As The Smoke Clears...
by Rev Halofan on Dec 23, 2008 3:48 PM PST
in News
55 comments
AS THE SMOKE CLEARS, WE KNOW THAT...
...Arte Moreno was correct, his bid was just being used to drive up the price. His public pronouncement probably saved the Steinbrenner family $10 million...
...John Henry, of course, saved his bitter division rival close to $20 million with public statements that amounted to a big Yankee discount...
...this offseason has berthed beginnings of proactive owners using the press and public announcement to create a de facto but legal (and quite welcome) collusion during contract negotiations...
AS THE SMOKE CLEARS WE ASK...
...whether a DH/OF Bat or the 5th Starter is becoming the issue for the Angels to address...
...if the season started today, would Chone Figgins start in LF, Rivera DH, Wood play 3B all with Vladdy's new knees in RF?
...and who would win the coinflip at SS, Aybar or Izzy?
...would a depressed Detroit economy put Miguel Cabrera on the trading block?
...Is it realistic to go into the season as-is and wait for some depressed economic entity to fire-sale us a stud bat for mid-range prospects?
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Good Questions
Which I’m sure the front office is addressing. My hopes:
We sign or trade for a quality 5th starter and/or an extra bat. It doesn’t have to be limited to DH or OF though. In fact, I still think 1B is the best place to plug in a bat.
I hope Figgy starts at 3B, Rivera starts in LF, and the DH rotates around.
Aybar gets the nod at SS…at least until he gets hurt.
I don’t know about Cabrera…I just don’t know.
We could go into the season as-is…but we’d better be prepared as a fan base to lose some games. I think we could win the division with the kids, but I think it would be very, very close. As bad as the A’s and Rangers are on paper, you just never know. Especially with the frickin’ A’s.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
by ArkAngel on Dec 23, 2008 4:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What are the odds...
of bringing back Garland in ’09?
by Downing Rules on Dec 23, 2008 4:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see the Angels get Randy Johnson to fill a spot in the rotation.
"The Sandpeople are easily startled but they will soon be back and in greater numbers."
by Fan Since 1981 on Dec 23, 2008 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Draft pick situation is improved...Brewers and Jays are losers!
I think we take Reagins at his word and the youngsters get to play…Figgy plays LF and Wood plays SS or 3B…make a move at the trade deadline if necessary! (Personally, if you want to make a trade that is going to cost you the farm, Pujols is the man…forget Peavy or Fatso Cabrerra)
I think bringing back Judy for another season is a great idea Downing!
With Mark Teixeira ranking the highest among this crop with a 98.889 ranking, the Angels will get the Yankees’ first-round pick at No. 26. New York has an additional first-round pick, No. 28a, compensation for not signing 2008 first-rounder Gerrit Cole, which cannot be forfeited.
The Angels will also receive an additional pick in the sandwich round, the supplemental first round that takes place between the first and second rounds of the Draft.
Kotch and Marek for Teixeira...hmmm, what a deal! Or NOT!
by K3YEROUT on Dec 23, 2008 4:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This will get some backlash... but this would make my year.
Angels trade Figgins, Jepsen, and Aybar for Peavy. Maybe throw in one more AA prospect to ensure it happens.
Angels trade Lackey and Shields for Puljos. (Lackey hasn’t signed a contract yet)
Angels sign Fuentes and Randy Johnson.
3B Izturis
2B Kendrick
1B Puljos
DH Guerrero
C Napoli
LF Morales
RF Rivera
CF Hunter
SS Wood
1 – Peavy 2 – Santana 3 – Saunders 4 – Weaver – 5 Johnson CL: Dondo / Fuentes
by Jay Cal on Dec 24, 2008 8:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just signing RJ and Fuentes would bolster the staff.
Fuentes orginally wanted a 3-year deal for $30m – $33m but what if (as per info at mlbtraderumors) he is open to a 2-year deal for $18m? That’s an annual cost that is lower than the $10m the Angels paid K-Rod in 2008. Could Randy Johnson be persuaded to join the Angels for a 1 -year deal at $7m plus incentives? The Angels in effect paid $13.5m for Garland in 2008 ($12m salary plus $1.5m to the White Sox).
Potential 2009 Rotation
Lackey
Santana
Johnson
Weaver
Saunders
Potential 2009 Bullpen
Fuentes
Shields
Dondo
Oliver
Speier
Jepsen
"The Sandpeople are easily startled but they will soon be back and in greater numbers."
by Fan Since 1981 on Dec 24, 2008 9:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
i can’t believe you are suggestiong pujols for lackey + shields. Try suggesting that over to Card fans and see the reaction. Ridiculus on so many levels.
1st: Talent-wise it isn’t fair — pujols is the best hitter in baseball and in his prime.
2nd: lackey is a FA after this year. why trade for a guy who’s a FA?
3rd: pujols has a very friendly contract. that makes him even more valuable.
4th: shields isn’t worth all that much.
5th: lackey is a great SP…but he’s not THAT great.
6th: i’ll stop at 5, but really that is a REALLY bad homer fan trade proposal.
Go Angels!
by Four Ts on Dec 24, 2008 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
every one of our young players
Howie, Aybar, Wood, Morales, Napoli, Conger and Adenhart.
…and $12 million.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Dec 24, 2008 1:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
santana too
There’s no reason for the cards to trade Pujols.
Go Angels!
by Four Ts on Dec 24, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh did i miss him
hell, throw in Saunders, Dondo and Weaver, too.
basically, we’d be left with Quinlan, Matt Brown, Mathis, GMJ, Willits and the Rally Monkey.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Dec 24, 2008 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If I were Red Birds GM
Napoli, Santana, Kendrick, Dondo
by stolenbases on Dec 26, 2008 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also force the Angels to take AK and have a 5th "player to be named later" thrown in
From a list of Aybar, S. Rod, Jepsen, or Sandoval.
by stolenbases on Dec 26, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I also think the economy is going to be a HUGE factor on this coming season...
…the owners have seen nothing yet! Perhaps we even lose a team or two to bankruptcy…the shit has not fully hit the fan yet!
Kotch and Marek for Teixeira...hmmm, what a deal! Or NOT!
by K3YEROUT on Dec 23, 2008 4:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
not that we have to count on that
but i think it could be a reality.
by Rev Halofan on Dec 23, 2008 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
great point
what happens if a team cant pay its players? bailout time a la auto industry? or total collapse and fire sale of all its players?? this shit could get rough.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Dec 23, 2008 11:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone hits bankruptcy
but if any team does or could, it will be the Tigers. Huge payroll, problems getting it up there in good times, a godawful economic base, and no regional cable network (IIRC).
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on Dec 24, 2008 5:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FSN Detroit
This is the worst offseason in years. I do not even want to talk about it.
by hauldog on Dec 24, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Allow me to clarify
No team-owned cable network, viz. YES, NESN, MASN, etc.
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on Dec 25, 2008 5:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It'll be a factor....
…but franchises won’t cease to exist due to bankruptcy. The very worst case is that MLB would takeover the franchises and run them until new ownership could be found. It more likely that the smaller business that feed off of major league baseball would go belly up.
Cash is always king in times of economic turmoil. The top three or four richest teams can likely really get dominant by pillaging the smaller-market teams that have to slash payroll.
by mustard_man on Dec 24, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Things are rough in Detroit...
But not so bad that the Tigers would trade Miguel Cabrera.
However, if the Angels are interested in Magglio Ordonez….
by Ian Casselberry on Dec 23, 2008 5:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Call us after the bailout cash has been blown
May… June maybe…
by Rev Halofan on Dec 23, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We've already got our own "Magglio Ordonez"....
in the person of Vlad Guerrero. We don’t need another star that is not aging gracefully.
by mustard_man on Dec 24, 2008 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Vlad has always been a superior player to Ordonez… Don’t ever confuse the 2.. besides that,whos to say Vlad doesn’t hjave 5 more good seasons in him,u just r judging off last year,which if I am correct,.300 avg 25 hr 30 doubles..I know hes terrible.!
by raven191 on Dec 24, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
economical prudence
Arte may simply be exercising it. Nothing more or less.
"pitchez la vache!"
by fordprefect on Dec 23, 2008 5:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yup
The LA/OC metroplex in theory has a lot of free spendable cash to throw at a ball team or two, but given the current economic climate — especially in regards to overexpansion of home loans and such, the collapse of high-paying jobs in mortgage origination companies that are now long gone and ain’t coming back — it could get really empty in both Dodger Stadium and Angel Stadium.
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on Dec 24, 2008 5:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exercising prudence?
Upon further review, the English majors on the forum have decided tht one may not “exercise” prudence.
That is all.
-Oh, and happy Christmas, all!
"pitchez la vache!"
by fordprefect on Dec 24, 2008 6:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hang in there Halo fans!
Juan Rivera: 550 AB’s, .285 BA, 32 2Bs, 29 HRS, 93 RBIS
Kendry Morales: 550 AB’s, .280 BA, 35 2Bs, 20 HRS, 85 RBIS
Pretty good production forthcoming, no?
I know Dunn brings lots of K’s and a low BA, but a lefty popping 40 bombs, drawing 100 walks and driving in a 100 plus at half the cost of Texeira hitiing between Vlad and Hunter is intriguing.
Let’s give Wood 100 AB’s in spring to force his way into the lineup.
by bojax22 on Dec 23, 2008 6:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I Think Lyle Spencer Has It Right...
You get a bat like Dunn, someone who can play first if need be, and give Rivera, Morales, and Wood every opportunity to succeed, with a player like Dunn hedging your bets. Personally, Dunn is too much of a whiffer to get my thumbs-up, but I think the Angels need to let their talent play a good part of the season and see what they’re made of, and they can make another deadline trade if need be.
by Kernel on Dec 23, 2008 6:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i'm ALL for that plan
it makes the most sense, and it improves the club.
you trade either Aybar or Figgins for a pitcher and let Wood take over the vacancy.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Dec 24, 2008 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Angels are sitting right where they had a very good idea they might me.
No suprises here for the Halos. Trading Kotch for MoneyMark was done so with the hopes that it would lift the Halos over the top in the post-season (which Tex was not enough and it was not is fault). The trade was done knowing who his agent was and knowing that Kendry would be waiting if/when Tex/Scott used the Halos for shopping.
Nothing lost really.
What to do: The Angels are still sitting pretty. Arte will not be bent over by Scott. We have plenty of young studs whose time has come. The Halos are sitting with wads of money to spend incase our young guys start circling the drain. Who should we go after…whomever we feel fits our needs at OUR price!!!
It is going to be great next season to watch our young guys play up to their potential. It is going to feel good as a fan knowing that our owner is financially responsible and the team will not be strapped for cash in the future because we felt we had to go beyond what Arte was comfortable with.
I am very happy all of this is over and things played out the way they should have.
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Dec 23, 2008 8:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
but I still miss Kotch.........
what a great guy……and solid ball player
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 23, 2008 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...such a delight to watch.
or not.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Dec 23, 2008 11:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the waiting game
I still like Dunn, but we can’t rely on him for 1B, and we kind of overflowing with decent (or hopefully decent) OF.
I guess the Yankees budget will be a little tighter for the next several years, so we can see how our guys do and pick up a salary dump at the trading deadline.
by elricsi on Dec 23, 2008 9:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
yankees and budget is like oil and water..........
12/19/08 - Thank you KLJ for coming into my life.
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 23, 2008 9:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just can't help but wonder
…what baseball would be like if every team spent the same amount on payroll. You know, a level playing field, so to speak. It just isn’t fair.
by 10 27 02 on Dec 23, 2008 9:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think it woudl be worse
here is why: NYC offers endorsement deals beyond what other cities offer. Also, teams in high-tax areas of the country would be unfairly penalized.
by Rev Halofan on Dec 23, 2008 10:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ive always been down for a hard salary cap for baseball
i think a lot of the owners would potentially be down as well. its really the players union and the agents behind them that really care if theres a spending limit.
by linkbruin on Dec 23, 2008 10:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
huh?
and so all the revenues can go to the owners, instead of the players with talent?
www.13stoploss.com
by feNOMINAL on Dec 23, 2008 11:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A good owner (which is what we have)...
…reinvests the money. In scouting, in the stadium, in getting every damn penny out of the players in whom you choose to invest through superior coaching and support
The money that the top players make is profane.
I see red people
by The Limey on Dec 24, 2008 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm I guess he’s not much worse than a bad owner in this system is. At least a cap would close the gap of spending between Yankees-Marlins
by MidwayCityLivestock on Dec 24, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think a cap would work
Say the cap is $100M. That’d mean the Yankees would spend up to the cap, but the Marlins would still only be at $25M. Sure the gap is smaller, but I don’t think it’d make that much difference. If baseball keeps revenue sharing there should be a payroll floor (or whatever it’s called) where teams have to spend at least a certain amount. For example, each teams’ payroll has to be between $75M – $100M.
I think a better solution would be pooling a portion of the regional television money. Something like 60/40 split. I realize that most of the teams’ value comes from their broadcasting revenue, but something does need to be done.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
by WiHaloFan on Dec 24, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the need for a No. 5 starter is the biggest need right now
I don’t see Sosh going to a 4-man rotation. Good pitching can cure a lot of offensive woes
"And the Anaheim Angels are the Champions of Baseball!"
by Grichfan on Dec 23, 2008 11:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
that's it
gotta be number 1 priority. As to the rest, well maybe Figgins is gone to the White Sox for Paulie, as rumor on their media is reporting, but that’s a stretch.
Then maybe there’s the Fuentes deal. Other than that, the Angels have stated let them play.
As to the Yankees, sure they have a lot of big name stars, but they still have to execute. Look at last years Tigers. Jeter, Mariano and Posada are quite old and Sabathia isn’t that great in the A.L. Lets see what happens. Lets see how Tex plays in the big apple when he gets the Bronx cheer, or if the media in his face daily affect him at all.
by Kristy_Joe on Dec 24, 2008 1:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
WANTED: Plate discipline
Guess which team out of all 30 ranked dead last in 2008 when it came to swinging at pitches outside of the strike zone? Angels’ hitters hacked at 28.9% of pitches outside the strike zone. That’s the WORST in all of MLB.
The Red Sox must have known this and they correctly exploited this weakness. In the playoffs, Aybar and HK went 4 for 35 with ZERO walks.
"The Sandpeople are easily startled but they will soon be back and in greater numbers."
by Fan Since 1981 on Dec 24, 2008 9:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I was surprised to see how little Hatcher bashing took place after losing to Sox.
Granted there was some, but that series loss had his stink all over it.
by MidwayCityLivestock on Dec 24, 2008 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's even worse than I thought
The Angels were last in 2006 and 2007, too. Holy crap! Three straight years they led MLB in swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. That’s a very serious flaw which the Angels seem to be ignoring.
"Playoffs?? Don’t talk about — playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game!"
by Fan Since 1981 on Dec 24, 2008 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup questions for 2009
In no particular order:
1) How will Brandon Wood perform? Bill James’ projects him at .253/.307/.470 with 23 HRs.
2) Will HK finally have a breakout season? He’s already posted a .797 OPS season. Bill James has him at .317/.343/.464 to go along with 49 doubles.
3) Izzy is a good defensive SS. He also is one of the few Angel hitters with any kind of plate discipline. From June 1 onwards he posted an OBP of .361, which is in line with his .349 and .365 OBPs from 2006 and 2007, respectively.
4) Juan Rivera slugged .505 from July 1 to the end of the season. In 2006 he slugged .525. Can JR be a decent power threat in 2009?
5) Will Figgins SLG return in 2009? At just .318 his SLG was ridiculously low. His BB, K and LD rates were in line with his career norms, so it wasn’t like he completely lost his hitting skills.
6) K-Mo? Like Wood, not much of a track record.
Lots of questions for 2009.
"The Sandpeople are easily startled but they will soon be back and in greater numbers."
by Fan Since 1981 on Dec 24, 2008 12:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Figgins' OBP
is remarkably dependent on his legs. I would be pretty surprised if he picks it back up.
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on Dec 25, 2008 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Projections
I am actually surprised that Bill James had Wood up to .253. I was thinking more like .230-.240 with 22-24 homers. Also surprised with the numbers for HK. I was thinking more like .290-.310 with doubles in the high 30s to low 40s. Considering that these players are still young and learning, those numbers are encouraging and something to build on.
To me the question isn’t so much of adjusting to the big leagues, but of health especially for HK. It seems like lately our young guys are always getting injured. If we can stay healthy and avoid our everyday players being out for weeks at a time, I have confidence that this Angels can make the playoffs and be in better position to go deeper into the playoffs. I actually think it will be exciting to see our players develop and grow even if it means there are growing pains along the way.
by stolenbases on Dec 26, 2008 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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