Who's the bigger surprise?

by ktrain203 on Jul 15, 2008 9:44 AM PDT Comment 27 comments

So halfway through the baseball season (not really but for some reason the All-Star game never falls on the exact halfway point) who's the biggest surprise on the Angels pitching staff? Is it Joe Saunders with his team leading 3.07 ERA (not counting Lackey who only has 11 starts) and the second most wins in the majors at 12-5? Or is it Ervin Santana, whose stats of 11-3 and a 3.34 ERA are impressive enough but become even more so when put next to last years numbers when he lost twice as many games as he won at 7-14, had an ERA over 5 and struggled to last through the early innings of many of this games? What about John Lackey, who's come back from the disabled list to be the best pitcher in the majors heading into the All-Star break and has time and time again come up with the big performance when the Angels needed it the most?

It's a nice discussion to have, especially when your trying to get your mind off the team's inability to put the bat on the ball. And just think, we aren't even considering Jered Weaver who has a no-hitter this season or Jon Garland who's been a solid starter all season long. But right now, if we were in the World Series and it was Game 1, who would you start? Who would pitch in Game 2? And who would not start and instead move to the bullpen?

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

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Lackey first. Then it depends on the matchup and where it is.

It depends on how many righties and lefties are in the lineup, who is better at the moment, and who has more rest. But i probably would prefer Ervin starting game 2.

I AM THOR, GOD OF THUNDER. BOW TO MY WILL AND MY HAMMER!

by anaheim angels on Jul 15, 2008 11:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Lackey gets game 1 no question

The rest is if the season ended today:

2. Saunders (Just because he is a lefty)
3.Santana.
4. Weaver if it is a pitchers park in the NL and we have homefield advantage. Garland if it is Wrigley-esque

Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.

Kobe tell me how my ass tastes

by hauldog on Jul 15, 2008 12:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Santana is the bigger surprise for me

I though he was done, at least with the Angels. Maybe he could resurrect his career somewhere else, but no way did I think he’d be anything close to what he’s been this year.

by leftwing on Jul 15, 2008 10:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Santana is the surprise, however pleasant it is...

Saunders just continues the roll he has been ever since he came up…ok, so he is overachieving slightly, but….

Playoff rotation
Lackey
Saunders
Santana
Weaver

This is BAD Vlad and his band of wimps! (can't change it now, cuz the last time I did...he started sucking again!)

by K3YEROUT on Jul 16, 2008 12:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i dunno

with the way Weaver’s pitched most of the year, I’d go with Garland.
Jon’s been more solid, and he’s got a great postseason track record. it’s hard to ignore the experience

Mike Scioscia: He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by howiestheman on Jul 16, 2008 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I suspect it depends on who has pitched better recently when the time comes...

Judy’s stats thus far are virtually identical to the numbers he has put up the last 2 years…good #3, 4, or 5 starter numbers.

WTY’s been hot/cold, but overall his numbers are better than Judy’s…era and especially whip are better.

WTY starts game 4 with a short leash to Judy.

This is BAD Vlad and his band of wimps! (can't change it now, cuz the last time I did...he started sucking again!)

by K3YEROUT on Jul 16, 2008 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

personally, i rather have the solid guy

then the guy who goes through hot/cold spells.
it’s hard to take a chance with that in October

Mike Scioscia: He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by howiestheman on Jul 16, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting comparisons actually...

link.

Go thru all 3 screens. Standouts to me were SB allowed and CS…amazing! 1 SB and 2 CS on Judy! WTY’s whip, OBA, K/9 etc are all much better than Judy’s.

One thing that ALWAYS sticks out in my mind that supports your stance…WTY always finds a way to F*&k up with the glove or throwing error! Drives me nuts! Can’t hold a runner and can’t field his position!

Great discussion, but I believe in the long run it will come down to opponent, ballpark, and who has the “Mo”

This is BAD Vlad and his band of wimps! (can't change it now, cuz the last time I did...he started sucking again!)

by K3YEROUT on Jul 16, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i can't believe those SB numbers!

but you’ve also got to factor in how much stock Scioscia places in track records. How else do you explain GA hitting 3rd, 4th and 5th?
I am fairly certain that one of the reason we have Garland is because he is good in the postseason… actually, i don’t doubt that at all. I’d rather have Weaver coming out as a long reliever or spot starter.

Garland’s got solid stuff.

Mike Scioscia: He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by howiestheman on Jul 16, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

any way you shake it…it is a “good” problem to have! Any other team is sucking air when it comes to 4 and 5 starters! :) Frankly I will take either one…can’t go too far wrong!

I suspect there is a whole thread that could be started to go with that SB/CS against stats…

This is BAD Vlad and his band of wimps! (can't change it now, cuz the last time I did...he started sucking again!)

by K3YEROUT on Jul 16, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're absolutely right

this is an argument that any of the other 29 teams would love to have.
and you’re also right that you can’t go wrong with either.

a lot of it might also depend on how they both end the season. I guess we’ll see when we get there.

Mike Scioscia: He provides to unlike method of your team member.

by howiestheman on Jul 16, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Part of this is easy, part of this depends

First of all, the biggest surprise is Ervin Santana. The guy went from being demoted to AAA, to being on the All-star team this year. He has regained his mojo and looks great.

To answer your other question, the first part is easy. John Lackey easily starts Game 1, there is NO DOUBT on this one. Game 2 (this part depends) I think you have to look at match-ups. If a left makes sense it’s Saunders, if a righty makes sense it’s Santana.

Light up the Freakin Halo!

by marshgr on Jul 16, 2008 3:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Biggest surprise

Definitely Joe. Although Santana has been eratic, he had the potential to do what he is doing. No one thought Joe would be leading the league in wins at the allstar break.

C’mon. No one gave Joe better than a #5 pitcher before the season (well, at least not too many).

Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.

by vladtheimpaler on Jul 16, 2008 4:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If we're playing Boston again

DO NOT play Lackey first. Seems like he doesn’t play Boston well, especially in the postseason. I’d play Lackey 3rd if it’s against Boston. I’d start Saunders and Garland in either order as #1 and #2. They’re both cool as cucumbers. Lackey usually is, but those chowdas seem to get into his head somehow.

I swear, if one more person tells me to "work smarter, not harder"...

by Rally Manatee on Jul 16, 2008 10:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Angels can get home-field...

game 1 would be in Anaheim with #3 in Bostown.

by Downing Rules on Jul 16, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah then

Maybe Lackey would be okay.

I swear, if one more person tells me to "work smarter, not harder"...

by Rally Manatee on Jul 16, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we play Boston I put Santana on the mound.

Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.

Kobe tell me how my ass tastes

by hauldog on Jul 16, 2008 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm still a little afraid

the other Santana might reappear, you know the one that looks like he wants to pull the sheets over his head and make all the scary monsters go away. Like Ramon Ortiz always looked in pressure situations.

I swear, if one more person tells me to "work smarter, not harder"...

by Rally Manatee on Jul 16, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have not seen him have a bad performance in the postseason yet

Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.

Kobe tell me how my ass tastes

by hauldog on Jul 16, 2008 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

2005 stats

2005 post season numbers look pretty awful. 2007, he pitched 2 innings of shut out ball, not really enough work to call it good.

I swear, if one more person tells me to "work smarter, not harder"...

by Rally Manatee on Jul 16, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You missed this game, then...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ANA/ANA200510150.shtml

First inning, BB, HBP, 3-run jack.
Then he settles down, gives up an unearned run, an HR to AJ, then Shields allows an inherited runner.

Although, I think you were referring to stepping in for Bartolo in Game 5; but, Santana was merely “serviceable” not spectacular in that outing. He did well under the circumstances, for sure.

by Downing Rules on Jul 16, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't call that a good performance

The link isn’t working for me.

Anyway. Divisional series: 3 earned runs in 5.1 innings. Championship series: 5 earned runs in 4.1 innings. As for Shileds, we all know you can’t blame a reliever for allowing an inherited runner to score, even though it sucks. Garland, however, in the championship series, gave up 2 earned runs (on 4 hits) in 9 innings. Now that’s a good performance. Call me picky.

I swear, if one more person tells me to "work smarter, not harder"...

by Rally Manatee on Jul 16, 2008 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A rookie against the best offense in baseball that year.

Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.

Kobe tell me how my ass tastes

by hauldog on Jul 17, 2008 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even so

A good performance is a good performance. We’ve seen plenty of rookies pitch much better than that against us this year, albeit in less pressure, regular season games. I thought the general standard for a quality performance was 3 runs or less in 6 innings or more. So, 3 in 5.1 is close, but no cigar. 5 in 4.1 innings is just plain bad.

You’re not changing my mind here, I’m going with Garland in a higher pressure game. He, Lackey, and Saunders have more level heads than Santana and Weaver. But, having said that, I’m pretty confident that Santana will be awesome in the post season. He hasn’t shown any signs of faltering yet.

On another note, do you ever worry that us Halo fans are getting too cocky? I mean, we’re talking about post season rotations in July. Maybe we should cool it for a month or so, and focus on the present (Sosh style). I don’t want the baseball gods to strike with any more pink eye epidemics or anything.

I swear, if one more person tells me to "work smarter, not harder"...

by Rally Manatee on Jul 17, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My Dad used to joke that Autry was moving the team to the Philppines...

to be renamed the Manila Folders…due to 2nd half collapses.

Yeah, we shouldn’t be talking post-season yet.

“Playoffs, you’re talking playoffs?”

by Downing Rules on Jul 17, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i almost fell out of my seat laughing at that

i pledge alliegance... to mike Scioscia
and the angels way of baseball
and to each pennant and ring we are sure to win.
one fanatic, under the halo, unwavered
with in n out and world series rings for all

by halofan4life on Jul 18, 2008 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Biggest surprise to Junkyard Joe

I’m still pushing for that nickname to catch on, such a nice ring to it.

Saunders is the one who is playing ABOVE expectation. Santana had been touted as a potential top pitcher. He was pitching below expectation last season, but I’m not that surprised he turned it around. That’s what good pitchers do.

I swear, if one more person tells me to "work smarter, not harder"...

by Rally Manatee on Jul 16, 2008 11:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs