The Ninja Speaks!
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jan 14, 2009 1:42 PM PST
Email
PrintDaily Pilot ran an interview with Reagins. Here is an excerpt:
Q: Why zero interest in free agent outfielder Manny Ramirez?
A: It’s two fold. We have a good outfield mix [with Vladimir Guerrero, Torii Hunter, Gary Matthews Jr., Reggie Willits and Rivera] and we want to give our younger players an opportunity to play. At some point, they have to step up when they get the opportunity. If you never give them the opportunity, they never can show what their potential could be.With Juan and with Kendry, Juan being in left field and Kendry being at first place, and having an extra outfielder to DH, there’s not room for a Manny Ramirez.
(I guess Ark can officially announce a successful campaign against Manny.)
Read the rest Here at the Daily Pilot website.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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As it is written...
…so shall it be done.
Thank you, Ninja.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Willits is a waste of a roster spot. What a joke.
You make bats like Manny’s fit.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
by hauldog on Jan 14, 2009 2:08 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
No Shizerdcream.
I know he was asked a question so he was obligated to respond, but c’mon, Ninja!
You are what you type.
I think you can make a strong argument against that statement.
Willits has “proven” just as much in AAA ball as, say, Morales has.
2006: .327/.448/.874
2008: .378/.452/.939
Willits spent all of 2007 with the Angels, posting a very respectable .293/.391/.735 earning himself ROY votes. He received two second place votes and 5 third place votes.
I would say the Angels need exactly what Willits offers when he has full playing time.
In 2008, just one year removed from his outstanding rookie year, Willits was displaced by an outfield with absolutely no room for him. The signing of Hunter basically bumped Willits to the horrible agony of “too valuable to send down but no room to start” zone.
Even with his extremely limited playing time (only 82 at-bats) he posed a .321 OBP.
That OBP of .321 puts him ahead of:
GMJ
Aybar
Rivera
S Rod
Mathis
Morales
Wood
I actually think with some playing time and some consecutive at-bats instead of pinch running duty for GA we could have an actual leadoff hitter. Figgins is completely expendable with a productive Willits, and with a reasonable arbitration avoidance contract agreement not too long ago, is very attractive to other teams.
I think Willits has shown if we give him a chance he can be very productive, not the other way around.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Missed a point and still cant edit posts....
Keep in mind his “horrible” stats from a year everyone wants to hang him about still show him being able to get on base more than some of last years starters and some starters from this coming year.
Wood, Rivera, S Rod, Aybar, and GMJ all had many more at bats than Willits and still got on base at a much lower clip.
Next year if this trend continues we might have an entire TEAM that has a OBP of .330 or LESS.
That is so unbelievably pathetic it makes me laugh.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
You know what, feel free to delete these posts, I am going to make a new thread about this.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
I edited your cut and paste
a small cut and paste is cool with a link, not a massive sampling. THANKS, this is agreat story for Angels fans.
no worries...
brevity has never been my strong suit.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jan 14, 2009 7:15 PM PST up reply actions
umm
and we want to give our younger players an opportunity to play.
Who, exactly? Terry Evans? Peter Bourjos?
With Juan and with Kendry, Juan being in left field and Kendry being at first place, and having an extra outfielder to DH, there’s not room for a Manny Ramirez.
Manny SHOULD be that “extra outfielder to DH”. That is not a great outfield by any means, offensively or defensively. Seriously, is there any better time to sign a player like Manny? With the upside that he has, I think the team can afford to overpay for him, especially since no other team seems to want him.
If Reagins really believes that signing Manny is out of the question because we have Gary Freakin Matthews and Reggie Willits in the way, I’ll have to say he is sadly misguided, from a baseball fan’s point of view. I agree with hauldog – you make changes in your organization for a player of Manny’s caliber.
visiting halos fan
Although im not completely pro-Manny
The ninja saying something does not mean that it is concrete. If the Angels say their out of the Manny race, his price goes down. If they decide to swoop in, his price will be lower.
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 14, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
I tend to think that an announcement like that means they aren’t going to bid on Scott Boras’ little ebay auction.
by Downing Rules on Jan 14, 2009 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
Not our style.
We’re not the Skankees. We don’t swoop. We don’t say we won’t do something, and then do it. We say we’ll do something (i.e. sign Teix), then don’t do it.
Don't mess with Teix-ass or Bor-ass!
by Rally Manatee on Jan 14, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't call it swooping
If Reagins didn’t say that there was a zero percent change of the trade, like he said about signing Manny. Zero percent. If he does “swoop” in then he’s a liar.
Terry Evans and Peter Bourjos? Huh?
Vlad, Torii, Rivera, Matthews, Willits, Figgins, Quinlan, Morales all play outfield and hit better than these 2 guys. I dont see how theres an open spot there for Evans or Bourjos?
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 14, 2009 6:05 PM PST up reply actions
i was just pointing out
that we have no legitimate outfield prospects at all when Reagins mentioned the younger players. And you know Quinlan and Morales aren’t going to be in the outfiield a whole lot.
visiting halos fan
ya but
all i’ll say is that we dont know how much the economy is factoring into the front office’s thought process. The contracts that came off the book made Teixeira a plausible exception, but thats because mark wasnt that much of a risk. He played 1st base, was younger, and took care of himself.
I dont think the team is comfortable taking any major risks in an unpredictable economy. What if Manny just began to decline from his 2008 Boston numbers? He certainly wouldnt be putting up his Dodgers numbers over a full season back in the AL, thats for sure. And he wants 22+ million for at least 3 years guaranteed. Would you be comfortable losing Vlad or Lackey to have a 38 year old manny ramirez on the team? we’d be back at square one being one piece short again.
Once Tex was off the board, I think the front office started on a new course that included protecting themselves against the economy which for all we know could lead to lower attendance, merchandise and concession revenues. This coupled with the A’s and Rangers’ prospects just makes developing Wood and Morales and reducing payroll a tad make more sense.
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 14, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions
well
he won’t get 3 years @ 22 mil, but arguing with numbers is silly. the decline factor is obviously higher with manny, and he will never be worth 22 million because of his defense and the fact that he has to DH. however, in terms of taking risks, i don’t see how Teixeira at 8 years, 190 mil (or whatever we were offering him) can be seen as a safer bet than Manny at 2 years, 35 mil. (i think that’s around what he will command – Dodgers offered him 2 years @ 45 mil, but he flat out declined it and the offer is reportedly off the table) If we were willing to chase Teixeira by offering him such ridiculous deals, then I’m wondering why not take a flier on Manny as well.
of course in the end it’s Reagins’ call, but I, with my limited understanding of how the team’s thought regarding the economy, still think it’s a good baseball move. I feel we really need to go for it in the next 2~3 years while Vlad and Hunter are still good.
visiting halos fan
um, 2 years/35 million isnt happening.
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 15, 2009 9:40 AM PST up reply actions
why not?
no team seems to be willing to offer anything at all, let alone my offer mentioned above. Sooner or later, Manny’s going to have to take something.
Unless he decides to retire, then whatever.
replacement level analysis
If its 2/35
the dodger fans will tear chavez ravine down with pitchforks
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
you speak as if this is a bad thing
replacement level analysis
haha true that
but they might change their management, and that would be a bad thing. Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones and Jason Schmidt keep it coming!
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
Well, Tex plays 1B and plays it very well
has never really been injured, not a risk in the clubhouse, never tanks plays, can be a face of the franchise because of his attitude, a good teammate, etc…
1B generally dont get injured much, and Tex takes great care of himself. Signing him would definitely be a risk, but he would likely not be on the DL much if ever. His per/year contract is less than mannys, and without the perks as well
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 6:48 PM PST up reply actions
i think it's more of
giving the young infielders (ie Wood, Morales, Aybar) the chance to play by keeping LF open so Figgy can move over there.
i really hope those kids are given every chance to succeed this season.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 14, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep..
One of my biggest fears is that the team gets antsy when Wood is hitting .185 in late April and they send him down and bring up Matt Brown just because he’s the next guy down the depth chart.
Morales doesn’t have a guy breathing down his neck, so he will probably get a longer leash…
Anyway, I hope they are given 500-550 AB’s to figure it out.
Jim Scully
Agreed
If they are dead set on playing them, then they should let them flail.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
right
Wood’s first month is probably going to be a bit rough (like Longoria’s was after his awesome start).
as long as he gets penciled in every day, we’ll see production
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 15, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
That is what I would like to see.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
I think that was the point
Signing an outfielder would block exactly zero “young” players. Manny is too expensive and too much drama. Why not Abreu? He can DH 5 times a week, provide a good slash line, steal some bases, and hes left handed, too!
but also
second worst fielding outfielder in baseball. with the outfield defense we have right now, no thank you.
visiting halos fan
and i bet you want to get either dye or manny...
people are talking about signing dye and ramirez, but are against abreu because we already have a packed outfield and he’s bad defensively? wtf?
i’ve been on the abreu bus since he became a free agent. i don’t understand how most people around here are against getting him, but ALL FOR getting manny or dye.
according to
UZR has him at -22.6, PMR has him at -11.6 (different scales, but they’re both pretty bad) as the 5th worst OF in baseball. Bill James’ Fielding Bible website is down right now, but from what I gather it projects him as similarly awful. We might be able to take the poor fielding if we had a stud CF like Beltran or someone, but Hunter isn’t the GG fielder that he used to be.
The reason that most people favor Manny is simply because he is a better hitter. Abreu is projected to have around a .365 wOBA (it’s on a scale parallel to OBP%, so 365 would be slightly above average); Manny seems to be around .400. If you want to look at past stats and make projections yourself, then go ahead – but it’s not that particularly close (even with Manny’s subpar 2007). I must admit that I think Manny is a bit worse at fielding than what the stats project because he did play in front of the Monster (UZR has him at -6.5), and Abreu does make up some of the difference with his baserunning, but it’s clear that Manny is the superior player.
We’re going to have to pretty much punt on OF defense next year anyway, so why not sign the better hitter? And as far as I’ve gathered, most people on HH were dead against signing Dye as well.
visiting halos fan
ahh, the joys of fangraphs
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't say our outfield is as bad as people keep saying
I mean sure they have Rivera and Guerrero, not so much defensive talent there but how many guys has Guerrero thrown out at the plate? Not to mention that they have Torii Hunter arguably the best center fielder in baseball and they also have GMJ- the only thing he’s been descent at is fielding. Although I would agree that it is lacking at least some defense that Manny will NEVER provide.
After watching GMJ play left and right last year...
…I think “descent” is an appropriate way of putting it.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Poor Interview
How does Mr Peñaloza get face time and Rev get stuck editing his links?
You are what you type.
so does this mean we aren't interested...
in signing manny?
Reagins is not the only one making the decisions here
The decision to pursue, or not pursue, Manny was not made singularly by Tony Reagins. Scioscia, Forsch, Sutherland, Bane, Flores, and, yes, perhaps even Stoneman have given their two cents on the matter. Reagins has said countless times that he listens to input from everybody before rendering a verdict.
Lastly – despite all this, remember, it’s Arte’s team, too – and he REALLY makes the final call. Although Arte has said that he admires Manny, obviously he doesn’t admire him that much.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
My argument: Why we should sign Manny..
I don’t understand the Ninja’s comments today regarding the lack of interest in signing Manny Ramirez.
The apparent reasoning for the lack of interest is that Manny would fill one of the outfield spots, or the DH spot, and either option would result in blocking a younger player, and the Halos believe that now is finally the time for some of the youngsters to put up or shut up.
This makes little sense when examined closely.
Just about all of the up and coming prospects the Ninja is referring to play the infield (Brandon Wood, Erick Aybar, Sean Rodriguez, Kendry Morales, and the like). While we have 5 outfielders (Vlad, Torii, Juan Gone, GMJ, and Reggie Willits), it’s quite clear that two of them (GMJ and Reggie) serve little real purpose on our 25 man roster, and the reality is that either of their presence should be zero reason why the ManRam shouldn’t be in the every day lineup.
Take those two out of the picture, and the four man outfield immediately becomes one of the most potent in the AL. One of them can DH similar to last year, and those guys will each get the occasional day off, which means that Mike Napoli can rest his knees occasionally and DH as well. One of the many benefits of this arrangement would be that our DH would no longer need to be a player like Figgy, Izzy, or Aybar; instead, our daily DH spot would be filled by a quality power bat, an essential in my opinion to score more runs on a daily basis.
Ninja and Arte need to sit Gary Mathews down right now, explain the situation, and tell him that it really is in everyone’s best interest, including Sarge’s, to go somewhere else to play ball. Arte needs to soak up quite a bit of the remaining money on that ridiculous contract, but Mr. Moreno can still consider it a savings compared to what Tex was gonna cost him by a country mile.
Willits? C’mon man, get serious.
Why does this need to happen? It’s simple. It has to happen because Ramirez is one of the few players in the game capable of dominating over a long stretch of a season. His prodigious offense can carry a team for weeks during the long slog of a summer. He is perhaps the most money player in all the MLB, demonstrating time and again the unique ability to hit for power and create huge numbers in the post season, a talent we need perhaps more than any other contender in the American League. He is an offensive machine, capable of inflicting more damage, producing more runs for his team, a hitter of such excellence that his potential contributions are simply too great to overlook.
Additionally, as we’ve all seen the past few winters, the premiere free agents do not pick the Halos to be their club of choice. We’ve lost out on the player we’ve targeted a couple of times now, and this winter more than ever demonstrates that the way the MLB works, the Yankees have the final say regarding any premiere free agent in the marketplace. This means that when a premiere FA IS available, and the Yankees and Red Sox are not in on that player, our Halos then have a solid opportunity to get that player if we overpay, just like we did to obtain Torii Hunter and Gary Mathews Junior. We overpay and we get the guy, as long as Scott “DH” (d/ck H@ad) Borasss doesn’t perform the patented triple cross on us. I’m thinking that since he already did that once to us just a couple of weeks ago that perhaps he’ll show a little mercy this time, particularly since he’d be saving face by getting Manny some of the bucks he’d promised him last summer, when he told Manny to go ahead and roll over, play dead, and get those option years removed from his contract.
Propose a deal in which options exist for both sides; this provides an element of comfort for both the player, if he feels in two years time he could get more he’d have the opportunity to reenter the marketplace, while our management could have a similar opportunity if we feel that Manny is not taking his obligations seriously enough. This element of flexibility should be a workable negotiation when you include dollars significantly higher than any other club is willing to offer.
Yes, the market place is currently on the down side regarding Ramirez, so this is perhaps the last opportunity to sign a premiere offensive superstar without giving up any players for him. Next year the biggest free agents are probably coming from our own team, and we’ll be competing to simply keep John Lackey and Vlad Guerrero on our roster. These factors make it mandatory to go get Ramirez, do it quickly, go to him and make him a very nice offer, tell him you need an answer in 72 hours, make our play and go solidify our already solid roster and make us a genuine threat to compete offensively with the best everyday lineups the American League will have to offer.
by goodvibe61 on Jan 14, 2009 11:35 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Manny is a Prick.
i’m sick of the sign Manny crap. i hope it doesn’t happen.
I concur.
And Vlad is our DH. That’s why we aren’t signing a big hitting, poor fielding outfielder.
exactly
Vlad should be the primary DH so we can get the most of his bat. If we put someone like willits into the RF spot, then we not only get production from the DH, but our outfield defense is dramatically better, and willits isnt as bad as most people think he is, he just got unlucky for one year. Career .397 OBP in the minors is excellent
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with goodvibe61.
Well written.
(Standing up and clapping)
wow my thoughts exactly...
oh and you forgot to mention that Vlad is actually a no.5 hitter at this point in his career, so our lineup is going to suck b@lls this year with hunter another no.5 and figgins a no.9 taking up the 1,3,4 slots…ughhhh
Batt izzy @ clean up. (this is a joke, mind you.)
by Downing Rules on Jan 16, 2009 12:57 AM PST up reply actions
Old creaky knees Guerrero isn't getting any better...
His age and + knee problems + his non-existent plate discipline will have him producing like a true no. 5 in the not too distant future. How much longer will it be before vladdy can no longer foul off that FB down and away?
His CHONE projection for 09 is .303/.377/.519
in comparison Aramis Ramirez the cubs no.4 and sometimes no.5 hitter projects .291/.366/.524
The difference being Ramirez is 2 yrs younger and is surrounded by a loaded lineup that includes soriano, lee, bradley, soto
How does that make you feel about our lineup next year?
I almost forgot...
vladdy has to play rf on his surgically repaired knees
ramirez gets to sit his fat ass at 3rd
who is more likely to suffer a season ending surgery and which of the 2 teams would be more able to survive the loss of such a bat?
p.s. CUBS BLOW!!!
Jose Guillen
In 2004, Jose Guillen was the most productive Angel hitter not named Vladimir Guerrero. He batted .294, hit 27 homers, and drove in 104 runs (.851 OPS). Incidentally, that makes him the last Angel hitter not named Vladimir Guerrero to hit more than 25 HR or drive in more than 100 runs in a single season. In the time since, the only Angel to even sniff that kind of an offensive performance over a full season was Juan Rivera in 2006.
In mid-September, the Angels were grinding out a tight race with the A’s, hoping for another shot in October. And even though Guillen was the second-best hitter on the team, and even though he was having the best season for an Angel hitter not named Vlad Guerrero in the last five years, he was still not good enough to avoid punishment. A team in serious contention suspending its second-best hitter, without pay, for the rest of the season, and the entire post-season? How shocking is that? They replaced him Jeff DaVanon and faxed the rest his contract to Washington. When is the last time anyone can think of something like that happening?
Actually, it wasn’t that long ago. Last July, in fact. A certain team paid a certain other team to take a certain player off their hands, because they couldn’t stand him any more. And this guy is no Jose Guillen. Guillen has had a mediocre career, and in 2004, he was on ‘roids. But this guy is a certain Hall of Famer. This guy has the 25th highest OPS+ of all time, and a .949 OPS in the post-season. He’s hit more home runs in October than anyone, ever. And on a day when they were three games behind in their division, the Boston Red Sox of all people, the team with the most hyper-tense, histrionic, and high-anxiety fan base in all professional sports, dumped this guy, still playing well, and still with two option years left on his contract. Incredible.
Now, Jose Guillen is just a minor punk. Manny has got away with a lot more than Jose ever will because he’s so damn good with a piece of lumber in his hands. How is he going to behave, when two years and $40 million weren’t enough for him in Boston? Is he going to be much happier when he only gets $5 or $10 million over the same period of time (if he gets that at all)? Moreno and Scioscia have already shown they won’t hesitate to discipline even their most critical players at the most critical times. How would Manny go over?
I think that’s at least 50% of what’s going through management’s collective head about Manny. Maybe another 25% is money, and the remaining 25% is commitment to young talent. They’re nice guys, so when someone asks, they answer “money” or “young talent.” The Red Sox aren’t such nice guys, so they did everything they could to publicize Manny’s bad behavior, just to watch his little power play fail. But Arte is no Machiavelli, and I don’t think he wants anywhere within 30 miles of that (though he might have to deal with him playing just about that far up the 5). If $23 million a year was too much for an ideal corporate shill like Teixeira, $25 million is way too much for a guy whose mental and emotional maturity don’t extend much beyond lifting weights, watching cartoons, and playing video games. Not bad hobbies in themselves, but you get the idea.
by Suboptimal on Jan 15, 2009 3:07 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
I just want to say
without getting on my knees, you are my favorite commenter here. This post is point on, plus you’ve pointed out to me something I didn’t realize…the Angels haven’t had a hitter other than Vlad hit 25 HR in the last 5 seasons?!? Geesh!
I appreciate your posts. Thanks
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
Agreed, one of my favorite posters here
I dont want to choose, but really im glad that you found your way on to HH
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
We can win without Manny.
Easily. So why would we even dream of adding his pathetic attitude to our classy team? So we can win in the postseason? I know that’s what many are thinking. Well, where is the guarantee that Manny would even still be ON the team by then? Or still be willing to play. Maybe he would be unhappy by that point. Maybe he won’t like the clubhouse spread so he’ll go on automatic pilot. Maybe we’ll run out of traveling secretaries by then and he’ll have nobody to throw to the ground.
He’s an ass. I’m glad the FO realizes it. And knows that we can get where we need to go without him.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
The west. Don't wexpect to win much else. I hope you are making frequent sacrifices to the baseball gods.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
This team is a paper tiger
They will win the west. Nothing more.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
What team are you a fan of?
I’m a fan of the Angels.
Despite that though, I can see beyond the following thought: “If we don’t sign Manny Ramirez, we can’t win the World Series.”
That’s really what you’re saying. You are not allowing for…good seasons from the kids…bounce back years from Vladdy, Rivera, and others…continued excellence of the rotation and bullpen…a mid-season trade for offense a la Teixeira…any of a number of other x-factors including but not limited to the possibility that bad and/or surprising things happen to OTHER teams too.
If you think it’s a foregone conclusion that the Yankees and the Red Sox will beat us, why don’t you go root for them?
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Kool-Aid
Despite that though, I can see beyond the following thought: "If we don’t sign Manny Ramirez, we can’t win the World Series."
This is not my opinion.
My opinion is we have a world class pitching staff, why waste it?
The Angels roster is like dropping a 4 banger in a Ferrari.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
I dont' get it
why do you even think like this? its one thing if we were in the middle of the 09 season and it wasn’t going good but dude relax. WS are won on the field not on paper.
Well the offseason is the time to make changes to your lineup.
I am not satisfied with the Angels changes.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
well
damn thats too bad isn’t. it is what it is, if you don’t like it then go like Ark said root for the yanks or redsox.
Fuck you.
I’ll root for who I like. I can complain. Go shove your pom poms up your ass and take your Rah Rah bullshit somewhere else.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
by hauldog on Jan 15, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
look
fans like you will never be satisfied unless they do things your way. you think your smarter then the FO but you aren’t. so you can complain all you want. thats cool. i have np with you displaying your displeasure with the teams off-season.
if the team does well i’m sure your going to be happy. maybe the first one to admit you were wrong about the moves in the off season. i guess only one team really wins at the end of the season and if its not the Angels i’m sure your going to be the one on here saying “i knew it”. we should have, could have done this differently and we would have won. whatever.
like i said, it is what it is. like it or don’t but no reason to act like you know more then anyone else.
Quit being a smug little asshole
Not everyone has to be positive 100% of the time. There are affordable options out there for the Angels to improve their offense. I am well within my right to comment on why I so not understand why they are not being explored. This is a blog, where one comes to discuss Angels baseball, not everyone has to be rainbows and puppy dog tales like you. Great you are positive and upbeat. Does that make you a better fan? Nope not even close.
Futhermore, who the fuck are you to tell me to root for the Red Sox or the Yankees? Douche bag.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
For the sake of clarity...
…am I the “douche bag” or is HALO the “douche bag.” We both think you’re an insufferable twit, so I just wanted to be sure I understood you.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
He reiterated it.
I’d rather be a twit than a mindless sheep like you two. One of which is a 12 year old that lives in Irvine
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
smug
don’t get pissed because unsatisfied fan. i’m sorry the Angels can’t win the WS every year for you. i’m sorry they don’t sign the players you want on the team. even if you think they need a another bat going into the year obviously their going in diff direction then what you want. damn if you, damn if you don’t.
maybe they were explored and decided its better to wait. who knows. no one will ever know except for the people that make the decisions.
yeah i am positive when it comes to the Angels. i appreciate having a team that is finally winning. of course i want them to win WS every year like anyone else but i also know its hard. as long as they play hard give it everything they have thats all i can ask for as a fan.
I never asked to or expected to win the World Series every year
Stop putting stupid statements into my mouth.
Clearly you are not familiar with the Angels organizational philosophy. They build from within, and accentuate that with free agent signing. I am merely commenting on signings that I feel would be help fill out the roster. If you do not like my ideas, you do not have to respond.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Act like I know more than anyone else?
Look at any of the projections for the Angels offense they are pathetic. I am not claiming to know more than anyone else. Get over yourself.
I have not claimed to know more than the front office. I do not claim to and could not possibly know all of the factors that affect the Angels’ off season maneuvers.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Heh. Well argued.
Actually, the off-season is NOT the only time to make changes to the team. Many teams do it during the regular season as well. You may have noticed that WE did it last year.
It really doesn’t matter if YOU are satisfied. I don’t think they are taking that into account.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Because the Angels are famous for the midseason trades? HA HA HA.
Are farm system is loaded and primed to pick up a big bat at the deadline. Good one.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Are farm system...
…ain’t bad. But again, I’m speaking as a fan of the team. I may be putting too much value on S-Rod, Adenhart, Green, and others.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Typo my bad. Our. Multitasking.
Well if we trade the high level prospects that will leave the big league club vulnerable to injuries and hamper our ability to fill needs from within. Hence I would rather sign a free agent
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
For the sake of argument...
…and I don’t know why I’m arguing, I guess I have nothing better to do…it sounds to me like you are saying that trades are bad, FA signings are good, Manny is the best FA out there, therefore we should sign Manny.
I get it. I promise, I do. I just believe that Manny’s downside is far greater than his upside.
I also think that we can disagree without being jerks.
I also think that you have failed to address my other points…that this team could go all the way with good rookie performances, a couple of bounce-back years, and an incredible pitching staff. To say nothing of the possibility of other teams not meeting their own high expectations. Have faith, brother. Have faith.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
I do not take faith into account when discussing strengths and weaknesses
It really does not enter into the equation.
Sure if ALL those things go the Angels way they can win.
Trades are not bad. Given the state of our farm system and the low number of advanced prospects, I am not real stoked on making a trade.
I am saying we need a bat. It is that simple. That is all I am saying.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
They can win. They will win.
Here’s what’s missing from your argument: the understanding that ANY team can win in the postseason. Most teams can’t even dream of getting there. We can not only dream it, we have every right to expect it. Once we’re there, it’s entirely possible for us to come out on the good side of things.
We would be a better team with a good bat. Nobody disagrees with that. What people disagree with is whether or not Manny is that bat.
We would have a better offense with Manny…if, of course, he decided to play that day. We would NOT have a better TEAM with Manny. He is a lousy teammate.
Believe it or not, it is possible for us to disagree on this matter without getting our feelings hurt.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
I do not buy into the crapshoot theory Billy.
I am not missing. I just don’t subscribe to it.
Mr. Welch has beat this one into the ground.
My feelings were never hurt.
Your opinion that he is a lousy teammate does not mirror that of people who ACTUALLY played with Manny. The end.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Right back at ya.
The difference being I am not one who engaged the other.
I also did not say “I am going to impose a moratorium on Manny talk” when it is not my blog. Good look buddy.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
I was just discussing this today with a friend.
Any team can win in the postseason.
And for the Angels, what it will take to win is about three consecutive weeks of extremely good luck. Day in, day out, good luck. Because as they have clearly demonstrated over the past several playoff series now, their offense is incapable of getting the job done.
Now we have lost Teixeira, we have lost GA, we have not replaced those bats, so our already piddling offense is going to be even less than what it was. And to say that Erick Aybar, Sean Rodriguez, and Brandon Wood are all going to play so well in the majors day in, day out in their first full season to make up for those losses seems either incredibly short sighted or ridiculously optimistic.
Right now i’m hopoing we win the west, i really am. I’m not 100 percent sold that it’s automatic; i think our pitching staff last year had several career type years, and expecting them to simply repeat that is asking quite a bit. Meanwhile, the offense is mediocre. However, if we do happen to win the division I don’t see anything in the past 3 months that indicates anything different is gonna happen once the regular season ends.
every team needs luck in the postseason
Unlike 2004 or 2007, we were actually only a couple of breaks away from winning the series.
I agree, the division has become the priority, with all three teams making significant strides to catch us. Once you make the playoffs, you can’t do a lot except for just hoping for the best.
replacement level analysis
The Angels raised ticket prices in a down economy.
They did nothing to improve their roster. I see nothing wrong with expressing my displeasure with the offseason.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Another great argument.
You may also have noticed that other businesses…like, say, milk distributors…raised their prices in a “down economy.” It’s how they deal with the down-ness.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
You may have noticed most teams froze their ticket prices.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
I really, really think you'd be happier with a different team.
I hear the Pirates are looking for fans.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
I am happy you feel that way.
Perhaps you should take a side of reality with your Kool-Aid. Fanboy.
It is okay to be not be satisfied all of the time. Not a tough concept.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Yes. I am a fanboy.
That’s why I visit this blog. And I do enjoy Kool-Aid. I prefer cherry.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Wow
Were fans, were not brown nosers. We have every right to take issues with the team. We have no problem doing it on gameday threads calling out players and managers. We all want to see the team get better, and there are different opinions. No need to take any of this personally or anything.
While I personally think that while we need offense, Manny is not the way to go because of his many shortcomings, I recognize the merits of having him on our team. If indeed his defense was worse because of the monster, and he can stay in line, and have a 50/50 split with Vlad for DH time, then Manny would be a good signing provided he doesnt ask for the moon. But signing manny basically closes the door on figgins or wood or aybar, and I think all three are valuable to the team.
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The funny thing is
I remember two-three offseasons ago (post-2006) when I was the one wigging out like this and you were telling me to relax.
Or was that higdog?
Light Up That Halo!
I doubt that me. I'll go with Higdog.
I am not wigging out. I think Ark and Halos attempts to basically censor others is comical at best.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
I appreciate the compliments
Every hour I spend commenting on a blog is an hour I could have spent on my dissertation. But if I am making some positive contribution to the discussion here, then it’s worth it to me. I’ll try to keep it up. Thanks.
Incidentally, I’ve recently become a fan of the “Angels FO” Youtube miniseries. Very clever, I wouldn’t mind seeing it continue.
John Lackey called
He said “Reagins forget about my extension. Nothing was done to address the offense.”
The window is closing.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
by hauldog on Jan 15, 2009 11:10 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Hopefully guys will step up
To surprise Lackey with AWESOMENESS.
I did hear it said, though—on MLBTR, I think—that in late October Lackey was telling friends he expects to have an extension signed before Opening Day. So there’s that.
Light Up That Halo!
I'll bet that does not happen.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
The KC Royals are looking for fans
I bet their front office won’t piss you off half as much as the Angels’ FO does.
Why not protect yourself against a future stroke and see if you look good in blue? Sometimes it’s royal blue and sometimes its the retro powder blue, but it is still blue. I think the red color of the Angels’ site angry ups your blood, to paraphrase Satch. Blue can be so much more calming. It will be like watching the baseball equivalent of a Compoz pill.
You even know one of their players—Jose Guillen. It’s just like moving to a new school and already having a friend there.
by George Kaplan on Jan 15, 2009 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rats!
I KNEW I should have read all the new comments before replying myself. Well played, sir.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
My original comment was Rec'd. Obviously I am not the only one that feels this way.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
That was me
I agreed with the “the window is closing” part—but I don’t think Lackey has already decided not to re-sign. I think he’ll probably not re-sign before the season starts, absent a guarantee from the FO that some big 2009-2010 F.A. bat will be coming to Anaheim. In the meantime, I think he’ll take a long, hard look at how things are going during the season and depending on what he thinks, I think he’ll sign sometime around late May to mid-season—kind of like Escobar did a few years ago (I think?).
Lackey’s not stupid—he knows he’s on a perennial contender. If he gets reassurance that the club is doing everything it can to win, he’ll probably be fine.
Light Up That Halo!
"The Window is closing" is my main concern
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Yeah
I agree, too, that the FO has dug itself into a hole in the “re-sign Lackey” sweepstakes by not doing anything. Yet the FO’s strategy can’t revolve around appeasing one player whom they’d like to retain and thus making dramatic changes. I’m sure Lackey realizes this. I’m also confident that he sees the club did what it could to make some moves and is seriously invested in improving the team. He’d probably like Arte Moreno to get his head out of his a$$ about thinking “no player is worth more than $160 million” (remember three years ago, when it was “no player is worth more than $120 million”? [Though I’m glad we didn’t get Alfonso Soriano that offseason.]), but that should be a minor concern to him at this point…
Light Up That Halo!
When appeasing a player means improve the offense it is not that bad of an idea
Going forward there is nothing to show Lackey he is not going to continue losing games where he allows 2 runs. I am very concerned he is going to walk.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
I'm scared he will too
Why wouldn’t he test the FA waters? Ken Rosenthal thinks the Yankees will scoop him up next offseason amid a thin FA pitcher market.
Again, that's probably true, BUT
IF guys come together this season and put up a massively positive run differential, maybe he’ll think differently. You’re right, though, in that if Lackey hasn’t re-signed by October 1 and the Halos then go one and done in the playoffs again, he very well could be outta here…or he’ll sign with Scott Boras and make Reagins’ life a living h-ll to re-sign him at that point.
Light Up That Halo!
While i agree with you about improving teh offense
not at a great expense of the defense. We have one of the best defensive SS in the league and we want to throw him away. We have a solid fielding 3Bman who is a great leadoff man and we want a power hitter. We lost two amazing 1B defenders in Kotch and U-haul, and we need solid infield D to make up for that. Aybar needs to stay at SS. Wood should play 3B and figgins should bolster our outfield defense and speed. Doing all that could very well make our team better than if we sign/trade a defensively challenged OF with a monster bat (no one person in particular)
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 7:11 PM PST up reply actions
This whole attitude is bullshit
Just because one is unhappy with the teams direction does not mean they should find a new team.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
by hauldog on Jan 15, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree 100%
This is ridiculous. What, we can’t criticize what’ been happening? That’s BS. Root for another team? Dude, I was born in 1961, I’ve lived here all my life, why would I want to root for somebody else?
People always joke that my posts often do not reflect my “goodvibe” name here. There’s some truth to that, it pains me when the Halos lose. Pains me. I want the team to improve. I don’t see what’s wrong with that.
I have made the goodvibe comment numerous times.
I hear you I watch pretty much every game, and do not appreciate being told to root for the unmentionables.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
It was really a joke, but...
there was a point there as well.
An observer can accuse the Angels organization for being many things, but “inconsistent” really isn’t one of them. Since Moreno took the reins, the management and vision of the team was from a three-headed monster of Moreno, Stoneman and Scioscia, and since Stoneman retired, his appointed and groomed successor Reagins carries on in his stead.
This is a team with a meticulous long-range plan, one reviewed and updated in meetings during the preseason, during mid-season and after the season ends. This is a team which defines its offseason goals, makes a plan and executes it, but doesn’t go for impulse buys or consolation acquisitions. If we recall the Winter after the 2005 season, the team made a strong bid for Paul Konerko, who took less money to stay with the White Sox (as an aside—who isn’t thrilled in 2009 that he turned us down?—sometimes the deals which seem so important don’t work out the way one expects them to). But the team didn’t go out and spend money on another, lesser player, just to show the fans it had brought home a trophy from the Winter meetings. Instead, Kotch was given a chance and his D made the whole infield better.
This is a team with one eye on its budget, which is a component of the overall plan: Why (for example) sign Dunn, Abreu or Manny to a long-term deal when the goal might be Holliday next Winter? IF we find GMJ an improved player in 2009, his no-trade evaporates at the end of this season and he might be dealt for another component, opening up a slot for another OF player like Holliday. We don’t know all that management has in its strategy, but in a scenario like that, it makes zero sense to sign Dunn or Abreu to a multiyear deal, just to show the fans the team had made a change.
If the plan is to set aside money to sign Lackey or Vlad to deals past 2009, then those dollars need to be set aside in future budget plans. It isn’t just about the 2009 season, but also about 2010-2012. It is about making sure the team remains financially viable for the future.
There is nothing wrong with criticizing the team. What is curious, though, is criticizing the front office for acting precisely as it has for the past 5 years. That’s like living in Southern California and complaining that there is too much sunshine—your opinion is valid, but you can’t anticipate that anything will change due to the complaints.
That was really the meta-message with “find another team”—it wasn’t that critcism wouldn’t be tolerated, but that you couldn’t possibly expect the Angels organization to function any differently than it has in the past, with near-metronomic precision. Remember, I mentioned that three-headed monster? Well Moreno isn’t selling, Reagins is young and in good health and Scioscia is now under contract through 2018—this is one place in America where Change isn’t happening.
If you expect differently, then this front office will only drive you nuts in the future. For THAT reason, it was suggested a different team might bring you more satisfaction.
by George Kaplan on Jan 16, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
In case you did not notice George
I replyed to someone else. So whether or not you were joking when you told me to root for the Royals is moot.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Now I'm sad...
I was really hoping we’d be BFF. You know, sleepovers, braid each other’s hair, tell ghost stories, make prank calls in the middle of the night…
But I guess it is not to be. Your destiny is to be miserable. Can’t help you, sorry.
by George Kaplan on Jan 16, 2009 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
I am not even close to miserable.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Of course not
I get the impression that this is your natural state.
So why is it you expect the Angels to function differently from the way the team has for the past 5 years? And why is it you seem to think that complaining will yield some sort of acceptable result?
I’m not seeking to silence you, just trying to understand why you would expend such energy on what is an otherwise fruitless cause.
by George Kaplan on Jan 16, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
Not really much energy is being expeneded
How would improving the team be behaving differently than the Angels have over the last 5 years? Not sure I am following you? The Angels organizational philosophy is to build from within and accentuate that with free agent signings.
Aside from that they have admitted they were a “big bat” short over the last three seasons. That big bat, which was acquired via trade, just left via free agency. So that admitted need for a “big bat” is still present.
This is blog where people come to discuss the Angels. Not everything has to be rainbows, and puppy dog tails. There are ups and downs that come with being a fan. Not everyone is going to be happy at all times.
By no means do I think that complaining is going to get Tony Reagins to change his mind. I am not that naive. You expressing your satisfaction in the team is no different than me expressing my dissatisfaction with the offseason. They are both opinions, which we are well within our rights to post.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Sorry to jump into this "lovefest", but...
I agree with hauldog about this off season. I’m disappointed too. I’m disappointed that this coming season is shaping up to be a semi-rebuilding year following a season I thought was going to be finished with a world series championship. The club did everything right during the season…(well, not everything, remember GMJ getting playing time with Rivera on the bench)…from getting Teix to having Santana and Saunders stepping it up. It’s just disappointing to not see the team build on that success.
This is probably where I should not stick my nose into the discussion, but I’m going to anyway. Hauldog has made over 6000 comments to this site. That’s huge! Ark Angel and Halo 86 have been here for a couple months. I’m not saying you two are wrong, or you haven’t earned the right to comment (everyone has that right), but it bugs me that you’re jumping all over a respected member of this community the way you are. You are showing a total lack of respect to a person who has earned the right to voice his opinion without being chastised for it. Disagree with him all you want, but at least be respectfull about it. I come here everyday and read every post/comment. I may not comment much, but I do know what’s going on, and well, it just bugs me.
Ark Angel, I’ve enjoyed your previous posts and comments, hopefully this isn’t typical of your future involvement.
Halo_86, I’m still on the fence with you. But I suppose that really doesn’t matter.
Not trying to be a dick, just sticking up for a fellow HH’er (not that he needs me to stick up for him).
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
Not only all in this thread
but all in every other thread too.
Why?
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
so
your saying just because Hauldog has been here longer has many more post that he has the right to just be uncivil?
I did not start the name calling nor did I question ones allegiance.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
nor did i, and i never questioned your allegiance
i was just getting the vibe your really unhappy about the situation and thought the Yanks or Redsox like Ark said would be more fitting for you.
That was not your sentiment dude
well
damn thats too bad isn’t. it is what it is, if you don’t like it then go like Ark said root for the yanks or redsox.
by HALO_86 on Jan 15, 2009 11:42 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
sentiment
maybe sentiment gets lost in words. but i didn’t write that in a malicious tone.
it was more like hey whats done is done. lets move on.
Move on and root for the Yankeess or Red Sox
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
did you read what Ark wrote
i didn’t quote him word for word.
Thanks WiHaloFan
I am not bothered by their comments, and I will play along.
I do appreciate your kind words.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
George...
…it took me a couple of days to realize that hauldog is on his own planet…engaging with him brings only misery and confusion. Proceed at your own risk.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Wake up
I am on my own planet? You are running a 24/7 anti Manny media blitz.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
In case you did not notice hauldog
I replyed to someone else.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Listen
Quit taking shots at me.
I like Manny
You Don’t
I feel it is okay to complain about the current state of affairs
You don’t
Neither of us is right or wrong, but if you look at the thread you start the name calling and clearly I am not above joining in.
Point being, I will respond to your useless name calling. So do not complain when I do.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
I really think you have me confused with someone else.
I’m okay with disagreeing on Manny. I’m not fond of complaining but if you choose to do so, so be it. Don’t expect to complain on a fan blog and not have people respond though.
But as far as the thread goes, if you trace it back, you’ll find that YOU replied to ME first. You said you hoped I made frequent sacrifices to the baseball gods. You told me I drank Kool-Aid. And then you called me a douche-bag. I don’t think you’ll find that I called you any names…although I was more than snide and did repeat your typos…yeah, that was beneath me. Sorry.
I think your “F You” was directed at HALO…which is between the two of you.
I’ll let the rest of it drop. But, yeah, I’ll continue to defend my position that Manny is bad for our team. Just as I’m sure you’ll continue to defend your position that he’s good for it. Please note that I do NOT deny that Manny is a phenomenal offensive talent. He is.
(I did go back and look…and I saw that I referred to you as an “insufferable twit.” Sorry. That does qualify as name-calling. I think it was a knee-jerk reaction to being called a douche-bag.)
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
I expect people to respond
I expect them to not have some bush league response like root for another team. That is so lame.
This is truly the only thing that has offended me in the entire exchange.
Sorry for the names I called you as well.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
and perhaps you are right.
I probably melted you and Halos 86 into one poster at this point.
stupid 1.5 day arguments
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Irony:
“Just because one is unhappy with the teams direction does not mean they should find a new team.”
Written while, in general, defending Manny.
(That was just an observation. FWIW, I would not be unhappy with a Manny signing.)
by Stirrups on Jan 16, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
And i would have to agree based on Lackey's other comments
at the end of the extremely quick playoff loss, in which he said he’d be “keeping an eye out on the changes to the offense”. I also recall Big John Stud having a rad case of Stink Eye the last couple of games, you could literally see the disgust coming off him from the inability of the team to produce any offense whatsoever.
There have been a few discussions here on whether he’ll stay or go, and the consensus seemed to be that he’ll be gone at the end of the year. I’m praying that isn’t the case.
i got a better idea...
i don’t know if this has been discussed yet but how about we sign manny?
This offseason thread
Is starting to remind me of a Jerry Springer episode
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
by halofolife on Jan 15, 2009 3:37 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
and a bad one at that
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 15, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed and Rec'd
I almost regret writing this fan post now.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jan 17, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
Not to sound overly pessimistic but
How exactly have we improved ourselves this offseason?
visiting halos fan
I never said that we couldn't win
The goal of a team’s management is to give the team the best chance that it can to actually win. Realistically, I don’t think the front office has done anything at all to help us win a championship. The AL West will not be the pushover it was last year – Oakland added Holliday and Giambi, Seattle has the best defensive outfield in baseball (by far) with the Putz trade, and Texas is coming up fast with that ridiculous farm system of theirs. Meanwhile, the Angels have been content to sit around, while (apparently) failing to see the many flaws that the team has right now. It just frustrates me sometimes.
visiting halos fan
Here's the thing.
And I never meant to imply that you thought we couldn’t win. That was just my comment.
The thing is, the front office IS and HAS BEEN trying to make improvements. I really don’t see how they could help the fact that Teixeira didn’t want to play for us. They offered a ton of money. He said no. There are players that simply don’t want to play in the AL…or on the West Coast…or whatever. The FO can’t help that.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
They are most definitely NOT making improvements
Teixeira was never part of my argument. Besides, even if you don’t sign the best player available, you try to do the best with what you can.
Here’s one thing they can do : Sign Manny.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Jan 15, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Here are some other things they can do as well
such as improving their defense by moving figgins to the outfield (LF/RF), moving Vlad to DH, Wood at 3B and keeping Aybar at SS.
Offense isnt everything. While its nice, the Angels are built around Pitching and Defense, and they should try to stick to it.
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 7:14 PM PST up reply actions
I totally agree with you
I’m the biggest fan of defense on Earth, but I’m thinking that the potential gained by replacing our current DH’s bat with Manny’s bat (and just living with Vlad in RF) will be a greater net gain than the potential gained by replacing Vlad’s defense in RF with Chone’s defense while playing Rivera/Matthews at DH.
Besides, if the purpose is to show Lackey that you’re committed to winning, then I think signing Manny Ramirez would be a much more effective way to do so. No disrespect, but I don’t think Lackey’s a big fan of UZR.
replacement level analysis
I doubt lackey knows what UZR is
but making the team better should be the priority. If we win the division again, it also sends a strong message. Also, i figure Vlad as DH will hit better than Vlad in RF because he doesnt have to deal with injuries and whatnot. A 50/50 split of DH time might work because Vlad gets to rest, and play the field which he loves to do, while we get Mannys bat in the lineup and minimize his defense. The only problem would be what happens when like Napoli needs to DH? Manny-Torii-Vlad doesnt really sound appetizing unless its that order in the lineup. Also if Torii needs to rest, Willits in CF is decent, but not amazing.
If Manny decides he doesnt want to play, or gets injured or something, then wed have 30 mil+ of useless OFers on our bench. But you cant not sign someone because of that.
But what happens to figgins? Aybar needs to play SS, and that doesnt really leave a spot for him assuming Wood plays 3B. If he can net a quality prospect or a live arm then id be for it, but I dont think his market is that hot right now
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
well
I guess the “Vlad needs to rest” argument has some merit, but I don’t think that’s big of an issue. At this point of his career, I think Vlad will be content with just playing two days a week in the field or so. Manny-Torii-Vlad does sound pretty awful, but then what’s our alternative? Rivera-Torii-Vlad? GMJ-Torii-Vlad? (I’m not completely sold on GMJ as a fielder) As I said earlier, I’d be willing to sacrifice the loss in defense if we’re getting Manny’s bat in the lineup. And about your argument that Torii needs to rest, that isn’t changed whether we sign Manny or not.
And I wouldn’t worry about Figgins’ playing time too much – I’d bet money that he gets over 400 AB anyway, with injuries and whatnot.
replacement level analysis
Torii needing rest would change a bit if he needs the DH spot.
We would have two terrible fielders (Vlad and Manny) and one averagish fielder (Willits/GMJ). And where would Rivera go? There is not enough room for Rivera, Vlad, and Manny in the OF. One has to DH at all times. This really hampers flexibility.
And how much defense are we talking about sacrificing?
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 8:25 PM PST up reply actions
Noone can really project Manny's defense
because he has played in front of Fenway which is a whole different monster (sorry), but he is pretty bad. Around -20 for UZR (he had an unusually good season last year at -6, but I’ll take the 3 years before that where he was consistently in the -20 range). Vlad isn’t a spring chicken either, and I’ll say he’s -10. So a loss of around 10 plays, which is around 8 runs i think, or probably less than a run. I honestly can’t say for Figgins, as his RF sample size is too small, but he has been at around Vlad’s level in CF, and because RF is easier to play, let’s call him -5. That’s 5 plays, or around half a win better than Vlad, meaning that the scenario you suggested above will probably get the team around 1-2 wins.
Now, for the offense : under my scenario, Manny will be replacing either Rivera, Figgins, Willits, or GMJ (a combination of the four). They 4 players all project to be a shade below league average, with GMJ slightly worse. So let’s call them -5 runs below average. Manny is +35 runs on his own. That’s a 40 run difference, or 4 wins. We could assume that Manny would decline a bit, but who’s to say that Manny won’t go batsh*t crazy and produce monster numbers?
There are probably some other factors that I’m missing, so if anyone else is familiar with this system, please feel free to correct me. But from what I’ve seen from my amateur math, signing Manny seems to be a step forward for this team.
replacement level analysis
442...
I may be a product of Southern California’s public school system… but I think I get what you’re saying. The bottom line, up front, Manny makes us better. I couldn’t agree with you more.
All these mathematical equations… Jesus, what happened to fielding percentages, batting averages, RBi’s, ERA’s, WHIP’s? Common baseball terms everyone can understand.
Not directed at 442, believe me, I agree with you. Get off the mathematical equations and just ask yourself, okay, we lost a guy in GA who hit .293BA, 15HR, 84RBI’s, .325OBP, 66 runs, and had a fielding percentage of 1.000. Pretty amazing defense. Manny hit .332BA, 37HR, 121RBI’s, .430OBP, 102 runs, and had a fielding percentage of .985.
To me, you’re replacing great numbers with okay numbers. It makes us better right away… it’s a no brainer. Please don’t start with “Oh but his attitude”. You don’t know the guy… get off it. Sign him, and let’s go win.
Manny
you don’t know guy either. so who knows how his attitude affects the clubhouse. what he did at the end in Boston should show you what can do when he’s not happy.
Have "faith" in Scioscia to keep him happy. I do.
What he did in Boston and LA for the other 7.75 out of 8 years shows you what he can do when he IS happy.
Leaving the fishbowl will help him. He has career milestones to accumulate, he will stay focused.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
No guy but...
I know his mom, we go bowling on Tuesdays….
Basically, what I’m saying is, “Who gives a shit” who knows or doesn’t know Manny… he makes us better and that’s what I want. Is to get better.
matt
anaheim angels asked me to justify the gains that we’d be getting by signing manny. i didn’t see any other way to do that, than to say “he’s a good player”.
heh, if the number thing bothers you, i’m sorry. but i think you made my point exactly – no matter how you shake it, manny’s going to help us. i would love to see how anyone would argue against that.
replacement level analysis
No, no, no...
The numbers don’t bother me, I just don’t understand them. It’s my fault. I just like the old school stats 442. Good stuff though, thank you.
valid points
i guess after seeing manny drop his bat after the walkoff ive been completely biased. I definitely see how he makes our team better. I really do. And if his price dropped to 2/35 or so i would definitely say go for him. I still just dont like the defense with manny in, especially if we move aybar to the bench and put wood at SS. I think it could really hurt Saunders and Weavers development where they are afraid of contact because the defense is bad at best, and atrocious at worse. Fielding might have lost us that series as much as our offense did, especially with all of our botched plays
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 16, 2009 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
2 yrs
if he’s willing to sign for only 2 yrs and 35. thats a risk worth taking. he rejected 2/45 from the Dodgers, i can’t see him signing for less.
That 10 mil makes a difference?
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
2/35
is easier to get rid of then 3 or 4 yrs @20-25/yr
I was asking about 2/35 vs 2/45
3 or 4 years was not in the conversation.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
Lackey
do you really think Lackey isn’t happy with the direction of the team is going? besides winning a WS, the team is doing the best it can to build a franchise thats going win hopefully for a very long time. if he honestly can’t see that, then i think he will leave regardless. i think most of us in here can agree we are going in the right direction. you don’t build a team to keep 1 player happy.
Yes I really think that. He SAID it.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
umm
no he didn’t say it. it was a rumor from some writer who heard it from “some people close to him”
That was not your sentiment
well
damn thats too bad isn’t. it is what it is, if you don’t like it then go like Ark said root for the yanks or redsox.
by HALO_86 on Jan 15, 2009 11:42 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
It is a direct quote
Lackey said he would wait to sign an extension until he saw what the team was doing with the offense.
I can’t find the link.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
he said it right after the boston series
After Lackey gave up two runs and lost Game 1, he pointed the finger at his offense. After he gave up two runs and got no decision in Game 4, he warned against that line of questioning.
"Don’t stir the pot," he said.
Yet, when the questioning turned to whether he would wait to see what the Angels did with their offense this winter before considering an extension, Lackey answered with one word.
"Absolutely," he said.
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 16, 2009 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
I would think so, just looking at this thread
i think most of us in here can agree we are going in the right direction.
replacement level analysis
We have not improved at all
The eternal optimist would have you believe that doesn’t matter.
There is still time. I remain hopeful the Angels add a bat.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
I hope so too
Luckily, there aren’t any awful contracts left out there for us to sign this year, unlike past offseasons.
visiting halos fan
Looking at note I wrote myself
It says not to engage. You are the MAN.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Thanks George Michael.
Cause you gotta have faith!
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
I'd take Manny
I never wanted A-Rod, because, although he’s a numbers machine, he’s a loser.
Manny is a kook, no doubt. About as flakey as they come. But he’s a winner. He would help the team win (more).
That said, nothing long term. So it won’t happen.
I doubt that A-Rod is a great teammate...
…but I’ve never seen him refuse to play…or hustle…or push people to the ground who didn’t do him favors.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Let's play a game
Team A : Great teammates, inspirational, leader, winners™ :
David Eckstein, Darin Erstad, Derek Jeter
Team B : Crappy teammates, doesn’t hustle, urinates in your locker when you’re not looking :
Manny Ramirez, Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez
I’m not saying that team chemistry, leadership, etc. doesn’t matter. It does. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be the crux of your argument when you’re trying to argue that we shouldn’t sign one of the greatest hitters in baseball history.
visiting halos fan
Response to
The Clyde’s thing about ARod, actually.
visiting halos fan
Manny is Kelly Leak...
a problem child, but I would not mind him on our team. I’d take my chances short term (like 2 years) because if he becomes a distraction, you could ride it out.
A-Rod is the kind of dude you knew in college who had everything going for him, but nobody really wanted to hang with him because he brought nothing interesting to the table. Just socially awkward.
Bonds is just an a-hole Softball Guy. No matter how good he is, you wouldn’t want him on your softball team.
and then
a-rod’s the one making the millions and you wish you were his friend.
replacement level analysis
Rings:
Manny 2. One WS MVP
A Rod 0……….
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
And here's another thing I'm absolutely sick and tired of:
If people don’t want to stare reality in the face and recognize how great an offensive player Manny Ramirez is, at least stop with this ridiculous talk about:
If he wants to play, or
If he feels like playing today or tomorrow, or
If he decides he has an injury when he doesn’t, or
If he flakes out and takes the weekend off,
And on and on. I’m friggin sick of it.
Tell you what: Manny Ramirez played in Boston for aproximately 7 full seasons. How many games did he miss because he did not feel like playing, or did any of the other things that critics keep harping on? Did he miss more than a half dozen ballgames over that time span?
I am not condoning that kind of behavior. What I AM saying that this argument is a complete load of garbage. It is 99 percent a creation of the media. Teammates have said over and over how good of a teammate, how dedicated to his craft Ramirez is.
He wanted out of those option years. That’s it. If you give HIM options he will not feel trapped. But please, if nothing else, please stop with the BS about how Ramirez doesn’t show up. Because in the grand scheme, in the long run, the guy not only shows up, he frigging RAKES. RAKES like nobody’s business.
So show some stones and come up with something a little bit better than that people. He’s never pulled a Guillen or a Mondesi and told manager to FO. Yeah, he got in a scrape with a travel manager. Is that all you’ve got? Seriously? Don’t people realize that not only is the guy the deadliest weapon in the game, but that he would have a tremendous impact on broadening the team’s fanbase? Ramirez is one of about 4 players in the game when if you’re watching a game on TV, and it’s not your team playing, when Manny is gonna come up to the plate you’re gonna stick around to watch that AB. Plain, simple. It’s not rocket science. Go ask a Dodger fan about him. Go ask a Red Sox fan who watched their club fail to come up big in game 7 of the ALCS with Manny not there to make the difference.
This BS about “if he decides to play” and the like is weak. WEAK. It’s a fabrication.
by goodvibe61 on Jan 15, 2009 8:27 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Well, to add a little bit
Jason Bay did hit decently in the playoffs/tampa series
.292/.469/.458 v Tampa
.341/.471/.634 total
then again
Manny v Cubs and Phillies
.525/.660/1.07 (figures approx)
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 15, 2009 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
The whole thing has been blown completely out of proportion by Boston. These are guys who issued death threats (exaggerating) on Brian Giles for not wanting to move away from his family at 38 years of age.
Not to mention that Manny is famous for absolutely killing himself in training.
replacement level analysis
Goodvibe61
Dude… haha… preach on. I’ve been trying to reach everyone too. Great post and couldn’t agree more. Well said. Sign the damn ManRam!
Really? Final answer?
A “scrape with the travel manager”? He pushed a 64 year old man to the ground because the man couldn’t promise him to come up with 16 free tickets—about twice the normal player allotment—to the game being played that day (meaning, little advance warning). Manny was making $20M in 2008, but he became enraged when the team’s traveling secretary couldn’t promise him a total of 16 free tickets hours before the game was to be played. It certainly wouldn’t do for Manny to have to buy tickets for friends out of pocket, after all.
“Did he miss more than a half-dozen games during [seven seasons]?” Yes. More to the point are the incidents like 7/6/08, when Manny, still irked by being fined in the incident above, goes in to pinch hit against Mo Rivera and the Yankees—top of the 9th, score tied, go-ahead run on 3rd and two outs—and doesn’t take the bat off his shoulder.
It was at the end of that same month of July when the Yankees and Sox met again, and Manny took himself out of the lineup, with the same mysterious knee injury, missing two of the three games in that series, allowing the Yankees to gain ground on the Sox in the AL East standings.
Too recent? Then consider 8/29-31/03, when Manny was “too sick” with a “throat infection”, but was spotted in the hotel bar during the series. The opponent in the series? The Yankees. He blew off the appointment with the doctor. A few days later, he refused the manager’s request for him to go in to pinch hit.
Or July 2007, when he tried to force a trade by refusing to play in a game against Seattle, even though injuries had left the roster short.
The common denominator here—and the above is by no means a comprehensive list—is that these are times when Manny let his teammates down in order to satisfy his own interests, whatever they might have been at the time. This is more than faking an injury to miss a meaningless game, these were times when his teammates needed him to play.
If you want that player on your team, that’s fine. Nobody disputes his ability to turn a game around with a single swing. But don’t deny the facts by calling the incidents “fabrications”.
by George Kaplan on Jan 16, 2009 9:41 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
He could have been fooled
"Did he miss more than a half-dozen games during [seven seasons]?" Yes. More to the point are the incidents like 7/6/08, when Manny, still irked by being fined in the incident above, goes in to pinch hit against Mo Rivera and the Yankees—top of the 9th, score tied, go-ahead run on 3rd and two outs—and doesn’t take the bat off his shoulder.
There is no evidence he did this on purpose. Boston vilifies ex Sux.
This is the worst offseason in years. But hey we got Colorado's closer!
OK then...
The mean old Boston media is biased and anti-Manny. Whatever. What about the story as written in the NY Times?
Rivera’s first pitch was inside, at 94 miles an hour. His second was outside at the same speed. So was the third, at 93. All were called for strikes, and the threat passed. Francona disagreed with the suggestion that Ramirez took a passive approach, but Rivera was surprised.
"Definitely, I was surprised he didn’t take the bat off his shoulder," Rivera said.
"I don’t know what he was thinking. That’s Manny."
So let’s review: Mo Rivera has faced Manny scores of times over the years and even he was surprised Manny didn’t swing the bat once. Top of the 9th, runner on third, score tied, two outs, and not even an attempt at a hack. Manny, the fearless slugger, standing at the plate with the game on the line, and he becomes a spectator instead of a player.
I am sure it was just coincidental to the fact Manny was pissed at his team’s management at that time for having been fined for assault on a 64 year old man.
by George Kaplan on Jan 17, 2009 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Funny. Heh
The NY times is part owner of the Boston Red Sox.
I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?
Thanks
…for the best whack-job conspiracy theory of the week. I guess the Times also manufactured the quote from Mo Rivera? Just one more effort by the Red Sox to trash Manny, right?
You’re in luck—I believe Ralphs has a sale on Reynolds Wrap through Tuesday.
by George Kaplan on Jan 18, 2009 7:08 PM PST up reply actions
Regardless of the source
My point is the the Boston FO has drug their former stars names through the mud when they leave. It does not matter who they leak it to.
I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?
plus
even if you somehow assume that he did it on purpose, you can’t compare it to the 7 years of godly hitting that preceded it.
replacement level analysis
What a bold stand you take for character in sports!
As long as the guy is a stud most of the time, he can behave in a way which approaches throwing a game and all is forgiven.
After all, the Red Sox were humiliating him with that disrespectful salary of $20M. I am certain it would never happen again, as long as the salary was higher.
by George Kaplan on Jan 17, 2009 9:19 PM PST up reply actions
Did I ever say that it was excusable?
a) You can’t prove it
b) Re: your last statement – why would it happen again? Do you honestly think he was doing that because he wanted more money? Do you think Manny is just an asshole who acts like one just because he wants to? Obviously, I do not know the man, so I cannot say anything either, but if he was, then I’m betting that he could not have had the Major League career that he has had.
c) He’s still going to help the team no matter what. With the production that he has put out over the last few years, it’s absolutely asinine to think that he won’t help the team. The argument that you propose has a place, but it is nowhere close to offsetting the benefits that he will bring to the team and our toothless lineup.
replacement level analysis
Yes, you did
even if you somehow assume that he did it on purpose, you can’t compare it to the 7 years of godly hitting that preceded it.
By your estimation, his production outweighs any damage he might have done by letting his teammates down. You’re excusing his behavior because of his potential to help your team.
The bottom line is that he ultimately destroyed the goodwill he had among his teammates on the Red Sox. They didn’t hate him, but saw him to be unreliable in situations where he was needed, and that he made himself a distraction during crucial times in a pennant race.
And yes, he did force his exit from the Red Sox. Any sentient being can see that much.
by George Kaplan on Jan 18, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions
It's not excusable on a personal level
My point is that despite these supposed shortcomings, signing him is still a good decision for the team.
replacement level analysis
Manny
hey 442 obviously i know how i feel about Manny and i’m on the other side. so i know were in different sides on the issue of signing Manny.
only think i want to ask about your statements above regards to B. so why did he do what he did towards the end of his run with the Redsox? if he was that unhappy then so be it. he signed the contract. no one forced him to sign that contract. he’s a professional. he should have acted like one. there are better ways to deal with problems then the way he finished it. anyone thats productive in this league will most likely keep a job. i’m sure there are players who aren’t as good as Manny that have done things as bad as him who are given 2nd and 3rd chances
by HALO_86 on Jan 18, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd assume it's because he had asked to be traded ever since 2005
replacement level analysis
Except for those times he said he DIDN'T want to be traded
like on July 31, 2005.
This whole move to get his contract voided in July 08 was an attempt to leverage himself a bigger payday for more years before he was two years older, a free agent after the Sox exercised the team options for 2009 and 2010. Obviously, he would have more value as a free agent at 36 (37 in May) than at 38/39 as a player in 2011.
That is why a two-year deal is essentially pointless to Manny—he already had that, and he insisted it be voided as a condition of the trade to the Dodgers. He wants a longer period of security, as well as more than $20M per year. If he is going to be “happy”, then the deal would need to be 3-4 years at minimum (he has said he wants 6), along with an annualized value for more than $20M per season.
by George Kaplan on Jan 18, 2009 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
Coincidentally he said that after they did NOT trade him
I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?
Your point being...what?
That he conveniently regained his love for the Sox when the trade to the Mets didn’t happen?
That he is a fickle headcase?
And ultimately what does any of that have to do with anything? The point which matters is that Manny has worked hard for years against his former team to get out of Boston, while being one of the highest-paid players in the game and generally beloved by the Fenway crowd. In the process he showed he was capable of inexcusable, unprofessional behavior detrimental to his team.
Makes sense that this was a one-time only situation—each time it happened—and couldn’t possibly happen again. No, this time, at age 36, Manny has found peace and maturity and will be nothing but a model employee for the duration of this next deal.
Keep dreaming.
by George Kaplan on Jan 18, 2009 9:04 PM PST up reply actions
honestly
WHO CARES. our lineup sucks.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Jan 18, 2009 9:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The 'dog cares
That is why he doesn’t miss an opportunity to declare his man love for ManRam. It doesn’t matter how badly Manny has acted towards his team, his teammates and his fans, the ‘dog just wants Manny’s bat on our team.
It is reminiscent of the man who has an affair with a married woman, breaks up her marriage, gets married to her, then is stunned when she cheats on him. Manny will do what he did in Boston all over again to his new employer if he figures it will get him what he wants.
The Red Sox put up with Manny’s lies—such as reporting late to Spring Training because of “family matters”, then finding out a few days later that the “family matters” involved his prior obligation to appear at a classic car auction for a $300K fee, or his “injuries” which were never medically demonstrable. They kept forgiving and forgetting because they had that first ring in 2004 and then again in 2007. But at some point, organizational self-respect had to come into play, and Manny kept pushing and pushing until he got what he wanted—release from his contract and free agency after 2008.
But of course that couldn’t possibly happen here, right? Once freed from the hell of a supportive fan base in Boston, and the ghetto of a $20M a year salary, he’ll finally be happy and 100% dedicated to his new employer, right?
Well, hell, let’s just give him what he wants and sign him for 5 years guaranteed. Talk about a can’t-miss proposal. Obviously, this time will be different from before. A kid from the Dominican with his wife and kids in Florida—where they must stay to maintain residency for tax reasons—will be deliriously happy in Anaheim.
by George Kaplan on Jan 19, 2009 3:30 AM PST up reply actions
You are like the dude that never gets married for fear of being cheated on.
I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?
I am sure you were hoping for something witty...
but the reality is that I chose right the first time by picking someone with class and character, which meant I wouldn’t have to worry about some unexpected action by her later.
Kind of like considering the behavior of someone you’re thinking of signing to a contract to pay them tens of millions of dollars.
by George Kaplan on Jan 20, 2009 6:57 PM PST up reply actions
Wow
Yeah, let’s give Figgins, Quinlan and Willits each 10 years / 200MM deals. We know for sure that they won’t cheat on us. Did you know Willits led the AL last year with an incredible 10.45 GF/DFT? (Grit Factor / Determination for Team) (Incidentally, that number was the highest in the AL since Eckstein’s ridiculous 13.52 season in 2002 – Manny, of course, had a -2.54 last year, only higher than Garret Anderson. What a bum.)
You know what the difference between those guys mentioned above and Manny is? Manny is GOOD. CRAZY GOOD. I don’t see how you can disprove this in any way, shape or form. If you’re afraid to sign a guy (who seems to be a discount at this point in the market) because of problems that he MIGHT have, then you’re never going to win championships.
They kept forgiving and forgetting because they had that first ring in 2004 and then again in 2007.
How is this a bad thing? I don’t think anyone will have a problem if he misses a day of spring training as long as he gives them two World Championships in the long run. Is there a problem with his integrity? Absolutely. Is he still a bat-shit retardedly good baseball player who will help us win? Even more so.
It is reminiscent of the man who has an affair with a married woman, breaks up her marriage, gets married to her, then is stunned when she cheats on him.
Your analogy is interesting, except it’s based on the wrong premise. Manny’s a one night stand that will give you the time of your life.
replacement level analysis
unless of course that night produces a baby
that lasts 5 or 6 years and costs 120-140 million
(which is basically what boras wants)
If Manny can be had for about 2/40, i say do it. But more than 3 years and or 65 million and i become very hesitant
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 19, 2009 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
We can sign him for a LOT less than 5/120
replacement level analysis
hope so
but just sayin…
Boras wont be pleased if he doesnt get manny at least 3 years at more than 20 M, because otherwise opting out was pointless
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 19, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You get it
Why are some others so remarkably clueless?
by George Kaplan on Jan 20, 2009 7:01 PM PST up reply actions
How about that time
In 2006 when he sat himself down for September with an exaggerated/fabricated knee problem because he was pissed off?
Light Up That Halo!
Calling it quits on the Manny Ramirez squabble
I am over fighting about Manny. I, like many people on here are in favor for signing Manny. Some are not. I’m just over the stupid bickering. Agree to disagree. I will not post anything further on this subject.
Matt, it could be worse.
We could be bickering mercilessly over some player 1/50th the value of a Manny. For example, we could be going all jackass over a guy like, say, Reggie Willts.
Oh. Wait.
by Stirrups on Jan 18, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I do not think the "Manny faction" is impressed by him puching the travel secretary
I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?
Oh. Well, I bet Reggie could watch three straight fastballs from Mariano Rivera with the game on the line and never take his bat off his shoulder.
Maybe that will get him some support.
Manny and money
For all those who believe Manny can be signed for as few as two years and annualized salaries in the low $20Ms, here is some info from John Heyman in SI:
While the Dodgers have held to their two-year, $45 million offer for Manny Ramirez, the star slugger is still seeking a deal of at least twice that in length.
Word is, Ramirez has told the Dodgers that he wants a deal for four or five years, and it’s believed that he’s looking to be paid in the range of $25 million a year. Going by those numbers, and assuming Ramirez would take a four-year contract, the sides appear to be at least $55 million apart.
Naturally, wanting and getting remain two different things. What works in the favor of the pursuing team is that there is so little interest from other teams.
Sheets and money
From the MLB.com Rangers’ site:
The Rangers are the only team that has publicly stated interest in Sheets, but the process continues to move slowly. The Rangers are still reviewing Sheets’ medical history, and they are still reluctant to do a multiyear contract. Sheets is looking for at least a two-year deal while the Rangers so far have shown a willingness to do just one year with a possible club option.
There is uncertainty if that will get the job done, and club officials said nothing is imminent.
“He’s looking for a multiyear deal,” Ryan said. “That probably comes down to the medical review and what [owner Tom Hicks’] position will be.”
[edit]
“Obviously, the reason he is still unsigned is because of his history,” Ryan said. “All ballclubs are a little cautious in their actions right now. I’m sure he’ll settle in with somebody.”
The New York Mets are believed to have interest but right now appear to be focused on left-hander Oliver Perez. There doesn’t seem to be any other competition.
Dodgers close to passing on Manny
From the LA Times website this afternoon.
Money quote:
McCourt said he did not foresee Ramirez getting a long-term contract and expressed frustration with Scott Boras, the agent for Ramirez.
“His agent is challenging to work with,” said McCourt, speaking at the City of Hope as part of the Dodgers’ community caravan. "It’s been over three months, and [we’re] two weeks away from spring training, and we still have not received a specific number from the agent.
“At some point in time, it’s time to move on.”
Furthermore:
Boras, believed to be asking four or five years at more than $25 million per year, was not immediately available for comment. He previously has dismissed the Dodgers’ contentions that he refuses to provide a counteroffer.
“We have let the Dodgers know what Manny’s position is,” Boras said recently. “They are fully aware of the terms he feels are fair.”
Boras has said he is negotiating with several clubs. No club beyond the Dodgers has acknowledged making an offer to Ramirez, and the San Francisco Giants are the only other club even to acknowledge interest.
Again, Boras insists that there are mystery teams involved in bidding on Manny—but how many teams are capable of committing (never mind "willing") to $25M a year guaranteed for 4-5 years?
If you wonder why the Angels aren’t chasing Manny, this might be a good clue. Boras does his job well when he represents his clients’ interest, but one wonders what is to be gained by insisting on a contract of $100M to $125M over 4-5 years in a down economy unprecedented in the lives of most fans. The GMs aren’t playing along and the longer it goes on, the more it serves to paint Manny as a Hessian.
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