Fried
Panther of the Game: Joe Saunders
When they ask how the Angels had won so many games without scoring more than 4 runs, you can point to the impenetrable defense and unselfish hitting that were NOT in display in this game, the first in 14 that the Angels scored at least 5 runs.
Oh, and the jawdropping pitcher performances. Yeah, a small part of it all.
Day game tomorrow - 1:40 PM Pacific.
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i was getting ready to blame hk47...
a couple honorable mentions: krod, izzy
f’ing day games. hopefully i catch the last couple innings tomorro.
my bad...k-rod isgood.
No love for Mighty Mouse?
2 hits, 3 RBI’s…? Fangraphs is confusing on this one… Frankie, Dondo, Mighty Mouse, then Saunders… even though he only had 1 ER
by Los Angeles de Anaheim on Jun 3, 2008 9:48 PM PDT reply actions
To Fangraphs, unearned runs still count for something
Even though it’s not as much as a real run. He was good, but not particularly dominant tonight.
~Till the Halo burns out...
well thats BS........and it totally blows fangraphs integrity up.....Joe made the pitches he needed to..........the defense just didnt hold up
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I believe Pedro Martinez said it best:
“I still blame myself- I let the other team hit the ball.”
I’ll grant that he didn’t deserve those runs, but Joe was also allowing guys on base all night, which is the other reason FG gives more credit to K-Rod.
~Till the Halo burns out...
wait wait, how is 6 hits and 1 walk in 7inn giving up base runners all night?
the two errors also….but of course that isnt his fault
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Heh.
Point. It seemed like more because of the errors, but your right, he didn’t allow all that many on base. I thought he walked more guys than that.
~Till the Halo burns out...
and all those runners and hits were in just that one inning pretty much.....thru 5 joe had given up 1 run and 2 hits
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Now i would love to say........
Q for panther….....3-4 2 runs scored…...but that error negates all that…......Krod gets a very honorable mention for closing the door and K’ng the side…....but JOE deserves it with that huge K to end the rally after 3 unearned runs crossed the plate thanks to shaky defense…....then the 7th he gets em in order to seal the deal…....w00
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 9:50 PM PDT reply actions
can his nickname
just be Colonel Panther ? he’s earned that nickname
And you can LITE UP THAT HALO !!!
by BigBangRobbDawgg on Jun 3, 2008 9:51 PM PDT reply actions
how bout Colonel Cy panther?
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 9:51 PM PDT reply actions
Colonel has 5 panthers already.
K-Rod can’t catch a break. So much for jjack’s checklist. Back to the drawing board Franky.
~Till the Halo burns out...
Fangraphs gives Frankie the highest rating
by Los Angeles de Anaheim on Jun 3, 2008 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions
but the Win pic wouldn't work if we changed the Panther
by Los Angeles de Anaheim on Jun 3, 2008 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions
co panthers?
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
wtf is fangraphs exactly?
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
It's something for videogame players
I think
Don't call me Desmond
by highlandhalo on Jun 3, 2008 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
And I was about
to come on and post about how that’s how K-Rod gets a Panther.
Sorry, I can’t go w/Saunders. Error or no, he still gave up a bunch of hits and a bunch of runs.
K-Rod struck out the side (on 12 pitches, no less!) in a game that was closer than it should have been.
I'm willing to go with Hokie Joe
But was originally going to post Frankie for panther. See my earlier post.
Angels fan since '67
how is 6 hits in 7 innings? a bunch of hits? and ERA is the only stat that matters.....and Joes is still 2.63
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Sexson, Cairo, Betancourt
Murderers Row!
I liked that he struck the side out but Dondo’s inning was against better hitters
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
You don't control who you go up against.
K-Rod made sure that the ONLY people he faced were those guys.
~Till the Halo burns out...
Well it should impact the pantherness of the performance
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
A K is THAT much more impressive than a lazy fly ball?
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
Josh Paul says hi. So does GA from today
Burke – Sub 600 OPS
Cairo – Sub 600 OPS
Betancourt – 719 OPS
I am blinded by there awesomeness.
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
I expect him to strike those fairies out
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
that lopez boy has given the angels staff fits
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Which does not strengthen any case for KRod for Panther IMO.
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
It doesn't strengthen anyone's case.
A hitter’s a hitter. A homerun counts the same whether it’s Ichiro or Ibanez or Betancourt. K > pop-out > ground-out > flyball > BB > hit. Franky came into a high pressure situation and got 3 Ks.
~Till the Halo burns out...
joe has pitched 4 times as many innings as Frank has though
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
lol i didnt make the rules for deciding who gets panther......
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm arguing they're unfair.
If you want who has been a bigger influence on the season, Joe all the way, no question. If you want who was better in THAT GAME, K-Rod, all the way.
~Till the Halo burns out...
yeah and if you look at my very first post
i said Krod probably deserves it, but i cant argue with Joe getting it either, because if joe doesnt squash that rally and go through the next inning then no way do Dondo and Frankie get the chance to do what they do. soooo do the ends justify the means?
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
those are my thoughts exactly
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
My entire point with this was the argument yesterday
and continuing from last year, when I started arguing that it seemed functionally impossible for K-Rod to get a Panther. Do you realize that he didn’t get one all of last year? 40 saves, 2.89 ERA not one panther. 23 saves this year, not one Panther. I started asking, well, just what DOES he have to do to get a panther? The answer I got was a 1-run game where there wasn’t a clear favorite, 1-2-3 inning, as dominating as possible. The only other way is a 4 out save, which is up to god as far as K-Rod even getting a chance at it.
~Till the Halo burns out...
yeah wouldnt it get kind of old giving it to frankie everygame?
because we’ve had a lot of one run games…......
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
We've had 5 now where he's closed it.
1 other than this where he went 1-2-3.
I think 2 panthers is fair for the league saves leader.
~Till the Halo burns out...
and in the other one he only had 1 k
so for the people saying that he needs to have 3 ks, this would be his first panther
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I, of course,
am well on the record as rejecting all the rules and excuses that so many folks work overtime to come up with in order to deny Frankie his due in this team’s success.
I leave it to Zu to advocate for Frankie tonight.
lol im not against ZU by any means....
but i can agree with Rev and see why Joe was picked also.
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Then you have realized, of course,
that you are falling into the common trap of pitting Frankie against the other 24 guys on the field, wherein anything good any of them do is stacked against Frankie’s requirement to be perfect.
That's a really good way of putting it.
Baseball is a game of allowed error. Hitters are expected to miss most of the time, pitchers are expected to give up hits and walks. Part of the reason closing is so tough is that you ARE expected to be perfect. Come out of the gates off your game even a little and your team could lose. The other team is fighting like mad to stay in it, and they’re zeroed in. They know the ump’s zone better than you because they’re in they’re fourth or fifth at bat. They’ve watched you on film a million times because they know you’ll be the last obstacle they face. They know your pitches almost as well as you do. The only things you have going for you is that you are the goddamn FILTHIEST pitcher your team can find, and that you have 8 other guys on the field who are ostensibly there to help you out.
Point is- it’s damn hard to be a closer.
~Till the Halo burns out...
i cant remember a recent year
where this team has needed the pitching to be as good as it has been…...because the offense has been as bad as it has been.
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
it seemed like 2 or 3 years ago the offense
was terrible, and the pitching had to be perfect to get a W. and the pitching didnt always hold up the entire year
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions
2005 was the last time.
Our pitching ruled, and our offense was pure balls. I’m not sure how we scored runs before Kotch and Rivera started getting more time late in the year. You look at that team, and it was Figgins, Vlad, Bengie whenever he wasn’t hurt, Cabrera when we needed a sac fly… and that was IT. That was all we had. Byrd Colon Lackey, and Wash kicked ass, plus Escobar and Santana at home.
~Till the Halo burns out...
i looked it up and the angels are on pace score less than what the 05 team had......
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but at least this time we have the excuse of injuries to key guys
Plus Vlad underperforming. That year we just blew at scoring runs.
~Till the Halo burns out...
happened a lot in 05 - 07
usually shields and frankie would come in during tied games instead of protecting a one run lead like they do now. look at how many decisions shields had in the 05 and o6 years. we had a hard time scoring back then too, and our starters didnt go as long as they do now
I'd rather see Willits in LF
thank god for stoneman
pitching and defense he realized can carry a ballclub if the sticks arent hot. (also, wow this is really bunched to the right)
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
ahh, that makes more sense
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions
You're doing a pretty good job yourself.
And I appreciate the help. It’s really nothing against anyone on my part. I like the panther system here, I just wish it had some room for our closer in it, just like everyone else.
~Till the Halo burns out...
You and I are in danger of creating just enough
support for Frankie to get a Patronizing Panther after an upcoming game, which will actually piss me off.
lol
yeah…well…..its all for fun in the end anyways.
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
To be fair, halo91, jjack, and anaheim are making the case as well.
We’re all in this together. :-P
~Till the Halo burns out...
Count me in too
I also understand the Rev’s arguments, especially after they Hokie Joe handled the three unearned runs.
But come on. Striking out the side, when the Mo had shifted to the M’s? On 12 pitches? That’s how you close games.
Frankie gets it.
Angels fan since '67
howabout there be like panther of the week or panther of the month award to remedy this situation, so the k-rod could be eligible
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
thats an damn good idea........
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
That would need to be weighted.
POTG = 1 point
POTW = 3 points
POTM = 10 points
Panther Of The Year is player with most points
i like it
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
i like it as well, but there might need to be a slight restructuring of the ponts
as the top panther getter got only 11 panthers, so if one were to get a POTM and only like 2 or three other POTGs, they could concievably win the whole thing with just one great month. also, will there be deducting points for BOTGs?
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Conceivably, yes.
Vlad carrying the team on his back for an entire month is the kind of thing that is remembered about the season years later. The secondary story might be the guy who had a great season and was instrumental in 11 of 90 wins.
But it ain’t my blog, so I don’t own the rules. Feel free to adjust the points accordingly. It’s not as though there is an open call to change The Panther program at the moment, so this is all just good fun.
And, yeah, BOTG deductions would be appropriate.
plus Frankie is making 10 mil this year.......
i doubt he cares about being “panther” lol…....
and plus Joe is making less than .5 mil…........so tell me how thats fair?
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Franky was making >$300,000
when he carried the bullpen through the 2002 playoffs. How is that fair?
He was making $300,000 when he set a new Angels saves record his first year as closer in 2005. How is that fair?
I’m not worried about K-Rod’s feelings. I’m asking for recognition of his contribution to this team, the same way that I doubt you really think Q cares what people on this site think of his defense.
~Till the Halo burns out...
i dont think that frankie goes unrecognized on this board.....
but it goes back to the argument that someone made yesterday…......its “expected” of frankie for him to get a 3 out save…....its what he’s paid to do…......whether its fair or not…..that is probably whats going on…....but i can admire your desire and you certainly prove your points well….....which is why its always a good discussion on here with you
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I know he's expected to get three outs.
But the fact is that when those three outs are always high pressure, and they are always hard to get, and you are better at it than anybody else in the ENTIRE GAME OF BASEBALL, you deserve some recognition every once in a while.
~Till the Halo burns out...
im sure another AS apperance is in his future
and who knows…..if he keeps this pace up…..probably some CY YOUNG consideration.
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I mean recognition from US
and you know it. :-P
As far as Cy… we’ll see. He’d need to not only break the saves record but keep being dominant like tonight, plus he’d need Joe and Ervin and whoever else to not get 20+ wins or he’s cooked.
~Till the Halo burns out...
well i appreciate it
even though sometimes he is scary on the mound…...i do love the way he took it to the M’s today, i wish everygame was like that…....but like i said in my first post…...he was “very honorable” mention for me for panther
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually
I expect Howie NOT to get a hit at least 60 percent or more of the time.
Frankie, I expect to close out the game and get the last three outs. For $15 million a year, he had damn well better not induce so many freaking heart attacks because Arredondo is starting to show that there is someone else waiting in the wings who can get 3 outs in an inniing.
The only thing Billy Beane was right on on Moneyball is that closers are over-rated (and yes, before any of you smartasses tell me that Billy Beane didn’t write Moneyball he might as well have as much as the writer sucked his jank).
Don't call me Desmond
by highlandhalo on Jun 3, 2008 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions
No, no. Wrong answer.
I am not asking what you expect over the average. I am asking what you expect any particular time he comes to the plate. For example, when he steps up tomorrow for his first at-bat, do expect that bat to be part of the 40% or part of the 60%?
(By the way, it appears as though your high is wearing off…)
maybe closers ARE overrated.
But I look at Street’s godawful save% and the margin of victory in this division the past 5 years, and I think… oh really?
~Till the Halo burns out...
this isnt about money
if you had a-rod and paid him 30 mil a year and he goes 5-5 with 2 Hrs in the same game that 350k S-rod goes 3-4 with 2 singles and a double and 2 RBIs, the panther goes to a-rod not because he gets paid more, but because he played better. the better players almost always get paid more, so the usual panthers will probably be paid more than the rest of the team
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
well technically the club chooses the salary
but why pair more to a player than you have to, so the will always make minimum. actually, this is not for sure, but ryan bruan might have been paid slightly more than mininum (i think to get him to like the brewers more and stay there longer)
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
enter Evan Longoria...
Let Wood play!!!
by howiestheman on Jun 3, 2008 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
actaully, he did get 1 panther last year
http://www.halosheaven.com/2007/10/2/11720/7954
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
o damn, your right. my bad
but what i am sure about is that the angels won all 6 of his blown saves last year
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions
3 hits
in the 5th. He retired the 1st two in order, then put two men into scoring position, and yielded another hit besides. Yeah, there was a pair of errors, but Saunders still allowed 3 baserunners of his own that inning. It’s still only a 1-run inning if he gets Vidro.
K-Rod for panther!
1 run lead. Strikes out the side. Nails!
If he can’t win for that, he’ll never win.
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
100% agree
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
k rod has given up 2 hits in the past 8.2 innings
with 11 Ks. although that also comes with 7 walks, which sorta tarnishes that
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
And look at this... Tied for best record in the AL
AMERICAN W L PCT GB HOME ROAD RS RA STRK L10 Tampa Bay 35 23 .603 - 24-10 11-13 261 235 Lost 1 7-3 LA Angels 36 24 .600 - 18-13 18-11 254 246 Won 4 7-3 Boston 36 25 .590 .5 22-5 14-20 309 265 Won 1 5-5
There are no smoke or mirrors where Joe Maddon is involved
It was only a matter of time til that guy was a success
Don't call me Desmond
by highlandhalo on Jun 3, 2008 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah i agree...it must be changed!
honorable mention should go to hokie joe and izzy, but krod pitched perfect.
my bad...k-rod is good.
i vote for mice tits
the future looks bright
by halofan4life on Jun 3, 2008 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Izzy and the 2 out 2 RBI single get my vote
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
I just found out Joe makes 425,000 this year...
hes gonna get PAID soon…....what a bargain
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:05 PM PDT reply actions
Joe Joe Joe.
Impressive display of composure on Joe’s part, even though the 2 errors lead to 3 runs in the 5th. No f-bombs, no grimaces, no “WTF was that??” look. Kept his cool and came back out and pitched a great 6th and 7th.
Disturbing pic. You know, there is a nest of spiders in that beehive hairdo.
Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!
Don't get me wrong.
I love Hokie Joe. Yet somehow, though the two errors weren’t his fault, he did give up a hit in-between. And Frankie performed perfectly (no one even hit the ball) in a one-run game, the closest game he could. What can a closer do if he can’t win for that?
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
my vote
still goes to frankie. he earned this one. you ungrateful people! lmao.
"Here we go baby, 'bout f***'n' time!"
Frankie
Thought for sure he’d get his first tonight. McSquinty threw the kitchen sink at him and he hiked up his plumber’s pants and K’d the side. On 12 pitches.
That’s going above and beyond.
Please go away Justin Speier. Your work here is done. And take Quinlan's half-inch fielding radius with you.
Cumulative
I know Panther is for a single game, but 23 saves out of 24 opportunities is pretty amazing, no matter how you define a save. I know the Rev thinks closers should perfect (not that Frankie has always been perfect) and don’t deserve Panthers for just doing their job, but that is a pretty high (and unfair) bar. So when the closer IS perfect, in a close game no less, after he has dominated all year, it seems this is the time!
Frankie, Frankie, Frankie!
(I also agree that we are going to be sorry if/when Frankie is gone. We are sooooo spoiled.)
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
if Dondo keeps pitching like he is
then Frankie wont be missed too much
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
It takes more than one man to make a bullpen
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
So do I. A lot. I watch a lot of Tampa this year
Do not get me wrong about this panther stuff. I am a HUGE Frankie guy.
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
Arguing doesn't = animosity for me.
Disagreement is what keeps the game interesting. ;-)
~Till the Halo burns out...
I've reconsidered my vote.
Hokie Joe gets an honorable mention. Frankie deserved a panther for this one.
Angels fan since '67
Cmon Red!
Honestly? For one inning of work? FFS.
Don't call me Desmond
by highlandhalo on Jun 3, 2008 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Two sub 600 OPS hitters and 719 OPS hitter
Really?
Burke – Cairo – Betancourt
Jesus that is a pathetic group.
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
How about Mathis?
On a team of allegedly free swingers…. THREE walks? Hud was joking that they were afraid of him after last night’s dinger.
Oh, and to rub it in for the M’s fans…. That Bedard trade looks real good …. if you’re not playing the Angels!
Angels fan since '67
true Mathis is getting on base any way he can.......and that is great considering he is barely at the mendoza line
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:22 PM PDT reply actions
SAUNDERS ALL THE WAY
7 IP, 1 ER – that is Panther territory all the way … but going above and beyond in the 6th inning, error-filled as it was to get a gutsy strikeout and come back in the 7th inning to go 1-2-3 on them. It was the GUTS in the face of adversity (errors) that gave Joe the Pamther.
Nothing at all against Frankie, but a Quality start is 6 IP, 3 ER, so Joe blew that stat out of the water – Saunders’ performance tonight is the equivalent of Frankie entering in the 8th with a man on 2nd, one out and getting the 5-Out Save in a 1-Run game.
cant argue with that one bit.......infact....i said pretty much the same thing in my first comment in the postgame thread tonight
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I disagree
That biases the system too heavily in favor of a starter. There’s a reason a great closer can get paid as much (or almost as much) as a great starter, which is: it’s not just the rate of runs per inning (or outs) it is the fact that he has to do it EVERY NIGHT! Yes, the three runs or less rule means some saves are not so high pressure, but comparing what Frankie is doing this year to other closers, it is clear he is overall dominant, yet the rules the Rev has set up strongly favor starters over relievers. Even worse, a hitter who gets a big hit can win, even though one might argue that getting a game winning hit with runners on is what a hitter is SUPPOSED to do.
The only fix for this might be the POG, POW, POM that was suggested above, but I suggest that Frankie would still lose out because I suspect that many on this board (including the Rev) just don’t value what closers do very much.
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
it is called PANTHER ... not ROBOT or CALCULATOR
living, breathing, situational, reactive … it is a gut award, not a fibonacci sequence across the gaussin parabola…
Sorry but
you were the one who tried to make a statistical comparison of what a closer had to do compared to Hokie Joe’s night:
“a Quality start is 6 IP, 3 ER, so Joe blew that stat out of the water – Saunders’ performance tonight is the equivalent of Frankie entering in the 8th with a man on 2nd, one out and getting the 5-Out Save in a 1-Run game.”
I was just responding to that. A 5-out save in a 1-run game is more like a 2-hit shutout than a quality start. In fact, to compare to your idea that we EXPECT a 1-2-3 save from Frankie every time, I expect a quality start from every starter every time.
As for gut feeling, I came away after the game feeling that Frankie had just nailed down a VERY close game that we could easily have lost. That coupled with what he has done all year, means he should be Panther.
In any case, I (and others) believe you have created a system where it is virtually impossible for Frankie to get a Panther (he didn’t get a single on last year, apparently) whereas he is clearly an extremely major contributor to our success. I would argue that is a flaw in the system.
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
actually, frankie did get 1 panther
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
You were right to believe me the first time. ;-)
AA misread the standings.
~Till the Halo burns out...
i profusely apologize
i guess i was too fast with the scroll for my own good
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions
It's cool.
It’s just that I remember very well making an impassioned plea for just 1 K-rod Panther last year after he hit 40 saves for a third consecutive season.
~Till the Halo burns out...
i dont think i was really into the blog last year
that might be why i didnt remember that.
i remember that i knew about this, and if i found it, then i would maybe poke around or something. i knew of the panther though already. i think i got reallly into HH right before the switch to the SB network
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 4, 2008 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions
But having said all that
Panther of the game is a lot of fun! Thanks, Rev, for creating this forum for us to argue about our favorite sport.
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
i agree. although the panther still has a few slight kinks
it is still alot better than not having a panther
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks
If we did not have kick-ass, lights out starting pitching these things would be more evened out – and actually, this WAS a team under .500 so maybe that diminishes ALL pitching domination…...
And not just any under .500 team.
The worst team in the AL and possibly baseball.
~Till the Halo burns out...
But, but...
But, the M’s were supposed to win the West this year!!! Just ask anyone at LL!!!!
Angels fan since '67
well if you look at it by numbers
0 runs in 5 outs…....
1 run in 21 outs…........i would say thats more impressive
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
To be more specific
If both performances happened in the same game THEN Frankie would get the Panther.
even if the game ended 1-0????
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Therefore, we have a NEW equation?
WAS:
7 IP, 1 ER = 5-Out Save in a 1-Run game
NOW IS:
7 IP, 1 ER < 5-Out Save in a 1-Run game.
Joe Cy-nders looked solid yet again
***Me to fellow die-hard Ryan after the Angels scored their tenth run on an eighth inning Tommy Murphy home run (10+ runs = free hot wings):
Me: "What the hell are you doing, dude?"
Ryan: "I'm flapping my wings for hot wings!"
Me: "Sit the f*** down and stop acting like a drunk 15-year-old, you ain't Christopher Lloyd and we ain't sitting in the outfield"
holy crap Q is hitting .300
looks like he just earned himself another start
I'd rather see Willits in LF
he is 8-11 in his last three starts......
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
by the way, guys...
we have just won our sixth series in a row!
given the lack of offense, that’s incredible.
heck, even if we had an abundance offense… that’s incredible
Let Wood play!!!
yeah......
thats pretty impressive…....no matter how inept the O is…...
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
shouldn't it the 7th?
I thought that I heard the announcers saying it was our 6th when we won Sunday.
overall this year we are 12-3-3 for a series record
thats pretty freakin impressive
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
oakland and det.......bot 11 still 4-4
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:44 PM PDT reply actions
I love how so many fan sites are NEGATIVE
and HERE at HH, we are arguing passionately about which Angel deserves the highest praise
well if the halos had just lost their 6th straight series.........
it might be a bit more negative methinks
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe.
It depends. I always try to focus on the positive.
I was okay with the way 2006 was looking after May (7 games under .500) because I knew we had talent coming up and I didn’t mind waiting for it to mature.
~Till the Halo burns out...
Good perspective
I was focused on what the talent we had was NOT doing.
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
XD
There’s always that. I was really disappointed with Finley. Thought he was a smart cheap pickup. I ate a LOT of crow on that one.
~Till the Halo burns out...
Wait, Finley was 2005 still.
2006 was Weaver, who I did not like. Plus Izturis was hurt, and Kotch turned out to have Mono, etc.
~Till the Halo burns out...
2006 a bad first two months
June was sick IIRC. We had the best record in baseball from june 1 on I believe.
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
It is nice to be different that way.
And even when we disagree, life long hatreds are not formed. We just let it go ‘til next time.
~Till the Halo burns out...
I was just thinking the same thing
We are so blessed, we don’t even know it. This team is winning and winning even though
1) Our best hitter is in the worst slump of his career
2) Our lead off hitter, the best in the majors, is on the DL
3) Our young hitting phenom just got back from the DL and has not refound his hitting stroke yet
4) Our best starter was out for the first 6 weeks of the season and
5) Our second best starter (at least from last year; now I am not so sure) is still out and may never pitch again (though it is looking better)
Amazing!
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
Positivity
I think baseball fans more than any other sport have to be positive. Even if this team has an unbelievable season, they’re going to lose at least 60 games. That’s a lot of losses.
My wife always complains
that baseball fans (me, my father) are inveterate pessimists (“he’s going to strike out!” “Frankie just walked another one!” “I know we’re going to lose this game!”). It comes from following a sport where hitters who fail 7 out of 10 times are great, and where losing 60-65 games is a great season. If you don’t remain positive, you’ll go crazy. Luckily, the Angels this year look pretty good, and we get to be positive way more than we have to be negative (those poor Mariner saps!)
Isn’t baseball the greatest?
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
i get that same thing all the time from my girlfriend
i also hear “well then why do you watch it so much if you’re always mad?”
i love this game…
Let Wood play!!!
by howiestheman on Jun 3, 2008 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions
i get the same thing. my lady always says that i take the fun out of it
I'd rather see Willits in LF
Yeah, when you look at those 5 things
the fact that we’ve been this good is astounding. Remember how K-Rod and Shields were hurt at the beginning of the year as well, and it wasn’t clear K-Rod’s if ankles would need surgery?
~Till the Halo burns out...
is it just me, or is Robb Quinlan the Luke Walton of the Hålos?
every time he’s got the ball in his hands I wince and cringe.
load the spaceship with the rocket fuel... load it with the warriors...
oh... and Frankie es el Pantera del mundo.
load the spaceship with the rocket fuel... load it with the warriors...
Perfect analogy.
The inconsistency, lack of athleticism, and every now and then he plays lights out.
hes always been a pretty solid hitter.........and his defense isnt outstanding by any means....
but more often than not…..he gets the job done
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions
And he's actually not that bad
We never want him to play, but when he does, he doesn’t screw up that badly in the grand scheme of things, and helps more than we give him credit for.
the A's came back and won in the bottom of the 11th......lame
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 11:00 PM PDT reply actions
I swear
Billy Beane has some kind of black magic, or sold his soul to the devil or something. I just can never figure out how those guys win so damn much.
And yet, I am not really that worried. They can’t possibly keep it up.
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
thats what we said about the mariners last year
and they didnt got away until the last couple weeks of the season
I'd rather see Willits in LF
yeah that last inning was filled with a bunch of weird plays.....leave it to the kitties to figure out how to lose a game they were up 3-0
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 11:04 PM PDT reply actions
Hokie Joe IS awesome
Having touted Frankie for Panther, I do have to admit I love how Hokie Joe has come into this own this year. His steelyl nerves are awesome, and the change from a competition between him and Black Magic for 5th starter to a competition for top starter in the AL is amazing (and great!)
Of course, the lack of love for the Angels in the mainstream media continues. I looked at all the major sites for a story on how Hokie Joe is the first 9-game winner in the AL, but all I found was crap about how Joba the Hutt couldn’t make it out of the 3rd inning! Finally, on Yahoo Sports I found the AP story with this quote:
“Using a sweeping curve and well-placed fastballs, he struck out five and walked one while lowering his ERA to 2.63. Saunders, who has yet to pitch an entire season in the major leagues, has allowed one or no earned runs in six of 12 starts this season.
Not bad for a $425,000 salary.”
Pretty f’ing amazing! So, even if I don’t think Hokie Joe should get Panther for tonight, he is the greatest!
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
i think cliff lee has 9 wins as well........
not that it matters…....
i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!
by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 3, 2008 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Frankie Panther supporters = Hillary Supporters
Never gonna give up shouting, even when your candidate has clearly lost.
Not to say I don’t appreciate Frankie, or for that matter, Hillary. But to the point:
Saunders faced serious adversity in this game, and as a young pitcher said “F you” and mastered it. Two errors in one inning, and he comes back out to pitch two more innings? Seriously?
Lackey didn’t pitch like that in adversity for years. That kind of inning is what made Kelvim a .500 pitcher for a couple of seasons.
Saunders may not quite have Lackey or Escobar stuff, but his makeup is nails. Nails, dude, nails.
Willits needs to play, every, single, freaking, day. Now.
that inning when he had to get 5 outs and it ended with a K was a big statement
I'd rather see Willits in LF
Yes. Totally agree.
Frankie was amazing tonight. But Saunders pitched through crap ass defense in order to even GET the ball to Frankie. Keep that in mind, people.
Willits needs to play, every, single, freaking, day. Now.
Ah yes, that...
Keep equally in mind that ‘Donde and Frankie made Joe’s Panther possible, because they ensured a Halo victory. It being a team sport and all.
Actually a really valid point
Especially considering I worried from the moment that Saunders gave up the ball that he wouldn’t get the win because the bullpen would give it up.
Definitely a tough call… and like I said below I really respect how dominant Frankie was tonight, but I gotta go for Saunders tonight.
Willits needs to play, every, single, freaking, day. Now.
Again, this is something of a continuation of what is percieved to be a flaw in the Panther system by a few of us.
The argument isn’t Franky was a clearly better candidate, but rather that if Franky DOESN’T win for this, then how the hell does he win, ever?
~Till the Halo burns out...
Saunders didn't pitch a normal 7.
He faced tough odds with the crappy defense. Again, similar to a Frankie 4 out save. Honestly, without those two errors in the game, we probably win 5-1, and Frankie doesn’t even pitch. Or if Saunders let’s those errors get to him, he allows another run or two, and Frankie doesn’t even get a save opportunity.
Willits needs to play, every, single, freaking, day. Now.
Franky didn't pitch a normal 9th.
He has no control of the circumstances upon entering the 9th inning. He must simply do his job once it gets there. And he did it the best HE POSSIBLY COULD tonight. Joe was not the best he could possibly be tonight. I recognize that Joe pitched well and got out of a tough jam, but I repeat the question: if not for tonight then how the hell does Franky win it? In the past year and a half there have been four 1-run games where Franky had a 1-2-3 9th (including this one). K-Rod has not recieved a panther for any of them. Last time was April 25th. Kotch got the Panther for 2 RBI and a nice defensive play.
~Till the Halo burns out...
Nicely said
We are getting hung up on comparing pitchers, but I think the Revs rule that a Panther is never for what is expected, only for the above and beyond, but hitters often win for something you might expect (a game winning hit).
To follow up on the Rev’s point that Panther is a gut thing, I think of it almost as a synonym for “Awesome!” except even more so. Well, in my book, striking out the side to win a 1-run game is pretty awesome on a totally gut level, almost as good as a game winning hit in the bottom of the ninth.
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
I'll agree with that.
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
Haha as a big Obama supporter
I’m definitely with you… but trying to be as reconciliatory as Obama was tonight, despite Hillary’s rant about still being relevant.
Willits needs to play, every, single, freaking, day. Now.
Oh god
let’s not start a Hillary/Obama subthread. I am almost as obsessed with politics as with baseball and I could SO go off on Hillary. But it would ruin the buzz over the Halos latest win and this awesome argument over which of our pitchers is the most bad-ass.
If you stop and think about it, how cool is that?
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
I agree
Saunders is amazing (see my post above). I guess it is just that the current system doesn’t allow the closer a chance, and we have one of the best (if not the best) closers in the game.
Having said that: Hillary supporters? That stings. I am an Obama supporter who has been really pissed at how she has hung on.
Oh, well, I guess we’ll have to wait for that mythical 4-out save. As has been said above, it is all in good fun anyhow.
Go Angels!
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
Hillary is waiting for an 8-out save.
I’m an huge Obama supporter, which is why I thought it an apt comparison. Don’t be pissed she hung on. The competition allowed all 50 states to voice their opinions. Be pissed she did so while making up all kinds of BS that had no basis in reality (i.e. that she won the popular vote, which is far from the truth).
Willits needs to play, every, single, freaking, day. Now.
To be clear
I meant the 8-out save comment. I have to tell my wife that one (she was a big Hillary supporter).
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
I officially recommend you don't.
Don’t reason with that. Just ask the question of preference between Obama and McCain. Makes it easier for Hillary supporters to stomach Obama.
Willits needs to play, every, single, freaking, day. Now.
Haha that's hilarious.
I actually watched the whole DNC RBC meeting on Saturday morning from my bed.
I also actually considering clawing my eyes out multiple times. I lose faith in our country on a regular basis.
...but nowhere near as often as Rob loses faith in the Angels.
Go Halos!
Willits needs to play, every, single, freaking, day. Now.
Didn't the guy who finished the 30-3 football game last year
for Texas, get credit for a save, since he pitched 3 innings?
Angels fan since '67
yeah wes littleton
if you pitch the final 3 innings in a game, or come in with the tying run on deck or a three run or less lead, and finish the game and are not eligable for the win, then it is a save
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 4, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
are we gonna need an overflow thread
for this one?
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
Holy Panther post gone crazy thread
I looked at the comments and thought this was the game post.
I have read all the posts. My conclusion:
Saunders for Panther (leads league with 9 wins now too).
Krod for 17mil/yr 5yr contract.
Angels Defense. Angels Pitching. Get past that.
thats a lot to pay a closer
i think there has to be limits on what you can pay a player who dosent play every day
I'd rather see Willits in LF
i think i wold be fine with a 12 million a year salary.
but id take 17 over 5 years if ninja also managed to get rid of HGH.
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 3, 2008 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I give you one HGH plus 5 million?
Save 5 million. 12 million plus 5 million = 17mil. Works.
Angels Defense. Angels Pitching. Get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jun 3, 2008 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
12?
The bar has been sent higher than that. He more Rivera-esque (15 per) than Franciso Cordero-esque (11.5 per). Unfortunately I think it is going to be 60 over 4….
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
id be fine with 60/4
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 4, 2008 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Less than Hunter is making.
If we were to go straight up, who do you take first over the next five years, I think I’d honestly go with the 26 year old elite closer over the 32 old pretty good CF (though Torii has certainly been nails this season).
~Till the Halo burns out...
and he helps with the glove too
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 4, 2008 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Now for the tough one
Let’s say NY offers Frankie 18/5. Frankie says: If the Angels offer 17/5, I will take it. What would you do.
Assumptions: Frankie keeps it up and has 60 saves and below 2 ERA.
Angels Defense. Angels Pitching. Get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jun 4, 2008 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Ooops, meant this for Anaheim
Angels Defense. Angels Pitching. Get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jun 4, 2008 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions
ooo, id be fine with teh angels paying 17 mil for frankie
but id feel alot better if they unloaded some payroll. well actually, judy comes off the books at the end of the year. i dont see him being resigned, so that frees up 9 Mil or so. so yeah, id tell the angels to do 17. but 18 at the uttermost max, not even if HGH leaves as part of it would i give him 19 a year
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 4, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
If he keeps getting saves at this pace
And with his league leading saves over the past few years. Who the hell knows what he could get from someone in need.
Angels Defense. Angels Pitching. Get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jun 3, 2008 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
As a Frankie supporter
I now gracefully concede and go to bed. Have a great night all.
As Rory Markus says, “Just another Halo victory”.
Get out the brooms tomorrow! Go Angels!
K-brothers rule! (Kendrick & Kotch)
on the dodgers blog site the most commented thing on their front page has 40 comments
todays gamethread has a whopping 2 comments, 1 of them by me. there are also game threads with 0 comments. have they given up that early in LA?
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
no no no
the problem ofr the SBN Dodger blog was A) it was the final SBN baseball blog B) Dodger Thughts had already assembled a critical mass of posters C) I think I recall the original True Blue LA guy split and so they almost had to start that blog from scratch after its very late debut.
Actually a good stat site for you slide-rule crowd…
K-Rod
Frankly, all a starting pitcher [LACKEY, WEAVER, SAUNDERS, maybe Judy] has to do is have a quality start or a start leading to a win to be Panthers.
Those guys can ideally pitch 6 or 7 innings, allow four or five runs and still get Panthers without no objection, objective stats be damned in case they aren’t dominant for any particularl start.
I think the three are kind of like the alpha figures on the roster and face of the franchise types people would point to first.
It is a guy like K-Rod who has to go ‘above and beyond’ with this extraordinary performance BS before he can be considered for being honorary co-panther or panther runner up – but never an outright panther.
Saunders allowed 1ER.
I’m not going to go all troll on you and suggest you didn’t watch the game, but Saunders really, truly, only allowed 1ER. There are a lot of times when the starters are the ones committing the errors which lead to unearned runs, and in that event, I’m with you. But Saunders tonight went a step further. He said screw the errors, I’m going to go a few extra innings anyway.
Without the errors, I think we might’ve seen Saunder’s 1st complete game. He didn’t use the errors as an excuse, and continued to pitch his game. Gotta love that.
Willits needs to play, every, single, freaking, day. Now.
One other K-Rod argument though:
A point I brought up earlier is that K-Rod has no Panther’s while Joe has 5. Joe will have another chance to earn himself a panther in 5 games. K-Rod’s next opportunity is whenever the gods will it, given that the only time he’s even eligible is in a 1-run save situation. It’s impossible to say when the next such situation may be. It might be tomorrow. It might be in a month. Given that he’s at least close in performance this time, I feel like the rarity of his opportunities plus the totality of his contribution to the cause this year (23 saves in 24 chances, most in the MLB, 0 panthers thus far) pushes him over the top in this case.
~Till the Halo burns out...
well, actually his next 1 run save opp was about...
15 minutes ago. but yeah, i see your point
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 4, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
To add to the above
The main reason there have been so many starter panthers this year is that they truly have been unspeakably good, while the offense has languished. While K-Rod v Saunders is the main argument here, I feel for Izturis, whose 3 RBI tonight were clutch and awesome and the main reason we exceeded 4 runs for the first time in two weeks.
~Till the Halo burns out...
Find me the instance where a Starting pitcher had LESS than a QS and got a Panther
Find it, BBFan1 and point it out as I am calling you out here and now as being full of shit until you do.
The momentum of this thread is winding down like an old clock.
I look forward to some fresh hacktastic takes tomorrow as the curious wander in to see what all the fuss was about in a post-game entry!
Panther 2 the Halos !!!
I was on the road, and unable to watch the game!!! Traffic on the I-10 sucked, go OBAMA and ANGELS !!!! ( I completely believe in both)!!!!!
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
Only if he takes Hill vp
or were walking.
Angels Defense. Angels Pitching. Get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jun 4, 2008 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I heard he is going with Cheney...
;P
"At some point, a veteran player will more often than not find his stroke. You just have to show them a little bit of patience."
by Downing Rules on Jun 4, 2008 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions
That is SO messed up
It took me like 40 min to find out what ;P meant.
Angels Defense. Angels Pitching. Get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jun 5, 2008 2:56 AM PDT up reply actions
GIVE IT TO FRANKIE
FIN.
If your a true Angel... Gary Mathews --you'll stare into the sun long enough to go blind.
In case you like a little schadenfreude with your nightcap...
...the atmosphere is maudlin over at LL:
“this game was the first two months of our season condensed and wrapped up in a neat little package with a gray tattered bow and a tag that reads “TO: HUGE IDIOT” and a scratch-n-sniff sticker that smells like old cheese for some reason. As nutshells go, this one was pretty complete”
I see red people
If I may take up a SABR in order to cleave POTG...
HokieJoe:
GeneralClutchiness+ComposureAsAllHellBreaksLoose = 0.52 Panther
Frankie:
VintageVINTAGEFrankie+StrikeOutTheSide = 0.48 Panther
...and what the hell, an extra 0.10 Panther to Izzy. So, I get the Frankie sympathy and we may all have the bitteryest pill to swallow should he return next year and hang these kind of performances on us for, say (as previously suggested, and quite possible) EvilEmpire!
Enough BITCHING...
lay down your vote and be done with it.
MY VOTE: FRANCISCO RODRIGUEZ
"At some point, a veteran player will more often than not find his stroke. You just have to show them a little bit of patience."
i'm telling you Rev...
you should have a voting system in place immediately after games. 2 or 3 candidates per.
voiting?
this is the revs website he makes the rules dont like it make your own site….holy shit that was alot of bitching over the panther….the fact of the matter is the starters get the credit no matter what thats life…...and who ever has the kid playing the dice game…either take the dice away or put him into some type of self defense class.
Here's how Frankie gets the panther:
He comes into a game where the team is leading by one run in a high scoring game, say 11-10. Clearly, the previous pitching has sucked. Clearly, unless it’s GA freakout night, one person has not carried the offense.
Frankie comes in and avoids drama, gets 3 outs and closes it out. That’s when he gets a panther.
Northeastern University Huskies: Mediocre hockey, guaranteed.
Not necessarily.
Could be that the mop-up guys blew it. after a good job by the starter. That happened in a game last year (April 21). Bart pitched 7 innings of 1 -run ball, and the Angels spotted him 7 runs in the bargain. Oliver+Shields managed to give up 5 runs in the 8th, necessitating Franky in the 9th. 2Ks, perfect inning, but Bart gets the Panther because he went 7 innings, 1 run.
~Till the Halo burns out...
also, scoring 11 runs mean someone had to be on fire
and id take a 4-5 night with 3+RBIs over a BB-rod save (for panther) any night of the week. obviously in reality id prefer a save tho since it means we won. but the truth of it is, Frankie faces about 4 batters in the game (3 outs and a WHIP of 1+=4 batters/inning roughly). A batter gets 4 ABs every game. If a batter gets onbase 4 times (even if they are all singles) he made roughly the same contribution k-rod did. but it also varies, did he hit HR, were there risp (although you cant penalize someone for the suckiness of the batters in front of him), how did he do in the field. The only time K-rod should be in contention for panther is if no batter had a great game, and the starter didnt pitch amazingly. Its just the role of a closer that the team had to have at least one player playing good to be up in the 9th inning. yes, its a little unfair for the closer, but K-rod will make 15-17 Million next year, which is 15-17 million more than im gonna make next year (probably) so i dont think hell care that much (no offense rev)
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 4, 2008 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions
You are closing in on the Flaw Of The Panther.
If the Halos don’t have the lead, Frankie doesn’t play (excluding mop-up roles where he is used just to give him some work).
And the only way the Halos have the lead is for:
a) at least one player on offense to do something positive
b) probably at least one pitcher to do something positive.
c) possibly at least on player on defense to do multiple positive things.
Therefore, Frankie is not even in contention until at least 1 or more other players randomly drawn from the rest of the roster do something good.
The next step is to look back at past selections, and the rationale behind those selections, and the defense given recently for that rationale, and realize that the bar for Frankie is quite high compared to the bar for the other players. For example, a 2-hit game can win it for a hitter, or even a 1-hit game if that hit comes in a late-enough inning. But Frankie’s challenge is that the expectation for him is to be perfect for at least 3 batters. His window for standing out is very narrow.
The result of this is that our measure of excellence, The Panther, has completely failed to recognize the value of his ability to shorten games over the past year and a third. The guy is an All-Star player. The most successful closer in all of baseball over the past few years. A potential HOF’er if he keeps this up, and the probable record holder for career saves. But if the several of us did not stand up and start bitching about the inbalance in the system, he could go his entire career without The Panther.
true
but would a multi panther system fix this injustice? because i just dont see any real other alternative. there could be a panther and lieutenant panther(s) or something for half credit.
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 4, 2008 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
There is a place for logic
it is not here.
Panther is emotion.
Forget how to think and learn how to cheer.
fair enough
I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!
by anaheim angels on Jun 5, 2008 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions

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