2009 Hall of Fame Ballot Thread
by Rev Halofan on Dec 2, 2008 3:55 PM PST
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PrintIn the comments... Pick 'em
• Harold Baines
• Jay Bell
• Bert Blyleven
• David Cone
• Andre Dawson
• Ron Gant
• Mark Grace
• Rickey Henderson
• Tommy John
• Don Mattingly
• Mark McGwire
• Jack Morris
• Dale Murphy
• Jesse Orosco
• Dave Parker
• Dan Plesac
• Tim Raines
• Jim Rice
• Lee Smith
• Alan Trammell
• Greg Vaughn
• Mo Vaughn
• Matt Williams
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For what it's worth...
Bert, Rickey, Dawson, Jack Morris
Pretty sure Rice is going to get in this year, but I would not have voted for him.
Bert, Rickey, Harold Baines, Tim Raines, Lee Smith..
PIPE DREAM: Jim Harbaugh for the Bills next head coach.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 2, 2008 4:15 PM PST reply actions
My choices
Henderson, Blyleven, Rice, Raines, and Mo Vaughn(Just Kidding)
What in the wide wide world of sports is a goin on here?
if people would sto writing about a certain team
the keyword ads would disappear and then all you would have is ads for Nixon – Frost movies…
Blyleven, Henderson, Lee Smith, and McGwire
There I said it, I think he belongs.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
Whoa, wait a minute...
When McGwire used ‘roids they weren’t illegal in baseball, but you have Raines on your ballot and he was cocaine-aided, which was illegal. Coke is okay, but steroids aren’t when talking ablut character?
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
I think you need to draw a distinction...
…between recreational and performance enhancing.
Recreational is a lifestyle decision, Steroids are cheating. There’s a big difference.
The legality or otherwise of steroids in baseball is a reflection on MLB’s poor governance at that time, not whether or not a player was short changing his fellow players and paying fans – which is clearly without doubt.
I see red people
You make an excellent point
and one I didn’t consider.
But I don’t think steroid use in that era was cheating since it wasn’t banned, just an athlete trying to improve his performance. The issue I have with that is, if the player was trying to improve his performance to increase his salary = bad, if he wanted to help his team win = okay.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
Except -
Steroids were illegal when Mac was taking them, even if they weren’t banned by baseball. The difference is that while Raines’ drug use was just as illegal, it wasn’t helping him hit homeruns.
I feel the need, the need...for speed!
I wasn't commenting on a specific roid
Andro may not have been, but most steroids were illegal without a valid prescription, which it’s safe to say that baseball players probably did not have.
I feel the need, the need...for speed!
More to the point though
You said steroids were illegal when Mac was taking them.
Andro is a steroid, and it was not illegal when McGwire took it.
More to the point
Funny how he didn’t make any of these arguments to congress when given the chance.
Cocaine-aided?
What does cocaine aid in, other than making you an incredibly annoying asshole that those who have not participated would like to punch in the face?
And what does drug use really say about one’s character, other than the fact that they are human. Make the argument for steroids as a form of cheating, and there might be a point. But cocaine? Where do we draw the (pardon the pun) line? Is being a drunk a reflection of one’s character? Then say goodbye to Mantle, Ruth, etc. Cheating? See ya, Phil Niekro. And when did it become the Hall’s job to play judge and jury? I’m sure there are plenty of assholes in Cooperstown, both with and without substance abuse problems, and I’m comfortable with that. I came to terms with the fact that ballplayers aren’t gods sometime around ten years of age.
White trashin' the 909
IT BECAME THE HALL'S JOB
When they printed the first ballot which mentions – and has subsequently ALWAYS mentioned – CHARACTER.
McGwire blew it the day he testified before congress.
Well, like I said...
I can see the argument as it pertains to steroids, but my point was really more about the Raines and coke issue. If you equate steroids with cheating, that certainly could be a bad reflection on one’s character. I’m just not comfortable making a judgment of someone’s character based on drug and/or alcohol problems. That’s just me, though.
White trashin' the 909
It's an assumption that a Drug/Alcohol addiction = Bad Character
Kind of like when you go for a drug test for a job and you fail, they don’t hire you. Because they associate drug users with people who have bad character.
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Specializing in maniac-ball since 2000
Yeah, poor choice of words on my part
I wasn’t trying to imply cocaine had any performance enhancements (related to baseball). I think the line is drawn at the legality of the action. Baseball doesn’t have a problem with drinking alcohol until a player gets behind the wheel of their Benz.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
I feel you
But the legality of a substance does not determine its potential for abuse. That being said, I still don’t think it should be a factor in determining one’s spot in the Hall. Jordan Walden’s collar-popping ass is in trouble if he turns out to be as great as we hope.
White trashin' the 909
I was going to say...
The kind your wife is wearing. But I decided that would no more aid in the argument than your attempt at humor. I thought this was the place to express one’s opinion, regardless of the difference. But I guess we could throw sand like the babies around some of the other blogs.
White trashin' the 909
Henderson, Blyleven, McGwire
Agree w/ Wi — Big Mac should be there, juice be damned.
by Big Easy Halofan on Dec 2, 2008 4:53 PM PST reply actions
Blyleven, Grace, Henderson, John, mattingly, smith,
hmmm…. i guess Mcguire too
Go gettem next year, what have we got to lose--Frankie?
Hendo, Big Mac, and Dawson
Not voting for McGwire is just sour grapes. You can’t apply today’s rules to the past, otherwise I’m sure half the hall would come under scrutiny for something.
Bert, Ricky and Dawson
I think Big Mac should be in, but it’s gonna be awhile
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Specializing in maniac-ball since 2000
My god, get Andre Dawson in already
One of the most well-rounded pure baseball players of all time.
Anyone who chose Rice and not Dawson is KUH-RAZY!
Hell yeah...
The Hawk>>>Rice
If Andre played for a good team, or in a ballpark that caters to right handed hitters, he would be in by now. Also, the Hawk was a GREAT defensive player (Rice, not so much), and had speed early in his career (ala Tony Gwynn). The astro turf in Montreal and the crappy teams in Chi-town have doomed him.
My choices
Henderson – obvious
Raines – great base stealer, great OBP guy, underrated
Blyleven – one of the best K pitchers of all time
Trammell – probably the best shortstop of his era (including Ozzie Smith)
Dawson – because I watched the Cubs on WGN growing up
I feel the need, the need...for speed!
the hawk, rickey, tommy john, murph, tim raines, jack morris, blyleven
by Big Bad , "VLAD"! on Dec 2, 2008 9:03 PM PST reply actions
for reals yo
Blyleven, Dawson, Henderson, McGwire, Raines all belong.
Plus I would vote for Orosco, but would not argue that 75% of voters should.
Blyleven, Dawson, Henderson, John, Raines
I doubt all five will make it this time, but those would be who I would vote for… and I think Smith should get in eventually, they need to start adding closers sooner or later, just don’t think it will happen this time…
By the way, I believe this is the last year Tommy John is eligible, or am I mistaken?? I know he has the most wins of any pitcher eligible (288) that is not in the Hall…
Does anyone else...
think the Hall of Fame process is ridiculous? Reading writers’ opinions on who they are going to vote in and who they are not is always so ridiculous, and this first ballot hall of famer issue is getting way out of control. A lot of people apparently aren’t voting for Ricky Henderson because he isn’t a “first-ballot” quality player, same reason Ripken and Gwynn didn’t get 100%. So except for the occasionalrevelation of steriod use, what changes to make someone not a hall of famer one year, and a hall of famer the next? Have they done anything differently? I’m not sure how, but the system should be changed, because it makes me care about the hall of fame less and less each year, when it should be having the opposite effect.
My choices
• Rickey Henderson
• Mark McGwire
• Jack Morris
• Dale Murphy
GA GA he's the man, if he can't do it, no one can
My picks...
• Bert Blyleven
• Andre Dawson
• Rickey Henderson
• Tommy John
• Jim Rice
• Lee Smith
That’s how I see it, anyway.
Tim Raines
People don’t realize how good he was. Everyone HOF voter should take a look at this: http://raines30.com/c20.shtml .
I would also vote for Rickey Henderson (obviously), Bert Blyleven, and Mark McGwire. Alan Trammell is right on the edge for me and I would probably be incilned to vote for him.
I was a huge Dale Murphy fan
but the guy is the epitome of someone who was great that should not be in the Hall
Henderson
is the only one I think should get in. Such an asshole…but such a badass.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Dec 3, 2008 10:36 AM PST reply actions
Henderson
I wouldn’t be offended by Blyleven, but amassing numbers over 22 seasons doesn’t mean as much when Blyleven was never one of the best for 22 seasons. I know Cy Young voting is simply the opinion of the voters, it has to be taken into account that, over 22 years he was never considered the best pitcher for even a single season, much less the second pest pitcher, and was only considered the thirtd best twice. For 18 seasons, he wasn’t even considered to be one of the ten best.
As for McGwire, if character counts, why are there so many assholes already in the Hall of Fame? Ty Cobb was not exactly what I would call a nice guy. Babe Ruth was no shining example of healthy living. Hell, all of the original Baltimore Orioles in the Hall regularly cheated and there’s even a Hall member who murdered his wife. When all is said and done, I think McGwire will end up in the Hall one day because he was one of the best hitters of his era because of how rampant steroid use was at the time and how it wasn’t even illegal. I’m not advocating voting for him, but saying character counts has no precedent in the Hall of Fame.
Nolan Ryan
Never won the Cy Young either. Somehow he snuck in.
And as for McGwire, a known cheater has no place in the Hall.
I do think Raines has a shot, and may deserve a place in Ctown, but not just yet.
Henderson
The rest of the eligibles are anywhere from good to great. Since visiting Cooperstown a couple of years ago, I’ve come to believe that to be enshrined in the HOF, a player has to be better than great. For me, Ricky is the only one that, no-doubt, meets that standard.
The '56 LA Angels (PCL) cap logo...a classic.
Henderson, Raines, and Tommy John
Tommy John because without him, a lot of other pitchers wouldn’t have had careers.
Angels fan since '67
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