My Thoughts on the Election
From my personal blog, a letter to the rest of the world.
over 3 years ago
Rev Halofan
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AMEN.....God Bless America
Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preach on Rev
Can I get an Amen?
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Specializing in maniac-ball since 2000
Some quick comments
1. Ireland is an independent country that rules itself. Also the Queen of England does not have any “real” power and its obviously hierarchical, so that’s a moot point. Would an person of Pakistani descent ever be Prime Minister? That would be better comparison.
2. China is not a democracy. They are in a one-party system.
3. Mexico is run by Mexicans.
4. That’s it, glad its over.
I love LAC.
good points
1. THANKS for pointing that out – I changed “girl from Ireland” to specify the Irish Catholic minority in Northern Ireland.
2. Which is why they suck and will soon be revealed as the source of more evil (and pollution!) on earth than all of America’s critics can ever lay at our feet.
3. Yes, blue-eyed, white skinned, Harvard-educated ones.
4. It is just BEGINNING!
Also...
1. The Queen has no effective political power. I assume you meant PM.
2. There hasn’t been a Reichstag since WWII. I think you mean the Bundestag. The Bundestag does meet in the Reichstag building, though.
Angels fan since '67
I know we didn't vote for the same candidate...
but I sincerely appreciate that you defend the greatness of this country. I am not an Obama supporter, but I think it is very cool that we have elected a racial minority to the highest office. It absolutely speaks volumes to the greatness of America and the ideal of the Melting Pot. Seriously, what CAN’T be accomplished here? I hate when people accuse Americans of being ignorant, provincial, and racist. And I also hope to God that this puts an end to race-baiting in this country, but I doubt it. Time for the Dems to step up and deliver what they’ve promised. It’ll be an interesting four years. Overall, I remain optimistic.
and i actually echo Higz's thoughts.
nice post, Rev.
whether i agree with the outcome or not, the beauty of this country is that we just freely elected a new leader.
Kotch would've had that.
Addtional consolation:
You have a super-hot girlfriend (no offense).
Me too!
You know what? Fuck this election. It’s over, and relatively speaking it’s goddamn boring. I’m gonna go squeeze up against that warm ass. Haha.
hahahahahaha
thanks, Higz.
i totally dig my super-hot girlfriend. =D
time to buckle up and hold on for the ride, huh?
Kotch would've had that.
panthers to you and ajax
you guys battled against opposition all day. good job. prop 8 is going the “yes” route as of now.
thank you sir.
i appreciate it.
i actually do enjoy getting into politics… i just tend to get “passionate”, which is why i stayed out of the last thread.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 4, 2008 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
i can't get into political discussions at all
just get too pissed off. we have Obama now and i’m gonna pray these next 4 years are good for this country.
I enjoy engagement
And it’s good to “engage” an opponent such as you. Though I still think some of your statements were more than a little “out there,” I know you likely thought the same of some of mine.
I’m glad we can have these discussions without having to fear being shot for our respective opinions.
Light Up That Halo!
that's why teh internetz are so great
we can yell, curse and call each other names without fear of any repercussions.
nice chat, Clutch.
Kotch would've had that.
he wasnt kidding
if that gf was a president she’d be baberaham lincoln
by ihearhowie2.0 on Nov 4, 2008 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
Definitely agree with you here.
I watched howiestheman and a few others get bombarded in the election threads yesterday and felt terrible but just couldnt bring myself to participate (sorry howies). unification in our dividing country is going to be paramount in our survival and prosperity. I have always been proud to be an American and today is certainly no different. good luck and God bless as its time to move forward.
I'm your huckleberry
by autry's cowboys on Nov 5, 2008 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
Communism doesn't work.
… Good job idiots. Capitalism is what made America great.
You deserve every bullshit thing that Obama has promised you.
Someone is very angry tonight.
Not even China is communist anymore. Increased social spending is not communism, but I guess thats just easier for you to hate him if you think he’s a communist.
Someone doesn't know history tonight.
America became great because of Capitalism. Obama OPENLY wants to redistribute wealth.
by Red on Nov 4, 2008 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
I never said we didnt
America became great because of Europe’s ability to destroy itself. Capitalism also helped.
And I’m 99% sure that come January we wont be the United Socialist States of America, despite all your misguided hatred and fear.
And I’m a history major, so yeah I probably know a thing or too about history. :)
quick quiz without looking it up
Do you know of the peterloo massacre?
i just remember it cuz i took AP Euro last year (got a fucken 5 on the AP ;) ) and it has a cool name
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 4, 2008 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
something about cavalry charging a crowd in london or somewhere in england
and some people dying. named after waterloo.
havent take euro in a couple years though
basically yes
In the 1840s there were revolts throughout europe, and the only noteworthy one was in england, where a bunch of people gathered on a field, and the british army fired into the crowd
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 4, 2008 11:54 PM PST up reply actions
its a sad day when one loses all fire and goes for the internet grammar attack
And yes, dont start sentences with prepositions. :)
Oh yeah... SO sad...
Let me just revert back to the definition of Socialism, Marxism and Communism… that you all keep trying to argue against.
I really dont understand why youre so angry
I’m personally happy that we can have elections without violent revolution. Ok, your side lost…not everyone is a winner. This isnt the end of times, and the United States in all reality wont radically become the United Socialist States Of America over the next four years. Marxism isnt our thing, neither is Communism. I mean it wasnt during the New Deal, and thats probably the closest you’ll ever see this country get. The US is a lot more right than the rest of the developed world, and thats a good thing. Thats not going to change.
You're not making any sense
I’d like to suggest you go look up those very definitions.
Then tell us how Obama in any way will implement those.
Maybe you can also acquaint yourself with our Constitution and the structure of our government.
Then tell us how, even if Obama believed ANY of those things, he would ever accomplish those things.
Then get back to us.
Light Up That Halo!
Also
The McCarthyist era of being able to blanket-label any and all of your opponents as Communist/Marxist and get away with it is over.
It has been for fifty-three years.
Light Up That Halo!
OBAMA IS A MARXIST...
I don’t have to label him as such. He IS one by definition.
YOU DESERVE IT since you helped elect him!!!
Prove it
I want links, stories, statements by Obama beyond what you got in your e-mail inbox.
And a posturing list of “I have here in my hands…” ain’t gonna work.
Light Up That Halo!
All this
from a guy who calls himself “Red”
If GA wasn't so Lazy, I'd have something clever here.
by TheTypingFiend on Nov 5, 2008 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
no
i think white, because the white party were the people fighting the red party. then i think that
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 5, 2008 1:12 AM PST up reply actions
i hate that terminology
the parties used to trade off the colors every year, until the concept of “red states” and “blue states” was born in early 1990s/
No
Not really trying to make any points with it, just thought it was vaguely humorous.
Or are we supposed to be deadly serious around here all the time?
Light Up That Halo!
my smiley faces earlier only invited further antagonization
so here’s a bunch
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
its funny in westwood people light couches on fire in celebration of sports achievements
i caught one tonight, but i cant afford to light my own couch on fire
Well, i will say this much...
How the fuck is Noam Chomsky going to sell his brand of indulgent bullshit in the current climate?
With nearly half of Americans TOTALLY against his Socialist, anti-Capatalistic, agenda...
how is OBAMA going to sell his brand of ridiculous, indulgent bullshit?
by Red on Nov 4, 2008 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
NO...
He should do EXACTLY what he campaigned on. I personally want him to do EVERYTHING he said he would.
Only then, will you see how wrong he/you is/were.
You fucking deserve ALL of it.
by Red on Nov 4, 2008 9:35 PM PST up reply actions
Just like we deserved the last 8 years, right?
Don’t be thick.
http://inplaynoouts.blogspot.com/ - A blog about teams I like, written by me.
?
You mean 4 years of prosperity (even with 9/11) before the Democratic Congressional majority the last 4 years?
No, no, no… give us what you promised Obama.
by Red on Nov 4, 2008 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
i love how that keeps getting overlooked
the Democratic Congress REALLY eff’d things up, kids. stop hiding behind your hatred for Bush and ignoring it. Frank, Reid and Pelosi highly eff’d up, yet they get away with murder. why? you never hear about it, and they deny everything.
and it amazes me how many people dismiss that fact.
people only hear what they want to, Red.
Kotch would've had that.
So obviously it's the Democrats
http://inplaynoouts.blogspot.com/ - A blog about teams I like, written by me.
So obviously it's the Democrats' fault.
Sorry. I forgot liberals are always wrong.
http://inplaynoouts.blogspot.com/ - A blog about teams I like, written by me.
didn't say that
sorry for the misunderstanding.
no doubt that everyone has blame in this… conservative, liberal, republican, democrat, independent, black, white, asian, mexican… the list goes on.
BUT the democrats are getting the free pass, because everyone is being told that it’s all Bush’s fault. that irritates me.
Kotch would've had that.
"fault"...
Democrats are very active in rewriting history.
‘Fault’ is a matter of observing history.
Back yourself up
Prove it.
I know you can do it, since your statements are obviously so well-founded.
Light Up That Halo!
Thanks for obfuscating
If you’ve got so much evidence that Obama’s a Marxist, then it should be quite easy for you to start anywhere!
Light Up That Halo!
Marxism/Communism/Socialism is a very broad conecpt...
a debate that i’m eager to have. but you must come with a starting point.
How am I not providing a starting point?
You allege that Obama is a Marxist/Communist/Socialist.
I ask you to back-up/prove that allegation.
You refuse, asserting that I haven’t provided a starting point.
Head asplode.
START. ANYWHERE.
Light Up That Halo!
I'm not even sure what to say to your misplaced anger
If its helps to think the Dems are going to screw everything up go right ahead.
Congress is directly responsible for screwing up our economy and all of foreign involvements and historically low president approval ratings….i forgot.
was that my or Red's misplaced anger?
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Nov 4, 2008 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
Yes
By committee, and amendment, and compromise.
We dont live in a dictatorship. Nor a one party system. You can’t peg things on one party or one leader; thats not how it works. Theres so many cogs in the machine, and its not just Congress all the time.
Well... you can when you use deductive reasoning...
When people talk out of both sides of their mouths… you can peg things.
I'm over it
He’s convinced of the Marxist revolution taking place in the United States. I love Cold War mentality.
jesus christ
seriously.
I forgot that we all stormed the White Palace and overthrew Bush and put Obama, our party leader in place. Tomorrow we get out of that war with Germany, and then give away half our country in a separate peace.
Wait a second, that was over 90 years ago.
In Russia.
Well, technically we try to put Cheney in charge
but hes a hemophiliac, so we just wait a bit, then kill them and thier families. btw, is powell rasputin?
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 5, 2008 1:15 AM PST up reply actions
we just really need a trotsky though
wait, his doctrine sounds an awful like the Bush Doctrine. Now I’m really confused.
wait is snowball trotsky or is napoleon trotsky?
And who are the farmers and who is the horse?
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 5, 2008 1:24 AM PST up reply actions
up is down and down is left
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 5, 2008 9:03 PM PST up reply actions
...
“Obama will re-interpret the US Constitution to allow the government to take wealth from each according to his ability, then he will form a legislative coalition that will bring about redistribution of that wealth according to need.”
this is Marxist ideology.
I was actually asking a question
Income tax has been around since the early 1900s; does that make all of our presidents Marxist then?
I just wanna get this straight.
And neither is calling someone a jackass, but thats neither here nor there.
Marxism by definition has nothing to do with general taxation... you know that.
An unfair tax system that takes from those who worked hard to make more and then give to those who are waiting for a hand-out is unfair.
if you voted against the system that made America great… you are a jackass. call it what you want. I’m not mincing words tonight… i’m pissed.
Well take your definition literally
Taxes increasing on the wealthy (each according to his ability).
Legislative Coalition is Congress.
Redistribution is getting your check in the mail, more if you’re poor. Thats how its been.
And seriously, the un-American, McCarthy language has gotta go. For your own sake.
I dont see any of Obama’s policies seriously pushing redistribution, debates on the meaning of Marxism aside.
Come on Clutch..
His argument IS “Obama is a socialist!”
Each and everytime you’ve asked him to defend his stance he says the same thing. We all know you THINK Obama is a communist Red, but what Clutch wanted to know was WHY you feel that way. Hopefully that cleared it up.
by seamariners85 on Nov 5, 2008 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Good thoughts on the election Rev Halofan.
Right On Man!
Recipient of the 2008 "The Iron Man" award from scottnak of Halos Heaven!
now's the time
now’s the time for the Dems to put up. you said change, now DO IT. i’m skeptical, because our system is resistant to major change. i want the promised change, now LET’S SEE IT.
I see
So, your point is that everything in America is now wonderful, because the country elected a half-black man – and that, only because he got 96% of the black vote, with white voters still backing McCain. Fatuous comparisons with the Queen of England aside, perhaps you should wait until your country has elected – oh, I dunno? – a woman as leader before wagging your fingers at other countries over their electoral record? That’s something the UK did almost thirty years ago, while Germany currently has a female chancellor.
Really, I haven’t read such a lot of sustained, self-satisfied drivel in a long time. I am, however, impressed you still managed to type, while apparently simultaneously patting your entire country on the back with both hands. Electing Obama was an absolute no-brainer: yet he could muster only a narrow majority of the popular vote, at 52%. America no more deserves praise for his becoming president, than an idiot does when he stops banging his head against a brick wall.
It’ll take a lot more than that before America can hope to regain the respect and trust of the rest of the world, something squandered in astonishing and spectacular fashion since 9/11 and the sympathy which resulted. Electing Obama was America’s first step to recovery, not the final one.
Weeelll....
One might argue that in England it’s clear who the leader of a particular party is. So people who voted for candidates of Thatcher’s party knew perfectly well that should that party obtain a majority, Thatcher would be Prime Minister. So they indirectly voted for Thatcher, yes.
Light Up That Halo!
Neither is the Queen
Yet, the Rev has this touching belief that the UK sucks, entirely because there’s no career path towards becoming a hereditary monarch.
Yeah
That viewpoint really worked out for the likes of, I don’t know, Germany, Russia, China, Napleonic France…the list goes on.
Light Up That Halo!
seriously?
these countries have rejected their Socialistic leanings recently to swing back towards a conservative/capitalistic form of government.
Yet your point
Is that the opinion of the rest of the world doesn’t matter.
How does this back you up?
Light Up That Halo!
You're the one making the point that the "world" doesn't respect us.
I point out that the socialistic countries that you mention (and the direction that we’re headed) have all swung back towards a capitalistic form of government.
NO… the opinion of others does not matter. We should all act in the best interest of us individually.
Their opinion no
Their relations and trade with us…yes. We can’t piss off the world and just say oh we dont need you anyways.
The US is already more conservative than many of the other developed nations. Them swinging right is more indicative of moving towards where the US is, and we are now moving slightly left with Obama’s election. Europe is still far more liberal and socialist than the United States (as a whole); but this is also due to bad economy=rejection of incumbent leadership.
oh about cutting tariffs on US exports while still keeping all the import duties on our imports
Yeah that sounds great.
the irony is that agreements like CAFTA and NAFTA actually hurt the US more than anything
But Obama hates the US, and we only should fend for ourselves so this makes total sense.
yes, we need to act in the interest of our country
but that means that we NEED the support of our allies to create a peaceful world. we can’t do it by ourselves — the world is too integrated via economics and culture/propaganda. in today’s world, we cannot say “fuck you” to the rest of the world and expect to have security and economic prosperity.
Um, no I didnt' "point[ ] out that the world doesn't respect us"
And, again, the politics of those countries HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR RESPECT FOR US IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY.
Light Up That Halo!
certainly not the final step
but recognize that the most diverse large country in the world — and the most successfully integrated — has finally elected a (half) black president. it’s a huge step in our country, but that is not the reason for his election. there’s no way a candidate can be elected in this climate without policies the american people support. obama was not elected because of his race, but because of his policies.
and while it may seem to you a “no-brainer”, you obviously have little knowledge of american politics to understand the complexities that go into electing an american president. scoff if you must, but for america we need this moment in history. we need change, and it will be up to the next administration and congress to deliver it. now’s the fucking time. do no fuck up.
i think obama will make strides to regain america’s standing in the world. we need it. it is crucial, not only in worldwide efforts to combat terrorism, but to re-establish america as a benevolent power in the world, thereby promoting peace in a world that is in dire need of peaceful leadership. that is the only way to encourage peace in the world and to tell terrorists that we will not tolerate them.
Democrats
Democrats always get 90+ of the black vote. Getting to 52 of the vote is a major accomplishment for any party in the current political climate.
by HungryHunter on Nov 4, 2008 11:35 PM PST up reply actions
Half-Black?
He couldn’t catch a cab in Manhattan – he is black. I don’t expect you to have a detailed grasp of America, you have been raised on a vision of America, not anything approximating “reality”…
YES
and the US has its own racial problems. but the US has been more successful, to date, at integrating the various minority groups into enfranchised groups, albeit with some challenges, than most european countries. they are just beginning to experience the influence of immigrant groups into the democratic process.
true
we’ve got our ass-backward things, but in the case of racial harmony, i think we’re far more advanced than the critics might want to acknowledge.
don’t get me wrong — we’ve got alot to do in this country. but for homogenous nations to criticize us when we have problems is overlooking their own challenges of immigration and indigenous disenfranchised citizens.
i love france (i’m a big francophile and french culture student), but they have their own racial problems, just like the US and many euro states do.
I guess my last eight years living here
Must have been an illusion rather than ‘reality’. Brought on by too many free soda refills, I guess.
I think the Manhattan comment says a great deal about America, even if intended as a joke. So much for a subsequent comment, “In the case of racial harmony, i think we’re far more advanced than the critics might want to acknowledge.” Yeah, if you consider SWAT teams storming public libraries in the middle of the night to arrest three brown-skinned janitors as advanced, I suppose.
There are a lot of amazingly great things about America [let’s start with the First Amendment], but it’s the refusal to accept the possibility of alternative approaches to civilization being possible – expressed so clearly in your piece – that has helped make the country somewhere between a laughing-stock and a figure of hate to the rest of the world.
Pullin out the woman as a leader card?
What about the USs biggest ally, israel? Golda meir, over 40 years ago ELECTED prime minister. When did anyone really care what england thought anyway? And arent you scottish with the hybrid law system so not entirely british? And when have you elected a half black president/PM? And isnt there still a monarchy in the UK?
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 5, 2008 1:21 AM PST up reply actions
well, that too
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 5, 2008 1:25 AM PST up reply actions
Er, your point being?
I must have missed in all the lost capitalization and absent apostrophes.
by Jim McLennan on Nov 5, 2008 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
you try typing with one hand while shaving and studyin for a precalc test with 8 hours of sleep in the past week
And anyway, you dont even know how to spell color, or center.
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 5, 2008 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
This is a reply specifically to Jim's comment about Obama being half-black.
It is biologically true that Obama is half white and half black. However;
1) He identified himself exclusively as black (not mixed race) since early adulthood.
2) He attended a church for 20 years who’s membership is 99% black, and that – until recent controversy – ascribed to “black liberation theology”.
3) As the Rev pointed out below (the cab comment) he appears to be black, not half-and half.
4) He married a black woman. Black culture is the specific culture with which he most closely identifies.
For all intents and purposes, he campaigned as a black man, and was elected as a black man. So, it is not fair to say we elected a half- black man.
Just a quick correction Rev...
…the chances of us having a catholic Queen who grew up in Ulster are actually much better than you think – all it needs is for William to meet the right girl from that bit of the world (we love a royal romance – the nation would be delighted), marry her (we love a Royal wedding – we get a day off to have a street party), and ascend to the throne, as will be his right (and if there’s one thing we Brits love more than a Royal romance or a Royal wedding, it’s a Coronation) – Hey Presto! – Irish Catholic Queen. And no-one will be happier than the new King’s loyal subjects. We have a fairly long history of Queens that hail from a slightly different background to our own, so it won’t really be anything new.
If on the other hand, I’ve some how misuderstood you, and this rant is somehow a comment on the perceived limitations of our version of democracy – let me direct you to the definition of Constitutional Monarchy. We fought our Civil War some 130 years before the birth of the United States on our right to self-government, rather than by a King, and it was enshrined as our way of doing things some 40 years later. And we managed to preserve both our history and heritage in so doing (unlike the bleeding French who executed theirs along with their nobility), something of which we are unashamedly proud – which is we love ’Er Maj.
I am, unlike many Europeans, a self-confessed fan of America – its people, its values, its culture (and its sports). And today I personally would like to congratulate you as a nation on yesterday and wish you all the best for the 4 (8?) years to come – and to offer you as a nation some thanks, since your decisions really do affect us all. But I find it really hard to do when the attitude of one of the Americans that I do respect (that would be you), rather than looking forward positively, is one of ‘Fuck you, Rest of the World, you’re all shit’. Every country believes theirs is the best, that’s OK, but yours are the sort of hubristic remarks that makes the rest of us, mistakenly, believe that yours might be one of the worst.
One last thing – let’s not over-emphasise what happened in America yesterday either (because race shouldn’t have a place in politics) – the man with the best policies and best campaign won the popular vote – he will be your next President. Welcome to democracy as it is practiced in most of Europe – it’s just a shame your version was unable to achieve that same cause and effect 8 years ago.
I see red people
by The Limey on Nov 5, 2008 10:49 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
p.s. one last thing...
…I’m an Irish national (my mum’s from County Wicklow) as well as a British citizen, and yes I have been to one of the Queen’s summer garden parties for tea at Buckingham Palace. So that last bit you wrote on Great Britain (emphasis on ’Great’), that was bollocks too.
I see red people
Sorry, forgot one, kind of important...
…your initial point referred to the supposed limits that would be imposed upon a catholic girl from Northern Ireland in our supposedly limited democracy…
I give you Ruth Kelly
Born in Northern Ireland, the grand-daughter of an IRA officer, devout Catholic and member of Opus Dei. Member of Parliament since ’97 and holder of 4 separate cabinet roles in the Blair and Brown governments.
I should probably have mentioned her sooner, but clean forgot – you see, no-one cares about that sort of background in the UK. It’s irrelevant.
I see red people
Your scenario is cool
less likely than a black man in america becoming president and not involving the people at all.
And the hubris comes from the constant smug scolding of everyone else on earth telling us “what is wrong” or “what needs to change” about the U.S. … it gets old, never a “what is right about america” month among the scolds who refuse to accept deep criticisms form abroad.
Yes indeed, but as you should know...
…everyone’s a critic. Particularly when so much of what you do affects us in ways that we have no control over. Many smaller nations outside of America feel disenfranchised by the current US hegemony in international affairs – particularly when so many of your compatriots seem to care little for what goes on outside your borders. It creates a bitterness that we would do well to recognise and put aside.
I, for one, would be happy to sponsor a “what’s right about America day” – we actually like you more than you think, and I am, as I’ve admitted, a fan. But it’s never as much fun as the alternative – and we’re embittered cynics on this side of the pond, and we still resent the fact that we don’t have an empire anymore.
How was the party? What happened with the gay marriage proposition?
I see red people
I believe you inadvertently hit on a big part of the "problem".
Yes, everyone is a critic. But the critics very often are unfair in their criticism.
Part of the problem I perceive is that the world (or more specifically our left-of-political-center critics in the world) complains about the USA no matter what we do. So, we are damned if we do, damned if we don’t.
You wrote above about "US hegemony in international affairs". I am not sure what definition you ascribe to the term "hegemony". For the sake of argument, I will assume you mean our "dominance" in international affairs. Please give your top 3 examples of "US hegemony in international affairs".
As you list these 3 – and in attempting to be a responsible critic – please give a short sentence or 2 providing realistic options to our "hegemony".
In response to your question on the gay marriage proposal (or to be more precise, the amendment that stipulates marriage is between one man and one woman), it currently appears that the amendment won 52% to 48%.
Ooh! Pick me!
Please give your top 3 examples of “US hegemony in international affairs”. As you list these 3 – and in attempting to be a responsible critic – please give a short sentence or 2 providing realistic options to our “hegemony”.
1. De-stabilization of the Middle East by the invasion of Iraq for reasons that are widely-regarded as entirely fictitious. No power basically possesses the military might and/or will to invade a country on the other side of the world.
Alterrnatives: not invading sovereign territories on spurious grounds. Not being a lap-dog for Israel would help too.
2. America’s massive contribution towards global warming, through the output of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, in volumes that far surpass other countries.
Alternatives: Stop taking a head in the sand approach, basically denying the issue exists, and instead working with the rest of the world to address the problem.
3. The global impact of the American financial crisis, threatening banks, businesses and governments around the entire world.
Alternatives: better regulation, to prevent this rank mismanagement and fraudulent financial practices. When your economy is the engine-room of the world, you need to make sure it doesn’t blow a gasket.
I’m pretty confident Obama is going to address all of these issues, and the entire world will be delighted to support him in doing so.
1. I think you got the Israel relationship backwards. You would see a US military presence in Israel if this were the case.
But this not a problem unique to America. Britain also jumped on the bandwagon, you cant cite well the public was against it because well…most of the American public is currently against it as well.
China and Russia also have the problem of occupying/invading other sovereign nations. It just doesnt get much play in the world media, which is the point here. Its not right, but its not a uniquely American problem.
2. I dont think we’re not pretending it doesnt exist. Yeah Eruope is now doing the carbon emissions trade off and its a good thing. But again the reason we didnt sign Kyoto is because it didnt apply to China and India, so-called “developing” nations. Its a world problem, and I hope we can all fix this. Again, this is not unique to America.
3. The economy will never be perfect. There will always be booms and busts. But i’d like to say we’re at addressing the issues rather than pretending they dont exist in hopes of staving off a depression rather than a recession. Many European countries are also not fiscally responsible with enormous social spending, and frankly thats not really the US’s fault.
I understand where you’re coming from, and I think Obama is going to do a great job in addressing all these issues. Its just America has the same problems as other countries; they arent simply unique to us.
Britain also jumped on the bandwagon, you cant cite well the public was against it because well…most of the American public is currently against it as well.
Oh, they are now, and that’s part of the reason for Obama’s success. But at the time? Here’s an interesting chart. Only ten percent of Britons supported the war on the terms under which it eventually took place [without UN approval], less than one-third of the figure in the US. Two-thirds in the US favored some kind of military action. That’s a far higher proportion than voted for Obama…
On global warming, America put out more CO2 than China and India combined, with their two billion people – so any solution has to start with the US, not in the third world. I’ll quote John Kerry on this one, “The Kyoto Treaty was flawed. I was in Kyoto and I was part of that; I know what happened. But Bush didn’t try to fix it, he just declared it dead, ladies and gentlemen. And we walked away from the work of 160 nations over 10 years. You wonder why it is that people don’t like us in some parts of the world. You just say, Hey, we don’t agree with you, good-bye”
Britain committed troops to Iraq. Thats all im saying. Im not sure what link youre trying to put between initial support for the war and the percentage that voted Obama. Of course people would support initially on the pretenses given and also given the recent 9/11 event. You cant represent an entire country by their leaders, and thats what im trying to say.
And youre looking at per capita emissions. China and India do emit more, just not per capita. Kyoto was flawed, Bush wasnt right in his actions but it was a flawed treaty that didnt address these countries. He was right in not signing it, but not right in the way he went about it.
Emissions are a problem, but its gotta be something everyone addresses. And thats the issue here.
The difference is, America’s leaders went to war with the support of their people (at the time). Britain’s leaders did not – even with the lies and deceit, those outside America were just not fooled. I do agree, you can’t represent an entire country by their leaders. And, similarly, changing a leader does not change an entire country – or allow them to sit back smugly and say, as the Rev did, “Why can’t your backwards little burgs get their act together?”
I stand [somewhat] corrected on the emissions thing, as the data I was using was from around the millennium. However, more recent info, per Wikipedia, shows America still ahead of China by a billion tons per year or so. Again, I agree it’s a global issue: but walking away from any negotiations is not the way for a supposed leader of the free world to act.
oh no not at all
the emissions really are a serious global problem.
I understand how the pretenses looked to the rest of the world at the time, but they were fairly legit to the American people, and you cant really fault us for that.
But the other thing is that a historically underrepresented minority in our country is now our leader, and this is a big step forward. I dont think we deserve so much credit, but yes it would be nice if the world did move forward.
CO2 emissions
Latest estimates on a total (not per capita) basis, China has only recently overtaken the US in 2006 – certainly wasn’t the case when Bush pulled out. The US still emits almost 4 times as much as India – a country of over a billion. On a per capita basis, the US actually comes in 10th behind a handful of Gulf states who clearly have air conditioning issues.
The US is still responsible for about 20% of total emissions, whilst representing about 4.5% of the world’s population. China and India are responsible between them for 28% of the worlds emissions, however, they do represent almost 40% of the world’s population. And for the record the respective EU figures are 12% and 8%.
The (in)action of the US, China and India on this topic – 3 nations responsible for 50% of the worlds CO2 was at the turn of the millenium, and continues to be in 2008, frankly inexcusable. At least, however, China and India had the good grace to sign up.
I see red people
wait are we talking about Kyoto?
most of the countries in the world did sign up, but China and India are not apart part of the developed nations group so they are not held to any real protocols, so no harm in them signing.
I just actually realized that the data I was looking out on India was actually future forecasts, and not current numbers. But they are actually expected to overtake US in several years. Rapid industrialization will do that.
This is something that needs to get addressed, Kyoto was/is the wrong way to do it. Unenforceable and does not apply to all countries—not the way to make this work, but thats the problem with any international treaty. The US, I believe, will begin to take bigger strides; the industrialization of China and India do scare me however.
HOW ABOUT EQUAL TIME... JIM
This decade, 90 percent of continental Africa has been transformed into a Chinese colony to extract natural resources. The Chinese empire, complete with compounds where no non-Chinese are permitted to enter in every major town, has conquered Africa and its people… oh yeah, can’t blame America for that one, poor fuckers are being enslaved again and you wanna whine about us being responsible for sunspot activity.
And when...
Some Chinese blogger, running a (very good) baseball site I frequent, links to a whiny post on Election Day, about how his country doesn’t get any respect and it’s now up to the rest of the world to change… I’ll let them know. :-)
I fixed it for you
and doesnt censor what is the greatest source of free information porn in the world. :-)
Chinese blogger
Does not exist.
Of course, British libel laws chill freedom of speech as good as anything HU JINTAO sends the FALUN GONG’s way…
That's horseshit, Rev
You can say anything you want in our media – just make sure it’s accurate and fair. Nothing wrong with that.
When we introduce broad state censorship of our media, I’ll be delighted to concede the point but to draw parallels with the Chinese approach to media management is wildly off-target.
I see red people
I was going to do a point by point response, but I was halfway through page 2
and I was still on your item #1. And I want to head home and get some dinner.
So a simpler question. Do you believe the world would be more stable, less stable, or no different if the USA did not exist?
With that, I am heading home.
Since I've been paying attention
[Probably about the days of Jimmy Carter, basically] It’s been more stable under Democratic administrations, and less stable under Republican ones. That’s the simplest answer to your “simpler question” I can offer. I don’t think the world has been closer to nuclear apocalypse in my lifetime than it was under Reagan, while many of the actions of both Bushes could hardly be bettered as far as destabilizing the Middle East and Central or South America go.
American hegemony/superpower status
I think has been a stabilizing force. The problems have been in relations with the “Third World” or “developing” countries. But I think at least the Western world and “developed” nations have developed a relative (key word) peace through America’s role and through globalizing processes (you dont really wanna take it to the guy whos giving you your food or money)
So the question was
Do you think the world would be more stable, less stable, or no different if the USA did not exist?
Your answer (since the Carter administration) is that the world has been more stabliized by the USA during Democratic administrations and less stabilized by the USA during Republican administrations. That is, the world has been “more stabilized” by the USA during these periods – 1/77 through 1/81, 1/93 through 1/2001 – and “less stabilized” during these periods – 1/81 through 1/93 and 1/2001 to the present.
Is this an accurate reflection of your beliefs? I just want to be sure I have portrayed this correctly before I respond.
That would be about right
However, a couple of caveats. That’s not necessarily equally more and less stable. And you asked a simple question, so I gave you a simple answer. Over-analysis of that would seem fraught with peril. The reality is, of course, a great deal more complex.
Of course the reality is more complex.
I simply wanted to cut to the chase rather than waste a significant effort.
It is absurd to believe the world would be more stable without the USA (and our purported "hegemony") during Republican administrations over the last 30 years.
I also understand that is an article of religious faith held fervently by the “intellectuals” that inhabit western Europe, Scandanavia, the Democratic party in the USA, and other centers of leftist thought. Republicans are fascists. They are BAD by definition. Any good they may have accomplished is merely accidental. Rational thinking and presentation of facts are useless. I might as well argue with the Pope about the right of a woman to have an abortion.
So, I am glad that I did not spend any further time on this. Take care.
Lap do for Israel?
What the hell are you talking about? That makes no sense whatsoever. How is America Israels lap dog? Because Israel is the only country that is democratic in the Middle East? That is complete bullshit. I guess youre just bitter that Israel survived when your British army gave up all their forts and guns and stockades to the Arabs at the end of the Palestine Mandante (hegemony? I think so).
Also, the UN signed off on it, so its not just like America just decided one day “Hey im gonna invade Iraq” and did.
Global warming? Please. Maybe in your small ass narrow european cities you can go from place to place on a train in a few hours, but to get from one end of America to the other takes days if you dont fly. And its not like were not trying to solve the problem. Off shore drilling and alternative fuels arent codewords for “America is #1, control world”. And America is not the only nation that is polluting.
The global impact? Im not really going to get into that because i dont even pretend to know how the hell it works
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 5, 2008 9:17 PM PST up reply actions
thats lap dog
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 5, 2008 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
Several points
1. Israel would not survive if America was not there to prop it up. You may find this chart enlightening. Compare the amount of foreign aid given by America to Israel, to any country with a similar population. For example, in 2005:
Israel: $2,684,100,000
Bulgaria: $50,400,000
Somalia: $42,500,000
2. The UN did not sign off on the Iraq invasion. “On February 24, 2003, the US, the UK and Spain presented a draft resolution to the Security Council which declared that Iraq has failed to take the final opportunity afforded to it resolution 1441.The resolution split the UN and led to serious diplomatic rifts, with the US and the UK coming under sustained criticism from France, Russia and Germany. The resolution was eventually withdrawn,” Link
3. “It’s not like were not trying to solve the problem.” More profit for the energy companies is the priority here, not global warming. How, exactly, is drilling in Alaska or offshore going to significantly reduce carbon emissions? The oil still burns the same way.
1. Democracy will not survive in the middle east if Israel does not stand.
That is the issue. Bulgaria hasnt been involved in 5 wars the past few years. Somailia isnt the most stable at the moment. The fact of the matter is that Israel is forced to spend something like 16% on defense. Thats a huge number. They dont have much free cash laying around.
Are you saying that the US should abandon israel?
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 6, 2008 5:52 PM PST up reply actions
Several Additional points
you are probably not there, and do not care, but ill say them anyway.
Israeli inventions that have become mainstream in America include text messaging, instant messaging, voice mail, etc… Militarily it is beneficial to America because Israel has been and will continue to be the only Pro-USA goverment in the middle east (jordan, egypt, syria all were with the USSR/Iran/anti US/Terrorist groups), and America could use israel as a staging point to reach the entire middle east incase things go boom. Israel took out Iraqs nucleur facility at Osirak before the first Gulf War, and Iraq would have had nukes had Israel not taken action. Joint information sharing is greatly beneficial to the US, and there is collaboration on army training/techniques/technology/defense systems (most recently the Arrow Defense System). Also, of the money the US gives Israel in aid, 75% of it finds its way back in the American economy. The other countries in the Middle East who pose an immediate and direct threat to Israel (the ones that dont openly denounce Israel fund terrorists) have risen their military budget, and Israel, in order to survive, must follow suit
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 12, 2008 12:13 AM PST up reply actions
The hatred for Isreal is bizarre to me...
…especially the hatred tha has cropped up on the political left. Israel has values that very closely mirror those of western European governments (socialist democracies, generally the same personal freedoms). Israel’s tormentors (Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas and to a lesser extent Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan and Egypt) generally have values at odds with those of western European governments (monarchies, theocracies, dictatorships and general repression of personal freedoms).
I am not sure why the left has developed this hatred for Isreal. I can only guess it is either 1) anti-semitism, 2) a fear of the emerging muslim majorities in many European countries and a desire to not offend “muslim sensibilities” ( Don’t want to end up like Theo Van Gogh!), or 3) a combination of the two.
Well, I dont think hatred of Israel is really exclusively a leftist thing.
Being Jewish, i am obviously extremely partial, and have always supported Americas aid to Israel, but never understood how it benefited America. But this past weekend i went to an AIPAC summit in DC and learned that the foreign aid is crucial to achieving Americas interests.
BTW, i saw someone on a streetcorner wearing an angels hat. I was gonna say something, but i was running back to my hotel to catch a bus back to the airport.
Mr Moreno,
Please re-sign Tex.
Sincerely yours,
Halo fans everywhere
by anaheim angels on Nov 13, 2008 8:39 PM PST up reply actions
I do not believe I was clear.
I agree that hatred of Israel is not exclusively a leftist thing (to the extend politics are viewed in a left-center-right continum).
What is surprising is the depth of hatred that appears to have developed in more recent years on the left. The left had been previously looked upon as the “saviors” to Israel and to Jews. That is a part of why so many Jews are left of political center. It is a troubling development in my mind.
what I find interesting about all of this
is that the political party that bashes the US the most and most wants to be like Europe is the same party that was elected last night.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Nov 5, 2008 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
im not sure theres a big lets be like Europe movement in the democratic party
and the whole hating america thing is kinda old too.
Yes
And they get to eat in the same restaurants as everyone else. This would be a fairly recent development in some parts of the United States.
I know you wont like the source, but...
“Benjamin Disraeli [the man who reformed the modern British Conservative Party in the 19th century] envisioned the Conservative Party as the true national party, while the Whigs were merely the party of intellectual ideas. In that time, English intellectuals and progressives were fascinated with German ideas, just as today Democrats are enchanted with European ideas. Disraeli judged: "In a progressive country, change is constant; and the great question is not whether you should resist change, which is inevitable, but whether that change should be carried out in deference to the manners, the customs, the laws and the traditions of the people or in deference to abstract principles and arbitrary and general doctrines.” By championing the vote for the people in a century in which that was inevitable, Disraeli formed a conservative party that dominated British politics for 150 years."
This written by Tony Blankley at http://www.creators.com/opinion/tony-blankley.html.
that still doesnt really prove anything
it would be true if the Democrat party were the party of only the intellectuals and abstract ideals. American parties are not ideologically driven as their European counterparts, and usually formed from coalitions of people from all over the place. Recently both parties have been more ideologically driven, but the new face of the Democratic party is a new coalition that has just recently been formed (a la the New Deal Coalition which gave way to Reaganomics and the neocons which has now given way to this yet unnamed Democratic coalition). There’s no big move in the Democratic Party to imitate Europe; the reason they won now was ability to gather more votes under their platform. (the economy helped as well).
American parties are a different beast that their European counterparts, thats all.
your bias clouds your vision
as mine does at times. However, Obama pretty much only speaks about ideals while very rarely talking specifics, which is where he usually screws up.
i didnt say individuals werent ideologically driven
i said the party wasnt, thats the key distinction
i mean neither party in the US can really afford to, they have to appeal to such a broad base of constituents (over 150 mill if wanna win) and with such a divergence of opinion across the board in a large country ideologues will only appear to a narrow
group. thats why theres the drive to the center. theres not a whole lot of debate on this, at least in the political science committee.
but agree to disagree i guess
I'm not saying it isnt pleasant
I’m just saying I don’t like how much democrats idealize Europe, especially young and older democrats.
Anyone see the latest South Park episode?
I found the ending incredibly ponderful~
== Resident Point Tallier ==
"We", as referred to the USA by Democrats (not all, but most),
keep stating continuously how they want the USA to be “liked/respected by the rest of the world”. Typically you do not hear these words coming from the majority of Republicans.
Let me just add that I believe BOTH parties are currupt.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
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