Off The Radar Trade Thoughts
I usually hate reading about goofy, fantasy-type baseball trades, but I took a look around at some players who might be available and no one is talking about. I admit, I don't know much about what it takes to make a trade at the major league level, but below are some deals using my limited knowledge. Let me know what you think...
My thoughts on the state of the Angels' roster are the Angels' batting order is predominately right-handed. Although they do have 7 switch-hitters on their major league roster, they have no left-handed hitters. So if I were the Angels GM I'd be looking to acquire a left-handed or switch-hitting corner OF or corner infielder, and/or a #5 starter. Here are the players I'd be kicking the tires on...in no particular order:
Orioles
Aubrey Huff ($8M - 2009) - In 2008, Huff had his best season since 2003 when he hit 32 HR and batted .304 primarily being used as the Orioles DH. Huff is 32-years old and in the walk year of his contract which calls for a reasonable salary of $8M. An average defender at third and first base, Huff also is capable of playing RF, but is below average in the outfield. Proposed deal: Dustin Moseley for Aubrey Huff and cash.
| Projected | Age | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | BB | SO | AVG | OBP | SLG |
| Huff | 33 | 533 | 72 | 151 | 33 | 2 | 23 | 83 | 3 | 48 | 81 | .283 | .343 | .482 |
Cubs
Rich Harden ($7M - 2009) - The Cubs have been rumored to covet Chone Figgins. Why not deal Figgins, who is also in his walk year, for the oft-injured Harden? Harden could fill the #5 rotation spot vacated by the departure of Jon Garland, while trading Figgins would open up third base for Brandon Wood. Proposed deal: Chone Figgins for Rich Harden.
| Projected | Age | W | L | IP | H | ER | SO | BB | ERA |
| Harden | 28 | 8 | 4 | 134 | 102 | 43 | 146 | 56 | 2.99 |
Astros
Lance Berkman ($29M - 2010 NTC) - Berkman would be my primary trade target as he'd fill the hole left by Mark Teixeira. Although Berkman is 4 years older than Teixeira, he hits for more power (career slugging pct of .560 vs .541), gets on base more often (OBP .413 vs .378), and he can steal a base (18 last season). Plus, Berkman is a very good fielding first baseman. It's unclear if the Astros are in a rebuilding mode or if they think they can compete in 2009. Last season they made a deadline deal for Randy Wolf while they were 12 games behind (and tied for last in the NL Central), so it's hard to figure out what they're doing. If the Astros would deal Berkman, and he'd be willing to waive his no trade clause, I'd propose: Brandon Wood, Jeff Mathis and Nick Adenhart for Lance Berkman.
| Projected | Age | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | BB | SO | AVG | OBP | SLG |
| Berkman | 33 | 579 | 104 | 171 | 39 | 2 | 33 | 113 | 11 | 109 | 119 | .295 | .407 | .541 |
Yankees
Johnny Damon ($13M - 2009) - The pluses for Damon are he bats left-handed, he has the ability got on base (OBP .375 in 2008), can lead-off in the event Figgins is dealt, can play a slightly above average leftfield, and is in his walk year. If the Angels don't re-sign him after 2009, which they probably wouldn't, there's the opportunity of gaining 2 draft picks when he signs elsewhere. The negative thing about Damon is his age as he turned 35 last month. Proposed deal: Justin Speier for Johnny Damon.
| Projected | Age | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | BB | SO | AVG | OBP | SLG |
| Damon | 36 | 556 | 96 | 156 | 29 | 3 | 14 | 65 | 22 | 62 | 82 | .281 | .353 | .419 |
Nick Swisher ($21M - 2011) - To me, Nick Swisher is "Adam Dunn-lite". You can expect Swisher to hit about half as many HR as Dunn, get on base around the same rate, and have almost the same batting average. Swisher is a switch-hitter who can adequately play all 3 outfield positions and first base. Proposed deal: Two mid-grade prospects for Nick Swisher.
| Projected | Age | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | BB | SO | AVG | OBP | SLG |
| Swisher | 29 | 463 | 78 | 111 | 27 | 1 | 23 | 71 | 2 | 80 | 122 | .240 | .352 | .451 |
Rockies
Todd Helton ($52.3M - 2011 NTC) - I'm going out on a limb with this one, as Helton had season ending back surgery during 2008 and prior to that, his season wasn't anything to be too thrilled with. Although Helton's days of hitting 30+ home runs are gone, he does get on base at a good rate and plays an above average defensive first base (pre-surgery). However, Helton will turn 36 during the 2009 season, will earn an average of over $17M the next 3 years and has a full no trade clause. Proposed deal: Gary Matthew Jr. (if he'd waive his no trade clause) for Todd Helton; or Justin Speier for Todd Helton and cash.
| Projected | Age | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | BB | SO | AVG | OBP | SLG |
| Helton | 36 | 476 | 79 | 145 | 36 | 1 | 17 | 74 | 2 | 93 | 73 | .305 | .418 | .492 |
Pirates
Adam LaRoche (Arbitration Eligible) - Left-handed hitting LaRoche is an above average defender at first base with a career OPS+ of 114. LaRoche made $5M last season and will probably see an increase for 2009 after arbitration causing the salary-cutting Pirates to look to deal. The Pirate minor league system ranks near the bottom and they may be willing to take a couple mid-level prospects in exchange for LaRoche. Proposed deal: Tyler Chatwood and Jose Perez for Adam LaRoche.
| Projected | Age | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | BB | SO | AVG | OBP | SLG |
| LaRoche | 30 | 551 | 76 | 149 | 40 | 1 | 26 | 91 | 1 | 60 | 135 | .270 | .342 | .488 |
Cardinals
Rick Ankiel (Arbitration Eligible) - Ankiel, who is his walk year entering 2009, can play all three outfield positions, although he doesn't play them very well. His 2008 season was hampered by to what was believed to be an abdominal strain, but was diagnosed as a sports hernia ending his season in early September. The Cardinals were rumored to be willing to deal Ankiel for some pitching from the Braves or Yankees earlier this off-season. Proposed deal: Dustin Moseley for Rick Ankiel.
| Projected | Age | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | BB | SO | AVG | OBP | SLG |
| Ankiel | 30 | 502 | 77 | 132 | 24 | 2 | 31 | 96 | 3 | 43 | 110 | .263 | .321 | .504 |
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Out of all of that
the only guy I would want is Berkman because he is a machine. Harden still has a track record of being injury prone and we have enough of those guys. Aubrey Huff just does not excite me that much, and the orioles would not give him up for just moseley. Johnny Damon is another outfielder we dont need and he is on the down side. Swisher could work, but i would need to see a rebound year after last year. And Ankiel well his agent his Scott Boooorass so that a for sure no. But good post it was fun to read.
Give the young guns a chance...if they suck wellll...
Berkman
would be highly unlikely to happen.
i wouldn’t mind Swisher… if he comes cheaply. he could fit into the giant OF/DH/1B rotation we have.
i actually like Huff too, even though most people here don’t.
other than that… no thanks.
Kotch would've had that.
i like huff
not a sexy name, but he would quietly contribute big time. His numbers last year in baltimore were insane!
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 1, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
chatwood + perez for LaRoche?
good thing you aren’t our GM. Those are two very prime, albeit still very young, prospects with live arms.
keep the arms in house…trade our surplus MIs we have throughout every level of the minors..
Go Angels!
I tried looking for matches for MI, but couldn't really find one.
I agree with you about that being a surplus that should be dealt from.
What’s LaRoche’s value?
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
This is around his value
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2734082
when he was traded two years ago.
One proven MLB arm, and probably a prospect.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Good find.
But that was two years ago when LaRoche would be under team control for 2 more years (plus he was 2 years younger). I think there’s a pretty big difference between then and now as far as LaRoche’s value.
I could be wrong.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
The main problem
I don’t even want some of those guys…especially Nick Swisher but just because I can’t stand him…but the biggest problem with those proposed trades is that they are not NEARLY enough. Who would take Dustin Moseley for Aubrey Huff or Rick Ankiel??
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
I know what you're saying, but...
Who would take Casey Kotchman for Mark Teixeira? In the right scenerio, such as walk years, player’s trade values change.
I admitted I don’t know a whole lot about trade value, except from other deals, but how is Kotchman/Teixeira different than Moseley/Huff? Other than this being January and that deal was July.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
That trade shocked everyone
Kotchman isn’t valued by anyone nearly as much as he is in the Angels organization and fanbase. It was pretty much a 1B-1B trade with a throw in. It was such a rare trade for a prime time player you might not see that again for a decade.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Jan. vs. July
That’s actually a pretty big difference. For one thing, more teams know whether they have a shot at the postseason in July than in January. I also don’t see Moseley as having much trade value…he’s a spot starter. I’m not against making a play for some of those guys (just no more outfielders…please), it just looks like you place too much value on OUR guys and too little on THEIRS.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
I might place more value on Angels' players...
but I doubt it. I think Moseley’s of no use to the Angels, but has more value to a team who has a thin rotation and is looking to cut payroll.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
By "thin rotation"..
…do you mean a team with only 4 starters? Oh wait. That’s us.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
No, I mean a team that has a rotation of
Guthrie, Waters, Albers, Liz, and Olson. A team whose starters have combined career numbers of:
43-59 in 916.33 IP and an ERA of 5.10 That’s what I call thin.
Why would you think a rotation of Lackey, Santana, Saunders, Weaver, and Anyone is thin?
I guess some people are hard to please.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
I'm not hard to please
I just don’t think Dustin Moseley would be acceptable in a trade for Aubrey Huff…I don’t care what the O’s pathetic rotation is like.
Now match up that team ERA of 5.10 with Moseley’s career ERA of 5.52…or worse, with last year’s 6.79. Why again would they want him? Why would we?? We need a 5th starter. We’re thin…not in talent…in quantity.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
You're right.
I’m looking at this a little deeper, and Moseley wouldn’t be enought to get Huff.
I think my problem in this is I don’t think players heading into the last year of their contract have as much value because every other team knows a crappy/rebuilding team is not go re-sign the player. No way Huff re-signs with Baltimore after next season, but you’re right…he does have more value than Moseley.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
We can rock four starters
and see how the division plays out.
If our 5 hole is a instant loss its not a huge deal unless the division is close.
The the AL West is as weak as it was last year we can easily coast to the playoffs with 4 good starters, as long as they stay healthy.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
That's one school of thought
Maybe even right. Especially when you factor in the return of Escobar.
It just makes me squirm thinking we might throw Moseley out there every fifth game. Adenhart’s not ready. And you can never have enough pitching. I’m hoping for (at least) one more signing.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
i kinda just wish we would sign ben sheets for 2 years
and if he’s hurt, let adenhart be his logical fill-in. Win/Win, right?
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 1, 2009 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
Not one
of those proposals would come even close to landing the players you mentioned.
Not even on Playstation.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Good thing I don't waste my time on video games.
In your opinion, what would it take to get a player such as Huff?
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
Well his value probably spiked after last year
Huff would probably take Aybar, Jepsen and some decent minor league pitcher for them to really consider it. He more or less carried that team last year
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 1, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
Trading one for one
is so rare, you almost never see it anymore.
Moseley is not considered a top tier prospect, with a high ceiling. If you do center the package around him you would have to throw in a player like Wood to complete the deal.
Im guess Wood, Moseley, A/AA prospect to be named later type trade.
Fair? Probably not, but Peter Angelos is a tool and sucks at everything especially trades. We should all thank him for backing off that Santana for Tejada trade.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
ironically
like 2 years ago i traded shea hillenbrand and figgins for mark teixeira when he was still on texas. I almost declined because i felt so bad for the CPU Ranger fans
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 1, 2009 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
I like the Berkman deal and the Harden deal...
but I think it would take a little more to get Harden, maybe another mid-grade prospect
For Berkman’s salary, did you imply that the total for 09-10 is 29mil?
Berkman is hilarious
I love how he constantly drops and gains weight, sometimes he looks almost completely round.
He is so good, its stupid.
Landing Berkman would take a massive massive trade.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Berkman is baseball's answer to Oprah
Except, y’know, he’s cool.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Sheets is identical to Harden
and would only cost a 2nd round pick. Plus we could give him an option year or two.
Sheets will command a big salary
The Rangers will give him a nice deal and probably throw some performance and award incentives. The All-Star/Cy Young/MVP ones are usual but also some IP/SO/ERA escalators as well.
My guess is his base salary (based especially on this years market and Burnett who is very comparable)
4 Years 62 Million with a 5th year vesting option and award/performance escalators.
Somewhat pricey.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
If I remember correctly
you cannot have award incentives anymore. Just performance. I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure you can’t have CY escalators at least.
Anyways, do you honestly think someone will give him a 4 year deal? If he wasn’t such a health risk, especially after finishing the season hurt, I could see that deal. But I can’t see anyone investing that much until he can prove his health. I just don’t see it happening. He hasn’t been getting much buzz at all.
I think he gets 2 yr with an option with some performance incentives.
Burnett got 5 years
and he is basically the same pitcher.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Yeah but...
The Yanks have the money to risk. No one else has THAT KIND of flexibility.
Sheets
I think your estimate of the deal might be a year longer than he’ll get, you may well turn out to be right—it always takes just one stupid owner, after all.
Sheets made $11M in 2008, so he won’t be looking to take a pay cut. His last deal was 4 years so 3 plus option might get it done. He’ll be 30 on Opening Day, so a 4 year plus option with Sheets’ history of poor arm health might be a little rich for many teams. If he had been a stranger to the DL he’d be getting 5 years in a heartbeat, though, and if he’d stayed healthy he would have gotten the deal Burnett got with the Yankees instead of Burnett.
In any case, the deal Burnett signed with the Yankees wil be used as a baseline for negotiation, just as you said.
by George Kaplan on Jan 2, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
I don't see Berkman moving
Overall, he’s a superior player than Teixeira. He’s been hitting better, longer, and he’s a fine defensive first baseman as well. But he’s been the Astros’ star offensive player for years. When you consider that Teixeira will make $22.5 million a year through age 36, you see how favorable Berkman’s contract—which pays him $14.5 million through age 34 with an affordable option year after that—really is for Houston.
They also probably believe they can compete in their otherwise weak division, and who can blame them? The Pirates and Reds are perennially awful, the Cardinals still don’t have any pitchers, the Brewers just lost theirs, and that leaves only the Cubs, who are only getting older. The Astros have loaded up each of the last two years, and their total salary is still under $100 million. I just don’t see them being in a hurry to unload star players who are signed well below market value.
That doesn’t include Tejada, whom I now consider neither a star player nor signed below market value. I’m glad that Houston got stuck with that mess instead of the Angels.
just some thoughts
i don’t follow the NLC that close so this is just random opinions. i think the Reds are going to be better then Astros only because they have legitimate young talent on that team. Pirates are horrible. Brewers, i see them like the Twins, they will stay competitive yr in yr out if they stick to there budget and keep developing young talent. Cardinals, they have the bats to compete, obviously they need pitching and have had bad luck with their SP over the last 2 yrs. Cubs are the beast of the div. they have the market to buy talent if they can’t produce it from within. obviously they need to solve the ownership situation.
so basically i think the Astros are basically screwed. they seem to have no direction and that i think comes from ownership. so teams like the Astros puzzle me when they decide to stay avg instead of rebuilding. so i feel bad for the vets like Oswalt and Berkman. i didn’t even realize Berkman put up those type of numbers until you guys brought it up. he’s soo under the radar on the national scene. same with Oswalt, he is soo good and hardly anyone thinks of him as a top tier SP. those guys are soo talented and with them signing below market contracts seem to be loyal and want to win. but their stuck with a organization going nowhere fast. i think guys like that deserve better then what ownership and the front office is giving them. how far does loyalty go in sports?
The Astros aren't great
I think you’re spot on about the NL Central. The Cubs are really the only good team, even though they’re showing some holes. They might be just an injury away from struggling. The Reds could be climbing over the next few years, but I think the Brewers will fall. They’ve had a critical mass of young talent reach the majors of the last few years, and Sabathia put them over the top, but they have to be thinking of rebuilding now—you can only bring up a Ryan Braun every so often. The Pirates don’t need to be discussed.
That leaves the Cardinals and the Astros, who have been flirting with mediocrity. The Cardinals could go somewhere if they fixed up their pitching, which I haven’t seen them doing so far. The Astros might be the last man standing next season, competing with whoever loses the NL East for the wild card, if not the division. But they’re still mediocre, and might just as easily finish around .500. They’ve certainly made enough dumb moves recently, trading away Lidge and for Tejada, and giving Carlos Lee a bazillion dollars. But they still think they can compete, and they need Berkman to give their fans at least the impression of competitiveness, even if they play .500 ball all year. He’s had a Hall of Fame career so far, and they know it in Houston, even if no one else does.
It would be like the Angels trading Guerrero, the linchpin of the offense. Could the Angels still compete? Probably. They might even get a lot of talent in return. But who wants to see Torii Hunter try to carry the whole offense next season?
loyalty
how much longer do guys like Oswalt and Berkman stay in houston? fans love the loyalty but it can only go soo far unless those guys are willing to finish up their prime years with a avg team.
Oswalt
As I wrote before, Oswalt offered to renegotiate his contract if it would free up money for management to go after free agents.
He likes playing for Houston. I don’t think he is eager or interested in playing elsewhere.
by George Kaplan on Jan 2, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
Oswalt
i didn’t mean to imply that they aren’t happy living in houston and trying to win a WS with them. it just comes point in your career where it just doesn’t make sense. your only in your prime yrs for soo long before you start going downhill fast. then that team your soo loyal to will cut you off.
It's also not up to them
They signed contracts, they’re obligated to play for the Astros, and could even veto a trade if it was not to their liking. Those guys could bitch and moan and demand a trade, but that would put them in the same category as Manny.
Berkman even grew up in southeast Texas, went to Rice in Houston, and has been in the Astros system since he was drafted in 1997. If the Astros were the worst team in baseball, he still might not want to leave.
Trade
asking the GM for trade is different then acting like Manny. i’m pretty sure their better professionals then Manny is. the GM doesn’t have to grant the request but every player has a right to ask for a trade. if they really want to win and feel like the situation their in is not going to help with that end result WS.
that doesn’t mean they hate Houston or don’t want to live there.
Pass on
Huff, Damon, Swisher, Helton, and Ankiel. Huff had a career year in 2008 but he hadn’t had a year anywhere even close to that since 2003 or 2004. I don’t like buying high on marginal players. As for the other guys I passed on, they just aren’t really that good. There is no need to trade for a mediocre player just so you can say you did something in the off-season. Swisher is okay but I’d rather give Kendry Morales a shot. I like Helton but he has lost a lot of power and is old. Again, it would be better to give Kendry a go. As for Damon and Ankiel, we don’t need any more outfielders.
I would LOVE to have Berkman but remember, the Astros think they can contend. Whether they actually can or not is up for some debate, but they think they can and that’s all that matters. Remember how they went out and got Randy Wolf at the deadline last year when they were 12 games out of 1st place? So yeah, there is no way they are trading Berkman.
As for LaRoche, he is an above average hitter and can hit 20-25 home runs and though he would be an improvement over most of the hitters on our team, I don’t think he is the difference maker the Angels need. HOWEVER, I’d still consider trading for him based on the fact that he most likely can be had for peanuts since the Pirates have a history of giving away their only good players. Last season they traded away Jason Bay, Xavier Nady, and Damaso Marte. Who did they get in return? Brandon Moss? Andy LaRoche? Craig Hansen?
Imagine how different this team would be with a true bat at DH
Bonds
Man Ram
Dunn
Something like that dramatically changes the lineup
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
totally agree
even with Vlad as our full-time DH, we could use Dunn of Manny if LF….
but i agree with this concept, and definitely agree it needs to be addressed
Kotch would've had that.
Helton
Geez, I missed the suggestion for Helton…he is one of the few proposed trades for GMJ that would make me want to keep GMJ.
Helton is owed more than $52M for the next three seasons, and to waive his no-trade clause he might insist the 2012 club option for $23M be vested.
That’s $75M for four years—we might as well sign Manny for that amount of money.
And we aren’t signing Manny.
GMJ, on the other hand, will cost “only” $33M between 2009 and 2011, when the deal ends.
Not enough to scare you off? Then consider the Rockies telling the world last August that Helton’s problem is a degenerative back condition. Helton over the next three years will make the oft-injured GMJ look like Iron Man Lou Gerhig.
The deal Helton signed with Colorado is an object lesson on why deals like the one the Angels proposed to Teixeira are bad risks. Helton was 29 when his $141M deal was signed. Helton had two star seasons 2003 and 2005, then his health began to decline, and with it his power numbers slipped away, even though he was playing half his games in Coors.
If you offer to trade GMJ to the Rockies as a straight swap—though you can’t yet, since his no-trade clause is good for 2009—they’d take it before the sound of your offer stopped echoing off the walls of the room. They’ve regretted that contract for the past three seasons, and there is no way to get away from it without Helton agreeing to a trade and some other team wanting to take him in trade.
Long-term, guaranteed, no-trade contracts like Helton’s—or Teixeira’s—are a very high risk, and we might, in 2012 or 2013, be grateful that the team’s payroll isn’t saddled with that contract.
by George Kaplan on Jan 1, 2009 8:18 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Great Post!
Good to see a post with research and depth.
Huff: I like it a lot, but I don’t think Mosely would get it done.
Harden: Same, again, giving up too little. I’m not a Figgins fan. I’ll take a year of Harden healthy over Chone Figgins. I’m also not sure the Cubs would do it now considering they have Ramirez at 3rd and they’re pursuing Roberts from Baltimore to play 2nd. I’m not sold he’s the left handed bat they’re talking about in the OF. I guess he could play SS for them, afterall, that was his natural position. I think he’s gained too much weight and don’t think he has the range for it anymore. So I guess, where does he fit with them?
Berkman: 3 words, “Sign me up!”.
Damon: Not really interested anymore. A few years ago would have been good, but I think our OF is pretty much set. I think a lot of people are getting right in saying we need a true DH bat. I guess he could play LF and move Rivera to RF and Vlad DH. But I doubt Vlad will be happy with that. But for what you offered, Spier, I’d do that deal.
Swisher: I don’t have a good response for Swish. Everybody has those guys you just don’t like…. I just don’t like him. I’d have a hard time rooting for him.
Helton: Pass on him. He’s still a good guy to have but not for the money he’s getting. Morales will likely produce numbers close to what was projected above in his 1st full year starting at less than 1/10th of the cost.
LaRoche: I like him. I’d pull the trigger on that deal. The low level prospects never scare me. Their prospects, they haven’t proven anything at the ML level. Figgins is now traded for someone, perhaps bullpen help or packaged for another starter.
Ankiel: He’s not bad. I’d rather have Dunn. I’d take Ankiel if that’s all it cost the Angels was Moseley.
Moseley seems to have almost no value in other teams' eyes
In non-Halo circles, he’s considered no better than a swing-man or a 5th starter at his very best, and I don’t necessarily disagree with that. So if we could get Ankiel for him, then yeah.
(Although the Cards do have Colby Rasmus coming up… maybe that will make him a viable option, but probably they’ll ask for more? Figgins + Walden/Green/some other pitching prospect seems pretty fair, as they’re not exactly brimming with potential in the middle of their infield or in their rotation)
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 2, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
I like where your head is at
I like it when people think outside the box, but some of these are pretty ludicrous. You might as well be asking for Peavy in exchange for Gary Matthews Jr. Seriously, though, there is some nice thought put into this, and many of your suggestions are things that would help the team.
The Good: I would love to get someone like Huff or Harden, but I think that Huff would be the only likely deal. Harden is thought by many to have some of the best stuff in the majors (albeit for 5 innings at a time). The Cubs aren’t going to give him up, especially one for one. It will also take more than a spot starter/relief pitcher to get Huff.
The Bad: Johnny Damon and Nick Swisher. Swisher is horrible – he plays several positions at a below average level, and hits in the .240s when he is having a good year. We don’t need someone like that. Johnny Damon can still hit and run the bases, but has the WORST ARM EVER in the outfield. He can get to a lot of balls because of his speed, but seriously, I have seen seven year olds put more on a ball.
The Ugly: Are you seriously suggesting that the Astros would trade Lance Berkman (their most consistent player and face of their franchise) for 2 prospects and a back-up catcher?? Really? I like Jeff Mathis as much, if not more, than anybody, but come on. I would love to see someone like Berkman in Halo’s gear, but you have to have a little bit of perspective.
The rest of the deals are fine what ifs, but I don’t think any of them would make us appreciably better.
If you don't remember when there weren't rocks in center field, you might not be a real Angels fan.
Here's an "off the radar" thought
In fact, to some it might seem like downright heresy:
Why don’t we all sit down, shut up, and get out of the way, so that Wood, Aybar and Morales have the chance to show what they can do as full-time starters?
Each of them has had ABs but either through sharing a position in a platoon or temporarily filling in for an injured player. The team has invested heavily in Wood and Morales, they’ve spent as much time in the minors as will benefit them. It is time that they have the chance to show they have the skills to belong.
So instead of planning on their failure with discussions of Joe Crede, or Garrett Atkins, or Adam Dunn, or Adrian Gonzales…why don’t we swallow hard, sit down, and let these two guys play? They deserve our patience, our respect and our full support. Let’s give them time and opportunity to prove themselves.
After all, I recall a lot of negative comments about a rookie 1B the Angels had given the job to. He arrived with a lot of hype from his time in the minors, but he didn’t impress initially when he played as the starting 1B.
Funny thing is, the comments posted when he was traded to the Braves would have made you though Casey Kotchman was the most popular Angel on the team. He had been given the time to grow into the role and took advantage of that opportunity to prove himself.
Wood, Aybar and Morales deserve the same chance. Why don’t we look forward to seeing them develop on the job, instead of imagining scenarios where we trade away God knows who in order to obtain a player to replace them before they have had their chance?
by George Kaplan on Jan 2, 2009 9:43 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
nicely said
i enjoy discussing trade ideas and thinking of different scenarios, but i would gladly hand everyday jobs over to the kids to see what they’re capable of.
how else do you think guys like Votto, Prince, Braun, Wright and Hanley got so good at such a young age? They were handed jobs and told to go out and play… they weren’t platooned, they weren’t played every 6 days… that’s what we need to do with guys like Morales, Wood and Aybar.
the only thing standing in their way is Scioscia and his LOVE for declining vets
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 2, 2009 10:05 PM PST up reply actions
Except for Tim Salmon
Scioscia dicked him.
Horrible
Especially for a guy like Timmy…. a cornerstone in Angels lore…. just belittled.
I’d still take Bud Black, or Joe Maddon as our manager over the Howards spokesman.
Let's just have Dino Ebel do everything.
Manager, pitching coach, bench coach, hitting coach, bullpen coach, 1st base coach, and 3rd base coach.
by Chzburger Jones on Jan 3, 2009 12:20 AM PST up reply actions
I like the way you think...
Or maybe we could let our catchers call the game.
Salmon
how did Sosh dick Salmon? he was at the end of his career. he was broken down on his last legs. where would you have played him?
He should have DH'd more than he did.
Salmon only played in 76 games that year and hit .265/.361/.450. Compare that to GA hitting .280/.323/.433 in 141 games that year.
Granted he wasn’t healthy enough to play the entire year, but he could have been worked in a bit more that those 76 games. Sosh is the reason Timmy is stuck on 299 career HRs.
And of those 76 games, he pinch-hit 18 times meaning he only really played in 58 games.
By comparison, Sosh opted to play GA at DH 45 times. I need to stop looking up shit like this. I really like Sosh and want to continue liking him, but shit like this makes it pretty hard for me at times.
That’s what she said.
diff
most guys who are handed jobs play on teams that suck and can afford to go with young players everyday. i’m not going to defend sosh when it comes to how he uses the young talent but guys like Wood, Morales, Aybar have always had players ahead of them in the system.
It's about time someone said it...
…we know these players have genuine potential – they’ll never realise it if you stick journeyman 2nd rate FAs in front of them. They have the chance to be excellent – insisting that they aren’t yet creates catch-22 for them.
They must be given their chance while the rest of the division is weak.
I see red people

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