Is Soth the problem...?
by blochead on Jan 20, 2009 2:57 PM PST
Email
PrintI was reading a hilarious Sam Miller post where he tears the Boston Globe's Nick Carfado a new one and I came across a posting by JACK that blames a lot of our postseason woes on Soth over-managing and making bad/weird moves especially during crucial points.
My first thought is "Well we can't place blame on one individual, especially the manager", but he offers some solid examples
He offers:
Willits playing a terrible RF in the postseason, but he had only 12 putouts there all year.
Aybar not being good at squeezing to begin with, so why attempt it then?
Josh Paul catching Myspacescobar in 05 when he had only caught 7 batters for him that entire season
Amezega starting game 1 of the 04 ALDS(is there a reason for this one?)
I'll add one more: Playing "rally killer" Kendrick instead of S. Rodriguez when Howie was coming off an injury.
I don't want to start an anti-Soth thread and I certainly don't think it's all Soth's fault, but I have to admit he does put people in strange situations that have led to failure. What do you guys think? If you have more examples to add please do.
*I am fairly new to HH so i apologize if i have rehashed an old thread and for rekindling some bad memories*
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
66 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Amezaga hit a key grand slam in the 3rd last game of the 2004 season
The Angels and the A’s entered that game tied with identical records of 90-69. In the top of the 6th with 2 outs, the Angels had the bases loaded and a 4-0 lead. But Amezaga and his beyond pathetic line of .155/.202/.202 come up to bat. He lofted a fly ball to right field which unbelievably cleared the high wall in Oakland. 8-0 lead, yada, yada, yada, Angels celebrate winning the AL West the next day.
"Playoffs?? Don’t talk about — playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game!"
by Fan Since 1981 on Jan 20, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
Oddly, I wouldn't trade Sosh for anything
But his “squeeze” was like the hack at the end of the blackjack table who keeps taking the dealer’s bust card.
Every Angel fan was feeling pretty good holding pat looking at the dealer’s 16, then Sosh takes his bust card and the dealer turns a 5. Ballgame.
Willits batting clean-up was kinda funny, though.
hack at the end of the blackjack table who keeps taking the dealer’s bust card
That was funny.
In Soth I trust.
by Downing Rules on Jan 24, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
5 "incidents"
over 9 years. I’ll take that.
Willits playing a terrible RF in the postseason, but he had only 12 putouts there all year. Willits played 22 games in RF during 2008, 12 putouts, not really a valid augument.
“Aybar not being good at squeezing to begin with, so why attempt it then?” The Angels preach bunting in the minors and the players are expected to execute. Right or wrong decision: Aybar did not execute
“Josh Paul catching Myspacescobar in 05 when he had only caught 7 batters for him that entire season” This is just lame, it was a bad call on the ump (who shall not be named).
Amezega starting game 1 of the 04 ALDS Kennedy didn’t play because he hurt his knee a week or so before the playoffs
“Playing "rally killer” Kendrick instead of S. Rodriguez when Howie was coming off an injury." Kendricks potential for gets hits was better than S. Rodriguez. Hindsight is 20-20. If S. Rodriguez had played the series and had a crappy one, people would be screaming because of that.
by Seik1177 on Jan 20, 2009 3:47 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Kendrick
Drew played even less towards the end of the year and he killed us.
I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?
Yes, but
Kendrick had no postseason experience. Drew did—he’d had 58 prior postseason ABs to get a feel for how it worked. Kendrick didn’t—he’d had 10. That does not excuse Kendrick’s shitty performance as there are plenty of postseason newbies who’ve raked (Halos 2002 are a perfect example), but it does help when comparing the two players.
Light Up That Halo!
vet vs. young kid
experience is highly valuable in the MLB
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Jan 20, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Meaning...?
I’m not excusing Kendrick’s performance in the ALDS, I’m just pointing out that it might not be fair to compare him to Drew, given the former’s extensive previous postseason experience. Who knows, Drew may have known how to adjust better to the postseason coming off of an injury, whereas Kendrick had to get his swing back from his injury and figure out how to hit in the postseason.
Light Up That Halo!
I brought up Drew with regard to people wondering if Kendrick would regain his timing.
I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?
Kendrick looked terrible
after 2 games it was obvious he wasn’t in top form and I can’t help but wonder how things would have turned out if his spot in the lineup had been taken by S. ROD or Wood.sigh
It always plays out differently in my mind.
We'll DO IT LIVE!!!!!
He won me a World Series...
so I don’t really care what you say about him, he’s the best we have ever had.
by Wytelitning on Jan 20, 2009 4:33 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
would you prefer the 90s Angles????
Just sayin’… winning is better than losing… Bobby Cox is better than Terry Collins.
good points
But sometimes, sometimes, he kind feels like, I don’t know, a Gene Mauch 2.0.
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Specializing in maniac-ball since 2000
by halofan4life on Jan 21, 2009 6:35 AM PST up reply actions
Whither "Soth?"
I’m still in the process of catching onto the site’s nicknames. I’d love a complete account of each one and its origin.
Also, whither “Ninja?”
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
soth = typo that caught on pretty quickly, since none of us can spell his name right on the first try (lol)
ninja = tony reagins’ nickname earned by signing torii hunter at del taco, swooping in and coming out of nowhere. further strengthened by other signings and even the uhaul trade that take everybody by surprise.
"Here we go baby, 'bout f***'n' time!"
I think it was The Limey who came up with ninja
search the top corner for Ninja and/or Soth and go to the comments section as far back as you can go
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Jan 20, 2009 9:13 PM PST up reply actions
Mistakes are Easy to Recognize in Hindsight
I think if we looked at our 2002 WS run we could find some questionable calls that turned out pretty good. Two off the top of my head:
Starting a rookie in Game 7 (Lackey)
Using an untested 20 year old rookie named Frankie Rodriguez in important situations on numerous occasions.
Admittedly though, I will always see that suicide squeeze as a bonehead move on Soth. One out, Fenway in silence and the fastest guy on the team on third. shit…a slow groundball to 2B could’ve scored him.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Jan 20, 2009 6:44 PM PST reply actions
Not his problem
You have to take a chances in the postseason! We all seem to forget that K-Rod was also a huge risk in the postseason. We all know how that payed off. You honestly can’t blame someone for 5 mistakes in 9 years. Man BryanHarvey just beat me but I’ll restate the point
umm random thought
Has it occured to anyone that the Angels in recent years are very much like the red sux (OH GOD!! i just threw up all over my keyboard) from years past that suffered some really weird and painful defeats. Just without the douchieness or sense of entitlement that comes with being a sux fan. Winning the next one will be that much sweeter.(That felt really dirty but I had to say it)
We'll DO IT LIVE!!!!!
ya, no team wins it every year
we just won a title 5 seasons ago, its not really a drought. Would you rather win 1 WS and follow it with 4 division titles or win 2 rings in 10 years and have the other 8 seasons be garbage like the florida marlins?
Call me crazy, but when i look back on 100 win seasons, i remember the 6 months of winning and fun. I dont forget April-September just because of 3 or 4 games in October. Ya, losing sucks hard. But dont let it overshadow the fact that the Angels have become one of the premiere franchises in the sport. The fact we’re even playing in October almost every year should make us happy. There was a time that was extremely rare for this franchise…
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 20, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
1000 recs
6 months of great baseball and 100 wins>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1 week and 3 losses
"Playoffs?? Don’t talk about — playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game!"
by Fan Since 1981 on Jan 21, 2009 5:31 AM PST up reply actions
The only unexcusable one would be Kendrick
The rest are meh. Although I’m the biggest fan of statistics and is willing to put a poor series to small sample size, Kendrick just looked not ready to play baseball during that series. He was swinging at balls in the dirt that were three or four inches off the plate.
Although I do believe that a manager has a limited role in determining a team’s performance, compared to sports like football or soccer, Scioscia does kinda put the pressure on himself by making his weird decisions. (Aybar squeeze, etc) Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn’t.
Also, fuck Doug Eddings.
replacement level analysis
live by the sword, die by the sword
we cant cheer the double steals and 1st to 3rds one day and boo the caught stealings the next.
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 20, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The umps were calling them off the plate
the only difference between Howie’s K’s and the rest of the Angels was that Howie went down swinging.
He looked lost because he wasn’t ready for all that BS from the chief umps in Boston.
HK definitely looked done in by the pressure in the playoffs
ive never seen a player look so lost at the plate
by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 20, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
Please note
That I was merely reproducing a posting I read on the OC Reg site that I found interesting because I had never thought of it as a possible explanation for some of our WTF!? losses.
Not trying to sound ungrateful as some have interpreted the posting, but not everyone here on HH is a Rah Rah so I was hoping they could expand upon the initial posting. I also think Soth is the best the Angels have ever had, but it’s ok to criticize him and the organization every now and then…wait or is it?
We'll DO IT LIVE!!!!!
Don't get me wrong
Scioscia is the most frustrating manager in the world at times. And I do believe he values chemistry and stuff over actual talent (GMJ, Mathis, etc). He does have some issues with choosing the correct starting lineup at times. I was just pointing out that the specific incidents you mention above are “meh”.
replacement level analysis
How about letting Garret Anderson waltz out there with only one working eye.
by snowhor on Jan 20, 2009 8:16 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
That drove me crazy!
It is his job to know that GA wasn’t fit to play. How do you let a guy take BP underground when he is getting ready for a day game with a bad eye? That was effin’ crazy. As a result of that dumb managerial decision, Willits hit cleanup in the ALDS. Very annoying.
Now, Scioscia is very good with a pitching staff – better than any manager I can think of outside of Bobby Cox. However, with position players and “strategy” he is merely average. His shenanigans have cost the Halos runs in important situations. The contact play, and “aggressive” (read dumb) baserunning by guys like Nipples, Vlad and others that have no speed is troubling. Also, hitting Izzy third and overall poor lineup construction is a sore spot for me. Lastly, way too many sacrifice bunts/hitting to the right side.
Now that was a bit of a rant, I get that, but in the end, Scioscia is a pretty solid manager when compared to the other dolts out there. Scioscia does minimal harm on the offensive side of things and manages the hell out of the pitchers.
Also, I tend to think that with better offensive players he’d look smarter on that side of the ball. If he had more mashers I think he’d let them hit more often. Unfortunately, he has a bunch of punch-n-judy hitters, so he over-manages trying to “make something happen”.
To quote Billy Joel, he’s a “victim of circumstance”.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on Jan 20, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with every word you wrote.
Too bad someone rec’d your comment before I could.
I’ll see your 11 years and raise you another 10.
by Downing Rules on Jan 24, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
I think I only extended him for four more
So I think your extending him till 2030. That is just ridiculous. He will be about a 110 years old.
Since we are all getting pretty bored around here, what do you think of the whole Spag thing with the eagle qb and carolina lb coaches and all. After the giant lb coach was signed for the def coord, I kind of thought we would go with the old ram coach/current giant def back coach. Is this this the rebirth of the Rams?
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Jan 25, 2009 3:32 AM PST up reply actions
HEY REV
Just wondering, does selling tickets get you booted or just get your post deleted?
We'll DO IT LIVE!!!!!
You should have a mood indicator
like on the myspaces or some sort of color coded alert system.
We'll DO IT LIVE!!!!!
surprised no one mentioned
bringing in Wash to face Papi in extra innings.
Or is it still too soon?
Joe Torre hasn't won in a decade
Lasorda won twice in 20 years. Leyland won once in 16 years… Ozzie Guillen is a mixed bag. Who the F*** is he trying to compare Sosh to? Red Auerbach?
If GA wasn't so lazy the Halos woulda won the 2008 WS by now.
Yes, because
The World Series title was ALL about Scioscia. You can’t judge a manager on how many title he wins.
replacement level analysis
Not Red,
Wooden
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Specializing in maniac-ball since 2000
by halofan4life on Jan 23, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
Ralph Houk (NYY) for you youngsters
won his first 2 WS and then went into the tank
by SocalAngelFaninOC on Jan 22, 2009 2:04 PM PST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
- Will Bryce Harper start the season with the Nationals?
- Mitch Mustain puts football behind him, signs reported rookie deal with White Sox
- Robinson Cano and Denzel Washington face off in Jay Leno’s Yankees trivia contest
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
