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High OBP and big power talent going for nothing

We have holes at LF/1B/DH and we let...

Burrell-Consistent .875-.900 OPS with 30 bombs a year go for 2 years, $16M.  Giambi-Another 30 bomb, near .900 OPS guy goes for 1 year, $4M with a club option for $5.5M.

Doesn't look like we'll be adding Dunn or Abreu for the bargain prices they'll come at either.  No reason we shouldn't have signed at least 2 of Burrell, Giambi, Dunn and/or Abreu. 

What an abortion of an off-season.

 

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

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WHAT HOLES???

Juan Rivera is NOT a hole.
Kendry Morales is NOT a hole.
We are so deep DH is the least of our holes.

Just telling it like it is.

by Rev Halofan on Jan 7, 2009 1:34 AM PST reply actions  

Rev??

I agree with the Rivera and KMo parts. I am more uncertain regarding the DH slot.

Who do we plug in there?

I see the OF as Rivera, Hunter, Vlad. GMJ will fill in starting in May, which may (or may not) help some. Willits is the presumed back up there. How much does Figgy play in the OF next year?? That is also a big question for me, but I don’t see him as a DH.

The rest of our squad is presumable IF, with a huge number of potential infielders, KMo, Howie, SRod, Aybar, Izzy, Figgy and Wood. I don’t see any of them as a potential DH. They are fine in their IF role, but not someone you want hitting just to hit, imo.

We do have the possibility of Naps DHing some, when he isn’t behind the plate. I would rather see him back there more than less though.

So, who is the DH? Are we just filling in until GMJ is back? I still think there is a need for another bat. Where am I going wrong here?

by matthiasstephan on Jan 7, 2009 4:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Vlad, Rivera = DH

Figgins, if not traded = LF & RF, Wood = 3rd base

by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 7, 2009 6:27 AM PST up reply actions  

it doesnt really matter

He never uses a typical DH anyhow, it will probably be mice tits for awhile to get his productive bat in the lineup.
I am not to worried, I was dissapointed for a little while in our average offseason, but our bullben I believe is stronger than last year, Our starting pitching is great (quit worrying about the #5 starter, most teams are worrying about #3,4,5 starters) Most of our lineup is set, and young and locked in. Holes at 1b is minor since Kmo will be fine.
And remember there is always the trading deadline, with a desperate team, willing to part with a high ops and HR guy, who is too expensive or at the end of a contract

Terrorist plot to blow up Fenway? I'm okay with that

by Sinatrasratpack on Jan 7, 2009 7:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Rev...

All due respect, you are missing the point.

I don’t think either Kendry Morales or Juan Rivera are holes, per se. But…

If a large-market team has an opportunity to improve the offense at nominal cost and for nominal years it is foolish not to do so.

Pat Burrell has posted an OPS+ over 120 for each of the last four seasons. He is a mortal lock to hit 25-32 HR’s and draw 90-110 walks. He will post an OBP north of .360 and a SLG right around .500. He just signed for 2 years at $8 million per year. That is a reasonable contract.

Adam Dunn has hit 40 HR’s for each of the last 4 seasons. He will post an OBP north of .375 and a SLG right around .500 as well. He is yet unsigned.

These two guys are not getting big, long-term deals. They are settling for pretty low offers for minimal years. And, signing one of these guys does nothing to displace either player. Why not spend a little to guarantee that production from LF or 1B for a short-term contract?

If the Halos went after Burrell here is what you do:

Kendry plays 1st, Rivera plays LF, Vlad plays RF and Burrell DH’s; when Vlad needs a breather, Burrell goes to LF, Rivera to RF and Vlad to DH.

The same rotation holds true with Dunn. Put Dunn at DH, and love him to 1st or LF (with Kendry going to the other position) when Vlad needs to DH.

If the Halos wanted to really make a statement – they would have signed both Burell and Dunn (if, of course they were interested). Replace the Rivera signing with a Burrell signing and shuttle Dunn between DH, and 1st base with Kendry Morales . If this happened the Halos would sport a lineup with four guys who could post OBP’s between .360-.400 and SLG’s around .480-.510 (Vlad, Burrell, Dunn and Napoli). When was the last time the Halos had four mashers like that?

2002.

Garret Anderson, Tim Salmon, Brad Fullmer and Troy Glaus. Hitting the ball far and drawing walks wins games. Period.

I think Rivera was a great signing – but if I am honest with myself and I compare that signing to a signing of a clearly superior player to a short-term, reasonable contract (Burrell) I am not sure that the Halos targeted the right guy. To that end, if I am Tony Reagins, I am calling up the representation of Adam Dunn right now and offering 2 years, $18 million and feeling him out. If he blinks, go to $10 million per and don’t even think about it.

This brings me to my last point. The Halos have depth. No question. But, that depth is useless if it is used to get another slap-hitting middle-infielder into the DH spot. There is depth, but if Mice Tits, Figgy, Aybar, Mathis or anyone similar gets AB’s at DH this team deserves to watch the post-season from home. Not to channel 2002 too much, but when was the last time the Halos had a legitimate DH?

Right, 2002. Hitting the ball far and drawing walks wins games. Period.

DH isn’t a position to sneak in your backup middle infielder to keep him fresh – it is the place you hide a crappy fielding, all-stick masher like Adam Dunn.

I am not unhappy with the move that have been made to this point, but with the new evidence at our disposal regarding the deflated market I hope Reagins is at least inquiring about picking up a DH that can hit the ball a long way and is willing to draw a walk. For the GM of the big-market L.A. Angels not do that would be negligence.

by jimmuscomp on Jan 7, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

it's all about the mindset

the Angels still think that their slap-hitting, run all over creation way of ball can win championships because it did… once. 7 years ago.

the reason why it worked back then was because teams were stocking up and waiting for the 3 run homer. when you had good pitching and a ton of speed (as well as the long ball) it won in 2002. what the Angels fail to realize is that they didn’t just have speed… they had mashers. more than one.

they took the small ball approach and went extreme with it, which puts us where we are in 2009. the league has now figured out that they balance the Angels had in 2002 (pitching, speed and mashers) wins…. but the Angels seem to have forgotten about that last part.

i love the idea of building for the future and letting the kids play, but all of the kids are in the infield. i see nothing wrong with signing an Adam Dunn because he wouldn’t be blocking any of the kids. He would be purely a DH until Vlad needs rest, then play in LF for a few games. that still leaves room for Wood, Morales and Aybar (if Figgy is traded, which I believe NEEDS to happen).

until the Angels are willing to come back to a balance of speed and power, we’ll probably continue to watch Maicer Izturis batting in the 3 hole with Reggie Willits as the DH. and we’ll continue to get beat by teams that having figured out the balance.

Kotch would've had that.

by howiestheman on Jan 7, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

i'd go with Izturis

which would, of course, unseat Aybar… but Izzy is the only other guy that could realistically do it.

Kotch would've had that.

by howiestheman on Jan 7, 2009 10:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Batting lead off for the Angels

Would be Izturis if I had my way. Especially if it meant bringing in a guy like Dunn or Abreu.

Figgins over 162 game average hits .290 AVG, .356 OBP, walks 65 times, and K’s 104 times, plus he turns 31 in two weeks.

Izturis over 162 game average hits .272 AVG, .337 OBP, walks 51 times, and K’s 58 times, and turns 29 in Aug.

So, I’d like to see Izzy leading, and trading Figgins for another arm (in case Speier or Escobar can’t return to form), or a starting pitcher. Give 3rd base to Wood. Keep Aybar as a back-up to Izzy.

1. Izturis SS
2. Dunn DH/LF/1B or Abreu RF/DH
3. Vlad RF/DH
4. Rivera LF/DH
5. Hunter CF
6. Napoli C
7. Kendrick 2nd
8. Morales 1B/RF/LF/DH
9. Wood 3rd

by matt92130 on Jan 7, 2009 10:32 PM PST up reply actions  

i agree, but

the problem right now is that we have one sport to fill if Wood gets a starting job – DH/RF/LF.
GMJ is out til May. If Juan is in LF and Vlad is in RF, we have an open DH slot. If Vlad is at DH and Juan is in LF, we have an open RF spot. So who do we use? we’re, for all intents and purposes, not adding anybody else.

Nappy could DH, but that mean we could have series problems at the bottom of the order with Mathis and the first couple weeks of Wood (i love the guy, but it takes him a bit to warm up).

if Figgy gets traded, i think it’ll happen around June.

Kotch would've had that.

by howiestheman on Jan 7, 2009 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Not getting anyone else...

Yeah, you’re probably right if that’s the case. But I’d have Izturiz fill the DH slot.

C Naps
1 K-Mo
2. HK
SS Wood
3rd Figgy
LF Juan
CF Hunter
RF Vlad
DH Izzy

by matt92130 on Jan 7, 2009 11:04 PM PST up reply actions  

its called fielding

Burells positive impact with the bat is almost negated with his crap fielding, same for Dunn. If they dont DH, they lose most of their value. Singing two would be a huge mistake, although siging Dunn would be sweet, as he could DH/RF and hes not too much worse than Vlad, so it wouldnt hurt us that badly

Lets go angels

by anaheim angels on Jan 11, 2009 12:42 AM PST up reply actions  

RE: WHAT HOLES???

Morales has a career .249/.302/.408/.710 line in 377 big league at bats. If he’s not a hole, he’s at least a question mark who will be a hole if he continues to produce that way in the big leagues next year.

Rivera has a career .331 OBP, .799 OPS, has had trouble staying healthy, is average (I feel that’s being generous) defensively and is coming off a really poor year. He might not be a hole, but he’s definitely not a strength and we could certainly upgrade the position.

A guy like Dunn or Burrell or Abreu or Giambi would/would’ve been a big upgrade at DH. We may be deep at DH, but it’s deep in mediocrity, aside from Vlad who sees quite a bit of time in the field. We don’t have any .900 OPS guys with big power, like the guys I mentioned can provide—-and at extremely reasonable/bargain prices in this market.

by I Tell It Like It Is on Jan 8, 2009 4:14 AM PST up reply actions  

building for the future...what a concept, eh?

Thats exactly what we’re doing.

I dont know if youve noticed, but Oakland and Texas have really really talented crops of prospects in AA and AAA right now and the free agent market sucks next year in terms of offense.

Burrell?? Where would Vlad have played? If it werent for GA, Vlad probably would have been the full time DH LAST year. And Burrell is a worse fielder than Vlad and slower.If you want a core of 35 year old Torii, 35 year old Vlad, 36(?) Abreu/Burrell/Dunn, Matthews, than you’ll be in for a really sorry surprise when theyre all declining at the same time just as Texas and Oakland begin becoming powerhouses(and theyre about to).

So whats worse? Being slightly worse on offense in 2009 because we’re giving Brandon Wood, Aybar and Kendry Morales the ABs they need to develop OR blocking them in favor of declining one-dimensional veterans and effectively handing the division over for the next 5 years to Oakland and Texas?

 Having about 60+% of our payroll in these old guys (if you figure we signed Giambi and Abreu for a total of about 16 or 17 mil) is not how you win in this league.

Also, with salary increases and arbitration, we’d have no money to extend lackey, which Im sure is something youll be begging for before next offseason as well.

by ihearhowie2.0 on Jan 7, 2009 6:26 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Vlad is 32 turning 33 in February… and yer not funny with the added year thing either…

by raven191 on Jan 8, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Ummm Dunn is only 29

Warm beer is infinitely colder than no beer.

by ostthomas on Jan 8, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Blah, Blah, Blah...

As other have pointed out -

Dunn is 29. Burrell is 33. If they signed two-year contracts they wouldn’t even be 36 when their deals expired.

Also, these signings are not either/or propositions. Signing one player (I really want Dunn) does nothing to impede the progress of prospects. Wood at SS, Figgy at 3B, Kendry at 1st, Vlad and Dunn split time between DH and the OF with Rivera rotating between RF and LF as needed.

And for that you get a guy likely to hit 35+ HR’s and draw 110 walks with an OPS of .900. Yeah, I’d hate to give the division away with a bum like that.

As for extending Lackey – he wants more offense before he re-ups. Dunn would provide that and show that the team is trying to win with this young, but soon-to-be-expensive core of players.

by jimmuscomp on Jan 8, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Burrell - "consistent" LOL

Try living in Philly and watching him all season. The guy goes through HORRENDOUS slumps. His second half last year was a disgrace.

by Ghost of Wally Joyner on Jan 7, 2009 7:23 AM PST reply actions  

Burrell's consistency...

I was referring to his yearly consistency. You can pencil him in for about 30 bombs and an OPS nearing .900 every year.

by I Tell It Like It Is on Jan 8, 2009 3:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Don't go cluttering up this conversation...

with facts. Geesh – Burrell isn’t good and too old – aren’t you listening to these folks! ;-)

by jimmuscomp on Jan 8, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

i'll agree w/the take on burrell's consietency but...

it does kind of boggle the mind when a player who hits 30 hrs for a world series winner in his walk year and made 13-14 mil. the year before has to take a huge pay cut.

by thejd on Jan 7, 2009 8:33 AM PST reply actions  

teams

are getting smarter. They see beyond the shiny home run totals and realize that alot of these guys’ value is limited by their horrible defense, base running, and strike outs.

by dmhead on Jan 7, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Weak market

I think teams are also seeing the value of on-base percentage, and Burrell does well in that department. It’s just a weak market for veteran OF/1B/DH types, and a weak market for the nation in general. When the off-season started, you could have had your pick of Manny Ramirez, Adam Dunn, Pat Burrell, Jason Giambi, Bobby Abreu, Raul Ibanez, Juan Rivera, or Garret Anderson, not to mention random spare parts like Moises Alou, Richie Sexson, and Frank Thomas. The Angels went with Juan. Not a stand-out among the crowd, but he is a known-quantity to the organization, and pretty inexpensive. I doubt that OBP is anywhere in the Angels’ organizational handbook.

The Rays got a good deal on Burrell. They might be the most well-rounded team in the AL East this year. So how stupid do the Phillies look for giving $36 million to a 37 year-old Raul Ibanez now?

by Suboptimal on Jan 7, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Fail

This is the economy. Plain and simple. Burrell K’s a lot but walks almost as much – it isn’t the K’s – it’s the uncertainty in the economic future that is making these owners hold on to their millions more tightly. As early as last year teams were throwing money at players that didn’t deserve it. They didn’t all get smart in 12 months.

by jimmuscomp on Jan 7, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree it's the economy.

Though, if either of these guys could play decent defense, I think they’d be doing a lot better in the FA market. And we’d probably be interested as well.

by snowhor on Jan 7, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

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