The only guy I think would be worth it...

by NoDakHalo on Jul 1, 2008 7:54 PM PDT

Matt Holliday.

We need a big bat. We need an outfielder that isn't 35 and that doesn't suck. I hate to break up the soul patrol, but it is what it is.

Out pitching staff is fine, even without Escobar and Adenhart.

Keep Frankie. Find a way to get rid of GA (as much as he's done for this organization, we need to draw the line somewhere), GMJ, and their salaries. Hell, use Escobar as trade bait (I personally don't see him pitching anywhere near where he used to be ever again).

We still have Lackey, Garland, Weaver, Santana, and Saunders. We still have Shields, Arredondo, and hopefully Frankie.

Think of having Holliday's ops+ of 141 in the lineup rather than GMJ's 84 and GA's 76.

I know he'd be expensive, but at this point I'd be willing to spend.

What do you think we'd have to give up to get Holliday? Do you even think its realistic? Would you be as willing to give up as much as I would?

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I am sure we could get Colorado to part with Holliday

Let’s See, hey they will only want Santana, Kendrick and Willits. Escobar is toast until this time next year.

by Rev Halofan on Jul 1, 2008 8:30 PM PDT 0 recs

Holliday is definitely on the block

but at what cost?
it may be better to go after Atkins, if you want to trade with the Rockies.

we can’t afford to trade MLB starting pitching, which means Adenhart is gone and possibly Green or Walden. Willits gets traded, along with Kendry and one of Mathis/Napoli.
final offer: Adenhart, Walden, Willits, and Mathis/Morales for Holliday.

can we handle it? yes, is it a good idea? hmm…ask me in October. that’s a steep price to pay, not to mention the contract he’ll want

Mike Scioscia: He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by howiestheman on Jul 1, 2008 8:44 PM PDT 0 recs

i'd give them

adenhart, walden, willits, and morales

my bad...k-rod is good.

by NoDakHalo on Jul 1, 2008 9:12 PM PDT up 0 recs

They laugh in your face over that BS

They want at least 2 proven major leaguers, one being an arm – plus a prospect – hey we are talking MATT HOLLIDAY here, duh….

by Rev Halofan on Jul 1, 2008 9:46 PM PDT up 0 recs

so that turns in to...

Aybar, Willits, Kotchman and Adenhart.

now how bad does it hurt?

Mike Scioscia: He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by howiestheman on Jul 1, 2008 9:47 PM PDT up 0 recs

Aybar and Willits are not PROVEN major leaguers

and Kotch is on the bubble – that is how a hardball negotiation goes, back an forth, the rockies would say CALL US BACK WHEN YOU ARE SERIOUS…

by Rev Halofan on Jul 1, 2008 10:34 PM PDT up 0 recs

then Kendrick's also on the bubble, from your first proposal

so now it comes down to pitching, which we obviously can’t trade away. so now who goes?

Figgins…. and who else? if Kotch isn’t an proven MLB player (or he’s on the bubble), then by that standard, the only ones we have left are the high priced ones in the outfield, and Lord knows they’re not going anywhere.

i think they’d be willing to take guys like Aybar, Kendrick, Kotch and Matholi (it’s easier to combine them). those are good, young players with bright futures ahead of them.

any way you slice it, it just doesn’t seem like a good match up.

Mike Scioscia: He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by howiestheman on Jul 1, 2008 10:38 PM PDT up 0 recs

NO proven ML pitching NO Holliday

Weaver or Santana + Kotch or Kendrick and of course Adenahrt

by Rev Halofan on Jul 1, 2008 11:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

I would GLADLY fork over Weaver, Kendrick, and Adenhart.

And I would throw in Speier just for laughs. Kotchman and Santana would be a no-deal for me though. Holliday is just not quite that great a player in my eyes though I would love to have him on our team.

by 44FAN on Jul 1, 2008 11:44 PM PDT up 0 recs

hmm... tough choice

obviously, Weaver gets traded; you have to keep Santana (something i didn’t think i’d say haha)

between Kotch and Howie… hmm… if you let Kotch go, you have K-Mo and possibly Rivera who can take over (hopefully K-Mo), plus you can make a run at Tex over the next offseason. but, you’ll be giving up one of your best players.

with Howie, you’re losing a huge batting average and solid defender. you can put Figgins at 2B, Izzy at 3B and Aybar at SS until Wood is ready to take over 3B (either late this year or next year). plus, SRod is waiting in the distant wings, but he’ll end up being another Izzy/Figgins type.

tough call… all things considered, i think i’d go Weaver, Kotch and Adenhart for Holliday, but during the offseason. GA and Rivera will be gone, which means Holliday slides right into LF and GMJ continues in his 4th OF/DH role. Morales, hopefully healthy, comes into 1B. though he’s not nowhere near the defender that Kotchman is, he’s got a better bat. if you don’t want K-Mo coming in (though i dont know why), you can always make a run at Tex, like i previously stated.

wow… i think i over-analyzed that.

lineup becomes:

Figgins 3B (if re-signed, which i expect)
Izzy/Aybar SS
Holliday LF
Vlad DH
Hunter CF
K-Mo 1B
Howie 2B
Matthews RF
Napoli C

if Figgins is not resigned, it becomes:

Izzy/Aybar SS
Howie 2B
Holliday LF
Vlad DH
Hunter CF
K-Mo 1B
Matthews RF
Napoli C
Wood 3B

you can’t go wrong either way, though i honestly think i like option B better. it’s hard to replace Figgins, but i’ll take the added power.

Mike Scioscia: He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by howiestheman on Jul 1, 2008 11:44 PM PDT up 0 recs

weaver, kendrick, adenhart

for holliday and jimenez

jimenez has a 4.47 in 33 career starts and 1 relief appearance
moseley has a 5.54 career era between his starts and relief appearances
weaver has a 3.58 (and rising) career era, 4.30 this season

my bad...k-rod is good.

by NoDakHalo on Jul 2, 2008 9:51 AM PDT up 0 recs

Ohhh FFS Figgins (certainly) and Kotch

are proven major leaguers, on par with Matt Holliday who was unknown until 2 years ago and is not known for his ability outside Coors.

I wouldn’t put any more than 1 proven major leaguer (Desmond, Kotch, Kendrick) or 2 proven prospects (Aybar, Matholi), and try to get the Rockies to accept 2 of our best prospects. Dick Wood and Adenhart come to mind.

Don't call me Desmond

by highlandhalo on Jul 2, 2008 7:37 PM PDT up 0 recs

beat me to it...

it’d be steep… if i had to give up a starter it’d be weaver…then willits/rivera(hes gone next yr. anyway),adenhart, and mathis. but even then who takes weaver’s place in the rotation this season? moseley?(gag)

And you can LITE UP THAT HALO !!!

by BigBangRobbDawgg on Jul 1, 2008 9:51 PM PDT 0 recs

More than that

CALL US BACK WHEN YOU ARE SERIOUS…

by Rev Halofan on Jul 1, 2008 10:35 PM PDT up 0 recs

understandable if we don't want to give up that much for holliday...

we’d have to give up a lot in order to get a lot in return, and i can certainly understand the argument against it.

i just see him as the only guy it would even be worth trying to work out a deal for. i wouldn’t trade squat for any other player that is rumored to be on the trading block right now. there simply isn’t anyone else even worth a look in my opinion. go big or go home.

my bad...k-rod is good.

by NoDakHalo on Jul 1, 2008 9:56 PM PDT 0 recs

Except for...the fact this was inevitable...

ANAHEIM—Right-hander Kelvim Escobar suffered a setback on Monday night in his road to recovery from a torn right labrum when he experienced shoulder pain after pitching three innings at Class A Rancho Cucamonga.
Escobar, who actually pitched well by retiring nine of the 10 batters he faced, said he could tell during warmups that something was wrong with his shoulder. But he still decided to pitch and on Tuesday he admitted that it wasn’t the right decision.

linkie

This is BAD Vlad and his band of wimps!

by K3YEROUT on Jul 1, 2008 10:01 PM PDT 0 recs

had a feeling all this talk...

about his recovery speeding along would lead to the realization that it was rushed.

my bad...k-rod is good.

by NoDakHalo on Jul 1, 2008 10:05 PM PDT up 0 recs

He is the guy

This dude is the only player I would really feel comfortable with giving up serious talent, even if it’s just a rental until FA. We would still get the compensation picks.

If the Rockies insist on Kotchman tho, they can piss off.

by elricsi on Jul 1, 2008 10:18 PM PDT 0 recs

home/road splits

no me gusta.

http://inplaynoouts.blogspot.com/ - A blog about teams I like, written by me.

by Carl Johnson on Jul 1, 2008 10:53 PM PDT 0 recs

you can expect that with any Rockies player, humidifier or not.

this year:

home: .362/.441/.610 with 6 homers
away: .309/.401/.472 with 4 homers

i’d take his away line on our team… he’s better than GA/GMJ.

Mike Scioscia: He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by howiestheman on Jul 1, 2008 11:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

Career split, worse even then this year:

home: .323/.425/.624 with 75 HR in 1347 PA
away: .277/.340/.459 with 38 HR in 1297 PA

Dude is not BAD on the road, but he is no better than slightly-above-average away from Coors. Do not sell the farm for him, for the love of God. Thanks.

Willits needs to play, every, single, freaking, day. Now.

by 101halo on Jul 2, 2008 12:04 AM PDT 0 recs

Not to mention the ever-present NL-AL transition problem

Just like Miggy Cabs, his power and hitting ability will diminish in the AL, on top of any Coors-related drop-off. He’s not worth it. Maybe as an FA, but other than that, not so much.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 2, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up 0 recs

Adressing two things in general

A) The rockies do not want a catcher, they already have a good propsect in chris ianneta, and unfortunately we will not be able to give them a catcher, we will have to give them other prospects (although jsut imagine what napoli could do in coors!)
B) Home/Road splits. There will always be sizeable home/road splits. As a league, the OPS difference between home and away are 50 points. Hollidays are bigger than that, but in the AL he will most likely increase his #s and the baseline #s for holliday as an angel i would say are about .300/.380/.500. Id definitely love that. And upon consideration, losing howie wouldnt be as bad with aybar/izturis becoming competent to above average players. Kotch i will not trade under almost any circumstances, he is too good and has wayyyy to much upside, and is a GGer. I am also very uncomftorable trading a starting pitcher because we are thin in depth at that position, and if we trade weaver, and garland goes, we could be looking at a rotation of Lackey, Ervin, joe, adenhart (if we dont trade him) and green. Obviously we would have to make a run at a FA pitcher such as CC or Sheets (although id prefer CC because sheets is the NL version of Harden), and it would help if we could trade GMJ, because we would free up some 26 million dollars.
If we do make a trade, i think it should be Howie, Weaver, Green, and Willits/Juan for Holliday. We would have a lineup of..
3B-Figgy
2B-Maicer
LF-Holliday
RF-Vlad
CF-Torii
1B-Kotch
DH-Morales
C-Naps
SS-Aybar
that would be a kickass lineup!
Pitching wise…
Lackey
CC (if we can unload GMJ to free up cap space) or Garland (i think its either we resign garland, or we go after CC)
Ervin
Joe
Adenhart/Green/ someone we could get from a trade of one of mapoli
(the rotation if its CC is prolly standing like this, or if its garland, then shift garland to the #4)
Thats actually a really good team. like a legit WS team

I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!

by anaheim angels on Jul 2, 2008 1:32 AM PDT 0 recs

figuring cap wise...

we free up 26 MM from GMJ/Ga
we free up 12 MM from Garland
(the money we free up from Juan goes to Vlad and raises to our INF)
We spend 16 on CC
We spend 15 on Holliday
We could actually feasibly lower our cap (although chances are CC could be up to 3 Million more and holliday could be 2 million more). That would free up some room for us to sign Kotch, Aybar, figgins, hokie and voodoo to long term deals

I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!

by anaheim angels on Jul 2, 2008 1:36 AM PDT up 0 recs

GMJ has a No Trade clause contract thru 2009 and limited No Trade after that.

by 44FAN on Jul 2, 2008 1:44 AM PDT up 0 recs

www.mlb4u.com has all the player's contracts listed on it's site thru the search bar.

by 44FAN on Jul 2, 2008 1:53 AM PDT up 0 recs

i know, thats the only main problem i see with this. We might have to make this a 3 way deal

with say….the yankees. We send the yankees HGH and Mapoli, they trade the rockies a decent player (possibly wislon betemiet), and us some prospect(s). We give the Rockies Juan/Reggie, Howie, and Weaver. We get Holliday.
Overall it would work out
Angels Give: HGH, Mapoli, Juan/Reggie, Howie
Angels Get: Holliday, maybe a prospect or two
Yankees Get: GMJ, mapoli
Yankees Give: Wilson Betemiet or other decent major leaguer, prospects
Rockies Give: Holliday
Rockies Get: Kendrick, Weaver, Juan/Willits, Wilson Betemeit or other Yankee decent MLer, maybe some yankee prospect or two.

It doesnt necesarilly have to be the yankees, but they seem likely because they need an OF and wont mind paying alot of money for one. (GMJ would most likely agree to be traded to the yanks since he would most likely start (considering matsuis injury))

I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!

by anaheim angels on Jul 2, 2008 2:01 AM PDT up 0 recs

Send Frankie to the Yankees...

I have a strong feeling he’ll be replacing Rivera next year anyway….

by BruinHalo on Jul 2, 2008 2:45 PM PDT up 0 recs

Rivera is in the first year of a three year deal at $15 million per.

And putting up career numbers. K-Rod ain’t replacing NOBODY except Rivera’s setup man, if he goes to the Yanks.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 2, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up 0 recs

Yeah, I don't see the Yanks

forking over $30+ million per annum for two closers. It makes no sense at all. If Rivera was blowing it this year, it could be a different story, but there are many other issues on that team to address.

by Downing Rules on Jul 2, 2008 4:06 PM PDT up 0 recs

Frankie to the Yanks rumors are ricockulous

Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.

Kobe tell me how my ass tastes

by hauldog on Jul 2, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up 0 recs

Arredondo is one of the key cogs in this equation ...

as well as whether or not you believe Escobar is actually still hurt (I don’t think he is, I think this is clever spin by the Angels PR Dept).

If Arredondo can step into the Shields role, and Shields can close the rest of the year …

Why not move Frankie / GMJ / Weaver for parts that work?

Three-way trade with the Yankees and Mariners?

Yanks get Frankie (and deal with his upcoming contract issue)
Mariners get GMJ and Weaver and a Yanks prospect (and we split GMJ’s remaining $$$ with the Yanks)
Angels get Ichiro and a Yanks prospect

Think about that one …

Don't call me Desmond

by highlandhalo on Jul 2, 2008 7:45 PM PDT 0 recs

OK just looked at that again and if I was the Mariners I want a bit more

Don't call me Desmond

by highlandhalo on Jul 2, 2008 7:47 PM PDT up 0 recs

Okay. This is my Shields rant-

Shields doesn’t like closing. Every time he has been forced into that role, he has started blowing saves left and right. There is a reason Shields took $4 million per over 4 years rather than go be a closer somewhere else for uberbucks, and that is that he likes setting up. He’s good at it. He’s not mentally cut out for closing, from what I’ve seen, but the secret is he knows it. And is okay with it. He’s a roleplayer, and he likes it that way.

So if we trade K-Rod (not smart, and the Yankees aren’t going to give us anything we want) Arredondo becomes the closer.

As you say though, the larger issue here is that the M’s are getting shafted hard.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 2, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up 0 recs

and...

he likes Bud Light.

by Downing Rules on Jul 3, 2008 9:30 AM PDT up 0 recs

Ichiro

Is not worth the money. There I said it. A slap hitting RFer who is a prima dona is not the answer

Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.

Kobe tell me how my ass tastes

by hauldog on Jul 3, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up 0 recs

prima dona? are you serious??

he is, by all accounts i’ve ever seen, one of the most humble guys and one of the best teammates you can have around.

Mike Scioscia: He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by howiestheman on Jul 3, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up 0 recs

Seattle locker room says otherwise.

Even Jeff, the LL guy, admits that Ichiro has a wall put up around himself. He does his thing, every day, and that’s all he believes should be expected of him. Like many stars with this attitude, he gets a rep of selfishness because of this. It’s unfair, but true all the same.

That said, prima donna-ness isn’t what bothers me, it’s the fact that we already have a guy who does what Ichiro does, and his name is Chone Figgins.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 3, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up 0 recs