"Angels Have Interest in Dye"
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I do not see how this makes ANY sense in ANY way for the Halos. We let GA go, we are set with Johnny Rivers, and we have GMJ coming back a couple of months into the season, with any number of better qualified, more worthwhile prospects (Terry Evans, anyone?) waiting in AAA.
If we wanted lead legs in the outfield, we could and should have re-signed Garret Anderson. There is absolutely no sense in pursuing Jermaine Dye.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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214 comments
Comments
I didnt vote because Dye for Figgins straight up makes a ton of sense for the Angels
Dye essentially replaces Gary Matthews in the lineup and allows Brandon Wood to play everyday.
Is he the best hitter ever? No. Is he an upgrade that adds a nice presence? Yes.
This might not make sense for people who still think Figgins is good, but for the rest of us it probably makes sense
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 12, 2009 4:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
line up
Aybar or Izturis – SS
Kendrick – 2B
Vlad – DH
Dye – RF
Torii – CF
Rivera – LF
Napoli – C
Morales – 1B
Wood – 3B
thats not a bad lineup in relation to this year’s AL West and its not like we’d be taking on Dye for 8 years. He has like 2 years left or something right? AND it allows Wood and Morales to play everyday to develop
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 12, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what makes you think Vlad is going to DH FT?
because he won’t be happy about that at all
Go Angels!
by Four Ts on Jan 12, 2009 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can flip it around some
LF: Rivera / Dye
CF: Hunter
RF: Dye/Vlad/Rivera
DH: Vlad/Dye/Rivera
Mix and match based on rest needed and health.
by matt92130 on Jan 13, 2009 2:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rivera can't even adequately play left...
and you think he can play right?
Vladdy is about done as an everyday OF’er, he has been between miserable and tolerable the last 3 years.
Removing the GMJ/Willits RF/DH platoon arrangement, and adding Dye, for a .270 hitting INFIELDER with no power is ridiculously helpful.
Besides, there are no more prospects left guys…we either do it this year, or forget about it. Hunter and Vlad are already on their decline phase, K-MO and Wood, show no real signs of being able to replace them….2010 and beyond looks bleak.
by statlr on Jan 13, 2009 7:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh a pessimist....
Juan Rivera career fielding percentage:
LF: .977 in 191 games
RF: .983 in 240 games
Seems to me like he’s more of a right fielder…. call me crazy. Plus the guy has a great arm. Not a great route runner, but he makes the routine plays. Just don’t ask him to go diving like GA…. uh-oh.
Dye adds more pop and still has a very good arm. A posted a .982 fielding percentage and while his assists have gone down each year, he remains a solid RF. The past two years he’s posted a .993 fielding percentage. But, we’ll have to see how Vlad’s surgery treats his knees. If indeed we get Dye, that very may well determine who gets more playing time in the OF. Vlad has a career (sad) .963 fielding percentage. IMO, Rivera get’s the job in left. Hunter, obviously in CF. Dye (If we got him) in right with Vlad DH’ing as often as possible. Play him in RFjust enough to make him happy.
I have faith in Morales and Wood. But I’m not so sure Sean Rod isn’t ready. I like him a lot too. Kid plays the game hard and I love that. Sandoval and Brown could probably play too. Conger is years away but a solid prospect. Trumbo… we’ll see. He’s years away as well but he has the potential. The future of the Angels will be just fine.
by matt92130 on Jan 13, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DYE IS A TERRIBLE FIELDER!
fielding percentage dont mean shit. Hell I could play CF for the angels and have a 1.000 fielding percentage. Dyes range is crap, and he cannot get to any balls. He is WORSE than vlad (by a decent amount) in RF. Aybars FP isnt too great, but he is an amazing fielder because many of his errors come on plays where normal SS wouldnt even be able to reach the ball
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How is he terrible?
Because he knows his limitations and doesn’t try to do too much? Sounds like a smart veteran… get’s to the balls he knows he should and the others, he keeps in front of him. Doesn’t sound terrible.
by matt92130 on Jan 13, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
like honestly really?
The point of a fielder is to get to as many balls as possible and convert them into outs. Having limited range, and being so effin slow that he has to field very catchable balls on the bounce doesnt make him a better fielder, it makes him a worse one. Sure he might take good routes to balls, but unless a fielder dives and misses for a ball, hes gonna keep it in front of him unless its hit into a gap. And the faster you are, the better chance you have of getting to the ball. Dye is slow. He is not a good fielder by any means
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was asking you to quantify your assertion
Back it up with some range data please, i would be interested too.
by Rev Halofan on Jan 13, 2009 7:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i did lower on but ill repost it here
According to most fielding stats (like UZR and RngR), hes the 4th worst RF in the game in between Vlad and Griffey)
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 9:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
fangraphs.com
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=800&type=0&season=2008&month=0
actually 3rd worst
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your point is validated
So the three bats Angel fans are interested in are Jermaine Dye, Manny Ramirez, and Adam Dunn. All solid hitters and poor defenders. Sign/trade for one, and place them in the DH slot. There just isn’t any good fielding outfielders left on the market. We’re stuck. I don’t see how any of three mentioned above are going to be insanely worse than what we already have. Might as well go after the biggest bat and try to compensate.
by matt92130 on Jan 14, 2009 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2008, 2007, 2004
Each year the winner of the World Series had a terrible left fielder. I am sure we could find a way to stash Manny in our outfield.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
by hauldog on Jan 14, 2009 5:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
With Vlads poor fielding and aging knees
it might make more sense to let someone like willits or HGH play in the field more and give Vlad more DH time. It would increase our overall team perhaps more than trotting Vlad out full time and giving someone like Dunn the DH spot
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 14, 2009 6:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's the real reason we aren't making a move for big hitting DH.
The DH spot is largely going to be reserved for Vlad to preserve his health and, therefore, his production at the plate.
by snowhor on Jan 14, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think so too
and i wholeheartedly agree with this. The only OF type player who would make any sense to bring in would be a great fielder that can give Vlad more DH time, and could slide over to LF and let Juan DH as well
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 14, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how about Jim Thome instead of Dye?
Thome’s numbers away from US C are slightly better than at home.
He can DH, thus leaving Vlad to play in the field as he likes to do. He can take 20-30 games off to rest while Vlad gets DH time and GMJ plays RF.
It would give us the LH big bat we so sorely need.
He’s signed through 2009 only at $13M.
He gets on base drawing a ton of walks.
The down side is he K’s alot and his numbers have gone down. But so has Dye. thome is slow too, but Dye isn’t exactly Maury Wills
Go Angels!
by Four Ts on Jan 12, 2009 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
He can DH/1B while Morales can DH/RF freeing up a DH spot to Vlad whenever he needs it. But we just dont know his offense is gone. I think id rather take Dye
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 12, 2009 7:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So Kendry can right, but Rivera is not acceptable in Left or Right?
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
by hauldog on Jan 13, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
rivera is the left fielder
Thome- DH/1B
Vlad- RF/DH
Morales-1B/RF
Rivera- LF/LF
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 6:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
replyed to the wrong thing
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
by hauldog on Jan 13, 2009 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but the problem being
That he won’t be replacing Gary Matthews Jr. because we still have Gary Matthews Jr. no matter how you slice it. That, and it makes little sense to be taking on another bad contract for yet another aging outfielder when there are any number of great replacements—who need major league playing time—other than Willits waiting in the wings.
Figgins is too much for Dye.
Thanks for the attempted mischaracterization, but I don’t think Figgins is still good. We should have traded him last offseason. However, Reagins would essentially be throwing away the value that Figgins still has if he gives him up for a player we don’t need at a position that’s already overcrowded.
What would make much more sense would be to see what good prospects Figgins can land, or, failing that—to comb through the farm system find a couple of decent prospects we most certainly won’t need but who will have value for a team or two out there, and package them up with Figgy for a player we can actually use. No, I don’t have any suggestions on that front. But those are the two most sensible options.
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 12, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
can you let me in on some of these great replacements please??
There is not a SINGLE outfield prospect in the angel’s minor league system that deserves to play everyday in the major leagues, especially when the team is already going to be breaking in 2 other players in Morales and Wood and still hoping Aybar gets his time to figure it out
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 12, 2009 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is the best point yet
Figgins for Dye is a win-win… it frees up Wood for 3B, it puts a little more power in the lineup and like ihearhowie said above, breaking in 2 position players might be the logical limit. A year of Dye on what would have been Teix’s dime gives us a great rotation of OF/DH.
But no mas – Figgy for Dye, nada otro.
by Rev Halofan on Jan 12, 2009 5:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
My response
Goes to both your points.
That is exactly my point—Figgins for Dye will do NOTHING for that prospect situation. It will only prolong the inevitable, and even if we get the top 5 outfield prospects in this year’s draft, which we probably will not, Dye will be broken down and/or gone by the time they get here.
If we’re going to trade Figgins—which we by all means SHOULD—it makes much more sense to use his trade value to replenish the deplete farm system.
To respond to the other aspect of your point—no where did I ever suggest we should be calling up an OF prospect to play every day. But the fact is that with the addition of Dye, the outfield consists of, in declining order of expected awesomeness: Vlad/Torii, Torii/Vlad, Rivera, Dye, GMJ/Willits, Willits/GMJ, and, if you stretch it a bit, Quinlan. Why would you trade for a guy who isn’t going to play every day, or is going to inadvertently cause clubhouse discontent when he does play every day and subverts other players?
Why waste that Sixth Outfielder spot on a guy who’s only going to be here for 1 year, is going to cost a fair amount of $$, and is in the process of breaking down—when you could simply call up a guy on the way up who you could start for a few games (again, not “every day” as you want to put in my mouth)?
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 12, 2009 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I will add the caveat, however
That if we hadn’t already re-signed Rivera and weren’t stuck with GMJ, this deal would make a h-ll of a lot more sense.
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 12, 2009 9:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
this deal would make a h-ll of a lot more sense.
Wait, wait…I’m good at this game! I watch “Wheel of Fortune” all the time.
Let’s see…
“a hill of a lot more sense”…nope. OK, “a hull of a lot”…no. How about “a hall of a lot”…no, that doesn’t work.
Aw, hell, I can’t figure it out.
by George Kaplan on Jan 13, 2009 4:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
H-E-Double Hockey Sticks
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
by WiHaloFan on Jan 13, 2009 5:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just like the South Park episode:
People who irritate you …
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 9:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you! ;) I’m a relative south park virgin, having been enlightened by a few fellow HH’ers. Mainly, the Scientology episodes were the ones that drew me in. Sheer comedy.
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
dey dook er jerbs!
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 6:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We need to make a trade
Figgins is now expendable.
We have too many… well everything.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
by PhiSlamma on Jan 12, 2009 4:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
make the deal, it works because...
1. replaces some of the offense lost by tex (duh)
2. can split time w/vlad in rf and dh, which will benefit him as well as vlad.
3. takes the pressure off kendry and wood to producs while getting them both valuable mlb ab’s.
by thejd on Jan 12, 2009 5:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wood
This whole idea comes down to Brandon Wood playing 3B. If he really is about to step up (as many believe) then it’s a trade that has to be made. If he continues to hit around the Mendoza line, the trade makes no sense. Crystal ball, please.
I think it’s a bad move. But I’m not a believer in Wood. Believe me when I say I hope I’m wrong about this one.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
by ArkAngel on Jan 12, 2009 5:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Crystal ball and brass balls — go ninja go.
by Downing Rules on Jan 12, 2009 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ninja needs to go to del taco...
that is his place of peace and serenity.
by thejd on Jan 12, 2009 5:14 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Funny
because Del Taco reminds me of Jermaine Dye every time I hear the name. Over the summer, I had to eat there three times in one week at work, and all three times in the drive-thru, ESPN radio was talking about Jermaine Dye. It had to stick.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jan 12, 2009 5:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you think of their two new $3 meal deals? Quite a bargain.
by Downing Rules on Jan 12, 2009 5:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what's in 'em?
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 12, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
$0.43 worth of ingredients
plus an extra large soft drink.
by George Kaplan on Jan 12, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
gotta love that
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 12, 2009 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Better to get $0.43 worth of food for $3 than the usual $5 and change, eh George?
by Downing Rules on Jan 12, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I feel much better...
…knowing they aren’t taking me for the other $2.
by George Kaplan on Jan 13, 2009 4:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You must dine in every day …
I like to eat out ;)
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 9:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait
did you just now learn that restaurants have a tendency to charge more for their food than it actually cost them? THAT’S SO UNFAIR! Why would anyone do that to such a loyal customer such as myself!
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Jan 13, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know, I cannot believe George’s line of reasoning.
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
some people
they know the cost of everything and the value of nothing
by Rev Halofan on Jan 13, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Relax...
It is a small joke at the expense of Del Taco. My apologies to those of you with relatives working there.
by George Kaplan on Jan 13, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I get my hairnets there for free...
they just throw them away!
"…he has a 2 seam ‘heavy’ fastball that has sink but he does not throw a ‘sinker’." Angel Aviator on Jake Peavy.
by GarretSaysSuckIt on Jan 13, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I get the runs there for free...
included in the price of the $3 value meal! :)
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Figgy for Dye
I would do it, but I would be shocked if it would happen unless the Sox really want to dump Dye’s salary.
It’s good hat most agree that we need to trade Figgy since he is on the decline, but still has value. Trade him while the value is there and of course before he become a free agent.
by stolenbases on Jan 12, 2009 5:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i like it and i'd do it
…especially if we can get the ChiSox to kick in some cash
Dye gives us a powerful stopgap… he’s only around for one year, people! You stick Rivera in LF, Dye in RF/DH and Vlad in DH/RF. Woody becomes your new 3B, with Izturis/Aybar platooning at SS.
take a look a howie2.0’s lineup above… that’s none too shabby, kids.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 12, 2009 5:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Dye is $11.5M on the books for 2009
with a “mutual” option for 2010 of $12M ($1M buyout).
by Downing Rules on Jan 12, 2009 5:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting snippet from the article:
What Dye would bring (the Angels) is 137 home runs and 378 RBI since 2005 – the most from any American League outfielder in that span.
He is a 300AVG / 30+HR / 100 RBI guy. What’s not to like about this deal except an exacerbated logjam in the OF? Shoot, he’s 6’5" … put him at 1B and see if he can scoop baseballs out of the dirt.
by Downing Rules on Jan 12, 2009 5:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What it comes down to is
Would you want Figgins/Matthews in the lineup with Willits off the bench
or
Wood/Dye with Matthews off the bench and Willits OUTTA HERE. haha maybe we can even just give them Reggie Willits as part of the deal so they think theyre getting 2 leadoff guys
Considering how much people want more homers from the Angels, the combination of Wood/Dye/Matthews would appear to add about 30 more home runs to the lineup over the combination of Figgins/Matthews/Willits
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 12, 2009 5:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
and perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not...
the MLB site happens to have just put up a new article on how the Angels are counting on Brandon Wood breaking out in 2009.
Hmmm
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 12, 2009 5:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
saw that too
hmmm…..
me likey what i see
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 12, 2009 5:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hyperbole
“Brandon shows up in our depth chart at a number of areas — third base, shortstop,” Angels manager Mike Scioscia said.
Yeah. Well. I guess 2 is a number.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
by ArkAngel on Jan 12, 2009 5:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Typical Scoscia word-fu
He has perfected the art of saying absolutely nothing substantive while not lying nor being vague. I find this an admirable, if sometimes frustrating, attribute.
". . .and the young lions will lock horns!" -- Ron Fairly, from an Angels telecast
by rspencer on Jan 12, 2009 10:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly the shocking ninja move expect, but
it is low risk if it’s Figgins straight up. It adds Teix type power to the lineup. I say it’s worth a shot if there’s no hope of getting someone from the next tier up like Adrian Gonzalez or umm Albert Pujols.
Don't mess with Teix-ass or Bor-ass!
by Rally Manatee on Jan 12, 2009 5:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
it should also be noted
that Dye does suffer a tiny bit away from the launched pad that is US Cellular.
Career Home: .284/.348/.507/.856 with 152 HRs
Career Road: .268/..328/.476/.804 with 146 HRs
so while the power doesn’t suffer, he seems to be more comfortable at home. i don’t know if that means US Cellular or any home stadium…
Ballpark Factor
US Cellular: 1.122
Angel Stadium: 1.017
US Cellular favors hitters, Angel Stadium is virtually neutral.
Just something to keep in mind.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 12, 2009 6:09 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
The only other time he played in a neutral/pitcher's park was in oakland...
and his numbers sufferred.
by NoDakHalo on Jan 13, 2009 7:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like it
Figgins for Dye…
I think a lineup with Dye has a better look and more runs scored than a lineup with Figgins
Outfielders For Sale! This weeks special...GMJ - see Tony for details!
by gorams77 on Jan 12, 2009 6:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
nononononononononononononononononono
dye is awful with the glove. angel stadium is neutral, as howiestheman said, but its also tilted against flyballs, meaning that dye will not have the great power numbers that he had in usc field.
also, he’s 34. if we want outfield depth, there is no point in trading for him, as he will be unplayable in the field in a couple of years. only reason he still plays in the outfield in chw is because of thome and konerko. i agree, figgins has some value in a trade, but a straight up trade for dye isn’t it.
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 12, 2009 6:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
"in a couple of years"
in a couple of years he wouldnt be here. He makes 11 mil next year with an option for 2010. He could feasibly be out of here after next season
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 12, 2009 6:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
which makes this trade perfect
plus i’m pretty sure we’ll get at least one draft pick.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 12, 2009 6:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am pretty sure
that MLB teams aren’t allowed to trade draft picks.
by lackey41 on Jan 12, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i think
that he means we’ll get draft pick compensation when Dye leaves as a type A/B free agent after this season.
"Here we go baby, 'bout f***'n' time!"
by b0rd3rline on Jan 12, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
apparently
that wasn’t clear enough
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 12, 2009 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure.
At his age, and especially if he doesn’t have a great season, he might go ahead and accept arbitration.
by Nate on Jan 12, 2009 8:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If he doesn't have a great season
The Halos probably would go the GA route and decline to offer arbitration in the first place…
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 12, 2009 9:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
but that possibility is all the more reason not to trade for him.
by Nate on Jan 12, 2009 10:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Which again makes one wonder
Why the Halos don’t just re-sign GA for a couple more years if they want someone like him again that badly…
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 12, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
GA's biggest defender here to weigh in...
Dye’s better.
"…he has a 2 seam ‘heavy’ fastball that has sink but he does not throw a ‘sinker’." Angel Aviator on Jake Peavy.
by GarretSaysSuckIt on Jan 12, 2009 10:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And GA’s agent will be a block to any “actual value” negotiations by the Angels.
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not if GA wants a job next season!
"…he has a 2 seam ‘heavy’ fastball that has sink but he does not throw a ‘sinker’." Angel Aviator on Jake Peavy.
by GarretSaysSuckIt on Jan 13, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
meh. He already got a $3M “buyout” from the Halos. Not a bad take for not having to do anything. I’d settle for a $100K buyout to do nothing in 2009.
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
RE: dye's glove
i’m not into defensive sabr-stats, so somebody else will have to do that, but last year, Dye’s fielding percentage was .996… in 151 games. his career fielding percentage is 980. in comparison, GA’s is 989, and Vlad’s in .963
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 12, 2009 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dye is terrible in the field
According to most fielding stats (like UZR and RngR), hes the 4th worst RF in the game (in between Vlad and Griffey). Then again, this might be affected by playing at cellular half his games because the ball carries so well and makes it difficult for fielders. Still, his value would lie in his bat, playing DH. The more games he plays DH, the better. Unfortunately, same goes for Vlad. But Vlads ratings have him just slightly better than Dye in the field, so I think a 65-35 Dye/Vlad DH split could work out well. Also, by moving Figgins, it means Wood can play 3B opening up SS for Aybar whose defense more than makes up for our RF shortcomings, actually quite possibly making our defense better
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 12, 2009 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not as valuable
DHs usually are not that valuable because of their liability in that they cannot play the field. When you try to approximate values for each player, you knock off some of the value for DHs because anyone can play that position; in comparison, you give shortstops and 2B a bonus because they are a rare commodity. Some calculations show Adam Dunn to be worth approximately equal to Erick Aybar right now in terms of relative value, showing how big of a difference this makes. Anyway, my point is, it makes no sense to sign/trade for any player to be a DH unless he is a mega-masher (as in Ortiz- or Braun-type hitters).
And we already have quite a few pretty immobile defenders in the outfield, no? I mean, even if we assume that Vlad will benefit from his knee surgery, Rivera is not great, and Hunter isn’t getting any younger too. Giving up the depth that Figgins provides for just another of these outfielders (albeit one that can actually hit) is not worth it, imo.
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 13, 2009 2:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Some calculations show Adam Dunn to be worth approximately equal to Erick Aybar"
Haha. Those calculations are wrong. Dead wrong.
by matt92130 on Jan 13, 2009 2:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
correction
Many calculations show that Adam Dunn as a LFer is about as valuable as Erick Aybar as a SS.
Adam Dunn at DH is better than Aybar at SS.
ill post the numbers in a bit
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ok here we go (courtesy of fangraphs.com)
Last year, Adam Dunn was worth 28.6 batting runs, and -22.8 fielding runs. Add in 21.7 runs for replacement, and subtract 8 runs because of his position, divide by 10, and you have a +1.9 player.
Last year, Chone Figgins was worth -4.2 batting runs, and 8.1 fielding runs. Add in 17.3 runs for replacement level (he played less games, and in a different league), and add 1.5 runs because of his position, divide by 10 and you have a +2.3 win player, better than Adam Dunns 1.9 wins in less playing time. Dunn is such a bad fielder that when he is forced to play the field, his offensive impact is basically negated, and he becomes just an average player.
But if Dunn DHs, he has 28.6 batting runs, 0 fielding runs. Add in 21.7 runs for replacement, and subtract 17.5 runs for being a DH, divide by 10, and you have a +3.3 win player.
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
couldn't have said it better
thank you
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 13, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not the whole story
Not to sound like a math professor, but you’ve left a few terms out of your calculation. Dunn is still liable for his defensive ineptitude even as a DH, because someone still has to play the field. His presence on the Angels roster would make the defense worse than it would have been without him. I crunched these numbers before and got a different answer: if I had to gamble on Dunn, I wouldn’t bet on him being worth more than about one win above replacement.
by Suboptimal on Jan 13, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your numbers do look solid
but what if Vlad leaves after this season? While his WAR might be 1 for the club because it forces Vlad and Rivera to play full time outfield, if Vlad leaves then we can replace him with a sturdier glove (like willits).
Also, FRAA I dont think are park neutralized, meaning an average fielder with slightly below average speed put in Great American would appear to be a below average to bad fielder because of the dimensions of the stadium and how the ball carries. I dont think it would make Dunn an average fielder by any means, but it will be interesting to see his UZR/150 with arizona vs his UZR/150 in cinncy, and I dont know the park factors of the top of my head for B.O.B. either
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 14, 2009 12:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t account for the possibility of Vlad leaving because it’s just too far in the future to have any idea what Reagins and Moreno might be thinking. For all I know, if they don’t sign Dunn now (which I don’t believe they will), they might go after Matt Holliday next winter. Or pursue a trade we can’t envision yet. Who knows. It does seem clear that Dunn could only limit the possibilities.
The dimensions I have for Great American Ballpark list 328 feet to the left-field foul pole and 366 to the left-center. Angel Stadium is 330 feet and 382 feet. That’s a much larger outfield to have to run, especially in the gap. It also means more balls to have to run down, since fewer are going over the fence. My guess is that Dunn’s gruesome defensive work would look even worse in Anaheim.
by Suboptimal on Jan 14, 2009 1:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, thanks
I didnt have the numbers, i was just basing it on the fact that great american has more offense. Yeah, youre right about the looking too far into the future thing, as Holliday is likely going to be a FA and alot of other stuff could happen.
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 14, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The good thing about Holliday going to Oakland is that we'll finally get to see how good he really is.
His reputation as a being an offensive force appears to be inflated by playing half his games in Colorado. He shouldn’t be happy about being exposed in his free agent year.
Career OPS
Home: 1.068
Road: .803
by snowhor on Jan 14, 2009 8:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago Media
How many different “Figgins to the White Sox” rumors can they come up with?
by HungryHunter on Jan 12, 2009 6:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This trade would be awful.
Check out Dye’s numbers on the road last year: .250 .303 .477.
Why trade Figgins for Dye when we could sign Dunn to a short term contract at a similar dollar amount that we’d take on with Dye?
This would then free up Figgins to be traded for something useful instead of something unuseful.
by snowhor on Jan 12, 2009 6:45 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
the assumption
is that we could sign Dunn for something close to what Dye would be getting.
by Rev Halofan on Jan 12, 2009 7:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no way
Angels will not pay Dye’s contract, when Figgy’s is much lower. The Angels would ask for cash or a player to be named later.
Juan is the LFer and GMJ unfortunately still exists. Dye is not the DH type as he isn’t a switch hitter. Anyhow, the Angels in their walk years might have career years, including Figgy.
And as far as 3rd base goes, who’s on 3rd? If Wood continues to swing at balls two feet out of the strike zone, will you put Izzy there? And haven’t Izzy and Aybar constantly shown a propensity towards injury?
So bottom line, what’s the hurry? Let’s see if Figgy has blimped out. Let’s see how Wood’s swing is. After all, they dumped him out of winter league ball. And Dye will be there in March, down the road in Tucson.
by Kristy_Joe on Jan 12, 2009 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
good point
If wood fails, whos next at 3B? Sean Rodriguez or Matt Brown if they break out and go on a tear. If not, then we got Robb Quinlan, who can play adequately enough
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 12, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, they really weren't good points.
Sean Rodriguez is possibly a better prospect that Wood. He’d be a solid option if it came to that. He too just needs AB’s.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on Jan 12, 2009 8:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i was first gonna support it because i forgot S-Rod played third and about quinlan
then i was like wait a second, what am i talking about then i switched it up and forgot to change the header. Studyin for finals will do that
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 12, 2009 11:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Blah, blah, blah....
Juan is the LFer and GMJ unfortunately still exists.
That doesn’t mean GMJ has to be played. Adding Dye to the roster makes it nearly impossible for Scioscia to pencil GMJ into the lineup. Reagins is doing his job – constructing the best 25-man and 40-man roster.
Dye is not the DH type as he isn’t a switch hitter.
What? Who cares if a DH is a switch hitter as long as he can, you know, hit. Dye ain’t the best choice for this – I still prefer Dunn, by a lot – but he is pretty darn close to being the quintessential DH, sans really solid OBP.
And as far as 3rd base goes, who’s on 3rd?
Really? You are seriously asking this question? Brandon Friggin’ Wood is at 3rd if this proposed/alleged trade occurs. A 970 OPS in AAA as a 23-year old screams, “let me play!” He is a perfectly acceptable option at 3B in 2009 and forward. I, personally, like the idea of playing him at SS until his glove forces a move off of the position, but nonetheless, B-Wood needs to play everyday at the MLB level in 2009.
So bottom line, what’s the hurry? Let’s see if Figgy has blimped out. Let’s see how Wood’s swing is.
What’s the hurry? B-Wood isn’t getting younger and there is a non-zero chance he is a very valuable major league player right now. Why not maximize that right now? Also, Figgy is a FA after 2009 and won’t have higher value than he has right now. If he comes out and stinks up the joint in April, his value drops a lot – unload him now for a guys (DYE) that has power and is only signed for a year as well. Seems solid to me. As someone else said, (paraphrasing a bit) – “every day Figgy is on the roster is a day that he is less valuable to other teams”. Figgy needs to be dealt and if Adam Dunn isn’t in the Ninja’s plans (he really should be) then I can live with a year of Jermaine Dye as the DH in LAAoA.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on Jan 12, 2009 8:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
and rec’d.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 12, 2009 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I still don't see the point of trading Figgins for someone worse than GA, which Dye's road numbers suggest he'll be.
by snowhor on Jan 12, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is a fair assumption.
The assumption that is in question is whether or not Reagins is interested in signing Dunn. I think the Halos should be, but I don’t think they are…
I agree with Snowhor – Dunn should be the first option, but if it isn’t and the team isn’t planning on adding any offense, then Figgy should be flipped for offense that can DH. Getting Dye, while not optimal, is an OK 1-year stop-gap until a better option can be acquired. I’d love to get a better hitter than Dye, or a less expensive hitter than Dye, but that isn’t likely.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on Jan 13, 2009 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agree wholeheartedly
while getting dye could improve our offense, we have to look at other alternatives as well. Dunn could very well go in the 2/16-18 or 3/24-26 range, especially considering Burells contract. I would rather sign Dunn that trade for Dye, and then trade figgins and a prospect or two for a high endish starter or a good reliever (such as Harden) who fills out the backend of our rotation, or completes our awesome bullpen. Doing this and letting Vlad and Dunn split DH time with Juan playin LF/RF and wood at third and aybar fulltime SS, the negative impact of Dunns D could be offset by Aybar playing fulltime, Wood also looks to be at worst average at 3B (aka figgins) and at best an upgrade defensively. The only problem would be a leadoff hitter…
Aybar? SS
Howie-2B
Vlad-RF/DH
Dunn-LF/DH
Torii- CF
Juan-LF/RF
1B-Morales
C-Napoli
3B-Wood
and a rotation of Lackey, Santana, Saunders, Harden (or someone similar), Weaver
Wed be so stacked, and our offense would turn from a big problem into at worst league average. Our lineup would be lacking speed however, although we would have S,R,R,L,R,R,S,R,R which would give 8 righties or 3 lefties depending on the pitcher.
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 12, 2009 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dunn is a better alternative, but
Dye for Figgy is a decent trade. Basically, the logjam needs to be cleared out and this would do it. Ideally, we trade Figgy for a younger, less expensive player that has at least 2 years in him before he is a FA, but that is not probable with Figgy as the only trade chit.
That OBP for Dye leaves a bit to be desired and Dye is a RH hitter – all of which bothers me.
Again, Dunn is the better option but Dye would be an offensive upgrade, for sure.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on Jan 12, 2009 7:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
reagins already said...
that dunn isn’t coming to anaheim.
by thejd on Jan 12, 2009 7:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
thats to drive down the price
and then NINJA!
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 12, 2009 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Reportedly
Dunn wants four year at 14MM per. I would do it for that price, but I do not think it is happening.
Give the young guns a chance...if they suck wellll...
by angelskid2210 on Jan 13, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't at all
4/56…no way, no how
Go Angels!
by Four Ts on Jan 13, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Angels want another aging right-handed hitting outfielder,
they should just swallow their pride and sign Manny.
by Chzburger Jones on Jan 12, 2009 7:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
ditto, do we need another aging outfielder?
Angels in 09!
by tanana40 on Jan 12, 2009 7:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the reasoning
Is that Dye would be for 1 year, but with Manny they’d be stuck with 3-4 years. So there’s that. I dunno, maybe they’ve got something or someone in their sights for the ’09 offseason and need a stop-gap for the time being…beyond me.
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 12, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How about using Figgins as part of a package to get Matt Kemp after the dodgers re-sign Manny?
by snowhor on Jan 12, 2009 9:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes no sense whatsoever for the Dodgers.
Their IF is set. Blake and Furcal are locked up for the next 3 years and DeWitt and Loney will be mainstays in the right side of the IF long term. Besides, the Dodgers have the same problem we do. They don’t have enough power. Matt Kemp hit 18 home runs last year and has the potential to be a 30/30 guy. Figgins doesn’t hit for power at all.
by Chzburger Jones on Jan 12, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but the Dodgers supposedly
Don’t have smart management. They might bite—eh, mattwelch?
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 12, 2009 10:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm hoping they might still be on that Kemp isn't gritty and gamer enough line of thinking.
Oh, and dodgers should always be lowercase.
by snowhor on Jan 13, 2009 1:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is why I like Dye:
There is no such thing as a bad one-year contract in baseball.
by Rev Halofan on Jan 12, 2009 10:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
turned out great for everyone
we got terry evans, cards got a trophy, weaver suckered seattle and helped us in ’07 by sucking for our division rivals!!!!!
by Rev Halofan on Jan 13, 2009 12:32 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
True, true
Though the Halos also got front-row seats to the 2006 post-season thanks in large part to Jeff Weaver—from their living rooms!
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 13, 2009 12:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
***twirls finger***
terry evans, whoooo
by Sethy on Jan 13, 2009 7:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rev by that same rational
Tell me you’re on my side for signing Mark Mulder to 1 year $1M deal for the 5th slot.
Remember what you just said, “There is no such thing as a bad one-year contract in baseball.”
by matt92130 on Jan 13, 2009 2:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A million bucks for a disabled list spot?
Can the dude even pick up a baseball?
by Rev Halofan on Jan 13, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Mulder for president!
(No, we’re not related.) But by the same rational… it’s a one year deal. We’ve made way worse! It’s only a mill. Give him a shot!
by matt92130 on Jan 13, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Shea Hillenbrand
Angels fan since '67
by red floyd on Jan 13, 2009 6:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It haunts me forever.
Along with Steve Finley, Von Hayes, Hubie Brooks…
by snowhor on Jan 13, 2009 6:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His miniature ponies haunt the shit out of me
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
by hauldog on Jan 13, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
well played....
that was fucking creepy (my Jan. F-Bomb). Using it on Hillenbrand seems appropriate.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on Jan 14, 2009 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed F him. My f bomb is long gone
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
by hauldog on Jan 14, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That felt like 10.
"…he has a 2 seam ‘heavy’ fastball that has sink but he does not throw a ‘sinker’." Angel Aviator on Jake Peavy.
by GarretSaysSuckIt on Jan 13, 2009 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I ended up
with a game-used Edgardo Alfonzo jersey out of it so I ended up being cool with that deal after all…
by Rev Halofan on Jan 13, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Multiple choice
These are neutralized (i.e. park-adjusted) career numbers for four outfielders:
A. .269 / .314 / .444 (.758 OPS)
B. .265 / .326 / .472 (.798 OPS)
C. .262 / .316 / .453 (.769 OPS)
D. .259 / .332 / .411 (.743 OPS)
They’re all in their thirties. They’re all right-handed (although one of them switch hits). Three of them are on the Angels roster, and one of them is Jermaine Dye. Can you tell which?
It’s B. You might have guessed from the OPS that is 5% greater than the average of the other three. A is Juan Rivera, C is Torii Hunter, and D is Gary Matthews Jr.
The Angels already have Jermaine Dye: a low-OBP right-handed outfielder with plus power. Actually, they have three Jermaine Dyes, but they’re all younger and play better defense. Considering that the Angels are already paying $31 million for A, C, and D, why would they give up $11 million and their lead-off man for just 5% more OPS?
I suppose they might, since the front office seems to have a thing for aging outfielders these days. But I have to disagree that Figgins is expendable. No player on the team can match his combination of speed and OBP. The purpose of the on-base man is to, you know, get on base. Neither Izturis nor Aybar can do this as well as Figgins. My unofficial recommendation is: hell no.
by Suboptimal on Jan 12, 2009 10:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
youre forgetting that part of this is opening up 3rd base for Wood
Figgins isnt that good. Nobodys saying Dye is the end all-be all, we’re just saying that if Figgins is gonna be dealt, why not do it for another Torii Hunter? Id sure prefer two Torii Hunters and Wood over Hunter, Matthews and Figgins. But thats just me. I hate gary matthews and strongly believe we need to get younger to compete beyond 2009. Keeping Figgins just delays that
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 12, 2009 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't hate GMJ
but i dont think he’s anything more than a very expensive 4th outfielder/defensive replacement.
anywho, i do agree with the sentiment of getting younger (though we could use some of that in the OF). the sooner we can develop the young core of Morales, Kendrick, Aybar, Wood and Napoli, they better off this team is going to be.
btw, isn’t that a sick group of young players?!
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 12, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is trading for Jermaine Dye
Your only solution for the problem of how to open up third base for Wood?
There have got to be plenty of other destinations for Figgins, that would fit much better with the Angels’ needs for next season and the future.
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 12, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
such as...?
how do you view the Angels’ needs?
i still think power is toward the top, and the combo of Dye/Wood will provide much more of that than Figgins/GMJ or Wood/GMJ.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 12, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
isnt it obvious
clearly 1 year of an aging chone figgins should be able to net us jay bruce or colby rasmus or some other top flight outfield prospect of the future.
I think its pretty obvious Figgins isnt going to get you any sure things in terms of prospects. No team will give up any of their top 5, maybe even top 10, farm hands for 1 year of Figgins coming off a downright mediocre year. If you can get a PROVEN bat for 2009 to make sure we arent threatened by Oakland, why not do that?
In terms of prospects, all youd get for figgins is a bunch of Terry Evans clones ie: useless pieces that will never impact the club. Jermaine Dye impacts the club in 2009 while allowing an infield of the future to grow together in Morales, Howie, Aybar and Wood.
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 13, 2009 8:20 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm calling you out
You’re being an a$$. I don’t know what the F your deal is with me but I’m getting extremely fucking tired of your consistent placement of words into my mouth, misrepresentation of my posts, and overall being a dick. It wouldn’t kill you to be civil, instead of the constant berating.
Also maybe you can lend us all your crystal ball since you can see so clearly exactly who Chone would net us and exactly how Evans will never have any positive impact on this club.
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 13, 2009 7:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I will say again...
I prefer Adam Dunn to DH with B-Wood at SS and Figgy at 3rd base. But, if the Halos are going to put Aybar at SS then Figgy needs to go. Dye isn’t a bad pick-up if that is the way the situation plays out….
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on Jan 12, 2009 10:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I will say again
That I agree Figgy needs to go. I do not see a trade for Jermaine Dye as the natural extension of that line of thought.
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 12, 2009 11:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Torii Hunter was brought in not for his bat, but for his glove
his bat was a factor, but not the main reason. Figgins can play in the OF instead of Dye, and be at least average defensively and play all three positions. Dye can play RF only, and he sucks at it
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 12, 2009 11:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
An $18m glove? I don't think so.
If all they wanted was a glove, they had that in GMJ. Torii was brought in because he could supply the offense that the front office should have known GMJ cannot. I don’t think they expected him to be a great bat (or at least they shouldn’t have), but they did expect (and received) an offensive upgrade.
by snowhor on Jan 13, 2009 1:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly. I guess i misspoke (wrote)
I meant that Toriis bat wasnt the main reason. It was definitely an obvious upgrade, but it wasnt his bat alone that got him the contract
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 6:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree. We already had a $10M glove with no bat (GMJ). Hunter was brought in as another big bat with Vlad. Now, for some reason, we are still short one “big bat.” It’s like a Holy Grail for our Halos.
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 9:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Figgins isn't blocking Wood
I think, given the current roster, Wood gets most of the starts at third, and Figgins plays the corner outfield spots while Juan and Vlad alternate at DH. GMJ probably gets a shot at Figgins’ starting role when he comes off the DL. They’re paying him too much to bench him without a try-out.
Trading Figgins would leave only GMJ to lead off, which is what the FO (unfortunately) hired him to do. Adding Jermaine Dye on top of that would create another five-outfielder situation, with room for only one at DH. They might as well bring back GA instead, just for the hell of it.
Keeping Figgins at least gives you a competent lead-off man and some flexibility at third if Wood is a bust. If another candidate for lead-off man emerges (Sean Rodriguez?), Figgins could then be moved to fill some other need, probably pitching.
by Suboptimal on Jan 13, 2009 12:28 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with you personally...
but no way Scioscia pencils in Wood over Figgy if both are on the roster.
Also, no way GMJ "gets a shot at Figgins’ starting role. I think the ship has sailed on GMJ. He is a bench player.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on Jan 13, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
GMJ is out to start the season…. So I am pretty sure that Wood will start “over” Figgins at 3B. And I think it may be fair to say that when GMJ comes back, he has a shot at Figgins’ position in LF.
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Too costly to bench
Scioscia doesn’t have to choose between Wood and Figgins, at least at the start of the year. And if Wood has a good six weeks to start the season (unlikely, since he seems to be a slow starter), the choice is really between Figgins and GMJ, whose salary increases to $10 million next year, third highest on the team. That’s just too much money to bench. He’ll be coming off of surgery and rehab, so like it or not, it seems that the Angels have no choice but to try him out again and hope for the best. He’s really not a horrible player, and it’s not his fault he’s overpaid. League average is hardly a bad OPS for a natural center fielder with a good glove. But a lead-off man, he is not.
by Suboptimal on Jan 13, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We can agree to disagree here...
Highest paid does not equal unending chances to suck on the baseball field.
He’s really not a horrible player
Yeah, he is.
it’s not his fault he’s overpaid
But it will be Scioscia’s fault if he plays him.
League average is hardly a bad OPS
League Average? What are you talking about? How is he league average? Please explain.
for a natural center fielder with a good glove.
You owe me a new iMac – I just spit my soda all over it after reading that line. Are you friggin’ kidding me? He is a butcher with the glove – or at least was in 2008. Hopefully that was his knee, but I certainly have a hard time believing that the surgically repaired knee will make that big a difference. GMJ is a complete waste of money and a roster space. I am firmly in the camp that believes that he should be released. He is awful.
But a lead-off man, he is not.
We agree on something.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on Jan 13, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Angels paid for possibly the greatest catch of all-time
by matt92130 on Jan 13, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I still like Edmonds' better.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
by ArkAngel on Jan 13, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Mitchell Barehanded
down the line
by Rev Halofan on Jan 13, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but that was a corrected mistake.
LOL
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
by ArkAngel on Jan 13, 2009 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All phenonemenal catches...
Acrobatic goes to GMJ. Just pure sweetness and “Oh my God” (As my chin dropped) goes to Jimmy E. Mitchell’s was unbelievable too.
by matt92130 on Jan 13, 2009 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Average is not horrible
Normalized over his career, GMJ has produced an EqR of .264 and been worth about 1.5 batting runs above average per year. That’s just about the definition of league average. If you don’t like that metric, Baseball Reference values him with a career OPS+ of 94—six points below the average hitter from 1999 to 2008. The average OPS+ for a CF is usually around 93-97 in any given year. If that is horrible, then so was Darin Erstad, because his career OPS+ is 94 as well.
No one has really devised a satisfactory way to measure defensive performance in the outfield. Fangraphs had him pegged as dead-average in CF, and below average in the corner spots last year. That seems mostly reasonable to me; his knee seemed to bother him and he looked a little uncomfortable reading the ball off the bat in the corner spots. When he’s healthy, he’ll occasionally misplay a ball in the gap, but otherwise he does a good job getting to the ball and putting a glove on it. At least those have been my observations over the years.
I’m not trying to defend his contract, or claim that he should get more playing time. I’m not even saying that he’s good. But is he horrible? No. Horrible is replacement level; GMJ is just about average. He doesn’t even look that bad in the Angels lineup. Despite playing only 3/4 of a season, he took more unintentional walks than any Angel batter not named Chone Figgins. He hit just .242 in 426 AB, but the probability of a career .259 hitter doing that is about one-in-four. That’s not inconceivably poor performance.
What he did in 2006 is inconceivable: about 0.1% likely (although he may have had some “chemically mediated assistance”). We are all very sorry that he did, because now we’re stuck with management trying to get him to do it again. Not a very smart $50 million gamble, but they made it, and it’s just too much money to swallow without at least one more roll of the dice.
by Suboptimal on Jan 13, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He had some great catches (at least 2 I saw in person) for the Halos in 2007.
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
oh, someone already said that.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jan 13, 2009 1:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of outfielders
How’s Terry Evans doing? Not sure if he projects to actually be a regular in the majors.
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 13, 2009 2:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
he doesnt
his numbers suggest he’s got career minor leaguer written all over him. He hit 4 home runs in a very hitter friendly park last year in 46 games at age 26.
People here dont even think Wood deserves ABs for the bigs and he destroyed AAA last year at age 23. I find it more or less hillarious that this post suggests Terry Evans is a better fit for the Angels than Jermaine Dye.
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 13, 2009 8:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
d'oh
wonder what happened to him? he had a .316 / .352 / .512 in 2007.
in any case, our outfield is screwed in a couple of years then.
(LF) immobile Rivera – (CF) old Hunter – (RF) old Vlad
+ sucky GMJ
+ useless Willits
+ Bourjos?
this is why you shouldn’t pay for mediocre free agents and only go for the elite talent, and risk overpaying. i fear that our commitment to GMJ and Hunter may have sapped us of our funds to go get any other big FAs in the near future (Holliday?)
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 13, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
i still think willits has some value
not high grade prospect value, but he could be a decent 4th OF as long as we dont ask him to hit anywhere near the heart of the order
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but 4th OFs have almost no value
i bet you there are at least 5 players who we can just sign right now that will provide us with the same production that Willits gives us. I’m sure that you’ll agree that players like Reggie are good for organizational depth, but not that great if you’re trying to win a championship. Fangraphs projects him to have an wOBA of around .330, which is completely league average. (Bunting and grit not included)
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 13, 2009 10:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
Agree, but willits is under team control for a while so very cheap compared to FA that we could sign. Also, willits has speed and the ability to take pitches. While I think it was the rev that said that Willits is a AAA player that takes pitches is accurate, it underrates him a bit. Taking pitches (that arent strikes) is a very valuable skill because it forces the pitcher to labor more and a quick easy out is no longer that. Willits also has plus speed, so when he gets on he can be a big distraction to the pitcher
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
very true
although you wonder what his true skill level is. he was great in 2007, then was unspeakably awful last year. hopefully it’s just a matter of adjustments.
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 13, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thikn the truth lies in his BABIP
it was high in 07, and crazy low in 08 so that while he is better than he showed last year, how talented and productive he actually can become is anyones guess at this point
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 14, 2009 12:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
which worries me
i think players with speed like Willits are generally able to maintain a fairly consistent BABIP, but if it falters like it did last year, it essentially renders Wilits worthless, as he doesn’t really offer anything more than BA and OBP. unless he develops some power, noone should be surprised to see Willits be essentially a replacement level player.
the best course of action would be to hope for another season like 2007 then trade him for a mid-level prospect.
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 14, 2009 2:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Willits does have a career minor league .397 OBP
Looking at his minor league numbers, and making a few calculations for BABIP, he has a career .360 BABIP, so his .363 BABIP of 2007 may lie closer to his true talent level. Then again, fielders and pitchers are better in the MLB, so i think calling for a .345 BABIPish season could be about right.
If he was forced into a starting role for much of 2008, as he was for 2006, his numbers would look something like this…
.281 AVG/.381 OBP. Im not sure exactly how to calculate SLG because im not sure that the hits that would be taken away would be singles, doubles or triples, etc… but figure it in the .330 range. But as an emergency starter or as an emergency leadoff man those numbers arent bad, or even awful for a starter. He also has value on the basepaths as well. So hes no allstar or even good player, but hes not as bad as most people claim he is
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 14, 2009 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
As a bag boy.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
by hauldog on Jan 14, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
At the same time...
Does it really make sense to flip Figgy for more pitching? Do we really need more pitching?
But, on the other side- he does appear to be a declining talent who’s maximum value might be optimized right now if he’s traded.
It’s a dilemma, really…
Do you trade your best speed player? And for what? I don’t think Jermaine Dye is the answer.
Tex is a Yank...now our counter move is what?
by hk47 on Jan 13, 2009 10:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
A need will arise
One always does. The team has four starters right now, and barring a free agent signing or trade, the fifth will be decided in the spring. Escobar may or may not pitch in the second half. Some people may not realize just how remarkable the rotation’s health was last year: no rotation in baseball pitched more innings with fewer starters. They made all but 13 of 162 starts last year and averaged almost 6.5 innings per start. That is really remarkable. It is very likely that someone will develop an injury after all that work last year. It’s just too hard to maintain that level of endurance for more than one season.
by Suboptimal on Jan 13, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly.
what if one of lackey/santana/saunders/weaver goes down? Adenhart and Ortega could both possibly be starters. Thats not really optimal. I think one of the reasons we got Garland last year was because we were really uncomftorable having both santana and saunders pitching incase a starter went down. the FO probably figured one of the two would emerge and at least be a competent 5th starter. Then Lackey and Escobar went down, and we know the rest. We just cant count on anything similar this year if the need arises
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 13, 2009 6:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ARGH
I have the haunting feeling that the Halos front office is in that whole . . piece it together stage.
What are we waiting for exactly? our aging outfield to get older? our wooden legs to get creakier? Our Rotation to realize that we can’t get it done and go to greener, pinstripey/fenway pastures? It’s that time, folks, already.
Think 2009 looks bleak? How’s 2010 for you?
We’ve overplayed our hand and kept our youth while they burned right through their “high trade values” (see Wood, KEndrick, Adenhart, McPherson, etc.) – - and how many of them are consistent contributors to the Halos (Sure, Howie was hurt, and I think he’ll bat .310 this year, but…)
It’s this year or bust, gang. Swallow your pride, Sign Man-Ram, and let’s go out and see if we can swing this season together.
Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "I drank what?"
The Geek.
by The OC Sports Geek on Jan 13, 2009 12:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe troll points for Cowley on this one
Personally I think he did it solely for the LULZ!!!!!!!!!!
I'm gonna drop the hammer, and dispense some indiscriminate justice!
Terran siege tank
by angelsown3417 on Jan 13, 2009 1:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I am just glad to hear that the Angels are interested in adding anything at all, to be honest
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
by hauldog on Jan 13, 2009 2:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Anyone else see what they're saying about this over at AN?
by NoDakHalo on Jan 13, 2009 2:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
what is WAR?
I know, I know… a card game for kids. I play it with my 4-year-old…he beats me at it regularly.
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wins Above Replacement
great to look back on to analyze a player, impossible to predict the future with – but try telling an astrologer that mercury is not retrograde…
by Rev Halofan on Jan 13, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
here's the mariners' take
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2009/1/13/719577/lowe-america-s-team#11383721
when our division rivals are hoping that we make the trade, chances are it’s not a very good one..
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 13, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure they are dry-washing their hands ...
over the Richie Sexon discussions, too. We owe them a few re-treaded players what with us having dished them out plateloads of crap like Wash and Spiezio (I love those two guys, but they found nothing but misery up in the great Northwest).
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 4:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Washburn and Spiezio had success with the Angels but were compensated for it by the Mariners. NICE!
I also want to thank the Mariners for a comically entertaining 2008. The Mariners were very amusing both on and off the field.
—————-W—L—-GB
Angels——100 62
*
*
Mariners—-61 101 39.0
"Playoffs?? Don’t talk about — playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game!"
by Fan Since 1981 on Jan 13, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that was an entertaining year. Especially enhanching the Seattle Mariner’s 2008 entertainment factor was the fact that Lookout Landing sposored Mike Scioscia’s Baseball Reference page and claimed to be the 2008 AL West champs before the season even started. Their team had such a great start with that “statement game” (as the Mariners called it) during Spring Training and half of the North American media behind their team to unseat the Halos for the title.
Ridiculously funny comedy and tragedy all rolled into one.
Although, we have our own set of tragedies, as long as we can laugh it off, it’s all good.
by Downing Rules on Jan 13, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I concur
With that utterly true statement.
by TheAntiSox on Jan 14, 2009 10:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
anyway
if we’re looking for old outfielders who can hit a bit, i hear there’s this guy called Manuel who’s looking for a job. just throwing it out there.
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 13, 2009 4:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Also for the record
Lyle Spencer agrees that acquiring Dye is not the best move.
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 13, 2009 7:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
the quality of the comments on the page makes me worry about the future of our nation
so far on the front page, i have seen “reatreted as hell”, “stfu” and “are you people smoking crack?”
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 13, 2009 8:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, finally
Reagins: “No truth to that rumor.”
Seems that any interest expressed in Dye was expressed before Juan Rivera became our starting LF for 2009. The Angels aren’t comfortable with letting Figgy go because that would leave no back-up for Wood at 3B except for Izzy, whose hammies the Halos do not believe to be reliable.
Interesting they’re not willing to risk Wood at third with back-ups of Matt Brown, Sean Rodriguez, or, forbid, Robb Quinlan…maybe they don’t want to back-up a rookie with a rookie?
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 13, 2009 11:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
my god
just let wood play (about 2 years too late anyway). play on the upside.
now that i think about it, we should have just let him play every day last year when we had like a 63 game lead.
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 14, 2009 2:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
I don’t know about last year—he did get a lot of playing time in September, which was when he finally started to break out, as opposed to late April/May when he stank up the joint. I think that time back in AAA really helped him out.
But now, yes—he should be playing every day. So long as Soth understands that this is the case and that Figgy is strictly backup at 3B when he’s not playing LF (or wherever it is he winds up playing), this should be Wood’s moment to truly shine.
Light Up That Halo!
by Clutch on Jan 14, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
that he just needs to play everyday, but 2 years ago? Why get his arb clock ticking so early just to watch him get eaten alive?
by dmhead on Jan 14, 2009 10:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I meant in 2007
I don’t think Wood playing in the minors last season helped him progress as a hitter. When he got used to seeing Major League pitching, he improved in September. You might think that it was too early for him, but look at the Marlins – they blood their prospects early, and it works out fine for them.
visiting halos fan
by 442 on Jan 15, 2009 1:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
it actually did
when he came up in April/May, he still had a very large hole in his swing, due to the fact that his hands were too high.
when the sent him back down, they told him to lower his hands and work on it throughout the season. i think we all saw the results of that in his minor league numbers. we also saw the product of that in his September numbers.
so really, his 2008 minor league season was quite valuable to him, as well as the team.
that being said, 2008 had better be his last minor league season.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 15, 2009 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe figgins will have a career year next year...
and the mariners will swoop in and give him a 5 year deal
by blochead on Jan 15, 2009 1:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
for 12 mil a season and a no release/trade clause
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope this rumor has finally DYED.
by Downing Rules on Jan 16, 2009 1:04 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Certainly
Since we signed Johnny Rivers, the idea of trading for Dye is no longer jermaine.
by George Kaplan on Jan 16, 2009 7:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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