Re-Sign Juan Rivera Now!
So, the signing of Gary Matthews Jr. was panned throughout the Halosphere when it went down. I talked about it here. Rob at 6-4-2 talked about it here. Rev Halofan talked about it here.
There were lots of reasons to hate that signing - from the length of the contract to the crazy cash, to the fact that Matthews Jr. pretty much sucks at baseball. But I also thought that this ill-advised deal spelled the doom of Juan Rivera in Angel Red. Sure, he wasn't going to play much in 2007 after breaking his leg in winter ball between his breakout 2006 season and spring training 2007, but when he DID recover, he had nowhere to play.

Rivera, if you recall, crushed the ball in the 2nd half of 2006 to the tune of .335/.381/.538. That is Teixeira territory folks. That was flat out sick. He cemented his place in the Halos plans that season. Unfortunately, he broke his leg and needed 9 months to recover. he returned in 2007 to post very modest numbers in limited action.
After the signing of Torii Hunter in the 2007 offseason, there was REALLY nowhere to put Johnny Rivers. During the first half of 2008 Matthews Jr. was given every opportunity to play himself out of a career-long funk, to no avail. So, finally, mercifully, in late June, Mike Scioscia started playing Juan Rivera instead of Matthews and his $50 million contract. The first game was here - a 1-0 win over the Dodgers where Juan collected 2 of the teams 6 hits. And he has continued to hit. And hit.
Rivera has played in 20 of the 25 team games in July and started 15 of the last 17. In July, Rivera has hit .316 with an OBP of .379 and a SLG of .596. He his 5 HR's and knocked in 13 runs while drawing 7 walks. He isn't a walk drawing machine, but he will never be confused with Garret Anderson or Howie Kendrick either. He can work the count and lay off pitches when needed.
Rivera posted an OPS of .975 in July. Is he as good defensively as Matthews Jr. in LF/RF? No way, but Matthews Jr. isn't .300 points of OPS better with the glove. Not even close.
So, this brings me to my initial point: should the Halos resign Rivera to play the OF in 2009 and beyond. My answer is an emphatic "Yes". I said - back in December of 2007 - that the Halos should re-up Rivera then to a low-risk high-reward contract of 2 or 3 years at $5 to $7 million per year. That seemed high to a lot of folks at the time, but José Guillen signed a 3 year $36 million deal with Kansas City last offseason and Guillen is a pretty good comp for Rivera. Rivera was NEVER given a good shot to start in the majors before 2006 and he crushed that year. Then, broke his leg and lost a year to surgery and recovery.
Anyway, this post is far too long for the simplicity of the answer. I would sign Juan Rivera right now for 3 years at $8 to $10 million per year. He could anchor LF or RF (depending on the result w/ Vlad) and give the team .360/.500 production. For a team with as little pop as the Halos this needs to happen to solidify the Vlad protection past 2008. Remember, Teixeira will probably fly the coop this offseason.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan and may or may not be a reflection of human evolution, divine enlightenment or nine cans into a 12-pack.
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Rob's a good comentator
and he is often right.
by Rev Halofan on
Jul 31, 2008 11:54 PM PDT
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Because I linked to his post re: the Matthews signing?
Seriously? Why not discuss the merits of the discussion I put forth in my post?
Just because Rob has different opinions than a majority of folks on here doesn’t make his views less valid. Geesh people – differing opinions usually make you re-think and re-embrace your own beliefs. In fact, arguing and debating with folks of differing minds should make your positions stronger if you’ve thought them through and analyzed WHY you believe what you believe.
This is not intended at you Reggie – but in my experience those that avoid differing opinions are usually afraid of their beliefs – or unable to defend them well because they have been intellectually lazy when coming to them.
Dust off that organ between your ears and think a little bit folks.
Tell me what you do or don’t like about re-signing Rivera – then we’ll have something to talk about.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on
Jul 31, 2008 11:54 PM PDT
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Well now
Isn’t that special?
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on
Aug 1, 2008 8:25 AM PDT
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Actually
I should ask—what specifically did you object to about my argument that it’s a bad idea to give a player a 5-year/$50M contract following a huge outlier year in a home park that dramatically favors hitters?
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on
Aug 1, 2008 9:09 AM PDT
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4 years at 4 mil
i pledge alliegance... to mike Scioscia
and the angels way of baseball
and to each pennant and ring we are sure to win.
one fanatic, under the halo, unwavered
with in n out and world series rings for all
by halofan4life on
Aug 1, 2008 8:21 AM PDT
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Three years at no less than $8M
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on
Aug 1, 2008 9:10 AM PDT
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That's what I think it will cost, too..
Again, if José Guillen can sign for $12 million – Rivera is worth at least $8 million.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on
Aug 1, 2008 9:27 AM PDT
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The only caveat I have
is that the current economy may cause the owners to pause a bit about making big deals. The Angels have been quietly having to do deals for certain seats—there was a big sale on suites earlier in the year in April, IIRC, and they sent us a flyer about their Angels Baseball Foundation (IIRC) whereby the Angels donate tickets they can’t sell to the Foundation, which then sells them as a 501© so you can write this off on two ends. Kind of slick, but it also implies the existence of blocks of unsold seats.
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on
Aug 1, 2008 9:59 AM PDT
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Who's In Left.......
I think Juan has some leverage in this thing with the fact that the team will need someone to fill in for the absence of GA. If GA is around it will be under a new contract and with less playing time in LF.
Juan is a solid player that looks to be back to the form of 2006. Not so sure I would say he is better on D then the great GMJ. Kidding aside there isn’t really a more logical fit for the team then to resign Juan.
As for the length of the deal I would not go any deeper then the 3 year deal and stay below the $8m you spoke of. Throw in some bonus clause(s) and see what happens.
I think the Angels need to think about signing HK through his FA year as well. The team will have to replace Garland and I am sure they will be a player in the Tex sweepstakes as well. ET runs out so there will be a need for the LHP in the pen as well as the mess that will be the K-Rod contract negotiations. You just hope the team doesn’t lose out on the bidding process because of all the action taking place.
Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee
by Angel Aviator on Aug 1, 2008 12:21 AM PDT 0 recs
one option
Figgins could move to LF and Wood could finally slide into 3B.
by elricsi on
Aug 1, 2008 10:21 AM PDT
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JUANCHOOOOOOOO
We need to keep this kid for a couple years. I say 3+
Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by acuda27 on Aug 1, 2008 12:26 AM PDT 0 recs
Signing him now will be cheaper
Than at the end of the season. I would like to see Juan, Vlad, Hunter, and GA back next year doing the outfield/dh thing.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Aug 1, 2008 12:53 AM PDT 0 recs
Rivera's emergence in the second half was expected by managememt.
True to form, Scioscia gave an ailing player (Rivera’s broken leg) more time than the player would have contended was necessary, to heal…...in this case, three months.
This was a perfect scenario, as it was known beforehand that Rivera’s history suggests that he is a massive second-half player. This also gave GMJr the opportunity to play himself out of a starting job.
However, the biggest surprise, in my opinion, has been the steadfast health of GA. I think that he has totally surprised everyone in the organization. After learning that Figgins was not the answer in CF, they bought GMJr, thinking that he would cover the ground that an aging GA and Vlad could not cover. Then they found out that sans HGH, neither was GMJr the answer in CF, and certainly not at the plate.
We started the season with, and still have, six outfielders on the active roster, primarily because they were preparing for the stints on the DL of GA and VLAD. The two aging (and ageless) wonders have fooled everyone so far.
Two comments:
It’s amazing how the impending loss of a playing position can keep everyone healthy.
Who, after what we witnessed the first half of 2007, would have ever guessed that GA would not have spent any time of the DL as of August 1, 2008?
by wumbug on Aug 1, 2008 5:41 AM PDT 0 recs
Good points, Wumbug...
GA has been healthy this year. I think I thought he was on the DL early in the season because he was invisible in the lineup. Now that he’s hitting, it is harder to talk of keeping him out of the lineup, that’s for sure.
I just hope the front office keeps in mind how fragile and unproductive GA has been the last few years when talk of picking up his option starts in November.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on
Aug 1, 2008 7:22 AM PDT
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I am against picking up the option ... even tho I'm a big GA fan...
they need to meet somewhere in the middle between the option number and the buyout number. It would be more of a value to the team that way.
by Downing Rules on
Aug 1, 2008 8:20 AM PDT
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I love GA too...
Hard not to with a guy that has meant as much to this franchise (although reletively quielty) as he has. And let’s not forget that untill 2004/5, he was a lock for 150 games/year. The truth is however, that there just isn’t room for him anymore. The Yankees had to let go of Bernie Williams because in order to stay successful, it needs to stay young.
Am I alone in thinking that we should cash in on whatever trade value (at the end of the season) there is on Reggie Willits and trade him if for no other reason to see him play every day for a big league team???
Re-signing Juan IS a good idea I think… For 2 years at NO MORE than 8 mill. Man too bad we couldn’t have seen a full year/contract year in 2007!!
by MidwayCityLivestock on
Aug 1, 2008 10:13 AM PDT
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I agree. Resign Rivera NOW.
Hey you! What are horse mackerel!
Hey, the chair are sailing! You believe that I am toad of the month!
(Yes, that is K-Rod's entry music, translated)
by infant on Aug 1, 2008 8:28 AM PDT 0 recs
Definitely resign Juan
he looks ready for everyday service and has power.
by SCHalo on Aug 1, 2008 8:42 AM PDT 0 recs
So, what about this Manny Ramirez fellow?
Your friend,
Tina
by Tina Yothers on Aug 1, 2008 9:20 AM PDT 0 recs
and has attitude problems ... and is a walking 3-ring circus...
by Downing Rules on
Aug 1, 2008 12:23 PM PDT
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We got the better guy
Haven’t had a chance to see what the mainstreamers are saying about it, especially the Whale.
Don't call me Desmond
by highlandhalo on
Aug 1, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
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Looking at the Poll results....
HGH must be a member here also
Keep Rivera….Sign him and lets see what he can really do for a full season
by LV AngelsFan on Aug 1, 2008 9:20 AM PDT 0 recs
Gary or somebody else in Corona del Mar must've supported him ;-)
Hey you! What are horse mackerel!
Hey, the chair are sailing! You believe that I am toad of the month!
(Yes, that is K-Rod's entry music, translated)
by infant on
Aug 1, 2008 9:51 AM PDT
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i say we give rivera
3 years, $18-20 million
Mike Scioscia: He provides to unlike method of your team member.
by howiestheman on Aug 1, 2008 9:41 AM PDT 0 recs
Juan would be stupid to sign now.
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
Kobe tell me how my ass tastes
by hauldog on Aug 1, 2008 9:52 AM PDT 0 recs
Why?
He’s only 30. If we get him for three years, 31-33, he’s still in “prime” territory.
~Till the Halo burns out...
by Zu Long on
Aug 1, 2008 11:02 AM PDT
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I think he means that from Juan's perspective, It'd be stupid to resign now
Better wait until the season is complete and he can “threaten” to become an FA.
Hey you! What are horse mackerel!
Hey, the chair are sailing! You believe that I am toad of the month!
(Yes, that is K-Rod's entry music, translated)
by infant on
Aug 1, 2008 11:11 AM PDT
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ding ding ding
Regardless, if I am Juan I want promises and guarantees regarding my playing time.
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
Kobe tell me how my ass tastes
by hauldog on
Aug 1, 2008 11:24 AM PDT
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I suppose you could ask for that
but I’ve never heard of such a thing.
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on
Aug 1, 2008 11:30 AM PDT
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I am sure it is discussed
People want to know their roles.
I was not refering to anything written in the contract.
Seattle I would like to thank you for sucking. It allows me to get back to my roots: Hating Fremont.
Kobe tell me how my ass tastes
by hauldog on
Aug 1, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
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Jose Guillen
was promised a starting role when he came to us.
I swear, if one more person tells me to "work smarter, not harder"...
by Rally Manatee on
Aug 1, 2008 1:07 PM PDT
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Yes they can and should promise him a starting role in '09
I swear, if one more person tells me to "work smarter, not harder"...
by Rally Manatee on
Aug 1, 2008 1:08 PM PDT
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No kidding...
if Juan can duplicate his 2006 season (or even 15% worse!) he is possibly better than Vlad in decline…
Yeah, he is playing that well and Vlad is playing that poorly…
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on
Aug 1, 2008 1:14 PM PDT
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in response to vlad
the only thing that is declining him so quickly is simply, playing in the field. all those years in montreal on that turf have hurt his knees beyond repair, and it shows in games that he has DH’d this year. if you were to put vlad in the DH slot every game, his offensive numbers would surely climb.
i pledge alliegance... to mike Scioscia
and the angels way of baseball
and to each pennant and ring we are sure to win.
one fanatic, under the halo, unwavered
with in n out and world series rings for all
by halofan4life on
Aug 1, 2008 2:21 PM PDT
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I don't know...
that you can say that so definitively. It surely couldn’t hurt, but that isn’t the only thing slowing him offensively. Basically, because a big part of his game is swinging at – and crushing – pitches out of the zone, any drop in bat speed could be really damaging to his numbers. He isn’t waiting to square up the “perfect” pitch. He is not crushing the borderline pitches he used to…
That is my observational take…
I thought that maybe his LD% (line drive ) might be dropping – which would show a diminished ability to drive the ball – but it is up a bit from last year (17.7). So, maybe this is flukey – we’ll have to see.
Either way, I think 2009 is important with regards to Vlad in a Halo uniform. If he continues to decline like this, he can’t be retained beyond 2009. If he rebounds a bit – then it is a different story.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on
Aug 1, 2008 2:47 PM PDT
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if i were sosh
i’d DH him next year with very minimal field play so that other outfielders can rest. somone posted it about a month ago the difference in his stats from when he plays in the field to when he DH’s, and the difference was more than noticable.
so, i’d DH him next year, if he continues to decline, then thanks for the years vladdy, but we let him walk and replce him.
i pledge alliegance... to mike Scioscia
and the angels way of baseball
and to each pennant and ring we are sure to win.
one fanatic, under the halo, unwavered
with in n out and world series rings for all
by halofan4life on
Aug 1, 2008 3:15 PM PDT
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agreed
Now that he is playing full time, why on earth would he settle for the type of contract his last year and half would command?
If he continues to hit like he has in July for the remainder of the season, his price goes up double. Throw in some playoff success, and it goes up even more. Plus, I wouldn’t be surprised if he would try to go to a team with a less-crowded outfield.
Anyway, I’m not so sure how feasible contract negotiations are during this time of year.
I’d love to keep Juancho, but I think it will be harder than you think.
that ball is outta here....
by pgh_angelsfan on
Aug 1, 2008 11:41 AM PDT
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I'd at least like to hear that we attempted something.
If Juan says no or makes a counter offer then you have to make a choice, but at the very least you make the offer first.
~Till the Halo burns out...
by Zu Long on
Aug 1, 2008 12:28 PM PDT
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right....
That is part of why I was advocating that in December. I think he was a lock to come back and hit at a high level. I don’t know if he’ll replicate 2nd half 2006 again or not, but he just needs to put up .345/.485 to be worthwhile to me.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on
Aug 1, 2008 12:06 PM PDT
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It couldn't possibly be stupid to resign with the Angels
Almost every player in baseball would probably love to sign with the Angels right now. We musn’t forget that most players want to be on a contending team more than anything. To many players (such as Vlad, but apparently not Frankie) it is more important to win than to earn top dollar. And we’ve had a history of players who opt to resign during the season just because they want to remain an Angel and not worry about free agency. The Angels boast both being a contending team, as well as a team that can pay top dollar. Juan would be smart to resign now, if the Angels offer him a legitimate contract for his contributions.
I swear, if one more person tells me to "work smarter, not harder"...
by Rally Manatee on
Aug 1, 2008 1:15 PM PDT
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i think whats important
is that they wanna play, im sure that Juancho wants to win but i think that more than that he wants to play
i pledge alliegance... to mike Scioscia
and the angels way of baseball
and to each pennant and ring we are sure to win.
one fanatic, under the halo, unwavered
with in n out and world series rings for all
by halofan4life on
Aug 1, 2008 2:30 PM PDT
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We should try to trade Gary. If no one wants him put him on waivers.
by vlad IS my man on Aug 1, 2008 10:43 AM PDT 0 recs
There's a lot of whingeing going on about how Rivera is a downgrade on defence
BS. The guy can flat-ass hit and on defence his arm is plus-plus territory. We’ve got one great arm in RF (if Vlad can get to the ball) and an average one in center (and Torii gets to a lot). A LF with a hose really helps, especially when he hits the long ball.
It’s looking more and more likely that GMJ is going to be traded in the offseason for a bag of balls and Arte is just going to have to swallow the loss of that money. Smack Stoneman.
Don't call me Desmond
by highlandhalo on Aug 1, 2008 11:51 AM PDT 0 recs
Every at bat Matthews gets
is another nail in his coffin. Gawd awful.
I swear, if one more person tells me to "work smarter, not harder"...
by Rally Manatee on
Aug 1, 2008 1:16 PM PDT
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I don't think there is any way...
to trade Matthews. I think his destiny is a release. Even if we pick up his salary, another team has to burn a spot on the 25-man roster on him. Unless he can out-produce other folks #4 or #5 outfielders – that isn’t likely. Plus, he wants to play – he thinks he deserves to play. He is taking this well now, but he is going to get pissy before long. If he enters 2009 as a reserve he is gonna be chapped.
No one wants him – Arte has to suck it up and swallow $30 million. It is the right thing to do and a fair penalty for signing off on picking up this pile of excrement of a baseball player.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on
Aug 1, 2008 1:21 PM PDT
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hopefully
if they bench him long enuf, he waives his NTC and demands a trade
i pledge alliegance... to mike Scioscia
and the angels way of baseball
and to each pennant and ring we are sure to win.
one fanatic, under the halo, unwavered
with in n out and world series rings for all
by halofan4life on
Aug 1, 2008 2:33 PM PDT
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But who takes him?
Who could use him? Seriously, there are very few teams that would want him for anything. He is done.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on
Aug 1, 2008 2:48 PM PDT
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The Giants?
Weren’t they team #2 in the bidding war?
by Downing Rules on
Aug 1, 2008 3:00 PM PDT
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Well...
That’s a possibility. They signed Rowand to a big contract last year, though.
I just don’t see too many teams that would want to waste a roster spot on him if he is going to put up .310/.340 numbers…
Maybe I’m wrong. The Giants really suck and Sabian is a dolt of a GM, so that might work.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on
Aug 1, 2008 3:05 PM PDT
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there's always a team out there who is looking for "proven talent"
i kno the only thing that he has proved is that when he is on that HGH he can put slightly above average numbers, but he is still a plus defender with some speed.
if a team needs that kinda veteran presence and the angels are willing to eat up some of the contract money, then there has to be someone who takes him. if not, then we leave him on the bench and at worst DFA him, or save him in case of some freak injury and he fills in.
because as much as we hate his guts, w/o him last year, because of juan’s broken leg, this team would haveen in a tight spot in the outfield.
i pledge alliegance... to mike Scioscia
and the angels way of baseball
and to each pennant and ring we are sure to win.
one fanatic, under the halo, unwavered
with in n out and world series rings for all
by halofan4life on
Aug 1, 2008 3:19 PM PDT
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big D
That’s what GMJ is for. Let Rivera crush a HR to put the Angels ahead, then when Juan gets on base from the 6th to 8th inning, you put in GMJ to run for him and finish the game on D.
by elricsi on
Aug 1, 2008 4:14 PM PDT
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gmj
the answer to the gary question is there has to be a team out there that needs a legitimate centerfielder and doesnt need alot of offense. The Orioles used to win with Paul Blair. Also Mathews has had good at bats lately. The answer, honestly, is that if Rivera has a good year you may have to let him go and play Matthews. The team will survive. Remember, while Gary was in the tank nobody else was hitting either. Also remember that this team is about pitching first and with that you always want excellent defense. So you dont pay Rivera a busload of money to stick around unless you find Gary a home. Also remember Rivera has never done it a whole year. Alot of players have tremendous halves and then get back to reality when other teams learn how to pitch to them. So right now he is just potential, and he could end up being a .230 hitter as well. Nobody really knows.
by godzilla29 on Aug 1, 2008 9:39 PM PDT 0 recs
Well, I guess we're coming close to beating this one to death.
by wumbug on Aug 2, 2008 3:11 AM PDT 0 recs
Not nearly as much as the "Manny signed with the Dodgers" barrage that occurred...
I heard Raul Mondesi is coming back, too…....
by Downing Rules on
Aug 2, 2008 4:09 AM PDT
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