Setting up Plan B, if Plan A fails?
by matt92130 on Nov 23, 2008 2:32 PM PST
52 comments
Plan A without a doubt is Tex, right? I think we're all in consensus here. What about Plan B? What is our Plan B?
Could the Angels be setting up for more pitching? No Tex so we go after Sabathia? Then we could trade a few of our prospects and Weaver for Peavy? A rotation of:
SP1: John Lackey
SP2: CC Sabathia
SP3: Jake Peavy
SP4: Ervin Santana
SP5: Joe Saunders
Wow.... impressive. Plus for those concerned about money, I think it's more economical than Tex, and/or Manny. At that point, do we run the risk of becoming the Atlanta Braves of the 90's? Is that a bad thing? Could Matt Brown, Brandon Wood, or Freddy Sandoval be as productive, or close to GA? Can Morales be as productive as Tex is just stupid... but could he be as, or more productive than Kotch? Hmm, good questions to ponder. I want Tex back in Anaheim real bad, that's a helluva Plan B.
Your thoughts and opinions...
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There is no way
we are getting that dream rotation. And even if we did, there would be no money left for a bat so our offense would suck miserably. And Lackey has stated that he expects to have a contract extension with the Angels before he hits free agency but he wants to wait and see what their offensive plans are before he makes any commitments. So not signing a bat could mean that 2009 is Lackey’s final year as a Halo.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 23, 2008 2:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
hmm
if we have CC and Peavy, losing Lackey won’t sting as much. of course if we don’t add another bat were going to have to really hope couple of those young bats really breakout, and couple of the younger hitters keep getting better or just stay healthy.
by HALO_86 on Nov 23, 2008 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just ask the Giants
how things worked out the past few years w/excellent pitching yet very average hitting…
by mgerman23 on Nov 24, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Giants, excellent pitching?
The Giants ranked 17th in ERA in MLB last year. I’d put 17 out of 30 teams as below average, not excellent.
by snowhor on Nov 24, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pre Tex
We were doing just fine with Kotch. I think power wise, Morales is more than capable of producing equal to, if not better than Kotch’s numbers. No GA… okay, not a great deal of power anyway, and I completely understand Wood, Brown, or Sandoval could not equal his production. But would it be 3/4 of his production? Who could be our DH? Adding Sabathia, Peavy, and maybe Jason Giambi or Frank Thomas. That would add more power. Money wise, it still works. With Frankie, Garland, GA, and Rivera gone, it frees up about $36M. CC roughly $22M, Peavy due to make $11M next year. Could we get Frank Thomas or Giambi for $3M base plus incentives?
1. Figgins (LF)
2. Kendrick (2nd)
3. Vlad (RF)
4. Thomas/Giambi (DH)
5. Hunter (CF)
6. Morales (1st)
7. Napoli ©
8. Izturis (SS)
9. Wood/Brown/Sandoval (3rd)
SP: Lackey
SP: Sabathia
SP: Peavy
SP: Santana
SP: Saunders
Trading for Peavy, trading Aybar, Adenhart, (One of Wood, Brown, Sandoval), maybe and GMJ with us eating 3/4 of his salary. I could deal with this.
The future of our offense would be a little rough, but our pitching would be stacked. We could always through our system or FA.
by matt92130 on Nov 23, 2008 3:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahahahahahah
giambi for 3 Mill plus incentives. try 12 Mill as the absolute lowest giambi is willing to go for (unless theres some sort of collusion against him)
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 23, 2008 6:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Kendrick is not a number 2 hitter, at least not yet. Lackey is no number 1 in that dream rotation. And this:
try 12 Mill as the absolute lowest giambi is willing to go for
Plus, Giambi is a douchebag with douchebaggage, and I don’t see Arte bringing that kind of figure into this organization.
White trashin' the 909
by Red114 on Nov 23, 2008 9:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Giambi
is known to be great guy in the clubhouse. i don’t know where your gettin you info from.
by HALO_86 on Nov 24, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Arte won't bring a roider in.
Teixeira............Everything else can wait.
by hauldog on Nov 24, 2008 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Arte might bring the only roider to admit it.
I hated Giambi until he had the guts to admit it. And yeah Red114, if you’re claiming he has douchebaggage, can you cite anything?
Scioscia - He provides to unlike method of your team member.
by Rally Manatee on Nov 24, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
Like the Chief of Police in Malibu, I behaved like a real reactionary. I loathe posts like that, and yet I am guilty. I think I got caught up in my hatred of Yankees, as well as signing players on the decline, to put it nicely. My apologies to the Giambi family, his ironic moustache, and all those offended.
White trashin' the 909
by Red114 on Nov 25, 2008 6:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right
I was really just being a dick because of his involvement with the S word, which I really don’t care that much about in the first place. Still, I don’t think Moreno wants any more to do with juicers (alleged,former or otherwise), other than our current roaming outfielder/dh.
White trashin' the 909
by Red114 on Nov 25, 2008 6:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I think he drew his line in the sand with GMJ.
Teixeira............Everything else can wait.
by hauldog on Nov 25, 2008 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And that's a firm line in the sand.
It comes with an insultingly low $10 million per year and playing time limited to only 82.4% of games.
by snowhor on Nov 25, 2008 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well all of the PED stuff came out after he signed the contract
He was never charged with anything by the Commissioner either
Teixeira............Everything else can wait.
by hauldog on Nov 25, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know, I was just referring to that firm line in the sand comment.
by snowhor on Nov 25, 2008 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you disputing Arte's stance on PED's.
Teixeira............Everything else can wait.
by hauldog on Nov 25, 2008 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
i was thinking the same thing. if we failed to sign Teix i thought signing CC and trading for Peavy would be doable.
Peavy-Weaver, S-Rod, SP Prospect(Ortega, Green, Adenhart), GMJ or Willits. the key would be Weaver and S-Rod.
CC-If he’s willing to sign for alot less, if he really wants to be on the West Coast.
by HALO_86 on Nov 23, 2008 2:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
PICTHING ALONE DOES NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS
you MUST be able to hit. and since 2002, we have not been able to. we did not lose this year because of our pitching. we lost because we left so many men on base and could not score. we NEED hitters, not more pitchers.
we play in the American League. this National League-tyle BS play doesn’t work in this league anymore. the league has adjusted to us… now we need to adjust back.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 23, 2008 2:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
In 2008 the Angels were TENTH in the AL in runs scored
And things could get worse in 2009. The Angels have to replace 1,379 ABs (those of GA, Tex, Kotch, and Juan Rivera) which accounted for 24.9% of the team’s total ABs in 2008.
Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!
by Fan Since 1981 on Nov 23, 2008 3:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I know his defense sucks but...
Raul Ibanez, anyone? We might still be able to afford him even if we land Tex. He would be a solid replacement for Rivera and/or GA, and he would provide a GA batting average but with more power and more OBP. Think about it for a sec:
Chone Figgins 3B
Maicer Izturis SS
Mark Teixeira 1B
Vladimir Guerrero RF/DH
Raul Ibanez LF
Torii Hunter CF
Mike Napoli C
Kendry Morales DH/RF
Howie Kendrick 2B
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 23, 2008 3:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I’m all for Raul Ibanez. I’d take him in a heartbeat.
by matt92130 on Nov 23, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he would hit .600 at the big A, right?
i like raul’s bat but i think that would be plan D.
by SCHalo on Nov 24, 2008 8:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if we're okay with crappy defense
go for Dunn.
Figgins 3B
Kendrick 2B
Teixeira 1B
Guerrero DH
Dunn LF
Hunter CF
Napoli C
Morales RF
Wood SS
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 23, 2008 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do the Angels have the $$$$$$ to sign Tex and Dunn?
Man, the Angels really need those two guys in the lineup.
I haven’t watched Dunn play, so from a scouting perspective I can’t comment on his defense. However, for 2008 both DER (Defensive Efficiency Ratio) and RZR (Revised Zone Rating) have Dunn ranked ahead of GA. Dunn’s DER (actual outs/predicted outs) is 100.45 while GA is at 96.95. Dunn’s RZR is .899 compared to .837 for GA.
This is not to say the Dunn is a good defensive OF. But DER and RZR suggest he would be an improvement over GA. And for those of us who watch Angels baseball everyday, GA was NOT a disaster in LF. GA was not costing the Angels critical losses due to his glove work.
Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!
by Fan Since 1981 on Nov 23, 2008 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DER should be "Defensive Efficiency RECORD"
Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!
by Fan Since 1981 on Nov 23, 2008 4:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes they do
Frankie, Garland, GA, and Rivera are gone which freed up about $36M.
Next year, Vlad and Escobar come off the books. That’s another $26M.
Arte has the money to sign them both and trade for Peavy.
by matt92130 on Nov 23, 2008 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're assuming
That we let Vlad and Escobar go.
Unless the Angels have signed a new face of the franchise (coughtexieracough) by the end of next season, and unless Vlad is a complete disaster in the field and at the plate next year, I find it highly unlikely that he’s let go.
Escobar, on the other hand—since he’s not coming back until mid-season, it’s hard to say what happens there. I’d think that depending on when he comes back, the Angels take a look at how he performs in the second-half (since he’s coming back in July or later, or so it sounds from the reports) and then sign him to a one or two year extension as he comes back to form. Or, maybe the Shields/Arredondo closer-sharing situation won’t have worked out and Escobar becomes the new closer for the next few years.
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Nov 23, 2008 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
they sure do
Teix will come out to around $21-22MM/yr. Dunn will come out to around $10-12MM/yr. Let’s call the 2 of them together $33MM.
With GA, Garland, and K-Rod off the books, the Angels have $34MM coming off the books.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 23, 2008 6:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sounds good...but
where are we gonna get the $$$ to offer arb to HK, Weaver, Ervin, Hokie, Naps, not to mention Lackeys extension and our bullpen help need
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 23, 2008 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that's where you have to make decisions
and Arte also said he’d be willing to raise payroll “for the right players”.
you never know… i’m not saying we’re going up to a payroll of $150MM, but $130-135 isn’t unbelievable.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 23, 2008 7:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
figure just base numbers off the top of my head
in arb, Howie gets 5 M, Weaver gets 5, Ervin gets 7, Hokie gets 5, Naps gets 5, and Lackeys 4 M raise to 11 M a year (if we get lucky). So thats a straight addition of 31 Million dollars of payroll. Our payroll right now is 120 Mish. If we get Teix/Dubb for 33 M a year ( personally, i think dunn will make more in the range of 12-14) and dump the 34 M, then we still add 30 M to our salary to make it…150 M. Of Of course if that happens, we would absolutely need to dump GMJ. Figgins would have to go to save 7-10 M a year. Maybe we could somehow dump speiers 5 M contract on like the giants, Maybe pawn Moseley? Anyway, if we sign Dunn/Teix, and trade Figgins/GMJ in ’10 we could potentially see a lineup of
C: Naps
1B: Teix
2B: Howie
SS: Aybar/Wood
3B: Wood/S-Rod
LF-Dunn
CF-Hunter
RF-Vlad
DH-Kendry
wouldnt look too bad actually, but in a few years when Vlad and Dunn and potentially trumbo or conger need the DH spot things would get really tricky. The only way this happens is if we can dump GMJ, and it helps that Kelvim will have 10 Mil coming off the books after next year. You know, this might actually somehow work…
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 23, 2008 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sign dunn to a 3 year deal
and that problem goes away.
Conger is about 3 years off.
depending on what happens with Vlad this year, we might have to wave bye-bye to Big Daddy. Of course, with the addition of Dunn and Napoli’s added power, I don’t know how much he’d really be missed.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 23, 2008 10:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how soon are you figuring some of these arbitration deals are coming
I’m pretty sure Howie is two years off, Weaver isn’t getting 5, maybe 3 same with Hokie Joe. Ervin isn’t getting 7, two good years and one disastrous one and Naps isn’t getting 5 with his playing time only being 1/2 the time. Lackey is signed to a contract that voids his arbitration (if memory serves me right). If anyone thinks my thinking is off, feel free to let me know, but I think that if you add Tex/Dunn, it’ll only bring payroll up to 135, maybe 140.
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Specializing in maniac-ball since 2000
by halofan4life on Nov 24, 2008 8:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Numbers
your ARB #‘s are way off. some of them aren’t even eligible yet. even with all the FA we have internally may=34M. with some of the ARB eligible players will reduce that 34M. so it will be less then that. if we make a big play in FA market it will be for only 1 big name. thats it, then the rest would have to be filled within and lower $ players to fill out the roster. if Arte keeps it at 125M. its easy for us all to say yeah its no problem to increase payroll, because its not our money. if Arte doesn’t go beyond 125M or even goes a little lower i’m not going to be mad. he’s proven he will spend money, just i’m not 1 of those fans expects hime to raise it from 08-119 to 09-135. that doesn’t look like alot but its a huge jump. we have to keep our perspectives as fans.
by HALO_86 on Nov 24, 2008 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Quick take on Raul
His AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS+ for the last 3 seasons:
.289/.353/.516/125
.291/.351/.480/121
.293/.358/.479/124
His road AVG/OBP/SLG for the last 3 seasons:
.278/.329/484
.306/.356/.545
.309/.362/.462
Career stats at Angel Stadium:
.358/.415/.521 (257 ABs)
Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!
by Fan Since 1981 on Nov 23, 2008 3:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he always has been an angel killer
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Specializing in maniac-ball since 2000
by halofan4life on Nov 23, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I too am ok with Ibanez
as long as we agree to pronounce it white boy style “eye-buh-nez” with no tilde over the ‘n.’ You know, like the guitar company. My nickname for him already is “Shredder.”
I think he’s a better option than Frank Thomas for sure, maybe better than Giambi (who also sucks on defense).
By the way, I was watching Apocalypto last night, and I swear Raul Ibanez plays one of the evil Mayans.
Scioscia - He provides to unlike method of your team member.
by Rally Manatee on Nov 24, 2008 4:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Plan b appears to be a top dollar starter, but...
…the question is what they do AFTER that, because, as is patently obvious pitching alone won’t cut it.
For me, that means an extra trade chip and I think we can expect a young pitcher to leave (Saunders? sell high), package him with one of our half dozen middle infielders (+ maybe see if anyone wants to gamble on Speier, Mathis) and see what comes on offer.
Corner infielder / left fielder with a bit of muscle preferably. The question is, is there anyone out there that matches up with us?
I see red people
by The Limey on Nov 23, 2008 3:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Glaus
if Teix and Manny don’t work out. Glaus. 1 yr left @14M. Cards are looking for Pitching and MIF. i don’t think we have to give up Saunders.
by HALO_86 on Nov 23, 2008 4:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
Scioscia - He provides to unlike method of your team member.
by Rally Manatee on Nov 24, 2008 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs?
Aramis Ramirez matches up. They’d love to more pitching. As to who’d they’d use at 3rd… dunno. If Wood was in the deal, then, yes, it would work. I’m just not into trading Saunders. I’d rather trade Weaver and give up more prospects.
by matt92130 on Nov 23, 2008 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
the Cubs might still be a little pissed off when they wanted Figgins and we asked for A-Ram in return.
by Chzburger Jones on Nov 23, 2008 4:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
PLAN B = Manny
There’s no one else I would put my money down on.
If I hear the word "red sox"...POW!!! RIGHT IN THE KISSER!!!
by Halofanatic on Nov 24, 2008 2:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wait, wait, wait.... Really....
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081126&content_id=3694591&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp
Can someone please tell Lyle Spencer I assessed that three days before him. Oh and please ask him to quit biting on my analysis. Thanks.
by matt92130 on Nov 27, 2008 2:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
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