Superb

cant argue with Magic Man

7 inn 0 runs 2 bb (none after the second) 10 K’s!!!!!!

kudos to Admiral though: nice all around game 2 runs scored and great defense. Also Kudos to Rivera for the two out RBI…........

non kudos: Torri…....for being uber-unclutch…....2 on 1 out = K then again grounding into a DP to kill the semi rally in the 9th…........one of these days torii will get a clutch hit…..and maybe justify all the love he gets around here…....

http://www.diehard101.com/phpfox/upload/norcaliangelsbillsfan

by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 12, 2008 8:59 PM PDT reply actions

He hit his uber-clutch hit

Grandslam walk off

Maybe we should start one of those wave things?

by WillGoAngels27 on Jul 12, 2008 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions

so that one makes up for the 20 others he doesnt have?

http://www.diehard101.com/phpfox/upload/norcaliangelsbillsfan

by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 12, 2008 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions

That

and the fact that he’s our second best hitter.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 12, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions

well you missed it tonight then.........he certainly didnt "hit" like he was our second best hitter

and if that was him…....then I dont like our chances moving forward.

http://www.diehard101.com/phpfox/upload/norcaliangelsbillsfan

by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 12, 2008 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions

See this would be the big difference

1 game remains 1 game. The season remains the season. Fact is, over the season, Torii has outhit every body on the team not named Kendrick or Vlad, and unlike Kendrick, he’s been healthy and unlike Vlad, he still fields his position pretty well. Trying to say Torii Hunter is a bad player makes you seem exactly as smart as BleacherDave does right now after saying this game would “expose Santana as a fraud.”

If you’re okay with looking that stupid, be my guest.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 12, 2008 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions

i never said Torri was a bad player.......

But i would say he is under-performing…....but maybe its my fault for thinking he was actually better than he is..I’ve seen him come up numerous times with guys on base and he K’s or pops out to the infield, i often wonder why did the Angels sign him again…it just seems for like for such a “big time” player….....he rarely comes thru in the clutch.

http://www.diehard101.com/phpfox/upload/norcaliangelsbillsfan

by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 12, 2008 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Well, assuming "the clutch" is close and late, he's opsing .850 in those spots with 3 homers

If you think Torii is underperforming, it’s probably because you haven’t adjusted his career stats based on Angel stadium. If you think he somehow hasn’t been clutch, I don’t know how to help you, since his 43 RBI suggest he’s knocking all kinds of people in, and we both know that the Angels have needed every run they’ve gotten this year. He’s 2nd in homers, 2nd in steals, 1st in doubles, 4th in RBI, 1st in Runs, 2nd in total bases, 3rd in OPS. He has 3 assists, no errors and an .877 ZR in CF.

Me? I’m going off the stats. The stats say he’s been the second best position player on the team. If you have some kind of clutchness sense that isn’t lighting up, I dunno what to tell you. All my observations have been that he’s absolutely as clutch as anyone else on the team.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 12, 2008 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions

fair enough.........i'll try to re-evaluate what im seeing........

although i would like to point out…...his 2nd on homers for THIS team isnt saying much…..

Also come October…....if Torii hits about .230 with 1 homer and 4 RBI’s in a 4-1 series loss i want you to remember this convo.

http://www.diehard101.com/phpfox/upload/norcaliangelsbillsfan

by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 12, 2008 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions

If we lose 4-1

Torii won’t have been the main reason. I also personally feel like giving yourself a free pass to root against someone all seasons then if he does well at the end, say “oh well, I guess I was wrong, but we won so its cool,” is about the most gutless thing in the whole world. But you know what? Your on.

Given Torii’s career postseason line of .300 .337 .538 in 21 games, I like my odds.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 12, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions

How is it gutless if I admit that I am wrong? I dont think I will be.......

but if I am then I can admit I was wrong. Im not ACTIVELY rooting against him, I was glad the Angels got him, but so far Im not exactly THRILLED with the return.

http://www.diehard101.com/phpfox/upload/norcaliangelsbillsfan

by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 12, 2008 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Because admitting you were wrong is easy thanks to the fact that we won

Admitting you were wrong and taking the heat for a loss? That’s hard.
Also, when you’re turning his name into a sound alike for “Terrible” it gets really hard to believe that you A) aren’t rooting against him or B) that you don’t think he’s a bad player.

People don’t call Matthews “Massacre” because they think he’s “underperforming.” They do it because they think he’s bad and sometimes they are also rooting against him (which is stupid, but whatever).

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 12, 2008 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions

tonight they won despite him..........

and they have won countless others despite him. People on here also bitch when someone has a crappy at bat…..........but then in the next at bat when they get a hit or whatever they offer kudos…....i am no different, you dont see me call him “torii-ble” when he does something great…...but you tell me whats good about your 15-16 million dollar “STAR Free Agent” Striking out horribly against your division rival in a crucial spot in the game? That wasnt even a productive out…......something someone of “Torii’s” reputation should be doing…......

http://www.diehard101.com/phpfox/upload/norcaliangelsbillsfan

by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 12, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions

and not to mention rally killing double plays........

How is it okay to cheer him when he does well…....but then not acknowledge when he does something horrible?

http://www.diehard101.com/phpfox/upload/norcaliangelsbillsfan

by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 12, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Because that's true for guys like Vlad, Kendrick, Kotch

too, but I don’t see you doing that to them. I don’t see you doing it to Garret.

Because at the end of the day, Torii has helped us more than any other every-day guy save Vlad.

Because Torii plays a high-skill position at center very well, which you for some reason seem to ignore. Does it occur to you that we are paying Torii a lot of money in part because he has really good defense at an important defensive position?

Because you go into every game with the expectation of calling him Torii-ble, seem disappointed when you can’t, and thrilled when you get the opportunity. You don’t even wait till he does it.

Because you knock a two homer game where the other team came back on us and the three runs Torii provided us were the margin of victory.

These things to me do not say “acknowledging the bad.” They say, “I am rooting against one guy out of spite.”

Just like highlandhalo earlier in the year rooting against K-Rod despite his excellent record, I find it completely inconceivable that you bash possibly the only position player on the team who has done exactly what you could have expected him to do based on his prior numbers. His pay is irrelevant. He has produced at the level any reasonable person would have expected given his career numbers.

If you were expecting something else than this, I’d like you to justify why, because his numbers say business as usual.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 12, 2008 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions

well you must only notice when i bag on torii then because

I def give every grief….....and I def give everyone praise…....my perception of torii hasnt been like this the entire year its just been lately. I am seeing each “individual” at bat and TO ME (key phrase) he is getting his numbers (which you keep alluding back to) when “most” of the time it doesnt matter…....im not seeing him doing anything extraordinary, and like i said before maybe thats my fault….....I guess I saw him as an extraordinary player(like vlad) when in reality he’s just very good player (like GA)

http://www.diehard101.com/phpfox/upload/norcaliangelsbillsfan

by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 12, 2008 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions

He's definitely just a GA.

He is not a Vlad, never has been, and never will be.

And if you’ve been giving other players their criticism, perhaps the reason I’ve noticed Torii more is because he’s the only one for whom you’ve invented a derogatory nickname.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 12, 2008 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions

well thats because i expect more from him

than everyone else….....like i would my own son, he’s supposed to be the savior and cure all agains those evil men from boston…..atleast thats what i was lead to believe.

http://www.diehard101.com/phpfox/upload/norcaliangelsbillsfan

by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 12, 2008 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions

"Expecting more"

Than someone has given in the past or is capable giving is setting you and them up for failure. Calling them names does not help. This is especially true of children.

If someone told you that Torii would single-handedly lead us to the promised land, which I doubt, since I didn’t see anyone saying that, then that is not Torii’s fault. Torii is capable of what he is capable of. Instead, blame either whoever told you that, or yourself for not doing the research.

The keys to defeating the evil men from Boston, by the way, is A) health and B) luck, same as it’s ever been.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jul 12, 2008 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions

well for all this back and forth.......

Its kept me entertained at work…....and def been enlightening…..however it probably doesnt change my mind (im stubborn as I assume you are as well) but atleast you’ve given me a new angle to consider…..

http://www.diehard101.com/phpfox/upload/norcaliangelsbillsfan

by norcaliangelsfan on Jul 12, 2008 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions