. You’d expect a sub .400 SLG% from Aybar but not GA.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 14, 2008 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mathis
i think you shouldn’t give up on Mathis. yeah i know his stat line. i just think the C spot you need more defense then hitting. Nap proved he needs to be give the chance to play everyday, but his D isn’t that good compared to Mathis. if Nap fails to overproduce to overcome his D, then Mathis should get another shot.
by HALO_86 on Nov 14, 2008 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why does everyone think Mathis is such a great defender?
He throws the ball all over the field!
He led the MAJOR LEAGUES in erros last year.
Mathis 13
Napoli 3
Then you compare the offensive contributions and it’s a no brainer. Mathis sucks.
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
by Angel Hawker on Nov 15, 2008 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
1 yr
its not he’s been doing that his whole career. 1 season.
by HALO_86 on Nov 15, 2008 12:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fielding Percentage
Over his career is .984
Last year was .981
Career minor leagues = .988, which is ok, but not outstanding my any means.
14 errors in AA in 2004 as well. Seems like quite a track record.
Oh, and he has a career batting average in the majors of .195 and hasn’t had a good offensive season at any level since 2005.
But at least he’s “athletic.”
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
by Angel Hawker on Nov 15, 2008 12:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mathis
throwing errors can be corrected. thats all i can say. time will only tell. i still think Mathis is a talent behind the plate. but obviously Nap is our starter i’m not disputing that. he deserves it with the way he finished. i’m still a fan of Mathis. i think he can play at this level but he needs his AB and games. if not with the Angels with another club.
by HALO_86 on Nov 15, 2008 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Scioscia?
Is that you?
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Nov 15, 2008 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're clearly not Sosh.
In the third sentence you identified Naps as our starting catcher and we all know that Sosh would never do that.
by snowhor on Nov 15, 2008 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Vlad had an identical batting average
Even hit an XBH
Teixeira............Everything else can wait.
by hauldog on Nov 13, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Vlad
was already on the team. Teix was additional piece to take us over. it didn’t happen.
by HALO_86 on Nov 13, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is irrelevant
He said"He was the only player on your team that performed in the playoffs"
I called bullshit
Teixeira............Everything else can wait.
by hauldog on Nov 13, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Makes Sense
Not to give Boras a number to wave at the East Coast clubs is smart.
by Kernel on Nov 11, 2008 1:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
really?
you think no club on the east coast is just going to throw out a contract. once 1 club does then the bidding takes off. so either way unless the Angels are going to outbid the NYY, NATS, Orioles. they should have just gave him a take it or leave it offer. not a low bid offer. the best offer Arte wants to give him. if he’s afraid of overbidding then i see how we should wait but i think the Angels have an idea of how much they want to spend. i think either way Boras will come back to the Angels just so he can get the highest offer even if we give him an initial take it or leave it offer. why mess around. we do have other deals we need to make to finish the offseason.
by HALO_86 on Nov 11, 2008 1:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd indeed.
Love this post. So great.
It seems like a good move by Reagins but Im stll a bit confused. To me, this strategy means we are willing to pay him more than anyone else, right? The idea is that the Sux and the Yanks are fighting for him and then we swoop in with a bigger offer than both of them and he signs with us? To me, I think Reagins is also seeing if its worth signing him by seeing how high the other clubs are willing to go and then deciding from there. Tex is clutch but I’m not sold that we should break the bank over him.
On the other hand, something tell me the Ninja said, “Where not going to offer you anything right now.” then jotted down a number on a napkin…winked at boras and handed it over to him with a couple of free season ticket seats for his friends. Im sure Boras and Tex have some sort of indication of what the Angels are going to offer.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Nov 11, 2008 1:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
does anyone else feel like manny is plan B
and nobody is talking about it
by ihearhowie2.0 on Nov 11, 2008 4:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I kind of feel like CC is plan B...
with AJ perhaps as well (fingers crossed).
Lackey
CC
AJ
Ervin
Saunders
I honestly wouldn’t care who we had in the field at that point. Kendry at first, B-Wood at third and Figgy in Left.
by Wytelitning on Nov 11, 2008 4:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If AJ comes to our team...
he’s going to have to either change his initials or go by one of his names.
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
by Angel Hawker on Nov 11, 2008 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We should go after AJ
just because for his career, he PWNS the Red Sox.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 12, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
Good point. Maybe we could pay him to be healthy when the Red Sox are in town and when we are in Boston. He can then pull a Vladimir Radmanovic (for any of you Laker fans0 and get in a snowboarding accent by permission of the Halos since we will go on the DL anyways. Or he can cut his pitching fingers on a bench, a la Jered Weaver.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 16, 2008 12:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how exactly does one acquire
a snowboarding accent?
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 16, 2008 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i knew what you meant
somebody had to be a douchebag… usually it’s cupie when it comes to typos.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 16, 2008 8:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude,
One has to get like, totally stoned on weed, and then you’ll naturally talk with a snowboarding accent!
Gnarly!!!
Angels fan since '67
by red floyd on Nov 16, 2008 6:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
got it.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 16, 2008 8:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see Manny in the Big A next season.
Not that I’m opposed to the idea but I just feel that the Halos will re-sign GA to something in the neighborhood of 14 million over 2 years. My hunch tells me that the Halos will give him that contract due to his loyalty to the organization and for sentimental reasons. That being said, there won’t be any room for Manny unless we unload Gary No-thank-ews, let Rivera walk, and get GA to accept a backup role.
On a somewhat related note, does anybody else feel that GA would be a good fit for the Rays? He could be their 2009 Cliff Floyd. A veteran, left-handed, platoon DH who unlike Floyd, can still play an adequate outfield. Though GA isn’t the outspoken leader that Floyd is.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 11, 2008 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
probably the most logical GA team
if he were to fall into FA, with maddon/percival there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlTvSUCCqPo
by ANewFoundThrice on Nov 17, 2008 7:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I got an idea...
If Teix doesn’t re-sign, sign Sabathia and have him DH on his off days.
Just kidding….kinda.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
by WiHaloFan on Nov 12, 2008 5:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Love this move
It is such a smart and makes me feel like he get one step up on Boras. On the other hand, did anyone see what Boras said about the Dodgers signing Manny? It was something to the effect of “we are going to be taking serious offers starting this Friday” in response to the Dodgers 3yr/$60mil offer.
by turs12 on Nov 12, 2008 7:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling that
Ned Colletti is going to F this up and fail to re-sign Manny and then he’s going to sign Nomar to a 5 year deal to play 3rd base and sign Mike Hampton to a 10 year deal.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 12, 2008 11:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beware of Dunn; he reminds me too much of Richie Sexson.
If the Angels miss out on Tex, they may turn to Dunn as an alternative. His OBP and homers would be a welcome addition, but he’s lousy in the field. In the first two years of his contract he could deliver an OBP of .375 with 35 homers a season. But after that, he might be like Sexson was in his final two seasons with the sorry-ass Mariners; a terrible player with no skills.
Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!
by Fan Since 1981 on Nov 15, 2008 4:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
doubt it
the guy is consistent.
the average may suck, but his OBP and power numbers are great.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 15, 2008 7:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sexson
is the Andruw Jones of MLB 1st basemen.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 16, 2008 12:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Never thought I'd say this...
…but we need Tex at almost any price. 10 years? Sure. 20 per? OK.
by ArkAngel on Nov 21, 2008 4:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't see
how the Halos can not justify giving him a ridiculous monster contract when they WAY overpaid for HGH Jr. and Torii Hunter, both lesser players.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 21, 2008 7:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
this is going to be stupid
CF are more important then 1B.
by HALO_86 on Nov 22, 2008 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Offensive players
are important, especially for offensively challenged teams. Besides, I’d rather spend big bucks on a good 1st baseman than a crappy-ass center fielder.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 22, 2008 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
GMJ or Torii?
GMJ i couldn’t believe we serioualy signed this guy. i was shocked when that signing happened. wasn’t that after Soriano signed with the Cubs. Torii was a good signing. i think he’s a leader that a team like this needs. someone Vocal who also produces.
by HALO_86 on Nov 22, 2008 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was mainly referring to
Gary No-thank-ews Jr. But I do believe we overpaid for Torii. Don’t get me wrong, I give credit to Tony Reagins for going out and realizing that Bill Stoneman made a huge mistake. I just think Mark Teixeira is clearly the better player than Torii so he deserves to be overpaid if Torii is, and ESPECIALLY is HGH Jr. is.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 22, 2008 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The GMJ signing: how and why
To make a short story long:
The GMJ story dates back to free agency following the 2004 season. The Angels needed a CF and had targeted Carlos Beltran, a player the Angels had long admired. However when the bidding went over $100m, the Angels exited the Beltran sweepstakes. TODAY the Beltran contract is good value, but in the context of salaries following the 2004 season it was beyond what the Angels would pay. The Angels still needed a CF. Enter free agent acquisition Steve Finley. Disaster ensues.
Fast forward to free agency after the 2005 season. The Angels need a “big bat” and are determined to get it. They outbid the White Sox for Paul Konerko with a 5-year $62 million offer and it appears all but done that the Angels would land the slugging first baseman. Not quite. Konerko himself later admitted he was VERY close to signing with the Angels, but decided to take less money and stay with the Sox. Angels strike out. Again.
It’s the 2006 season and Arte vows to make a “significant” acquisition. Two players are targeted: Alfonso Soriano and Aramis Ramirez. Enter the free agency period. The Angels have dollars to spend and are keen to meet with Ramirez, but the meeting with the Angels is cancelled. Aramis does not even bother to listen to any offers and decides to re-sign with the Cubs. Angels strike out. Again.
Attention is directed towards Soriano. The rumor is that it will take $90 million to sign him. The Angels, with their offer of 7-years for $118 million, feel that they are virtually guaranteed to land him. Then the stunner; the Cubs tack on 1 more year and another $18 million. The Angels feel that is an offer they simply can’t beat. Angels strike out. Again.
Panic time. The Angels have done nothing, need to save face, and have money to spend. They also have a legitimate need for someone who can actually play a half way decent CF. The Rangers wish to re-sign GMJ for 3 years at $25 million, which would have been reasonable. But free agency escalates things out of control. There are 4 year offers, but the Giants have a 5-year contract on the table. Angels match the years, beat the dollars, and land GMJ.
The above is not meant to validate the GMJ contact, but simply to provide some historical context as to what led the Angels to do what they did. A classic case of doing something for the sake of doing something.
Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!
by Fan Since 1981 on Nov 22, 2008 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is exactly why
they need to land Tex, even if it means spending ridiculous dollars. If they don’t, they might end up using the money doing some incredibly retarded, like signing another GMJ.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 22, 2008 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Teix
cmon mistakes like that won’t happen again. Angels learned. i still say 20/yr is the max i would be happy with. i think its fun being in that 1% minority on this issue.lol. but i’m going to try and stop writing about Teix until i see some real numbers being thrown out there. all we’re doing is having arguments over what ifs? we’ll see what happens in the next 2 weeks especially when the winter meetings happen.
by HALO_86 on Nov 22, 2008 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
From 2005-2007
the Angels had one of the top minor league systems in the country. If the FO wanted a big bat, they could have TRADED for one. Hell, the Red Sox were shopping Manny practically every year. Miguel Cabrera was traded. And these are better options than those available in free agency (with the exceptions of Aramis and Beltran). Instead, the Angels stuck with their prospects, and most of them lost value.
"It's just a tiny little nick, but it hurts when I get champagne in there."
- Jason Bay, on getting spiked scoring the winning run in ALDS Game Four.
by 0157H7 on Nov 23, 2008 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hindsight is 20/20.
Former Angels GM Bill Stoneman turned down the following trade in July 2002.
Stoneman Loses Shuey to Dodgers
The Angels lost out on one of the players they most coveted in trade, when General Manager Bill Stoneman refused to include his top prospects in a proposed deal for Cleveland reliever Paul Shuey.
The Angels believed that Shuey would have made an ideal acquisition, since he is a proven setup man and not a closer who would have to adjust to a setup role. The Angels are believed to have offered two prospects for Shuey.
In the four-player trade, the Dodgers gave up two promising pitchers, one their top-ranked pitching prospect and another a Class-A pitcher with 111 strikeouts in 113 innings, neither older than 23. An equivalent trade for the Angels would have included dazzling triple-A right-hander Francisco Rodriguez, 20, and a top lower-level prospect such as right-hander Johan (now known as Ervin Santana), 18, a deal Stoneman would not make.
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jul/29/sports/sp-angelrep29
Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!
by Fan Since 1981 on Nov 23, 2008 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hindsight is 20/20, in reference to your comment "the Angels stuck with their prospects, and most of them lost value."
Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!
by Fan Since 1981 on Nov 23, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Prospects
theres no way you can say any of the players the Angels didn’t get would have helped them get over. those are what if’s that no one can answer with a right answer. Beltran NYM have done nothing. Cubs with Soriano and Ramirez have done nothing more then expected. Cabrera did nothin to impact the Tigers, except get a fat contract and get fat again himself. whatever with what ifs.
by HALO_86 on Nov 23, 2008 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You're again
Not looking at where the Cubs/etc. would be had they not made those signings. Just because the Cubs and Mets aren’t wearing four WS rings at this point does not mean that those players are not valuable.
Here’s what might help: Go look up wins added for A-Ramirez, Teixiera, Beltran, and Soriano. Then take those numbers, subtract them from the respective teams’ win columns, and add them onto the loss columns.
Also, at 0157H7, remember that any team we tried to trade with in those years not only wanted prospects, they wanted all of our prospects. No. I for one am happy the Halos did not willingly bend over for the likes of Michael Hill or Theo.
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Nov 23, 2008 8:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Again
i am saying there not valuable.
where would the Cubs be without those signings? they would have more money to spend this off-season instead of getting rid of there closer. adding a avg reliever to be the new set-up man. Soriano i swear has missed like 25% of the games in chicago. can’t play any D in CF.
Wins added? now where do i look up wins added? this is exact science? this is proven that they added those victories to their teams. not some computer analysis.
by HALO_86 on Nov 24, 2008 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
PEOPLE
First base men grow on trees. Teams should not spend big BIG dollars on this position…PERIOD.
Save the money for starting pitching (every team needs), center field (angels are covered), or middle infield (angels need).
$20+ million for a first base man is a huge mistake.
by tuna411 on Nov 24, 2008 6:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why middle infield?
Howie Kendrick is only 25 and is a 2B who can post an .800+ OPS, which would put him among the best offensive 2B in baseball.
Aybar and Izzy rank among the two best defensive shortstops in all of baseball (from a DER perspective)
But regarding your main point: Yes, overpaying at 1B could be a huge mistake. Smells potentially like another Moooo Vaughn situation.
Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!
by Fan Since 1981 on Nov 24, 2008 8:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tex is a little different than you're average 1B.
Yes, good offensive first basemen grow on trees, but ones a good as Tex do not. There is a point where his price may exceed his value, but let’s not discount how good of a hitter he is even compared to other 1Bs.
by snowhor on Nov 24, 2008 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I want a tree that constantly grows
Albert Pujols’, Mark Teixeira’s & Ryan Howards.
Since only Tex is available right now, I’ll buy that tree.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Nov 25, 2008 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Photo: Gaylord Perry 'lobbies' Bud Selig to repeal spitball ban
- Spring Snapshot: Led by Tiny Tim, Giants making playoff push
- Desert Drive: Sandoval Pandamonium sweeping Giants country
- Nolan Ryan fitting in just fine as face, voice of Texas Rangers
- Red Sox prospect Ryan Westmoreland having brain surgery
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
