Ok, so basically all over different fanposts there are huge debates over whether we should sign Manny. I think we should get a general consensus of HH and have one place where we can all fight over it. Before the vote, here are the Pros and Cons courtesy of our very own HH posters. Feel free to add your own thoughts as well.
The apparent reasoning for the lack of interest is that Manny would fill one of the outfield spots, or the DH spot, and either option would result in blocking a younger player, and the Halos believe that now is finally the time for some of the youngsters to put up or shut up.
While we have 5 outfielders (Vlad, Torii, Juan Gone, GMJ, and Reggie Willits), it’s quite clear that two of them (GMJ and Reggie) serve little real purpose on our 25 man roster, and the reality is that either of their presence should be zero reason why the ManRam shouldn’t be in the every day lineup.
Take those two out of the picture, and the four man outfield immediately becomes one of the most potent in the AL. One of them can DH similar to last year, and those guys will each get the occasional day off, which means that Mike Napoli can rest his knees occasionally and DH as well. One of the many benefits of this arrangement would be that our DH would no longer need to be a player like Figgy, Izzy, or Aybar; instead, our daily DH spot would be filled by a quality power bat, an essential in my opinion to score more runs on a daily basis.
Why does this need to happen? It’s simple. It has to happen because Ramirez is one of the few players in the game capable of dominating over a long stretch of a season. His prodigious offense can carry a team for weeks during the long slog of a summer. He is perhaps the most money player in all the MLB, demonstrating time and again the unique ability to hit for power and create huge numbers in the post season, a talent we need perhaps more than any other contender in the American League. He is an offensive machine, capable of inflicting more damage, producing more runs for his team, a hitter of such excellence that his potential contributions are simply too great to overlook.
Propose a deal in which options exist for both sides; this provides an element of comfort for both the player, if he feels in two years time he could get more he’d have the opportunity to reenter the marketplace, while our management could have a similar opportunity if we feel that Manny is not taking his obligations seriously enough. This element of flexibility should be a workable negotiation when you include dollars significantly higher than any other club is willing to offer.
Yes, the market place is currently on the down side regarding Ramirez, so this is perhaps the last opportunity to sign a premiere offensive superstar without giving up any players for him. Next year the biggest free agents are probably coming from our own team, and we’ll be competing to simply keep John Lackey [who has expressed interest leaving if the Angels do not improve their offense] and Vlad Guerrero on our roster. These factors make it mandatory to go get Ramirez, do it quickly, go to him and make him a very nice offer, tell him you need an answer in 72 hours, make our play and go solidify our already solid roster and make us a genuine threat to compete offensively with the best everyday lineups the American League will have to offer.
In 2004, Jose Guillen was the most productive Angel hitter not named Vladimir Guerrero. In mid-September, the Angels were grinding out a tight race with the A’s, hoping for another shot in October. And even though Guillen was the second-best hitter on the team, and even though he was having the best season for an Angel hitter not named Vlad Guerrero in the last five years, he was still not good enough to avoid punishment. A team in serious contention suspending its second-best hitter, without pay, for the rest of the season, and the entire post-season? How shocking is that? They replaced him Jeff DaVanon and faxed the rest his contract to Washington. When is the last time anyone can think of something like that happening?
Actually, it wasn’t that long ago. Last July, in fact. A certain team paid a certain other team to take a certain player off their hands, because they couldn’t stand him any more. And this guy is no Jose Guillen. Guillen has had a mediocre career, and in 2004, he was on ‘roids. But this guy is a certain Hall of Famer. This guy has the 25th highest OPS+ of all time, and a .949 OPS in the post-season. He’s hit more home runs in October than anyone, ever. And on a day when they were three games behind in their division, the Boston Red Sox of all people, the team with the most hyper-tense, histrionic, and high-anxiety fan base in all professional sports, dumped this guy, still playing well, and still with two option years left on his contract. Incredible.
Now, Jose Guillen is just a minor punk. Manny has got away with a lot more than Jose ever will because he’s so damn good with a piece of lumber in his hands. How is he going to behave, when two years and $40 million weren’t enough for him in Boston? Is he going to be much happier when he only gets $5 or $10 million over the same period of time (if he gets that at all)? Moreno and Scioscia have already shown they won’t hesitate to discipline even their most critical players at the most critical times. How would Manny go over?
I think that’s at least 50% of what’s going through management’s collective head about Manny. Maybe another 25% is money, and the remaining 25% is commitment to young talent. They’re nice guys, so when someone asks, they answer “money” or “young talent.” The Red Sox aren’t such nice guys, so they did everything they could to publicize Manny’s bad behavior, just to watch his little power play fail. But Arte is no Machiavelli, and I don’t think he wants anywhere within 30 miles of that (though he might have to deal with him playing just about that far up the 5). If $23 million a year was too much for an ideal corporate shill like Teixeira, $25 million is way too much for a guy whose mental and emotional maturity don’t extend much beyond lifting weights, watching cartoons, and playing video games. Not bad hobbies in themselves, but you get the idea.
To sum up in a quick list PRO-
- Half of Fame caliber bat added
- We dont really have any prospects that hes blocking
- This would show Lackey we are serious, and improves our chances of resigning him
- He could be had for a bargain relatively speaking because of his limited interest
- If Vlad and or Rivera or Morales or Wood do not produce great seasons, our offense looks pathetic. Manny would make our offense at least good, and can carry a team for extended periods of time.
- Sticking it to the Doyers
- His Postseason numbers are amazing, and could help us win the WS.
- We can fit him into the lineup without really displacing anyone (except Figgins or Wood)
- We need to win now while Vlad and Torii are still young(ish)
- The Angels need to stay ahead of the upswing As and Rangers and their crazy good prospects coming up the minors.
- He IS the big bat we've needed since 2002
- The Angels do not put up with nonsense, no matter how good the player is. Manny might not last long before Scoscia gets sick of him.
- We could sign a cheaper option such as Adam Dunn or Bobby Abreu
- He has incredibly bad defense, like crazy bad.
- There is no guarantee that the only way to win the WS is to sign Manny (the playoffs might be a crapshoot).
- An Corner OF/DH combo of Rivera/Manny/Vlad hampers flexibility of the DH (nobody can use it, not Torii or Naps on their off days)
- Manny could very well quit during the season or next
- We are already a classy organization, we do not need to add Manny.
- We can likely win the division without Manny
- Paying Manny that much money will cause Vlad/Lackey to seek more for themselves, as they are the faces of the franchise and could make less combined than Manny in one season
- Vlad needs DH time to rest up and stay healthy and potent with the bat.
- Boras client
Please explain your position, and let the sparks fly!
Should we sign Manny?
ABSOLUTELY YES, NO MATTER THE COST! (55 votes)
Yes, for about 2/45 or so (63 votes)
Yes, but only with many mutual options (13 votes)
Only if we can get him for 2/35 or so (28 votes)
NOOOOOOO! (17 votes)
Im committed to the youth revolution (13 votes)
I dont want an AARP outfield that cant field (6 votes)
I HATE MANNY! (4 votes)
Manny will quit on us, so no (24 votes)
Leaning towards yes (15 votes)
Leaning towards no (4 votes)
I really cant decide, it seems so good and so bad (16 votes)
I trust Ninja and Arte to make the right decision (28 votes)
His defense is too bad, so no (0 votes)
Moot point, we are not signing him (54 votes)
No (22 votes)
362 total votes