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Sabathia becomes the primary target

According to the LA Times the Angels front office have started their courting of the Big Fella.  We're flirting, even if we haven't yet asked him on a date, much less dragged him back for coffee.

I'm intrigued as to what's going on here - is it a genuine approach?  Are we driving up the price for Sabathia to take the Yankees out of play on Teix?  Has Reagins forgotten that we need offence as well as pitching?  Is this a prelude to a trade?

Poll
What is the Angels front office up to?
We want Sabathia, he can DH on his off days
52 votes
We're making the Yankees overpay, 1 less competitor for Teix
131 votes
Reagins has forgotten his priorities (and lost his marbles)
68 votes
We're signing them both
143 votes
This is a prelude to a big trade for a bat
85 votes

479 votes | Poll has closed

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

3 recs | Comment 167 comments

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Comments

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I hope the Angels aren't serious!!

We have plenty of pitching. We need a proven Big Bat !

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 25, 2008 8:27 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i dont think we lost 1-0 in any of those playoff games

offense is streaky, maybe sabathia makes saunders or santana tradeable for another bat? who knows.

personally, im torn on sabathia. he is truly a special player and i KNOW id love to see him on our team, i just think that contract could be pretty crippling long term.

i also think if the angels are really this serious about CC, its because theyre not getting the impression teixeira WANTS to be an angel any more than he wants to be anywhere else. I remember a story about his wife knowing nobody in california. Being that his job is super time consuming, im sure his family’s comfort factors into where he plays

by ihearhowie2.0 on Nov 25, 2008 9:02 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

true....

what I was saying is that the Angels have been way too tight in the playoffs. During the regular season the hitting was too streaky. And during the playoffs the Halos just seem to be too tight.

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 25, 2008 9:08 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

young hitters

like it or not alot of our hitters are young still. it does take time to mature. unfortunately they have to do it in the playoffs were everything is magnified

by HALO_86 on Nov 25, 2008 12:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like what happened with the Dodgers this past post-season

Dodgers have young hitters as well. Along came Manny: believe it or not, his “don’t give a crap” attitude & mashing skills, took a ton of pressure off the young hitters. We need a guy like that in our dugout.

Following the young hitters logic, I will give you that. The Rays must have been a fluke.

Figgins, what to do with him. This guy has sucked when we need him the most: The Playoffs ! I think it’s time for him to be traded.

Kendrick: this guy has to prove he can stay healthy for a full season.

What really should be discussed is a new hitting coach as well.

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 25, 2008 1:30 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i understand the frustration

i agree we need hitting. but like you said Manny did make that impact in that lineup of young hitters. before he came they weren’t really hitting that well. Did Teix really make that impact in the lineup? or did he just put up his own numbers? i really don’t want Manny. unless its short term 1yr maybe 2. i still think i would rather have 2 quality hitters added to the lineup then retaining 1 great hitter.

Rays were lucky or not, they got hot. we’ll see this coming season if those hitters keep hitting. i remember Upton almost got traded because he was inconsistent and causing some headaches.

HK, i can’t defend his injuries. if it happens again maybe we/he needs a new start somewhere else. i hope he can stay healthy, he looks like he’s going to be a special player.

Hatcher-i still like Hatch. i think its easy for us to blame him when the hitters go silent, but he can only do is coach. if the hitters don’t step up then its not his fault. the hitting philosophy is fine. it helped us win in ’02. no one was complaining back then.

by HALO_86 on Nov 25, 2008 1:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's make a deal.

For those who think pitching is the cure I say fine. If we sign CC, then we fire Mickey Hatcher.

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 25, 2008 2:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What is Hatcher's hitting philosophy?

"People who say we teach our guys to slap – that’s a farce," Hatcher said. "Our philosophy is simple: see a ball, center it up and hit it. Whatever the situation or count, whether it’s a hit-and-run or if a guy is in scoring position, stay to center field and hit a line drive.

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/sep/19/sports/sp-angels19

Isn’t that the philosophy most hitting coaches have? The issue comes down to the type of players we have. Mostly aggressive hitters that like to put the ball in play.

by Seik1177 on Nov 25, 2008 2:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, since the Halos don't seem to want to part with too many of our

guys, which is it. We see young players come up and we occassionally we see new proven players come in.

While philosophy may not be the issue, maybe it’s his approach or personality? Maybe his teaching style.

The one common thing through all of this is: Mickey Hatcher.
This is only a suggestion: maybe some new blood with the philosophy of most hitting coaches will help.

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 25, 2008 2:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not trying to put words in yur mouth

but are you saying make a change for the sake of change?

by Seik1177 on Nov 25, 2008 3:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So basically...

see ball, hit ball. Genius. I would have never thought of that.

by Chzburger Jones on Nov 25, 2008 6:58 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and with that said

and put so simply. Why in the hell are there hitting coaches.

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 27, 2008 1:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i dont' understand

how we sit here and think CC contract would be crippling when Teix is going to get more money? i understand he’s everyday player and CC pitches every 5th game, but how many elite pitchers are there in this league that we can just sign not have to pull off some huge trade.

thats probably true about Teix that he really wants to be on the east coast. wouldn’t you want to be on the west coast like CC if you had your choice. i know $$$ is everything to alot of you guys in here, but the money both of them are going to make is going to set them up for life. so taking less like CC might do to come to the west coast is something i can understand. same Teix, but i’m sure he’s going to get the most money.

by HALO_86 on Nov 25, 2008 12:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Difference

Is that Teix is a need. I know you don’ t agree with that, and we don’t need to rehash the argument again. But the team and most of the fanbase see Teix—a major impact bat and OBP machine whom the young guys can and should look to for guidance at the plate [and in the field]—as a major, bonafide need for the Angels’ future.

CC, on the other hand, is more of a luxury. Sure we need a fifth starter, and it would be fantastically awesome to have Sabathia in the rotation, as opposed to killing us with another AL team (or NL, in interleague? the playoffs?)—but the fact is that this team is pretty well set on pitching for next year.

To recap: need v. luxury. Makes much, much sense to pay a huge contract for the need but to back off a bit for the luxury.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 25, 2008 12:50 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Teix

this is the thing about Teix that i don’t like when you guys talk about how he can teach our young players how to hit. i’ve never really read where he has been known to be a player like that. someone to lead a team. when i see Teix, i see him more like that i come to work, play my game, be quiet, and go home. he doesn’ t seem like that vocal leader that you need from a guy your going to pay that much money to. i know we overpayed for Torii but his personality as a vocal leader who backs it up is a good thing.

the same thing about Lackey. remember after Game 1 he complained about 1 bad pitch, no one should lose on 1 bad pitch. he got all pissed off and basically called out his teammates. i’m pretty sure his teammates weren’t happy about their own performance. they don’t need thier “ace” calling them out like that after Game freakin 1. CC to what i’ve seen, and yes its been limited but it looks like he’s and ace with leadership abilities. i think 1 thing the Angels have lacked more then hitting is leadership.

your right about not wanting to rehash the old debate i’ve been having with you guys. first i want to see what happens. don’t get me wrong i like Teix. your right, you want guys like that on your team. but guys like that and A-Rod don’t look or seem like leaders and the younger guys are going to get behind.

by HALO_86 on Nov 25, 2008 1:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And I said way back then

that I would take on the responsibility of getting friendly with his wife. For the good of the team, of course.

Scioscia - He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by Rally Manatee on Nov 25, 2008 4:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am going to agree with this

Teixeira............Everything else can wait.

by hauldog on Nov 25, 2008 9:43 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bartolo Colon

After we signed this fatty, I deftly dubbed him “The Hamburglar” because it was completely within the realm of sanity to hear a story about him “running around a McDonald’s and stealing everyone’s hamburgers and then jamming them down his throat.”

I was worried about his longevity, worried about his age, but most importantly, I was worried about his choesterol.

All of this C.C. talk is taking me right back to where I stood in ‘03. Granted C.C. is two and a half years younger than Colon when we signed him, but I have to wonder how long he’s going to last.

If we do sign him, I would love to hand down the nickname “The Hamburglar,” to C.C. I think Bartolo would be honored and he looks great in black and white…

Visual depiction: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_poTS-TIBlRE/SS2leJ0MjnI/AAAAAAAAAV0/Nb3dwJM3f9A/s1600-h/Sabathia+hamburglar.jpg

All joking aside, I think Tony should ask himself one question…

During the past month, who do you think has done the most to better themself as a player, C.C. or Teixeira?

My guess would be Teix has hit the weights and C.C. has been downing quarter-pounders…that should rank your priority pretty easily for you Tony.

Vlad The Impailer Strikes Again!!!

by wizzdiddly on Nov 26, 2008 11:48 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

CC

so you know CC or something? lets talk about skills on the field and stop attacking someone on a personal level were you don’t know the guy. don’t hate on a guy on a personal level because what his market value is worth.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 12:41 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm joking around about the dudes weight...

Calm down.

I know he’s a talented pitcher, his weight just makes me worry about his longevity. No need to get all defensive, just stating an opinion

Vlad The Impailer Strikes Again!!!

by wizzdiddly on Dec 2, 2008 8:29 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dragging back for coffee???...

Is that what the English call (insert crude euphemism here)?…

by The Clyde on Nov 25, 2008 8:44 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That WAS my crude euphemism

My only concern with this is it won’t be a quick ‘coffee’, it’ll be a 6/7 year marriage, and I’ve got a feeling this blushing bride might turn into a porker

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 25, 2008 12:32 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, she'll be a porker alright.

She’s already pushing maximum density. More cushion for the pushin’! Yee haw!!! Sign’m!

(now THAT’s crude euphemism-in’ my Limey friend)

by The Clyde on Nov 25, 2008 5:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The big question...

…is whether, like certain women, he does us the courtesy of helping bring a couple of bright, healthy bouncing baby rings into the world before the size of his arse goes semi-nuclear and he spends the next 4 years on the couch, eating donuts and telling everyone that he did the hard work – NOW YOU PAY FOR IT! (which is probably an acceptable price to pay for a couple of rings).

Or, he just cuts straight to the loafing (divorce imminent, say ‘no’ to the no-trade clause)

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 26, 2008 2:06 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"How can you stay, with a fat girl, who'll say..."

“would you like to marry me, and if you like you can buy the ring…”

by The Clyde on Nov 26, 2008 6:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wanker...?

‘Wanker’ doesn’t quite have the matey tone here, I suspect you think it does. Go to page 13.

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 27, 2008 10:09 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Spastic" is 15th?

Does that mean something else over there?

I was uncool before uncool was cool.

by WiHaloFan on Nov 27, 2008 1:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

People use 'spastic'...

…much the same way you guys use ‘retard’ – perhaps a little more offensive than ‘retard’

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 27, 2008 2:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ooops! Sorry.

Would “bugger” have earned me sensitivity training?

“Big mouth strikes again”

by The Clyde on Nov 29, 2008 6:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You dropping

The Smiths on us? Just another way of bringing some English flavor to the picnic I guess……..

Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee

by Angel Aviator on Nov 27, 2008 11:41 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Clyde brought The Smiths into it...

…I was just playing along.

(p.s. It’s only bringing some English flavour if it has a ‘u’ in it)

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 27, 2008 2:26 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We need a true number 1 starter

To win in the playoffs, the Angels need dominant pitching, not just a bunch of number 2 starters. If the Angels traded for Peavy and signed Sabathia, they would have the kind of dominant three starters that win in the playoffs.

The Angels are currently a great regular season team, but above average pitching and offense that relies on stealing runs based upon the other teams mistakes will not win in October. Get dominant pitching, and the Angels win two or three more World Series Championships.

by SC81 on Nov 25, 2008 9:43 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

??

You do realize Lackey gave up two runs in his playoff starts?

What are you expecting, a guy to come in and strike out 18 batters in a complete, perfect game in each postseason start?

For reference, here’s our 2009 rotation’s (as it stands) career postseason ERAs, followed by CC:

Lackey (58.1 IP): 3.39 (22 ER)
Escobar (19.2 IP): 3.66 (8 ER)
Santana (17 IP): 6.88 (13 ER)
Saunders (4.2 IP): 7.71 (4 ER)
Weaver (7 IP): 2.57 (2 ER)

Sabathia (25 IP): 7.92 (22 ER)

In other words, every pitcher in our rotation has a lower postseason ERA by nearly a run (with the exception of Saunders).

Small sample size, yes—but it demonstrates that Sabathia isn’t necessarily that dominant ps pitcher you think he is.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 25, 2008 10:00 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Damn I Love Our 2009 Starting Pitching ! ! !

And with those post-season numbers & their proven regular season numbers, there really isn’t much more you could ask for from them.

Now if someone could put up the Halos batting averages for the regular season & post-season, I think everything that the Angels need right now will become crystal clear.

Bats Bats Bats people !

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 25, 2008 10:14 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Teix

why is he the final answer??? like i said before in another post. we need more then 1 dominant bat. it showed in the playoffs. we need 2 but were not going to get 2. so why not split the money up that we are trying to sign Teix for and get 2 proven bats. it might not be sexy as Teix but it gives us more depth then just trying to retain 1 bat. which i hate to keep saying we lost in the ALDS.

by HALO_86 on Nov 25, 2008 12:40 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When are you going to realize...

that just because we lost in the ALDS doesn’t mean we shouldn’t sign Teixeira?

Your argument is pathetic.

Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!

by Angel Hawker on Nov 25, 2008 3:25 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Teix again

all i’m sayin is if we retain the team we had from last yrs finish. whats going to be the diff on how we finished and 09? if we only retain Teix theres no improvement overall to the team. we still have weak spots that won’t be answered.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 9:55 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What will be different?

Younger guys more experienced.

Veterans pretty much the same

Pitching very similar

Maybe some contributions in the bulllpen from young guys.

Prolly not playing the Red Sux in a best of 5

Teixeira............Everything else can wait.

by hauldog on Nov 26, 2008 1:50 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Since 2002, how many playoff series have the Angels won without dominant starting pitching?

and last year, we didn’t win with Tex. We will not outhit Boston, we need to outpitch them. I like Tex. Would love to re-sign him. But re-signing him without getting another dominant starter will not get the Angels a World Championship.

Ironically, I’d prefer to trade for Peavy, then pay for CC. Personally I think the CC talks are a way to pressure San Diego on trade talks, and we aren’t really going down that path.

Anyway, I want pitching.

by SC81 on Nov 25, 2008 10:16 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agree

if Teix is asking for more then 20M/yr then i move on. it’s always easier to make trades when you have depth with SP.

by HALO_86 on Nov 25, 2008 12:41 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Question?

did we lose last year’s playoffs and the recent one’s before against Boston because of bad pitching more than lack of hitting?

Pitching leader? I don’t know about this one. The Angels have enough talent pitching-wise, that you don’t need a CC type to motivate them to rise above their average tallent level like he HAD to do with the Brewers pitching staff. Our starting pitchers have enough ego to go with their talent so it’s not needed.
Is Teixeira the final answer? NO ! I would have to agree with a couple of others on this particular post that Tex is Not going to teach or other hitters by being involved with them directly. He is a lead by example guy & not very vocal nor a vocal leader. His skills alone are what the Angels should be paying for and nothing else. For that reason, this guy is worth seriously persuing. I also agree with the neccessary team leader who is a clutch hitting/mashing big bat, the Halos need that player to loosen up the dugout and the players around him. The only example I can give is what Manny did with the Dodgers late last season.

With that, I would love to have Manny because we all know he can mash and the guy is relaxed and loves to play.

Wouldn’t it be nice if Arte gave Manny a ridiculous 2 year deal so we don’t have to worry about his age down the road and the potential of him getting bored and pulling a “Bad Manny”on us. As long as Manny is getting tons of attention by the fans & media he is fine. The positives he could have on the young players and how he could loosen up Vlad and take the pressure of Torii in the post-season is worth it to me. Hell, rename the stadium after him, the Mannyheim Stadium.

Give me Manny for 2yrs & pay him between 25 & 30 million per…
Sign Tex for no more than 8years.

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 25, 2008 2:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

personally

i think we have been outpitched in the playoffs against the Redsox the last 2 yrs. i know someone will bring up some stats that make me look stupid. especially with runners left on base, and RISP avg. i would say 60-40 outpitched. if Lackey is our ace and he gets outpitched by the other teams #3(Lester) in both games that tells me either Lackey can’t cut it or we just went up against a very hot pitcher.

i disagree with ego going with talent. i know we discussed that our hitters are young but so are our pitchers. Lackey is the only with any Playoff experience before the 08 season. Weaver got some action but he had a bad year. having and ego and having talent is totally diff then putting the two together. i think our staff has talent or the ego but not both. not right now.

by HALO_86 on Nov 25, 2008 3:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Weaver also pitched in game 3 of '07 ALDS

and Santana bailed out Colon in ’05

The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Specializing in maniac-ball since 2000

by halofan4life on Nov 25, 2008 7:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think we've been outpitched

though I can see where you are coming from. I just think that are hitters have sucked it up so bad against the Red Sox that it makes their pitching look dominant, even though it may not be.

by Chzburger Jones on Nov 26, 2008 11:51 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

i c where your coming from. if we just got 1-2 RISP hits it may have gone our way. who knows. we put soo much pressure on their pitching but we couldn’t get that 1-2 hits that could have broke them. i still think if our Ace is pitching against their #3 we should have at least outpitched them once.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 12:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lackey is a true #1.

Remember in ’06 when he gave up a lead off hit, then retired 27 straight? To me, that is just as impressive as a no-hitter. He was damn close again this year to the no-no against BoSuck. He threw a career 12 strike outs in a game this year, which is more than either Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay.

And here is the kicker. Let’s look at the # of times a pitcher threw 7 or more innings per start, since that seems to be a standard of quality. The list will go: pitcher, games started, games with 7+ IP, and the percentage.

John Lackey, 24, 14, 58%
Mike Mussina, 34, 8, 24%
AJ Burnett, 34, 16, 47%
Jon Lester, 33, 16, 48%
Dice-K, 29, 8, 28%
Cliff Lee, 31, 20, 65%
Roy Halladay, 33, 23, 70%
Brandon Webb, 34, 20, 59%

So, I’ll admit that Halladay and Lee were more dominant starters than Lackey this year. But Lackey was more dominant than all those other fools, and just a sliver less dominant than the NL Cy Young winner. And you’re saying he’s not a #1 starter?

Scioscia - He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by Rally Manatee on Nov 25, 2008 6:38 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NL Cy Young winner??

That would be Tim Lincecum, 33, …not sure where to find those other stats.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 25, 2008 7:17 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oops

I don’t know how I got it in my head that Webb won the Cy Young.

Anyway, it doesn’t change the fact that Lackey kicks ass. I got the 7+ IP stats by looking at each players ’08 game by game log. Kind of an interesting project.

Scioscia - He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by Rally Manatee on Nov 25, 2008 8:38 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

Wasn’t knocking you or your point, just pointing it out.

Lackey clearly kicks @$$.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 25, 2008 10:59 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We're making the Yankees overpay? HAHAHAHA

Yeah, the poor Yankees will go broke signing C.C. and have no money left for Teix. Seriously some people believe that given their history?

by Wytelitning on Nov 25, 2008 10:06 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sabathia doesn't want to come to your sink hole

Everyone and their mother knows your team is destined for a long and painful rebuilding mode. The party is over, Anaheim. Time to jump the bandwagon like you always do, you sad sorry bastards.

by marinator on Nov 25, 2008 11:06 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HAHA Fiction can be Fun..............

Disappointment proves that expectations were mistaken.......ladies and gentlemen your 2008 Buffalo Bills.....

by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 25, 2008 11:07 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

typical Mariners' fan class

It’s no wonder the Mariners are never mentioned as a destination for top-tier free agents. Who’d want to play in front of a bunch of jackasses like this?

by yeswecan on Nov 25, 2008 11:21 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

seattle's sports scene in general in said..........

look at the Seachickens and Huskies?

Disappointment proves that expectations were mistaken.......ladies and gentlemen your 2008 Buffalo Bills.....

by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 25, 2008 11:22 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

*is sad*.........

jeebus…….

Disappointment proves that expectations were mistaken.......ladies and gentlemen your 2008 Buffalo Bills.....

by norcaliangelsfan on Nov 25, 2008 11:22 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hey who let the hater in ...?

All I want for Christmas is Mark Teixeira and Jake Peavy as Angels in 2009.

by deejayelleseven on Nov 25, 2008 12:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think youre confused at what winning actually looks like

its when you score more runs than the other team. being a mariner fan, i know this can be confusing.

by linkbruin on Nov 26, 2008 3:05 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dunno...

I don’t see Sabathia as a dominant pitcher. This year’s WS MVP and NL Cy Young are DOMINANT guys, Sabathia’s just a horse, which is awesome for a team in other ways. Anyway, CC hasn’t been aces in the postseason the way some people seem to think. He has lost more than one playoff game is all I’m saying.

I think this Angels team has been dragging their bats for so long having a sustainable offensive presence signed to a long term deal has to remain the priority. We’ve shown year in and year out that we make the playoffs with great pitching and with “merely” good-to-very-good pitching. We’re basically assured of the latter with our mix of youth and experience in the rotation, but Vlad’s getting older and none of the farm prospects look ready to project for power any time soon.

Not to mention the fact that committing money to another starter before paying a big bat makes it harder to fulfill another pressing need: rounding out the bullpen. Mark my words, if we spend on Sabathia and lose Tex, we’ll pay for it in blown saves and a messy bullpen, maybe to the point that we send Weaver or Saunders out in relief eventually.

by Brendo on Nov 25, 2008 11:19 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wait

K-Rod hasn’t been Mr. Lights in the 9th. he always struggles especially against the Redsox.

by HALO_86 on Nov 25, 2008 12:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In need of an update

I just saw on ESPN that the Cubs are backing out of the Peavy race and I was wondering what you guys thought about reinvigorating our trade talks for Peavy. Therefore we can focus on spending Arte’s money on Tex? I know alot would have to work out for this to be pulled off but I would much rather have Peavy and Tex instead of worrying about two major contracts in CC and Tex.

I am calling all you Angels!!!
Fight On Trojans!

by trojanangelfan on Nov 25, 2008 1:04 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no way

CC and Teix are going to be Angels. that would be too much money. its easy for us to say spend but its not our money. lol.

by HALO_86 on Nov 25, 2008 1:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly

I am just as guilty as everyone else for spending Arties money. But since us fans are paying Artie so Artie can pay the players, I say we sign these big dollar players.

Here is the catch Artie, when you have to raise the prices to pay for them, do the majority of us a favor. Please stick the price increases on those who can afford them. I would hate it if I wouldn’t be able to take my boys to see our beloved Halos because of ridiculous prices. Keep the current ticket prices the same for everyone but the high dollar seats. You’ll make up the difference on beer sales.

Lets face it, I would venture to say the majority of us on this site can’t afford suites or season tickets anywhere near homeplate which arent in the nosebleeds. I don’t think that raising prices on those can afford it will make the stadium emptier.

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 25, 2008 2:32 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is very Buzzie Bavasi - in reverse

Bavasi had a mad-on for big bats in the 80s, while the fans were clamoring for quality pitching.

I’m nobody special, but IMO, the biggest need for the Angels is offense.
Consider this – if they sign CC for $140 million+, that mean no GA, no Tex and no Juan Rivera.

Is that worth it for a guy who’s gonna pitch every 5 days and is gonna need the Angels to give him some kind of support to get wins?

I mean, if he gives up 3-4 runs and the Angels have an offense on life support, what good is that? Just ask Jim Abbott and Kirk McCaskill about lack of run support

"And the Anaheim Angels are the Champions of Baseball!"

by Grichfan on Nov 25, 2008 2:01 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

1st Half

someone can look it up hopefully. i’m pretty sure GA, JR, and Teix(because he wasn’t here in the first half) didn’t have much of a impact on the team offensively so losing those guys for CC is not going to kill us. i want Teix, but if it doesn’t work out getting CC would be awesome. like i said you can always trade cheap young SP for quality bats later in the season.

by HALO_86 on Nov 25, 2008 3:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kirk McCaskill...

Wow… there’s a name from the past. Love it. Hmmm, how about Gary DiSarcina. Haha. Sorry, hate it when people get off thread… Last time I’ll do it, but that was a good trip down memory lane. Thanks Grichfan.

by matt92130 on Nov 25, 2008 2:05 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reality is setting in

Tex has always stated a preference to play on the east coast, and the odds are real good that Boston is the likely destination. I’m not happy about this because we need the bat, but I’d rather have Reagins get an all-star player that wants to be in Anaheim. The Angels can’t afford to miss out on both Tex and CC, so if Tex really wants to live close to Maryland – then let’s move on before it’s too late.

by mustard_man on Nov 25, 2008 2:15 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's time for Tex to Man Up !!

Quit letting the “Ball & Chain” dictate where you play. Divorce her while you can & before you sign the Fat Contract from Artie! Tex, hear me out brother, The chicks are hotter in SoCal than the entire East Coast (except South Beach), the weather is better, and with that wad in your wallet you will be free to “DO” whatever you want.

Bring the kids, hire a nanny and take them to Disneyland every day. They don’t have Disneyland in Boston, New York City, or Baltimore, so I think the kiddies will be happier with daddy as an Angel !

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 25, 2008 2:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Check past post: Setting up Plan B, if Plan A fails?

My job title is intelligence analyst….. I saw this coming…. and I love it. The Angels have the funding for two big free agents. Tex, Manny, and/or CC at $20M+. Whatever the combination. I love Manny and Tex together, and giving the 5th slot in the rotation to one of our kids. Or, we could sign CC, and trade for Peavy which I think will happen after we sign CC. One helluva rotation. Weaver, Aybar, Adenhart, and maybe another prospect for Peavy will be the deal. Maybe substitute S-Rod for Aybar will be required.

OMG… what about our offense!!?? Got that covered. Seeing we were in 1st place and playing great ball pre-Tex with Kotch. I believe Morales will be as productive as Kotch, if not more, so 1st base is covered. As for LF, yes, GA, and Rivera are gone. Why couldn’t we bring back Rivera? Or bring in Ibanez? All three would likely provide the same/or close to the same production. So, nothing lost there. What about DH? Well, I think we’d still have $3-$8M left… (which I’ve explained in other posts… not going into it again), could we bring in Frank Thomas, Jason Giambi, or Ken Griffey Jr as a 1 year DH? We can afford it. CC will get $20M, and Peavy is due $11M this year. With what we let go, and trades…. we’re more than capable of getting this all done.

I like doing analysis… I love it even more when I’m right.

by matt92130 on Nov 25, 2008 2:27 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No on Ibanez

He’s got more RBI’s over the last three years than Tex, but he’s 37 years old.

You are what you type.

by rjcicc on Nov 25, 2008 4:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See May 2008--early June 2008

Then imagine that over the course of a season.

Yup. Great offense.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 25, 2008 4:51 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

answer

is that we were still winnning. isn’t that what it matters. its now how you win, as long as its a win. its doesn’t have to be pretty, it only has to be a win.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 9:57 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

All right

In May we went 15-13, which works out to 90-72 over the course of a season, if every month worked out the same exact way. However, keep in mind that May was a fairly weak month in terms of the opponents we faced (Royals, Orioles, White Sox, Tigers) and we didn’t do so hot against the quasi-tougher ones (swept by the Rays). If you stretch out over the course of a season against more the more representative opponents, that should work out to a roughly .500 record—which, only because Texas and everyone else in the AL West completely sucked, would have put us barely into first place. Which also would have meant that we would have faced Boston at Fenway and been swept right out.

Keep in mind, too, that while Casey Kotchman did his part in May by hitting .300, he hit .220 and .253, respectively, in June and July, which certainly wouldn’t have helped if the rest of the offense performed as it did in May. Add to that that part of the reason we did as well as we did in May is because the rotation put the rest of the team on its collective back and carried it. This would most definitely not have lasted.

Except, oh, wait, I seem to remember we got an offensive jolt somewhere in there…hmm I wonder who it was…

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 26, 2008 1:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wait

let me see i think we swept some team in July???? damn i forget who it is…hmmm somewhere in Boston….with Kotch…hmmm ohh yeah those Redsox damn. hmmm maybe Teix is just bad luck.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 1:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok

Fine. The point is the offense:

Here we go—

Pre-All Star Team BA: .257 (18th out of 30)

Post-All Star Team BA: .284 (2nd out of 30)

Pre-All Star RS: 409 (23rd out of 30)

Post-All Star RS: 356 (4th out of 30)

LINK: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byteam?cat=Splits&cut_type=181&conference=MLB&year=season_2008&sort=722

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 26, 2008 2:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Meant this

As a reply to the below.

May is the example because it was our worst offensive month. Pitching slipped in August, but offense had picked up by that point. I wonder why?

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 26, 2008 2:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Offense

going through the stats, if i read it right. it says the team did best in July beforeTeix arrived? so the offense was coming around. August there was improvement over May & Jun. but is it because of Teix. July was a good month. no doubt. i’ve never said Teix isn’t good player. i’ve never said the deal for Teix wasn’t a good one for the team. the only thing i’m not comfortable with is the fact that mostly everyone in here seems to have drank the Teix kool-aid and think he’s the 1. but we’ll find out within a month and by next yr this time if its a good move or not.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 3:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

why

are we picking May as the month to use as an example??

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 1:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if you want to use team stats

lets see how they did in Aug. 15-13 wow. who was new on that team in Aug. hmmmm wow Teix. so we can pick our little stats and make each look stupid.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 1:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmmm August

 The club was 7-3 until Izturis dove late in the game for a ball in the hole against Seattle, and was lost for the season (lost that game). They would go 8-9 the rest of the month

HK hit .205, Aybar hit .222, Mathis .087, Hunter .262, Vlad .245, S-Rod .130, Tex .407 for the rest of the month (.386/.479/.633 for the month of August)

Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee

by Angel Aviator on Nov 26, 2008 10:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

team

i was talking about overall team producing. the “impact” Teix has on players around him in the lineup.

by HALO_86 on Nov 27, 2008 12:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

CC

I’d rather over trade for Peavy, and sign Tex. Make it worth their money… give them GMJ, SD is a sinking ship anyways, he’d fit in nicely. They can have figgins too… and whatever prospects they need.

by Zookeeper on Nov 25, 2008 4:48 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i dont think its about who we want, but who we can GET

i personally want teixeira over CC 100 times out of 100, but if we’re serious about CC its probably because tony or arte have gotten some information or vibes that indicate teixeira may have to be heavily overpaid to come here.

so the question is: is CC sabathia a nice consolation prize?

the answer is yes.

by ihearhowie2.0 on Nov 25, 2008 7:00 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That would be great...

Imagine beating Boston in the first round with Manny batting cleanup, oh sweet revenge. That would sting Beantown like no other.

If Tex is asking for more than 20m/yr, forget him….btw, someone said something earlier about his wife not liking SoCal, is she frickin blind? She can blow up the black card at South Coast, fake & bake in Newport and do the wild thing with the tennis instructor…all in 75 degree weather! If she can’t like it in SoCal then they don’t deserve to be there.

by sfhalofan on Nov 25, 2008 8:50 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

she's probably a whiney spoiled beeatch

and not a very smart one either. Or maybe she doesn’t want the competition. East Coast whiney spoiled beeatch’s don’t like SoCal whiney spoiled beeatchs.

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 26, 2008 8:20 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

???

i know your messin around, but theres more to life than that shit.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 9:59 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

true. I'm just messing around.

I don’t know this woman.
General Rule of Marriage: If the wife ain’t happy, nobody’s happy.
 See “Nagging” in the dictionary.
If, in deed, she doesn’t like SoCal, we shall see where Mark signs. After that we will have a better idea who wears the pants in the family.

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 26, 2008 12:59 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hmmm

this seems to me like to Angels don’t want to repeat 2006.

i think they’ve been telling CC’s people to hold off and wait to sign with the Yankees, as they’ve wanted to do something with Tex. Most likely, CC’s people told the Angels that they needed an offer or they were gonna sign with the Yanks. So now, we are where we are.

if we can get CC for, say 6 years, $126MM i’d say do it. (avg of $21MM/yr)
then, we can get Tex for 8 years (options for 9 and 10), $170MM (avg of 21.25MM/yr)

we’d raise payroll a bit, but can you imagine the revenue coming in??

Figgins LF
Kendrick 2B
Teixeira 1B
Guerrero DH/RF
Hunter CF
Napoli C
Morales RF/DH
Wood 3B
Aybar/Izturis SS

Sabathia
Lackey
Santana
Saunders
Weaver

holy crap.

Kotch would've had that.

by howiestheman on Nov 25, 2008 9:11 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like....EXCEPT

Morales THEN Napoli………

or am I the only one that enjoyed watching Morales start the back to back to back HRs with Naps and Wood, THEN start the back to back with Naps a few days later?

Plus Morales will have a higher BA than Naps so that = More RBIs

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Nov 25, 2008 10:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Naps has more power

and will drive in more runs.

really, they’re interchangeable, but i like Naps high up. ideally, i’d actually bat him 5th, then Torii 6th.

Kotch would've had that.

by howiestheman on Nov 25, 2008 10:32 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think its one or the other

theres an article on CBSsportsline.com that has a lot of interesting nuggets not being reported on the other sites: namely that an Angels team doctor sees something in Teixeira’s knee that has them unwilling to go over 6 years on him.

they also have a source that says the angels’ interest in peavy has picked up as well.

imagine this:

sign CC
trade adenhart, jepsen, trumbo, willits (or something) for jake peavy

Rotation:
Lackey
Sabathia
Peavy
Santana
Saunders

and guess what: that makes weaver trade bait for offense.

call me crazy, but that sounds shockingly do-able in the event the angels really are moving on from Teixeira. It also gives Acuda his dream of Morales getting some ABs

by ihearhowie2.0 on Nov 26, 2008 9:53 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

great

but i think its 1 or the other. it doesn’t really matter which 1. i would perfer Peavy then CC. just because he comes financially cheaper and hes as good in my opinion.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 10:03 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that doesn't mean

we couldn’t go for 6 or 7 years guaranteed with a few options.

i still maintain that our problem wasn’t pitching… it was hitting. as awesome as it would be to have that rotation (which is STACKED, btw) it still just ignores our biggest need. that’s basically the equivalent of Congress throwing billions of dollars around at nothing instead of fixing the problem.

and if you think the Padres take that offer, you’re nuts. it would most likely be Weaver, good pitching prospect, Willits and solid infield prospect.

Kotch would've had that.

by howiestheman on Nov 26, 2008 10:13 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What bat is available to trade for?

Teixeira............Everything else can wait.

by hauldog on Nov 26, 2008 12:56 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here are my guesses for bats that we could acquire via trade:

In no particular order,

1) Ryan Ludwick (We need a bat, the Cardinals need middle infielders. We have middle infielders. It seems like a reasonable match.)

2) Kosuke Fukudome (Not really a big bat but the Cubs seem to want to get rid of him and we want to get rid of HGH Jr. Trade a bad contract for another bad contract? Who knows, maybe HGH will be better when healthy and maybe Kosuke will be better now that he has had a full year to adjust to the major leagues.)

3) Prince Fielder (He’s a Boras client and the Brewers seem to think they won’t be able to hang onto him once he’s eligible to hit the open market. They’d probably want pitching and if we sign CC, we’d have more flexibility to trade from our pitching depth. CC and Prince reunion in Anaheim?)

4) Garret Atkins (It’s pretty clear that the Rockies want to unload him. I’ve already expressed my extreme disinterest in Atkins but that doesn’t mean he can’t be had in a trade.)

5) Adam LaRoche (Why not? The Pirates are in perpetual rebuilding mode and they already traded away quality players such as Jason Bay, Xavier Nady, and Damaso Marte for practically nothing.)

6) Adrian Beltre (The Mariners are rebuilding and teams such as the Dodgers and Twins have already expressed interest in him. I can’t see the Mariners dealing him to their division foe but anything is possible. Plus, my trade list is whored up with National Leaguers so I needed a reason to throw in an American League player.)

I’m too lazy to think of any more right now…

by Chzburger Jones on Nov 26, 2008 3:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

out of those 6

3 of them suck (Fukudome, LaRoche, Atkins).
Beltre doesn’t know how to get on base.

i’d be okay with either Prince of Ludwick.

Kotch would've had that.

by howiestheman on Nov 26, 2008 4:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh yeah

why not try to kick the tires on either Dan Uggla or Jorge Cantu, if we’re going the trade route?

Kotch would've had that.

by howiestheman on Nov 26, 2008 4:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thoughts

1. i’m not too crazy about trading for a career yr type of guy. wouldn’t we have to buy high and hope he is for real?
2. not bad but i would rather have GMJ defense over Fukudome.
3. intriguing, it would depend who we actually give up. Ryan Howard, if the Phillies think the same way about Fielder.
4. i only like Atkins if he’s a 2nd bat behind a better bat.
5. way under the radar. good idea. and he’s going to be a FA soon. so time for the Pirates to clean house.
6. Beltre is intriguing also, just depends on what we give up.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 4:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GMJ's defense

is only good in CF. He sucked miserably as a corner outfielder this past season. I don’t know how much of it had to do with his bum knee, but he sure sucked it up in left and right last season. Hell, he even kinda sucked in center though he barely played it.

by Chzburger Jones on Nov 26, 2008 6:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Zito

sucked before the signing and he still sucks. don’t compare Zito with CC. thats joke

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 10:01 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cards fan here...

…I’ve been advocating that the Cards trade with either the Angels or Braves for middle infielders. You’ve got too many and the Cards don’t have any. How about Glaus for either Kendrick or Aybar. Kendrick, especially is easily replaceable at 2B by Rodriguez, Figgins or Wood and Glaus brings alot more offense to the hot corner than you currently get with Figgins.

Plus…it would be a homecoming…

by sabertooth5185 on Nov 26, 2008 11:07 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

actually, Aybar is more easily replaced

we have Izturis, Wood, Rodriguez and Figgins that can all play SS.

and if we traded Glaus for Aybar straight up, i’d be all over it.

Kotch would've had that.

by howiestheman on Nov 26, 2008 11:11 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Glaus

i would want Glaus back if Teix isn’t back before we go after Dunn or Burrell, hands down. Aybar and a fringe pitcher for Glaus i would do.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 12:46 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the words Glaus & back should never be used in the same sentence.

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 26, 2008 4:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wondering

what you have against Glaus? he’s power bat at the corner INF. good glove. i get a sense alot of Angels fans don’t like Glaus. i never understood that.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 4:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From what I've picked up in hearsay over the last few years

He was apparently not a good clubhouse guy at all—very into himself.

He was on steroids and/or hgh for at least part of his time with the club—he’s definitely admitted to it, and I think he was mentioned in at least one of the reports.

He’s also said—around the last time rumors were swirling that we might trade for him, in July 2007—that he doesn’t necessarily want to come back to Anaheim.

Trust me, I love the guy, too, but it’s possible his time in Anaheim is forever behind him and the team.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Nov 26, 2008 7:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Glaus

thats too bad. hopefully its not true. i’m pretty sure he’s clean now, so he obviously didn’t really need it. i think he has a good fluid swing.

by HALO_86 on Nov 26, 2008 10:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wood could learn from that

his swing, i mean.

Kotch would've had that.

by howiestheman on Nov 26, 2008 11:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

possibly referring to back problems?

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 28, 2008 12:35 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How about...

Glaus and Ankiel for Kendrick and Aybar?

by sabertooth5185 on Nov 26, 2008 12:21 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's intruiging

but no. i wouldn’t do it. it kinda kills out middle infield.
we’d have Figgins and 2B, and Wood or Izturis at SS…. when Figgins leaves, Izturis or Rodriguez could take over, but i’d much rather have Howie.

Kotch would've had that.

by howiestheman on Nov 26, 2008 12:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's 2 1-year rentals for 2 high quality players under team control for a few years...

…I might take both Glaus and Ankiel for one of them. Arte probably wouldn’t though because he doesn’t like juicers.

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 26, 2008 12:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anyway...

…haven’t you guys had enough Angels re-treads yet?

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 26, 2008 12:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

howie was talked about being the central part of a trade for Miguel Cabrera last year

now the central part of a trade for a 32 year old player on his decline. and we dont need rick ankiel unless we could get rid of GMJ, we have too many outfielders (GMJ/Vlad/Torii/Willits/Morales and possibly moving figgy over). Glaus it too expensive, and kendrick and aybar are high ceiling guys. no way id do this. Ludwick for Aybar and Willits would be a thought though, but id be very reluctant to part with Kendrick.

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 28, 2008 12:43 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cmon

your right we have too many OF, don’t need Ankiel at all, especially because he’s in his last yr and also a Boras client.

to say a 32yo is on decline is stretching it bit i think. Glaus has been consistent over the last 4 yrs since he’s left the Angels. i think HK is untouchable for another yr. we invested too much time into him to sell low right now. but to say Aybar is high ceiling is being too optimistic. what more do u expect from Aybar? what improvement from what we have seen do u expect from him?

Ludwick is interesting because he’s still relatively young. Aybar and Willits for Ludwick. cmon i know we don’t want to give up good players but the only way to get quality is to trade quality back.

by HALO_86 on Nov 28, 2008 10:31 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Aybar has a high ceiling because...

Hes 25, hits for a decent average, speedy, plays SS and is an elite fielder. Elite you say? Yes elite. In total, he was 5 runs below average batting wise, and 9 fielding runs above average (good for fourth in the league in only 98 games). That puts him as a +4 run player above average (and a +33 runs above replacement player). That makes him good for a +3.6 wins above replacement over the course of a season. And he plays SS. And hes 25.

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 28, 2008 12:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also about glaus

his second half numbers were down a bit.
But more importantly, his LD% is down, his GB% is going up, his FB% is going down, his HR/FB was at a career low last year.
Im not saying hes not going to be good, because next year he will probably post somewhere in teh range of .259/.360/.480 which would be great for the angels, but i dont think he will be able to sustain those numbers for long, and in 2 or so years we can get similar numbers from Wood/Srod for cheaper without having to give up alot of prospects to get them.

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 28, 2008 12:26 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not sold on the high ceiling with Aybar at all

has strong arm and range but he lacks the intangibles that a SS needs to bring to the yard

Take a look at his numbers against the rest of the league. Innings played is a lot less then those above him on this link. Heck the SS for KC played better D

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&season=2008&seasonType=2&split=82&sortOrder=true&sortColumn=errors&qualified=0

Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee

by Angel Aviator on Nov 28, 2008 6:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

saying that the kansas city player was better as an argument really doesnt hold any water

and fielding percentage really isnt that great of a stat. Aybar gets to balls most SS cant get to. He makes errors on some of those. Normal SS dont reach them and dont get the E. im not saying aybar will be the next miguel tejada, but as a slap hitting slick fielding SS he has definite value, and most teams would be happy to have him

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 29, 2008 12:00 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He has value

key is not to over value it. He doesn’t have high enough ceiling to not consider him in any trade talks. You ask any manager in the big leagues and they will take the guy that makes the routine play and makes the spectacular play every once in awhile over the guy that makes the web gem and kicks the routine ball.

As I said in my earlier post I personally don’t think he has those leadership qualities you look for in your everyday big league SS. Sell high why there is still those that think he is a young slick fielding SS. It would be a trade that I myself would be more then willing to make for the right SP or Stick.

Have you ever really seen Aviles play? Guy can play the game .329 batting average in 102 games, with 10 home runs and 51 RBI’s. I think you should take a look at the guy’s fielding as well. Guy had a zone rating of .849 while Ebyar had one slightly higher at .856 take a look at the guy and you will see he can carry a pail.

Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee

by Angel Aviator on Nov 29, 2008 12:21 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i know, aviles is good

i was just responding to someones comment that KCs SS was outperforming ours and responding by saying that it doesnt matter what KCs SS is doing. And i still think trading Aybar is the best course of action, but devaluing him will lead us to trade him away for a bucket of balls when we could get alot more for him.

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 29, 2008 8:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

who cares

if he gets to some balls that most SS don’t get to. if he commits an error on those plays it can hurt us more then him not making that play.(if that makes any sense) yeah most teams would be happy to have him, i would too, if we didn’t have soo much depth at that position. we have to trade our strength to help our weakness.

by HALO_86 on Nov 29, 2008 10:09 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

its not always just a 1-1 correlation

assuming aybar makes only errors on routine plays, subtracting his FP from league average FP (for SS) should tell us how many more percent of routine plays he messes up. How much more? 1.23% more than league average (he messes up). How many balls does he get to? The average 2008 ZR (balls with out recorded/ balls hit in the zone) for SS was .753. Aybars was .856 (the most of any player with at least 90 games played btw). thats 13% more than league average. Thats 13% more balls that Aybar can get to than the average ss. That means that of the 434 balls that aybar made a play on (converting 416 of those into outs), the average SS would make 398 outs. Thats roughly 18 plays above average. so for every ball that aybar messes up above average, he makes 18 plays above average to even them out. (this doesnt even take into account all the balls aybar gets to but doesnt make an error or an out on, causing a double or triple to be turned into a single)

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 29, 2008 8:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Stats

i’m not going to dispute the stats. i have np with stats like that. i think Aybar is a good SS i just think we’re deep in that position so if we have to trade him its ok to me as long as it returns someone who is going to help an area of weakness on our club. its the added wins and loses stats that piss me off. how does 1 compute that in relative to an actual game?

by HALO_86 on Nov 30, 2008 10:27 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

check out fangraphs stat called WPA

its statisctically proven (through studying every single situation in baseball and how many runs were scored and how every play affects the average runs scored). For example if the average team scores one run with the bases loaded and 2 outs, and the batter hits a two run single, he has 1 run added to his WPA. if he strikes out, than he has 1 run taken off. using pythagorean win expectancy, you can figure out how many wins it was worth.
This helps value plays properly. For example, an error with no outs with the bases loaded is much more costly than an error with 2 outs and nobody on base

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 30, 2008 1:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry about the double post

My computer is kinda F’d up right now. Feel free to delete this and the re-post.

by Chzburger Jones on Nov 29, 2008 11:38 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

interesting

I hate to see the Yankees get another pitcher? But I also have to wonder if CC is going to turn into the next Bartolo Colon. I know this may sound crazy, but I live in Chicago and saw the way Milwaukee abused that arm. And don’t get me wrong, I want to see CC in Angel Red but I would hope the plan is also to keep Texiera.

by Ralley Monkey on Nov 29, 2008 8:05 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

abuse

are you serious? you think a guy like CC is going to go out there and let an organization abuse his arm? esecially going into FA. he did what he can do. over using a arm is a joke in my opinion. i know i read somwhere Dice-K in Japan use to throw 150-200 pitches a game. its all about how you treat your body and train it. i think he’s a big guy who knows what he can do and can’t.

by HALO_86 on Nov 30, 2008 10:31 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

japan is a different story

read the verducci effect
CC wanted to get to the playoffs so bad that he put his team above himself. Stupid in my opinion, but it did get him alot more money (presumably) by looking like a great team player. Hes gonna make his 23+ Million whether he sits his ass on the DL now

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 30, 2008 1:31 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

why

is it stupid to do that.(putting the team on his shoulders) isn’t that what you want in a teammate. if he is the best option to help you get in the playoffs instead of whatever SP they were going to throw that day instead. its not like the Brewers forced him to pitch, he wanted the ball. imagine a SP refusing to pitch on short notice because he thought it was going to effect his off season. to me that shows he cares about the team then someone looking out for himself. its not like he was hurt trying to pitch on short rest.

by HALO_86 on Nov 30, 2008 1:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

for all we know, CC could have been hurt

unlikely, but with CC being a rental, the brewers were not gonna take great care of him. it is definetly admirable what CC did down the stretch, and i just hope it doesnt have any lingering effects

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 30, 2008 4:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

verducci effect

quick scan on that was the effect on young arms? CC is a vet. i think its a diff story but i understand your point.

by HALO_86 on Nov 30, 2008 1:50 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the verducci effect is mostly for youngsters

but the point remains valid for all players. Overwork causes injuries.
check out the pitcher abuse points which is really helpful in predicting whether a pitcher is a high injury risk
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=204015

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 30, 2008 4:42 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

just a little pointer

2007s leaders for PAP (pitcher abuse points) were:
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Carlos Zambrano
A.j. Burnett
Roy Halladay
Aaron Harang
Bronson Arroyo
Livan Hernandez
Matt Cain
Justin Verlander
Oliver Perez
Gil Meche
Barry Zito
Tom Gorzelanny

all of these pitchers (with the exceptions of cain, bunett, holliday and meche) either pitchde substantially less innings, or had a much higher ERA this year.

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 30, 2008 4:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

pap

so wouldn’t it be better to see if they were injured for long period of time this yr instead of ERA or IP, only because those 2 stats can be relative to the season the team was having from 07-08.

by HALO_86 on Nov 30, 2008 5:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not neccesarily

if someone was overworked last yaer, he is no longer able to pitch deep into ballgames since he tires easier. And ERA is relevant because when pitchers are tired, they see jumps in thier era. if a pitcher is alot less effective then a likely reason is that he was injured (it also could mean defense got alot worse, but unless the defense was amazing last year and crap this year, it wouldnt affect greatly)

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 30, 2008 10:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i see

your point in the ERA but not in innings pitched. i would have to assume a full off-season is enough for a pitcher to recover from being overworked. i can see the ERA point because there can be pitchers who pitch through pain and not be as effective.

by HALO_86 on Dec 1, 2008 10:17 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

same thing for innings pitched

if the pain is too severe after the 6th inning, then he only pitches 6 innings. The difference between going 6 innings and 7 innings over the course of 30 starts is 30 innings pitched, which is decently substantial
also the full offseason isnt always the case with teams going into playoffs potentially, and if the arm needs surgery or was injured it could take alot longer than the offseason

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Dec 1, 2008 6:53 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So now its a problem when an athlete competes

I would take CC in my foxhole anytime. Guy competes and plays to win. Most of todays players I wouldn’t take to a rock fight. Anytime a player puts himself second its a breath of fresh air and your calling that stupid. You must of grown up riding your bike with a helmet and drinking bottled water.

Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee

by Angel Aviator on Nov 30, 2008 2:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

let me clarify

i didnt mean stupid as in putting the team above himself, i meant stupid as in pitching 4 games in a 12 day span or so. obviously it is better when you put the team above yourself, but the brewers obviously took advantage of him because they knew that CC would not pitch in Milwaukee next year. CC has lead the league in innings in each of the past 2 years. Nobody has pitched that much without getting injrued in the past 25 years. Im not saying that CC is 100% guarenteed to live on the DL the next 7 years, but the team that signs him should be very careful and limit his innings next year to make sure he is going to be 100% healthy with no ill effects.

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 30, 2008 4:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if you look at CCs baseball-reference.com page

youll see most of his most comparable pitchers have rapid descents and abrupt careers from overwork. but again, there are also a few others that pitched long into their careers with good numbers.

Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere

by anaheim angels on Nov 30, 2008 4:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

CC

the way Sosh uses the SP/BP. i don’t think he will be overused even if he wanted be.

by HALO_86 on Nov 30, 2008 5:06 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

that trading Aybar would be a logical move. We have Izturis, Wood, and S-Rod available to play short. S-Rod’s bat still isn’t major league ready yet but trading Aybar would open up a roster spot for Wood and if they still don’t think his bat is good enough, Izturis can start.

by Chzburger Jones on Nov 30, 2008 12:24 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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