Francisco Rodriguez: The Long Goodbye

by Rev Halofan on Feb 17, 2008 8:21 PM PST in News Comment 67 comments

So the LA Times and other outlets cornered Frankie upon his appearance at Spring Training and he bit, mentioning that 2008 is probably it for him in L.A. of ANA.

The best reason he has for testing the open market is that Mariano Rivera got 4 years, $15 million per year from the Yankees a few months back. Of course agents and players want the field to be level when those numbers appear in dry ink.

But Mariano Rivera got that much from the Yankees for a number of reasons that hardly have anything to do with his ability to perform at his typical level of performance over the next few seasons.

The worst thing that could happen as far as the Yankees are concerned in the case of Rivera would be for him to be the closer for another team in baseball and to appear in an historic postseason appearance or two. Imagine Rivera being the closer on the mound for the Cubs when they win the World Series in October. More than a dozen years of Yankee greatness would be a mere asterisk. Paying Rivera this much is basically buying the certainty that the Yankees logo will always be on any piece of memorabilia associated with this certain future first-ballot Hall-of-Famer. In an era of steroid suspicion, Rivera stands as a paragon of integrity. By the 4th year of this deal, the agreement will be all about branding - Rivera is the all-time Yankees closer and will become Ruthian in proportion as the years go on.

But try telling that to any top-level closer. They see the bucks, they see the numbers and they want the green they believe they deserve. The Yankees gave Rivera the reverse on the old hometown discount - they gave him a bonus for having been this good for them this long. Frankie might get a $12 million per year contract for 4 seasons with some club, and he may earn every dollar of it over that period of time. But the Angels are the only team that Rodriguez could ever have the same meaning that Rivera has to the Yankees; unless, of course, it is Frankie on the mound in the arms of a Catcher in Wrigleyville some Octobers from now.

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2009

officially will truly be a new era for the franchise.

sure, the 2002 team has been fading for the past few seasons but after this season we'll likely be looking at the departures of garret anderson, an all time Angel, and frankie--one of the most memorable figures of the world series run.

im one person who has felt it may be a bad idea to give frankie such an enormous contract, but it certainly will be strange when he's gone.

side note, am i the only one who is intrigued by the idea of a 100mph-throwing jordan walden eventually closing games or is he too good not to start?

by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 17, 2008 9:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

the latter

Jordan is too good not to start. Plus, he's at least 3 years away from making the big league team.

by TTTT on Feb 18, 2008 8:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Goodbye Frankie

Sad but true. Well said, Rev. He will be missed.

At 4/48, I'd probably resign him, but I think he'll be getting at least $60 mil or $15 per year on a shorter deal.

Frankie -- Here's to hoping that you sacrifice a few million to stay with us. But realistically, I hope you get the big fat contract you are hoping for. Enjoy your money and your new team.

I'm a gutless, two-faced little b!tch.

by Los Angeles de Anaheim on Feb 17, 2008 9:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Using my Fword quotient

"Fuck'em all and Fuckin' no regrets."

See you later Frankie.

by cupie on Feb 17, 2008 9:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I like Krod

But it is time for him to leave. Use the money towards signing Lackey to an extension or something that will help us more then a closer.

Get rid of Quinlan

by edhoo on Feb 17, 2008 10:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I say get rid of him now.

Who wants to see him moping around all year?

Let's go out and get that coveted big bat with Frankie as our bargaining chip.

by bc56274 on Feb 17, 2008 10:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think he wil be motivated...

...by the big bucks this year and be great for us, and i will take "Sayonara with a Ring!" anytime!

by Rev Halofan on Feb 17, 2008 11:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think "Sayonara with a Ring"

Is the only way we keep him.

If he closes out game 6 of our World Series championship... do you see him leaving?

This would be the success he wants, and would give the team the payroll necessary to retain him.

I wouldn't cry over his departure, but please, let's make this happen.

Wake me up on opening day.

by 101halo on Feb 18, 2008 2:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We can't get past Boston...

...with this offense. It doesn't matter if we have Frankie, or not. But, trade Frankie for a big bat and let Shields do the closing and then I think we have a much better chance at a ring.

Thanks for the memories K-Rod. But, you may be just the trading piece that we need to get us our next Championship.

by 10 27 02 on Feb 18, 2008 8:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

How old are Manny and Ortiz?

Jes' askin'. It's not like they're made of steel or anything.

Hoping Ervin Santana turns it around in Salt Lake. Go, Ervin!

by scareduck on Feb 18, 2008 9:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's the spirit!

Jeeez! Try a little optimism.

"Erstad says he's got it. Erstad makes the catch!..."

by Rally Manatee on Feb 18, 2008 12:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Losing 9straight to the Red Sox ...

in the post-season leaves me with the same attitude. We do not match up well. Our only hope is that Manny & Ortiz finally get exposed as juicers once and for all (wishfull thinking on my part).

We have not beaten them in the playoffs since 10/11/1986.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1986_ALCS.shtml

Quit yer whinin' and START CHEERING!

by Downing Rules on Feb 18, 2008 11:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Lates Frankie......

It was nice Knowing you. I just got that shirt with the most saves of you. I hope you stay but if not, good luck out there.

If you do leave I hope we find a Closer that is not too scary to watch. Every fly ball you gave up made me think it was a HR or a Double into the gap. Good bye "Big Hit Theory Dude." Guess I wont be using that anymore.

Heres to Bulger and his Future Role.

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Feb 18, 2008 12:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

That promotion night, the Frankie shirt...

he blew the save, if I recall...

Quit yer whinin' and START CHEERING!

by Downing Rules on Feb 18, 2008 11:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Frankie

If GMJ is worth 10 mil then Frankie's worth at least 15.

After 2008 he'll have served 7 years and since he's been in decline for the last three, with his WHIPs sucking, he has big cahunas to ask for 12.5.

I think he'll find the same fate as Bengie, demanding a 3 year and winding up with a one year, as no one is likely to bite. He'll be forced to take that as time will run out.

Then he'll come down to Earth and get a team like the Giants to offer him a multi-year deal for whatever he can get.

So he's a putz and not as good as Putz.

for those academics visit http://paperesearch.blogspot.com/

by roidrage on Feb 18, 2008 1:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

No one will bite?

Classic. Cordero just got 46 over 4.

Rivera 45 over 3.

Um.........

by hauldog on Feb 18, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Alternative Universe

If repeat if Frankie Goes to Hollywood (I drank a 53 and 61 Bordeaux in Swansea, Wales to that music in 84) Rodriguez scores four saves in the 2008 World Series I say Arte Moreno will "Book 'em Dano" for 4 years @ $17.5 million. That is a cool $70 million for the closer behind the shades.

Frankie did not have a gopher ball problem in 2007. KRod surrendered four 9th inning home runs in 2007: to Mike Piazza, Magglio Ordonez, and Ryan Garko at home in the regular season and to Manny Ramirez in Game 2 of the ALDS at Fenway. In those four games the Angels won two of them. Frankie did not give up a home run to a lefthanded batter all year.

I am expecting a career year out of Frankie in 2008. If Frankie has a splash out season it won't take an agent to say "Show me the money."

Scot Shields will break down before KRod does. There was an article I read a year ago about relief pitchers who had three 100 strikeout seasons falling apart. Beginning in 2003 Shields had strikeout season totals of 111, 109, and 98. Okay, Scot started 13 games in 2003 and fell short of a hundred strikeouts in 2005. Career walk-off home runs allowed: Shields 5, Rodriguez 1.

Forty years ago my grandfather Othmar (a Giants fan) told me that Juan Marichal would have arm trouble because of his pitching motion. Eventually Grampa was right. Sometime down the road Frankie will have arm trouble too. It won't be in 2008.

by Yetijuice on Feb 18, 2008 1:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Book em Dano

see cbs.com videos (watch full episodes). on right hand side of screen there's a link to some 20 - 30 episodes of Hawaii 5-O. They are down loadable if using real player. Some of the other links, for example early Star-Trek episodes are viewable but not down loadable.

for those academics visit http://paperesearch.blogspot.com/

by roidrage on Feb 18, 2008 4:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

Right now it's just a game of chicken. Frankie and agent aren't budging, and neither is the front office. But if Frankie's got 35 saves and a .89 ERA in July, we'll see if Reagins doesn't sweeten the pot some.

On the other hand, we also have time to see how well Shields and Speier perform. If Frankie is flat again, but those guys excel, we thank Frankie for his service, and hope he doesn't go to an AL team.

"Erstad says he's got it. Erstad makes the catch!..."

by Rally Manatee on Feb 18, 2008 12:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You were vintage claret in South Wales in 1984?

I'm surprised you weren't clubbed to death by a striking coal miner with the empty bottle...

I see red people

by The Limey on Feb 18, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

that would be 'drinking' vintage claret...

I see red people

by The Limey on Feb 18, 2008 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bordeaux

My friends Tim and Elizabeth Bloxam of Wind Street Picture Frames fame in Swansea had a wine atlas that I examined before going to the wine store. I had just received an $800 wire at Midland Bank and decided to splurge for the bottles of 53 and 61 Bordeaux. I do not remember the names of the vintners (this was in July 1984) but I assure you they were Gran Crus. The combined cost for the two bottles was about $160.

I met Tim and Liz on the train between Lahore, Pakistan and Amritsar, India in mid-June 1983. I was sweating it as I was smuggling two litres of Jack Daniels. There was not anything to worry about with that in India. However, Pakistan is a dry country and spirits are verbotten.

We stayed at the Ritz Hotel in Amritsar because it had a swimming pool. There was a long suffering Montreal Expos fan staying at the same hotel. He could not get over Steve Rogers surrendering a two out 9th inning home run to the Dodgers Rick Monday in Game 5 of the 1981 NLCS that extinguished the Expos World Series hopes. I will talk baseball over beers anywheres!

Three weeks later I met up with Tim and Liz again. We drank Kingfisher beers on the roof of the Oregon House Boat on the Jhelum River near the Bund in Srinagar as a dead cow floated downstream. We exchanged addresses and a year later I was in Swansea, Wales. While there I checked out Mumbles beach, the Boathouse where Dylan Thomas wrote most of his poetry, and Thomas' favorite pub. The Bordeaux splash was a celebration of the approaching finale of an 18 month trip around the world. From Swansea I bussed to London's Gatwick Airport and flew to Boston's Logan Airport. I went to three Chisox @ Bosox games (including pre-steroids Roger Clemens' first major league shutout) before flying into LAX the night before the Los Angeles Olympics commenced. I have been around the world twice and both times I went to Fenway Park. The first time was June 1977 when the Red Sox swept three games from the Yanks by a combined score of 31-9. Boston out-homered the Yankees 16-0. Boston is where Dylan Thomas died. During and after a poetry reading Thomas drank 17 shots of gin and croaked. No, I did not visit the Boston bar Dylan Thomas died in.

Getting back on subject here, age is the determining factor in my prediction that Frankie Rodriguez will stay at a productive level longer than Scot Shields. Frankie is 26 and Scot is 32 1/2. When KRod is 32 will Shields still be pitching? Probably not.

by Yetijuice on Feb 18, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What is everyone doing up at this hour?

I thought I was the only night owl...

by Rev Halofan on Feb 18, 2008 1:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Too eager for April 1st, too eager....

Though I wish we opened against the Twins at the Big A, with Torii bobbleheads to say "Ha, Ha, your owner is the worst in baseball..."

But wait, that's an awful note to start the season on.

I'll settle on... let's go Angels!

Wake me up on opening day.

by 101halo on Feb 18, 2008 2:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

trade proposal

frankie and figgie to the cubs for ramirez
gmj
howie
vlad
ramirez
ga
hunter
kotch
nap
ss?
if gmj doesn't produce hunter leads off (downing w/speed)

by hittheglove on Feb 18, 2008 4:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Facts & Rationalizations

Matt Hurst from the PE:

Rodriguez struggled at times in the second half last season , blowing four saves, allowing 11 earned runs and walking 18 batters in 28 2/3 innings. During winter ball in Venezuela, Rodriguez shelved his slider and relied on "my consistency."

"The second half of last year, I didn't execute," he said. "I worked more on my fastball-changeup and I didn't throw many sliders at all."

http://www.pe.com/sports/baseball/angels/stories/PE_Sports_Local_D_web_rodriguez_18.1ed7d6c.html

From my viewpoint as an interested observer last season, plus following recent Venezuelan winter ball via the internet, it's a bit of an understatement to say that Frankie was unnerving. Obviously Reagins & Co. are worried about injury; if that were not the case, this money situation might not propagate such anxiety.

I've stated before.....I've read that the Cubs had offered Carlos Marmol and Felix Pie for Joe Nathan. The Cubs have inquired about Figgins. Some in Chicago want to run ARam out of town. I think we can absorb the loss: KRod & Figgins for ARam & Marmol.

Probably won't happen, but it certainly would make sense for both clubs.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/799541,CST-SPT-cub18.article

by wumbug on Feb 18, 2008 5:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

why not

offer him what he wants money wise for a 1-2 year deal. Then after 2009 trade him... that gives us a couple of years to groom a replacement and to make a run at a title.
I just hate to think that we're gonna let him walk and get nothing for him. Can you imagine what teams would give us to get a dominant closer? K-rod straight up for a lot of big trades and K-rod plus an extra outfielder means we can get the player we want and choose a couple from THEIR minor league system.
But no, we will just let him off and disapear like a fart in the wind instead.
LETS GET SOMETHING FOR HIM

Relax... We're fine.

by Sinatrasratpack on Feb 18, 2008 7:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Ridiculous

This team will break the bank to sign Matthews and Hunter, only one of whom has shown a consistent ability to be good. They'll pony up for an aging and broken Steve Finley. But they suddenly tighten the purse strings when one of their home grown guys, who's only 26 years old and already one of the three or four best players at his position comes calling.

As I mentioned before on Rob's site, part of the problem with Frankie is that I, and I think many other people, too often compare Frankie to what we think he should, or what we want him to be, rather than to the rest of the league. He never fares well in the former comparison, but looks really damn good in the latter. I think it's a case of not being able to recognize how good we've really had it for the last few years. We remember how dominant he was in 2002, and assume that he should ALWAYS be that dominant.

They're paying $10MM/year to keep Juan Rivera out of the lineup, but they can't find the money to keep a home grown star who would be poised to set all sorts of records as an Angel. Pathetic.

by LA Seitz on Feb 18, 2008 7:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

We're paying $10mm/year for Rivera? Jesus... trade him already. Find a promising minor league 3rd baseman for him and give Frankie the money.

by thetooth on Feb 18, 2008 8:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You didn't understand...

By paying Matthews Jr. $10 million per year- Juan Rivera is blocked. What he is saying - I think - is that this team is paying someone top dollar to block a better player (Rivera) but won't pony up the going rate for Frankie.

I personally don't think paying any closer $15 million per is a good idea when they throw 70 innings. So, I am happy to let him walk - but I'd try to trade him to get something good for him...

That's just me, though.

Jimmuscomp

Haloville- Land of the Angels
Homepage

by jimmuscomp on Feb 18, 2008 9:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Another view

is that by "blocking" players like Rivera, and to a lesser degree Willits, Morales, etc., we have one of the best benches in the game. Who else has that kind of power threat, or on-base threat on their bench? It's unfortunate for those guys. I wish I could sign them all to my own MLB team and give them the daily jobs they deserve. But in the meantime, they must shine when the opportunity arrises. And MOST guys on the Angles are team players enough that you will never hear them complain about their roles. They are pretty selfless. I'm starting to see that Frankie doesn't fit that Angels mold too well. Is it possible that Reagins and co sense the same thing? Is that a factor in holding out on the elusive 2.5 mil per year?

"Erstad says he's got it. Erstad makes the catch!..."

by Rally Manatee on Feb 18, 2008 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for clearing that up...

I clearly misunderstood him. Not much we can do about Matthews since he has a no-trade clause... so there's really no point in whining about that.

Personally I like Matthews and think we're a better team with him... assuming he doesn't start whining about losing his starting CF job.

by thetooth on Feb 19, 2008 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's not forget, Seitz

..that there's a huge difference between paying that kind of coin to a guy who plays everyday and a guy who pitches at most eighty innings every season.

Frankie is an awesome closer, no doubt, but fourteen million a year? He wants Mo Rivera money, and all due respect to Frankie, Mo Rivera is far more established. We've been hearing about impending injuries to Frankie due to his violent delivery, and let's face it, he has control issues. A WHIP of 1.26 is awfully high for a closer. He's worth more than your average closer, but we're not paying for Papelbon or Putz here.

Also: I know we all love closers, but honestly it's one of the most overrated positions in the game. There are a lot of pitchers who are capable of handling the job at least adequately, and most of them are making far less than a few million a year.

The Hunt for a Red October ...and please keep telling Clutch to chill!

by cardinalwraith on Feb 18, 2008 9:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Impending Injuries

Yeah, we've been hearing about them, and hearing about them, and hearing about them. Funny thing is, we keep hearing about them, and not actually seeing them. But hey, I guess if someone predicts impending doom for five or six years or more, they're bound to be right sooner or later.

Relief pitching is tough to judge, and there are a ton of guys who are lights out one year and crappy the next. For a long time, the Angels were pretty good at figuring out who was going to be good, and getting rid of them as or before they turned to crap.

But there aren't that many guys who have shown Frankie's consistency. In fact, if you look at the Chronicler's site today, you'll see three, Rivera, Nathan, and Wagner. That's pretty good company. And again, he's only 26 years old. Most guys at that age are still learning how to pitch.

They aren't going to re-sign him, and they're really, really going to regret it. There are very few guys who top the list of save leaders year after year after year. That's not because it's an easy job. It's because it's very hard to stay that consistent.

by LA Seitz on Feb 18, 2008 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hmm

all i can say is hindsight is 20/20. ya, if we didnt sign matthews, this wouldnt be as much of an issue. if we didnt get accustomed to maxing out our payroll and being competitive, this probably wouldnt be a problem. but the organization and fans expect us to be able to spend and be a top 5 team. this is the consequence of that. we've finally raised payroll to the point where we cant afford to just keep signing and extending anyone wed like. If i were you, id be happy we still have a top 5 payroll than acting like our organization is just worthless and ruining our lives. try being a marlins or rays or A's fan and talk about money. at least our ownership and GMs try within their means to do what they can to make the angels the best team they can be.

im not sure $250,000 an inning, as someone else pointed out, for a closer that still has major injury risks involved in his delivery, not to mention control that comes and goes, is worth the risk.

you'll say we should have extended him a year or so ago. What if he blew out his shoulder last season or this season. Than its the worst signing ever, forseeable and wreckless. If frankie blows it out for another team, its the best non-signing ever. If he goes on and succeeds for another team, then that comes with the territory. Theres as much risk involved in signing him as there is letting him go, dont forget that.

by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 18, 2008 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why should I give a shit about the payroll?

It's not my money. I'd much rather have an organization that didn't spend money on crappy players, and spent money on good players. I'm not going to be happy about a top five payroll when quite a bit of it is going to guys that suck.

You mistake luck for smarts. So far, I'm waiting for the organization to show a consistent level of smarts when it comes to the free agent market. I count two and a half good ones so far, and three really, really bad ones. Any injury to any pitcher is "foreseeable". Big surprise, pitchers get hurt. As I said before, go ahead and keep predicting that Frankie is going to get hurt. Someday, someone may be right.

by LA Seitz on Feb 18, 2008 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

youre obnoxious

show me one team that has a flawless record in terms of free agents.

well?

you sound like an angry, spoiled child throwing a tantrum.

ya, i hate our stupid management with lack of smarts. i mean all theyve done is oversee the most successful era of angels baseball. damn them for not winning a world series every single year. waaaaaaaaah.

get real buddy

by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 18, 2008 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You're exactly right

They've been successful lately, so that means any and all moves and decisions are completely above criticism! I now LOVE the Steve Finley and Gary Matthews Jr. signings! The acquisitions of Esteban Yan and J.C. Romero were strokes of pure genius!! Who cares if Gary Matthews Jr. has only had one full season in which he was above average? That's worth $50MM isn't it?

All hail the Angels brain-trust! They've been so awesome that they've only signed three center fielders to big free agent deals in the last four years! A sure sign of success.

by LA Seitz on Feb 19, 2008 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

My Boston friend

Can't understand the Frankie mystique. Says our closer would give him a "hawt attack" nightly.

He's a bend but doesn't break closer; seems to put a runner on every night but wiggles out of it. I'll miss the drama.

by The Clyde on Feb 18, 2008 9:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not concerned about his health

But I am concerned about his pitching. Frankie is just not as on as he used to be. Patient teams have figured out that if they just don't swing at his pitches, he'll walk them. Great pitchers know how to win when they don't have their best stuff... to me that put Frankie one step below a great pitcher.

I'd rather put Shields or Speier at closer and have a marginally worse closer while we have $15 million to spend elsewhere.

by akathelorax on Feb 18, 2008 10:10 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I might be inclined to agree

I'd rather put Shields or Speier at closer and have a marginally worse closer while we have $15 million to spend elsewhere.

That is, if this organization had shown any particular acumen for spending money. With any luck, maybe they'll take that money and sign ANOTHER outfielder.

by LA Seitz on Feb 18, 2008 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

One team

Name one team with a large payroll that has done well with big free agent signings. I don't think its an organizational thing.

by akathelorax on Feb 18, 2008 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i heard

this kevin gregg guy is pretty good. Maybe we can trade that chris resop guy for him?

my point: if kevin gregg can close games, having the unfortunate circumstance of not paying an increasingly wild closer who walks people like crazy $15 million is not the end of the world.

by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 18, 2008 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You probably would have said the same thing

about Derick Turnbow. Lots of guys can have decent years closing for one, maybe two seasons. Very few can do it year in, year out, and be at the top.

But by all means, choose an anomaly for every season to back up your point. You know what you'll find out? You're picking a different guy every year. Funny how that works.

by LA Seitz on Feb 18, 2008 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

im pretty sure

youre mothering one of frankie's children.

we have two set up men who are more than capable of closing games.

by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 18, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, Frankie had a bad second half

So let's make Scot Shields the closer. He's more than capable. He only had an ERA north of 7.00 over the second half of last season. Not to mention he's had darn near the heaviest workload of any reliever in baseball over the last five years. What could possibly go wrong?

But what do I know. I'm just sucking Frankie's dick for no apparent reason. It has nothing to do with me wanting the Angels to actually win.

by LA Seitz on Feb 18, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Please

Gregg closes games for a crap team in the NL.

Um.........

by hauldog on Feb 18, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoops forgot

Gregg couldn't close the 6th for us.

Um.........

by hauldog on Feb 18, 2008 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wrote the same thing about 6 weeks ago. We need a closer as everyone does but don't put K-Rod on a throne ............. he would have to save alot more games consistently to be in the Mo Rivera class !!We are fortunate enough to have Shields and he has the stuff to take the Angels all the way. All of you are saying if we paid GMJ 10 mil a year that K-Rod is worth 15 ......... Matthews was just in the right place at the right time when there were not too many center fielders to pick from !! I like the Cub Trade that was mentioned by some .......... get something now before the season starts !! Alot of you on here are acting like K-Rod is the entire team, last time i looked it took 25 to win a championship.

by cookieman 57 on Feb 18, 2008 9:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Rev, Look what you started!

by wumbug on Feb 18, 2008 11:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Good point. Now how do we

get this in front of both Frankie and the Angels office? And how do we get the Yankees office to confirm it? "Yes, we are paying through the nose to keep Rivera for his merchandising profits, not because his performance on the field is worth that much." I hope it's at least crossed Frankie's mind.

"Erstad says he's got it. Erstad makes the catch!..."

by Rally Manatee on Feb 18, 2008 12:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I hate this

I really would like Frankie back. Our pen isn't one of the best in the league without him. Sure, Speier's a nice 7th/8th inning guy, and you all say let's make Shields our closer. But then we lose Shields' flexibility. Dude can go 2 innings a night three to four times a week. If we stick him at closer, he won't pitch in as many games as if he were still a setup man.

Frankie had a bad second half for him. Yes. But that doesn't mean we should run him out of town. The problem here isn't the Mariano Rivera contract. It's Francisco Cordero's. The dumbfuck Reds gave him four years, $46 million. And I know, Frankie won't sign that, because he considers himself the better pitcher. And he is. So Frankie wants MORE than Coco. My that rationale, Frankie and his agent will at least be seeking $55-60 million over four years.

So fuck you, Reds. Fuck you straight to hell. I hope Cordero doesn't pitch one inning for you for the life of the contract.

And damnit, Angel fans. Get it together. We're hurting if Frankie leaves. And we're not trading him, so give it up.

Read my bullshit at http://mvn.com/mlb-source/author/seth.keichline/

by Ty Webb on Feb 18, 2008 1:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I don't see the problem with letting him go...

...closer in MLB is analagous to running back in the NFL. Get a decent offensive line and a quarterback who's good enough to take the pressure off and any half-decent running back will look like a god. Same deal with the closer, put enough runs on the scoreboard through a decent line-up and the closer has plenty to play with - how hard can it be?

Somebody with a better handle on stats than me will tell you what proportion of Frankie's saves were 1-run leads when he came in rather than 2,3,4? My gut says he's been more heart stopper than stopper the last year or two and a greater proportion of 1-run games this year might prove his undoing.

Keep the money and either exploit the walk year to the bitter end or trade him into someone useful. Shields can handle it, Speier can set up, and we'll see what the Australian kid can do as he develops - he strikes out a few...

I see red people

by The Limey on Feb 18, 2008 1:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Why not?

Frankie's pitches are so erratic that you almost cringe when he walks a guy. A majority of the time he stretches his pitch count and these batters come away with the winning run. He was awesome in '02 but since then I believe that his WS ring got to his head! Time for a change folks!

by starpopular on Feb 18, 2008 4:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

A majority of the time?

Funny.

Um.........

by hauldog on Feb 18, 2008 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Gone to his head?

Must have taken a while to get there, seeing as how 2006 was his best season in the majors, a full four years after the world series.

by LA Seitz on Feb 18, 2008 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah -

The Frankie hate is a little much. He is a very, very good relief pitcher. One of the four or five best in baseball. But, my point is that $15 million is too much to give to a reliever, period. I do believe that Shields would be comparable and much, much cheaper.

If the Halos can develop a few 6th and 7th inning guys, this becomes possible. But as the bullpen is constructed right now, I don't like the idea of losing Frankie. With another dependable arm or two (and Oliver doesn't count) I could live with this team going another direction for the 9th inning.

Now, if this discussion becomes who deserves the bucks more, Matthews or Rodriguez, I choose K-Rod, hands down. But, that isn't the discussion as I see it.

Jimmuscomp

Haloville- Land of the Angels
Homepage

by jimmuscomp on Feb 18, 2008 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I am sure

That if Frankie Rodriguez was a CF he would be getting paid.

by cupie on Feb 18, 2008 7:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I still can't get over the rivera signing

What is up with that? Do they have some kind of magical ball that says he will become a great closer again? Is an aging Hoffman-like closer worth that kind of money (maybe!)?

The Yankees can't sign F now. They made there decision, and if Rivera doesn't work out, they have to rely on the farm or a cheap reliever.

And as for Frankie, give him until about the all-star break, then make an offer based on this years perfomance. If we don't sign him, trade him if his performance is down, keep him until the end of the year if we need him.

by devilorangel on Feb 19, 2008 1:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

A couple of things...

First of all. Rivera was quite good last year - not his absolute best, but pretty damn good.

Secondly, the Yanks never HAVE to depend on the farm for a cheap reliever. Their payroll is over $200 million. If they want F-Rod next fall - they'll go after him regardless of their payroll situation.

They have $80 million or so coming off the books next year - Giambi, Pavano, Pettitte, Abreu, Damon, Farnsworth, Mussina. They can afford anyone they want.

Jimmuscomp

Haloville- Land of the Angels
Homepage

by jimmuscomp on Feb 19, 2008 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

K-Rod

Wants the all time saves record. There is no way he goes back to setup

Um.........

by hauldog on Feb 19, 2008 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Even More Money

The Yankees will have even more money after this year, the last they play in their current stadium. That's because once they move into the new one, they will no longer have to pay so much as a penny in luxury taxes.

All told, the evil empire will have approximately $25 million annually in additional money simply because of the new stadium.

http://www.forbes.com/global/2006/0508/052.html

by jjackflash on Feb 19, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You have to be kidding me

Do you think any team, including the yanks, would pay two closers 15+ million? Give me a break.

by devilorangel on Feb 20, 2008 12:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why Not?

The money simply doesn't matter to them. By 2009, the Yanks could be looking at a rotation that includes three guys making the major league minimum.

by jjackflash on Feb 20, 2008 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Frankie Goes To Arbitration

Mariano is the king of closers, so he has to be the yard stick for comparison sake.

2005 ERA FIP WHIP Sv Opp K/9 BB/9
Frankie 2.67 2.98 1.14 45 50 12.2 4.3
Mariano 1.38 2.17 0.87 43 47 9.2 2.1
2006
FR 1.73 1.97 1.10 47 51 12.1 3.4
MR 1.80 2.80 0.96 34 37 6.6 1.3
2007
FR 2.81 2.85 1.25 40 46 12.0 4.5
MR 3.15 2.71 1.12 30 34 9.3 1.5

Nobody has the track record of Mariano, but Frankie's numbers match up nicely. The numbers that standout are the high K and high BB numbers. Of course, that is the key to the fun and excitement of those diarrhea-inducing 9th innings. :)

I hope Frankie wins his case.

by Fan Since 1981 on Feb 19, 2008 6:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Arbitration

If the Angels were offering $10.5 million to counter Frankie's $12.5 million request the Angels would win hands down. Elsewhere it has been mentioned that teams have won four high profile cases so far this winter. I do not know the players and teams involved in those arbitration cases. I have read here at HalosHeaven that the Angels offered Frankie a $34 million contract for three years. That is $11.33 million per year. Halfway between the Angels actual $10 million offer and $12.5 million is $11.25 million. It is in the realm of possibility that there will be corks popping in Frankie Goes to Hollywood Land Thursday night.

by Yetijuice on Feb 19, 2008 7:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Let us not forget

that it is Frankie, not the Angels, who has refused to negotiate a multi-year deal. The Angels have made overtures the last two off-seasons (not including this year). Do NOT blame the Angels for failing to get a deal done. Rodriguez had made it very clear for years now that he fully intends to test the FA market. It is disingenuous, at best, to blame the team for failing to make a deal.

by jjackflash on Feb 19, 2008 11:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs