Hey #27 in RF, who are you and what have you done with Vlad Guerrero?

by K3YEROUT on Jun 5, 2008 3:21 PM PDT

Nothing like a slow off-day in June in the rainy northwest. Someone please let me know when Spring gets here. I voted for Kotch 25 times already and need more so here goes...mlb draft is a slow watch with no Angel picks!

I have posted a couple of blogs on SoCalSportsHub.com. Linkie to article which is copied below. I live in the Seattle area and love HH and the community of fans here. I like the give/take we have in HH. Many thanks to the Rev!

My PS/update to the article below is that I believe the Angels will place Vlad and probably Shields on the DL in the next day or two. I think one of the main lessons learned from last season is that the Angels know they have the talent and depth to win the west without all of their guns. The trick is to be as healthy as possible come October in order to play the Red Sux at full strength! This also allows young players who really have little to learn at AAA such as Wood, Aybar, Mathis, et al to play and learn at the highest level. A Vlad trip to the DL probably affords Kendry or Evans or some other hot Bee (Brown?) some major league time. Enough PS and on to the blog...

Here is my latest post...I did the unthinkable and chose Vlad as my topic...read on...

We just got home from the June 2nd game in Seattle. Good guys won by the way, 4-2. Outstanding pitching by Ervin Santana again AND on the road no less. Vlad was an unannounced late scratch from this game (entire series as it turns out). Some hack named Gary Matthews Jr. played right field for the Angels. Hardly the guy we paid to go see in right field.

Thus far Guerrero’s season looks like this, April .271, 3 HR, 14 RBI. May .219, 4 HR, 14 RBI. He is currently hitting .249, which at this point of the season is the lowest of his career (and .249 is rounding up!). These are not Vladimir Guerrero numbers. Guerrero and Lou Gehrig are the only two batters in major league history with ten or more consecutive seasons with an average over .300 and 25 or more homeruns. Mike Scioscia insists there is nothing physically wrong with Vlad.

I asked my 16 year-old son (proud owner of a #27 jersey) on the way home for his perspective of what ails Vlad. His first answer has been my greatest fear of this year. Is Vlad 32 in Dominican years? Is this the Tejada syndrome? Turns out Miguel turned 34 in May, not 32 as originally advertised. Is this common practice in major league baseball? I recently heard a former player say he was encouraged to change his age by about 4 months when he was a young minor leaguer. Does this mean Vlad really turned 34 or more back in February? Judging by the way he has played thus far it sure makes me wonder.

I would ask if you think Vlad is happy that May is over, but he promptly fouled an inside pitch off of his left knee over the weekend against Toronto. Another one of his futile attempts to hit a ball a foot inside over the fence. To his credit he gamely sucked it up and remained in the game. Then he promptly jammed his knee sliding hard into third base in a valiant effort that was a big part of the Angels comeback victory. He has not played since.

Vlad is a large man (6’3" 235 lbs) with a large strike zone. He has always been compared to the likes of Roberto Clemente for his lack of plate discipline and knack for hitting balls outside the strike zone. This has proved to be a blessing and a curse. He extends the strike zone to the point that pitchers do not have to throw him a strike to get him out. When he is going well it does not appear to matter, and when he is struggling it makes him look silly, stupid, (enter appropriate adjective here). Vlad has taken this struggle to new heights in 2008. Frequently swinging at enough balls out of the strike zone to have drawn a walk and gets himself out. It is brutal to watch and must be very frustrating to him.

I leave you with two thoughts to contemplate. First, what would Vlad's career numbers be if he had the pitch selection of a Manny Ramirez or Adam Dunn? How many times would he have hit .400?

Lastly, I have heard many fans of the Angels complain about the "east-coast" bias of the national sports media. In this instance, I suspect Vlad is very lucky to be playing for a west coast team. Imagine for a second if he played for the Yankees or Red Sox and was putting up numbers such as these. Think the pressure is getting to him now? He might never recover. From what I have read from the west coast media thus far, he is getting a free pass. How much longer until he starts to hear from disgruntled fans?

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

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Comments

i dunno......

its hard not to give Vlad a break since he single-handedly brought an AL WEST title to the team in 04…...w/o him….the angels wouldnt have AL west titles in 3 of the last 4 years…..(not counting this year)

But its not just vlad being hurt, but figgy and Howie being gone extended amount of time not to mention lackey and escobar….....something is rotten in demark so to speak…..but i agree with you on the letting the younger guys play while we have the chance…...might as well let these kids get experience…...all while in the hunt for the division…...it will def be interesting to see how this plays out.

i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!

by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 5, 2008 3:57 PM PDT reply actions

norcal

This post isn’t aimed at you specifically because I don’t know how you react when a reliever or starting pitcher doesn’t do so well.

But one thing I’ve noticed about following the Angels is that their hitters are given 10 times more rope than their pitchers in fan’s eyes.

Scot Shields had a flat out dominant run as pretty much any reliever in MLB for a few years and then he struggles for a couple months and Angels fans are calling him Gas Can Shields and other names. Frankie is one of the best closers in baseball and yet when he blows one very few people are very forgiving.

I went to one of Saunders last starts at the Big A and I’m dead serious when I say people where booing him when he gave up like 5 runs. He had an ERA of under 3 and was leading the league in Wins and people are booing him?

I can even think back to when Omar Olivares was on the team and was literally on the AL Leaderboard for ERA and the fan consensus was that he sucked because every once in a while he had a bad game.

by MH252525 on Jun 5, 2008 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions

well i dont think the booing is at saunders overall......

the word fan as you probably knows comes from FANATIC…....and so people are so accustomed to winning around here lately that even one hiccup (in a 162 game season) drives some people up the perverbial wall…..so i understand where you are coming from….Most fans wants their team to win every game, even though they know its not possible (see NE PATS) so when the team loses a game or series…..they have to take it out on someone…...so there is always good with the bad…..being a true fan allows you to voice your displeasure at mediocrity, especially if you know that the player can be better….....but a “REAL” fan looks beyond the one “misstep” and tries to analyze the situation approriately…....I try to model myself after this, but sometimes i fall victim to the “blame game” because it all boils down to wins and losses…..and be honest…...no one likes a loser…..whether it be an AB, a game, season, what have you….....

but i def enjoyed your post, and i hope my response helps clear up atleast my way of thinking on the subject.

i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!

by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 5, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions

but a "REAL" fan looks beyond the one "misstep" and tries to analyze the situation approriately

Very well said! I also believe in that approach to being a fan at the game.

by MH252525 on Jun 5, 2008 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions

So you were one of the few NOT booing Mo Vaughn

...sure you were…

by Rev Halofan on Jun 5, 2008 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions

I hardly went to any games during the Mo Vaughn era

I was a poor college student with a schedule that changed every 10 weeks. I don’t specifically remember booing Mo, but if I did I know it was for a lack of effort. I’ll boo any player that swings at a ball in the dirt and doesn’t run it out like Aybar did forcing the bad throw. That’s a big pet peeve of mine.

by MH252525 on Jun 5, 2008 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions

first of all, fan no longer means fanatic. not with all these bandwagoning sux fans.

but also, i think batters are given more rope because if they struggle, big deal. its 1 AB. its usually not that noticable and doesnt hurt the team that badly. but when a pitcher struggles, the team usually loses the game. so the margin of error is much smaller for a pitcher, and the results far more dramatic than a hitter,

I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!

by anaheim angels on Jun 5, 2008 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions

Did you pay $34 per seat or were they given to you?

When I pay $34 per seat, I have a right to express my feelings at that moment. However, I will be the first guy to cheer EXTRA LOUD when you do something right.

Omar Olivares got plenty of my boos.

"At some point, a veteran player will more often than not find his stroke. You just have to show them a little bit of patience."

by Downing Rules on Jun 5, 2008 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions

They actually cost $135 a seat

If in Joe Saunders next start he gave up 5 consecutive homeruns to start the game I wouldn’t boo him. I only really boo players for lack of effort.

by MH252525 on Jun 5, 2008 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions

wait, so... when you pay for stuff u get to bitch about it then

got it.

If your a true Angel... Gary Mathews --you'll stare into the sun long enough to go blind.

by calikraze on Jun 5, 2008 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions

cant argue with that.

i root for teams that lack offense! go halos and bills!

by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 5, 2008 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Surely...

you buy a car, it breaks down…

are you going to APPLAUD the car for the great effort it gave or the fact that it broke down in BFE?

"At some point, a veteran player will more often than not find his stroke. You just have to show them a little bit of patience."

by Downing Rules on Jun 6, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions

MH25etc..

“But one thing I’ve noticed about following the Angels is that their hitters are given 10 times more rope than their pitchers in fan’s eyes.”

Um yes, the best batters in MLB hit over .300; which of course means three hits in every ten at bats. Which means that a MLB pitcher generally beats the best hitters, generally, in the MLB 70% percent of the time. So ya, there should be a bit more rope extended to the batter versus the pitcher.

by cupie on Jun 5, 2008 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions

good point

I think that is an excellent point on why pitchers are booed more frequently than hitters during the course of a game. A hitter is never expected to get a key hit and are therefore almost any individual ab it is hard to find fault with them.

However moving beyond players being booed, I still think Angels pitchers are scrutinized and held to much higher standards than their offensive counterparts.

Take Hector Carrasco for example in 2006 he had an ERA + of 134 whereas GA had an OPS+ of 94 and even Vlad who finished 9th in the MVP voting had an OPS+ of 138. Yet Carrasco was never really looked that highly upon even though he did have a very solid year (and no I am not saying Carrasco was anywhere near as valuable as Vlad). I brought up Omar Olivares and I think he is a great example of what I’m taking about. He had ERA+ of 118 and 120 during his 2 years with the Angels but man I remember hardly any Angels fans ever gave him any credit yet, Darin Erstad who put up a horrible 74 OPS+ in 1999 was thought of in much higher regard than Olivares.

by MH252525 on Jun 5, 2008 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions

carrasco had a 4.62 ERA after 15 games.

and had a 4.38 ERA pn august 18th. but from then on in the last 26 innings he allowed 2 runs on 16 hits with 15 ks and 5 walks. he was kinda mediocre for most of the season and then was on fire down the stretch. so people were giving him shit the whole year because he deserved it (except for the last month)

I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!

by anaheim angels on Jun 5, 2008 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions

MH25etc... cont...

“However moving beyond players being booed, I still think Angels pitchers are scrutinized and held to much higher standards than their offensive counterparts.”

My man, how is this any different than your previous post: "But one thing I’ve noticed about following the Angels is that their hitters are given 10 times more rope than their pitchers in fan’s eyes."

Are we discussing rope or booing?

Seriously, comparing Vlad and Erstad vs Olivares and Carrasco… What pair would you rather have on your team.

by cupie on Jun 5, 2008 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Well

With Erstad finishing his Angels career with 6 straight seasons with an OPS under league average despite playing 1B and the OF I would have to say

Vlad> Olivares > Erstad > Carrasco

by MH252525 on Jun 5, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Keep in mind too

the Angels claim to base their success on pitching and defense. That’s another reason we should scrutinize pitching more than hitting.

Kendrick - he's a tender little guy.

by Rally Manatee on Jun 5, 2008 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions

Vlad

K3! Excellent post!

by MH252525 on Jun 5, 2008 3:59 PM PDT reply actions

Thank you!

This is bad Vlad and his band of wimps!

by K3YEROUT on Jun 5, 2008 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Age-related decline is a bitch

Offhand guessing, but 33% chance his career is over. I’m still of the camp that says he’ll have some value down the stretch, but every day he does nothing at the plate is another day closer to that fishing trip in the Dominican.

Witty .sig goes here.

by scareduck on Jun 5, 2008 5:41 PM PDT reply actions

i say we exercise his option next year, just be sure

if he comes back, great.
if he doesnt, then we might see the end of Vlad in Anaheim…

so who becomes our new Vlad?

Let Wood play!!!

by howiestheman on Jun 5, 2008 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Age related decline plus poor plate discipline =

drop off a cliff. I’d second the 33% odds. Vlad has never really learned to use his head. He still relies on natural ability almost exlusively and when that goes, he’s going to face a very dramatic decline.

by HungryHunter on Jun 5, 2008 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions

I am keeping the faith that he will rebound when he comes back

He is a hard guy to say bad things about and I certainly wish him nothing but the best. I am hopeful he will realize he has talent around him and start just doing as much as one guy can do instead of trying to hit 5 run HR’s everytime up. Hit the ball to RF and get his BA back up where we all know it can be and the HR’s will eventually follow. He has to stop trying to hit everything as hard as he possibly can!

This is bad Vlad and his band of wimps!

by K3YEROUT on Jun 5, 2008 9:28 PM PDT reply actions

I also find it interesting that noone has yet discussed my 2 final points…pitch selection and east coast bias…

This is bad Vlad and his band of wimps!

by K3YEROUT on Jun 5, 2008 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions

East Coast Attitudes

no toleration for such numbers… Vlad wouldn’t be this soft ….

sparky

by sparkplug on Jun 5, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions

pitch selection has been recently discussed which is why it probaly wasn't discussed here

I brought up the same point and was essentially told that Vlad has put up such great numbers because of his lack of plate discipline.

by MH252525 on Jun 5, 2008 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions

MH252525

I’ll give you this, it takes a brass pair, to state something you KNOW isn’t gonna be popular. A few days back I committed the cardinal sin of saying in a very nonchalant offhand way, that B Woods continued problems at the plate and inability to come through in certain situations was going to cost us at some point. You woulda thought that I farted on somebodies food.

YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....

by halofolife on Jun 5, 2008 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Pitch selection

WILL solve most of his woes! He just needs to realize this!

I saw a couple of good AB’s right before he got hurt…he took some borderline pitches outside, checked his swing, took a couple BB’s…he starts going to the right side…he will get out of this funk.

If he continues to swing from the heels at everything…this is going to be a LONG summer!

This is bad Vlad and his band of wimps!

by K3YEROUT on Jun 6, 2008 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions