Halos Heaven: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: The Record of Wrongs: Vanderbilt Commodores

7th Inning 3-2 Pitch to Posada : What was that? More of the same folks, more of the same...


I just got back from Game 5 of the ALCS. Because I was sitting in Section 406 I couldn't clearly see the location of John Lackey's 7th Inning 3-2 pitch to Posada, but it looked suspiciously like another in the series of biased ball/strike calls that we have been seeing. When I got home and saw the replay on MLB.com I nearly fell out of my chair. That damn call was scandalous! This is simply a continuation of  Nick Green in Boston, Kazmir getting squeezed, missed pickoff calls, and the now infamous McClelland double out non-call.

Despite the coverage this horrible umpiring has been getting not only on Halos Heaven but in the MSM as well, the ridiculously bad calls continue to arise like herpes attacks on a middle-aged nymphomaniac. What can we as fans do about it? Some might say nothing. That we are helpless victims, left to stew in the juices of our justified anger.

Here on Halos Heaven our regular posters have spoken out about the travesty that is the umpiring of this ALCS.  About Game 4  Downing Rules said "that game was a DEBACLE." I couldn't agree more. Big Bad, Vlad wrote "If this shit keeps up, we will have another 1919 on our hands." Again, right on the mark. I think these comments are useful in that they allow us to express and deal with our anger -- they can be cathartic. Far from being the "whining" that many Yankee fans (and some Angel fans as well) have called these kinds of responses, I  think they are a sign of frustration and a feeling of being continually screwed by  unethical men who wield a significant amount of power in their particular field of influence (mlb umpires).

In addition to being a form of catharsis these comments can hopefully serve to elevate the level of dialogue about professional sports officiating from drunken stadium cries of "get the shit out of your eyes Ump" to a serious discussion about video replay, fan participation and even ethics in business.

On this evening Angels Talk Terry Smith said , "I though that was a bad call by Fieldin Culbreth." For someone who generally avoids participating in discussion about the negative effects of bad umpiring this is saying alot. Fieldin Culbreth apparently thought the Lackey pitch was low and inside. Interestingly, it seems those two words could be used to respectively describe his moral standards and the situation leading to his on field behavior.

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

4 recs  |  Comment 59 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Halos Heaven

Comments

Display:

Damn!!!

The only thing I can add is to note that when the Yankees had one bad call go against them (Damon called out when he really was safe at 1st in the 3rd inning) the announcing crew did not shut up about it for what seemed like two innings. Nobody on earth whines like a New Yorker… which will make Monday’s tabloids all that sweeter.

by Rev Halofan on Oct 22, 2009 10:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Spanks and Red spanks get two separate strike zones...

One for batting and one for pitching. The messed up calls in the field were just that, bad calls. But a third base umpire can’t throw a game, only the guy behind the plate can. The last game was decided in the first two innings when Kasmir got squeezed and Sabathia didn’t. I know I’ve never heard of an ump blaming a catcher for blocking his view on pitches before. Have you?

  Just like Schilling got huge zones the last couple of playoffs against us, while our pitchers continually got squeezed early and often.
How many spankees struck out looking today? 4 or 5? And they weren’t on full counts, they just expect to get calls cause they’re the Spanks. 8 year olds are taught to swing at anything close with two strikes, but not the Spanks, especially Jorgay.

Expect more of the same the rest of the series. It’s gonna be our nine guys against their nine plus the home plate ump, Rupert Murdoch, and Bud Selig.

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Oct 23, 2009 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heard of what?

I’m not sure what you’re asking.

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Oct 23, 2009 4:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know I’ve never heard of an ump blaming a catcher for blocking his view on pitches before. Have you?

It could happen! Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.

by AlanFalcon on Oct 23, 2009 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blocked by Naps

I know I’ve never heard of an ump blaming a catcher for blocking his view on pitches before. Have you?

And if that really was the case, then the ump needs to be fired. It’s his job to put himself in a position where he can see the pitches. It seems to me that had the Soth wanted, he could have formally filed a protest, on the grounds that the umpire was incompetent.

Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch

by red floyd on Oct 23, 2009 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BALL BREATH was the home plate ump tonight?

I was in 257 and was pumping my fists at strike 3. Even that far away 430 feet away, I could tell it was a freakin’ strike. Put ME on the payroll, dammit.

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Oct 22, 2009 11:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Brilliant!

I had a good chuckle at the game thread in
pinstripe alley:

Just seeing them go from all self righteous to crushing disappointment.

Made my day.

by BlindSquirrel on Oct 23, 2009 12:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldnt celebrate that too much..

I am sure our threads went from glee to pain back to joy again. It can go both ways. Let’s revel in victory, but anticipate a steal in game 6. Let’s kick some Yankee ass.

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Oct 23, 2009 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m glad Lackey called the ump on that play. Umps will continue favoring the Yanks until they get scrutinized, and Joe Buck did just that. After the Yankees came back he went back and talked about that pitch and how it looked like a strike. We still have a big problem because everyone (including the umps) thinks CC is God.

by Trooper86 on Oct 23, 2009 1:23 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well put and yet...

It makes me laugh (cuz with stupidity you have two choices: 1- laugh or 2- be pissed off and end up only really huting yourself with ulcers and high blood pressure since the stupid people don’t care that they’ve pissed you off, lol) that the Posada 3rd strike walk was THE PIVOTAL missed call in the game, completely changing the momentum toward the Yankees in the 7th inning since, if that call had been made correctly, Posada would’ve been the 2nd out, then Damon’s popout would’ve been the third, and none of the 6 Yankee runs would’ve scored, but not only is it almost completely dismissed and ignored by the announcers on FOX (who did NOT shut up for the rest of the 3rd inning and better part of the next about Damon being called out on a close call at first) aside from mentioning it immediately when it happened, but what I’ve seen from the media so far regarding another missed call in the postseason, in this game, was about the Damon call! I just have to laugh.
You’re right, it’s nice to have a forum to vent these frustrations; and it CRACKS ME UP that when Angels fans do complain about the botched calls (the majority of which go against the Halos), it’s “whining” but when Yankee fans get all bent out of shape over something, they’re conveyed as “ligitimate” complaints, not only by themselves, since obviously fans are going to get upset when something doesn’t go their team’s way (we ARE called FANS for a reason, lol), but by the media in its obvious preferential treatment and overanalysis of ANY call disputed by the Yankees that could negatively effect the game for them.
 If nothing else, I think this all goes to show that though Selig has said he adamantly opposes expanding the use of replay beyond how it is currently employed, I believe most of us would agree that the blown calls throughout this postseason reiterate that he should rethink his postion.

by AngelsHalo on Oct 23, 2009 2:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What I think needs to happen is someone needs to go through the footage of this series and just point out all the ridiculous calls that have happened. I know this has been done to some extent on Baseball Tonight, and I know that the MLB has already responded in part by making some changes to the way umpires for the World Series this year are chosen. But I want more – I want real, unbiased, solid video evidence of umpire incompetence that forces the MLB AGAIN to conduct their own review and make a statement in response. I want people who aren’t even watching the series to know what has been happening.

It could happen! Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.

by AlanFalcon on Oct 23, 2009 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is actually also an idea that I've wanted for the broadcast too, show just how much of a bias they actually have, in an objctive way.

Sounds like a good science project.

It could happen! Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.

by AlanFalcon on Oct 23, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right

It does sound interesting and like a good science project. Maybe someone should do it! :)

by AngelsHalo on Oct 24, 2009 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point AngelsHalo

I didn’t mention that in my post, but you are absolutely right about the Posada pitch being the PIVOTAL call/play of that half-inning. IF called correctly Lackey likely finishes that inning himself and we never see Oliver’s face.

It is a good thing we showed alot of fortitude and came back with those 3 runs, otherwise we could be talking about how that call ended our season. We have to hand it to the Angels for the heart and persistence they showed. It really appears that in this series we’ll have to beat not only the Yankees but the umpires as well. It is a tall order but not impossible. Unlike football which is the “easiest” team sport for officials to manipulate, baseball, as another person commented is primarily manipulated via ball/strike calls. But once the ball is released and HIT, the chance for manipulation goes way down. If Vlad belts one out of the park the homeplate umpire can’t throw and late flag and “holding, offense, ten yards, still first down.” Unless there is a border play those runs are on the board. Nevertheless, there still remains a TREMENDOUS opportunity/ability to influence the direction and outcome of games through ball and strike calls.

by Jack Frost on Oct 23, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The league/$pankee's ace in the hole

has always been that you can’t argue balls and strikes. Fuentes, if nothing else, did a great service when he called out the chickenshit umps in Fenway this summer. I’ve been looking and I can’t find video of that game anywhere.

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Oct 23, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you Jack Frost

However, I would go so far as to contend that the missed call to Posada was the pivotal call of the entire GAME especially considering its possible repercussions and in fact, the consequent six runs scored by the Yankees, which, as you pointed out, could’ve ended the entire season for the Angels.

by AngelsHalo on Oct 24, 2009 2:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Read it again....

I called it the pivotal call of THAT HALF INNING!

by Jack Frost on Oct 24, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, misread that....

It looks like you’re simply disagreeing about the way the call should be viewed. Okay.

Guess I would respond by saying that we did come back and win, SO, the ultimate significance was fortunately lessened. Nevertheless, it is part of a larger pattern that is VERY CONCERNING and actually threatens the integrity of baseball itself.

by Jack Frost on Oct 24, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course you're right

on all points. It is moot now and I couldn’t agree with you more, lol. Just wanted to say thanks for starting a thread here where those of us who were bothered and agitated by the bad calls could vent some of our frustration! I meant to put it in my post originally, but kinda got sidetracked once I got going, lol (if you couldn’t tell, I can sometimes become rather verbose, lol). Since I’m thinking of it and don’t want to forget this time, thank you for starting this thread and may I say that I thoroughly enjoyed reading your narrative! I look forward to reading more :)

by AngelsHalo on Oct 25, 2009 3:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

could be alot worse, Eddings could be the crew chief.

To save his life, Napoli could not throw anyone out @ 2nd

by DB on Oct 23, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd this post

Well said. We as fans need to complain about bad calls. I don’t mean mere missed calls, calls where the ump obviously made an honest mistake. I mean the naked-eye obvious type of calls we’ve seen way too much of lately. It’s annoying enough to see trolls characterize these complaints as "whining,’ but it’s downright galling when it comes from one of our own.

What we've got can't be bought

by rspencer on Oct 23, 2009 2:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This was friggin priceless...

Just seconds after the game finished, and on national TV (without a picture of it, of course) Rosenthal asked Lackey about walking Posada. “It wasn’t a walk, let’s be honest. It wasn’t a walk,” Lackey said.

No way Jorgay gets rung up a second time in two innings with this much $$$ on the line for a $pankee$ WS appearance. Especially with Brooklyn and the Red $pank$ now eliminated.
By the way did anyone catch Hosada’s face when he got called looking the first time. I thought we was going to pull out a cell phone and call his lawyer while still in the batter’s box.

Also, Abreu got squeezed in our comeback 7th. We were damn lucky he was able to get one across after the ump took the bat out of his hands.
 
The Damon call was very close and without the sound of the ball hitting mitt, it’s nearly impossible to get those plays right consistently.

The double tag-out last game was a case of McClelland being blocked out from seeing it clearly (and just a weird play).

The balls and strikes are what’s going to make or break this thing and calling it out now is the only chance we’ve got of getting a fair shake in $pankee town. Does everyone remember why they hate the $pankee$ and their poop-flinging fans now?

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Oct 23, 2009 4:58 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

It was a bad call

But the strike three on Teixeira in the first inning was pretty questionable as well.

I was talking about this the other night with some friends while watching game three, but what I’d love to see from the broadcast team is an approximation of the ump’s strike zone. In other words, they show us the box representing the strike zone and where pitches finished, and that’s all well and good. But how about they show us that for the first four or five innings while they’re collecting data. Then starting in the fifth or sixth inning, instead of a big rectangle, show us the actual shape of the umpire’s zone. If he’s not giving the low inside pitch, than that’s not part of the de facto strike zone. I don’t care if the shape is a big blob, I’d like to see something representing where balls and strikes have been for that guy the whole game.

by LA Seitz on Oct 23, 2009 7:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I like this.

It could happen! Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.

by AlanFalcon on Oct 23, 2009 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

'cept for the fact

that there is a clear rectangular shape — at least on the sides — from the side of the plate. If he’s not calling something that’s OVER the plate, it better be above his letters or well below his knees.

by shiftyeyedgoat on Oct 23, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lets see if I can insert this pic…

Thats the strike zone plot for John’s pitches last night, thanks to the find folks at brooks… It’s from the Umps perspective so a green square in the lower right hand corner of the box would represent a low inside pitch to a left handed batter that was called a ball…

Not all of the red squares are called strikes, some are swinging strikes…

Lets play “one of these things doesn’t belong here”…

by Jietoh on Oct 23, 2009 8:53 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I was looking at this same data for Burnett

He has a green dot in almost the exact same spot, but I don’t know what pitch is was or if it has as big of impact on the game as Lackey’s.

Just sayin’.

by WiHaloFan on Oct 23, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually thought, with the exception of that pitch

Fieldin did a very solid job of calling the game last night.

What has me so perplexed is why the crucial pitches in tough spots almost seemingly never go the Angels’ way.

by shiftyeyedgoat on Oct 23, 2009 10:04 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That's the key!

You mentioned “crucial pitches.” I think that is actually the point, really. I am not saying that ALL the calls go the Yankees/Red Sox way. There is however alot of video evidence that pitches in KEY or CRUCIAL situations seem to. If the Yankees are the victims of a “bad call” in the 8th inning of a game they are already leading 9-3, or say 10-1, does that really hurt them? The calls that tend to turn games, I believe, are mostly in the early innings when the pace, tone and momentum of the game is being established. In addition, of course, calls in the late innings of close games are also very pivotal. But just because one team suffers a “bad call”, I don’t think you can assume that all bad calls are created equal — they most certainly are not. I do not hear the talking heads making this point on ESPN, Fox etc..

by Jack Frost on Oct 23, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's on MLB.com

but I’m not sure how to copy the link here

by Jack Frost on Oct 23, 2009 11:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's hard to tell from the video

because Mathis moves his glove to frame the pitch. In this still you can see the ball right over the plate, it’s on the corner, almost on a direct line between the corner of the plate and the ump’s face. If an ump can’t make this call correctly he should find another line of work.

I am fan various years ago.

by Fred Fredrix on Oct 23, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Mathis shouldn't have framed the pitch

I remember Blue not liking that.

*Ade-Rock 34*

by TheTypingFiend on Oct 23, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a lame-ass excuse.

“Oh, I couldn’t see the ball, I was blocked out, must not have been a strike” “Oh, he moved his glove after catching it. I forget where the ball passed over the plate, but obviously it must not have been a strike.” “Oh, his foot is on the bad, obviously it was on the bag earlier, when I was looking.”

It could happen! Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.

by AlanFalcon on Oct 23, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

It’s what ALL catchers are taught to do! So asking one to not frame a pitch would be akin to asking him to ignore years of training! That’s simply ridiculous!

by AngelsHalo on Oct 24, 2009 1:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I think the video is good because you see

the flight of the ball from Lackey’s hand etc and where it crosses the plate. In addition, you see Lackey’s response, which is total disbelief in the call. It also shows Sosh’s response and he is just incredulous. Wish I knew how to transfer that video. Perhaps someone will help out with that. But I agree that this call simply CANNOT be missed by a professional umpire

by Jack Frost on Oct 23, 2009 12:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

MLB Gameday image of Posada's AB in the 7th:

If this data is to be believed, pitch #8 should definitely have been called a strike…BUT…pitch #2 should probably have been called a ball, and pitch #3 should DEFINITELY been called a ball. So the Yankee fans have just as much to bitch about on ball/strike calls in this AB as we do.

You too can be a baseball media analyst! Just don't allow your need to be wrong in public to get in the way of your ignorance.

by Stirrups on Oct 23, 2009 3:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The pitch trax used in game

showed Lackey’s pitch (#8) to be more ‘in-the-zone’ than this data does. So maybe MLB.com’s zone isn’t expanded widely enough or is graphing data differently…but the T.V. pitch-trax would have put #2 in the zone, and #3 right on the corner if you expand the MLB.com zone to what our T.V. was showing.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Oct 23, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, is you assume that the MLB data is using the MLB Pitch-f/x system...

My understanding of Pitch-f/x is that it is a simulation. It takes the actual data of the pitch track, and recalculates that as a pitch without spin and the generates a new track to the plate in their web animation. What should be the result is that the flight of the ball to the point where they make their mark may differ, but the mark itself should not.

One thing I have noticed with MLB Pitch-f/x is that if you slew the batter to a complete side view, looking at the batter perpendicular to the flight of the ball, and then back way out far enough, you will notice that the Pitch-f/x animation spots its mark at the front of the plate. No pitch is actually tracked over the plate. Therefore, no pitch is actually tracked through the strike zone. Maybe the Fox pitch trax system uses a mark at the catcher’s mitt. If we ignore the ball flight animation (which, since it it a modeling invention and can create a false sense of direction) it would make sense that one system (Pitch-f/x) sees the ball as it enters the zone (just barely), while the Fox system see the ball after it travels further through the zone and is able to observe that the ball got a richer slice of the zone itself.

You too can be a baseball media analyst! Just don't allow your need to be wrong in public to get in the way of your ignorance.

by Stirrups on Oct 23, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry but...

Your post here seems to be a convoluted commentary, Stirrups, permeated with undertones of confusion, conjecture, and uncertainty as evidenced by the multiple uses of “IF” and “MAYBE”… I could say more, but instead, I’m going to leave it at that.

by AngelsHalo on Oct 24, 2009 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok. I will re-write.

We have 4 graphic information sources that we are all using to rely on, and validate, our position that pitch #8 was actually strike 3.
- Jietoh’s data from Brookstreet.com
- Fox Sports pitch trax system
- Frame clips from the Fox broadcast
- MLB Gameday Pitch-f/x

We must discount the Fox video frames altogether, since those are not from a camera directly behind the pitcher, The camera angle distorts the appearance of the ball flight. So I am just sticking to the computer graphics.

Each of the three computers graphics systems places some mark on a two-dimensional field, relative to some two dimensional rectangle that is supposed to represent the strike zone, to mark the location of each particular pitch.

Two of those systems – Fox Pitch Trax and MLB Gamecast – add an animated ball flight graphic. Brookstreet does not. My research here tells me to ignore this animation for MLB Gameday because this is a simulation and not necessarily the trueflight of the ball. I have no idea about Fox Sports Pitch Trax. But, to keep them all similar, let’s ignore any animation of ball flight and pay attention ONLY to the spot that each system uses to mark the position of the ball.

With MLB Gameday, that mark is at the very front of the plate. We do not know from MLB Gameday is what happens to the ball after it crosses the front of the plate, because MLB Gameday does NOT track the ball through the strike zone. It ignores the fact that the zone is three-dimensional space.

I do not know where the ball is when Brookstreet and/or Fox Pitch Trax spot the pitch. If they are using the MLB camera system, they are also at the FRONT of the plate. But knowing this is very important. Why? Well, Let’s use my MLB Gameday image above.

Pitch #8 began its flight across the plate IN THE STRIKE ZONE. The other two systems show that same pitch to have gotten a richer portion of the zone. If those systems spot the pitch at the back of the zone, when the catcher catches the ball, then that would tell us that pitch #8 got more and more of the plate as the ball traveled over the plate. At the front of the plate it is just within the strike zone, and when the catcher catches that ball, it is well within the strike zone. Makes sense to me.

So Angels and Angels fans have a complaint about pitch #8.

But what about pitch #2 and pitch #3? According to MLB Gameday pitch #2 is basrely outside. Maybe barely on the black. easily called by the ump one way or the other. The ump called it a strike.

Pitch #3 is clearly OUTSIDE the zone. Further outside than pitch #2. Again, the ump called that pitch a strike.

Should the Yankee fans be complaining about getting jobbed on pitches #2 and #3? I know Posada looked a little miffed during his AB on those pitches.

But here is my point: becaue Gamsecast only spots the ball at the front of the plate, it is possible that each ball came in towards the center of the zone as it crossed the plate, and each pitch ended up a legitimate strike. Gameday does not inform us of that. It only tells us where the ball was at the front end of the plate, and what the ump called for that pitch.

So…either we take the time to learn more about these sources of information before declaring them to be proof of our claim, or we accept that they also tell us that the other team get jobbed in that same AB, and we have nothing to be complaining about.

You too can be a baseball media analyst! Just don't allow your need to be wrong in public to get in the way of your ignorance.

by Stirrups on Oct 24, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The difference between pitches 1 & 2 and 8 are all in the sequencing.

If Lackey’s first pitch is a called ball, do you think he’d throw another, slightly further outside the zone? Unlikely. So if pitch 1 was called wrong, then we have a 100% completely different pitch sequence, different at-bat, and nobody knows what happens.

What about the second pitch? Should that have been called a ball, Lackey would likely stick within the zone trying to get strike two. When you have a batter down 0-2, it’s common to throw more ‘junk’ pitches because it lowers the risk of giving up a solid hit at little cost. So if the count were 1-1 at that point, AGAIN the pitch sequence changes.

But they were both called strikes and so we move on to pitch number eight. If it’s called a ball, it’s a walk, at-bat over, and if it’s called a strike, it’s a strikeout, at-bat and inning over. The effect of an umpire’s call on the eighth pitch of this at-bat is the one that obviously really matters and has a direct, extreme effect on the game.

Pitches one or two change the pitcher’s approach and the batter’s approach, but those two factors remain in control of the pitcher and batter. The umpire needs to do all he can to get those calls right, but you can not use the first or second pitch calls to justify an eighth pitch call. because the situations is completely different at that point. On that eighth pitch, Lackey needs to hit the edge of the zone to reduce the chance of a solid hit and the guarantee a strikeout if no swing is offered. Posada needs to protect every pitch near the strike zone to try and foul off the pitch and hope for a better (or worse) pitch or put the ball in play. He must absolutely in that situation only choose not to swing at a ball that is clearly outside of the strike zone, and this is EVEN MORE IMPORTANT if any of the previous strike calls are generous. This is why umpires traditionally call ‘close’ strike threes as strikes, the batter had the chance to swing but the pitcher can only rely on the call of the umpire in that situation. The onus is on Posada, and when he fails to swing, the onus is shifted to the umpire who has the job to call the third strike that was thrown.

So it’s a shame that Mathis blocked the umpire’s view of the pitch, or whatever BS they’re hiding behind this time.

It could happen! Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.

by AlanFalcon on Oct 24, 2009 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You bring up an intriguing concept:

How might an ump’s personal strike zone change once the batter gets, for example, 2 strikes? Does the ump’s esophagus tend to constrict any? Does the zone expand for some pitchers? Shrink for some batters? Thre should be enough data to look for this.

Does an ump’s zone change inadvertently within an AB? If so, is it predictable in any way?

You too can be a baseball media analyst! Just don't allow your need to be wrong in public to get in the way of your ignorance.

by Stirrups on Oct 24, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are stats about how umpires react for and against home teams, and after blown calls.

That would be a good stat to come up with.

It could happen! Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.

by AlanFalcon on Oct 24, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree with this statement.
On that eighth pitch, Lackey needs to hit the edge of the zone to reduce the chance of a solid hit and the guarantee a strikeout if no swing is offered. Posada needs to protect every pitch near the strike zone to try and foul off the pitch and hope for a better (or worse) pitch or put the ball in play. He must absolutely in that situation only choose not to swing at a ball that is clearly outside of the strike zone, and this is EVEN MORE IMPORTANT if any of the previous strike calls are generous. This is why umpires traditionally call ‘close’ strike threes as strikes, the batter had the chance to swing but the pitcher can only rely on the call of the umpire in that situation

ESPECIALLY when you consider that Posada’s previous at bat also ended in an strikeout without swinging. How confident must a guy be to take pitches like that with two strikes on him for both of his at bats in the game unless he’s completely accustomed to being rewarded for not swinging at close pitches? All of this goes against both logic and what baseball players are taught starting at an early age.

Yet Posada constantly ignores it and his OBP is over 100 points higher than his BA for his ENTIRE career (all with the $kankees). Think he might know something 99.999 percent of MLBers don’t, or do $pankees and $pank $ox players get different sets of rules when it comes to balls and strikes?

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Oct 25, 2009 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And that look of total indignation after that first called K!

I was really thinking that Bobby Abreu took so many called third strikes this year because he was used to the "Yankee Strike Zone’, but he ended up with more walks this year than last, though with far less power. He also had far more IBBs though, and so my new theory is that pitchers don’t mind pitching around him to face Torii and Vlad as much as they did when he was backed up some of New York’s power threats.

It could happen! Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.

by AlanFalcon on Oct 25, 2009 3:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The idea that he’s seeing fewer hittable pitches explains some of the decline in power numbers, as does the home ballpark factor. What makes Abreu so valuable is that he’s not swinging when they pitch around him, unlike some of our less patient hitters.

It could happen! Let's do this for Nick Adenhart, Courtney Stewart, and Henry Pearson.

by AlanFalcon on Oct 25, 2009 3:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As far as Posada's first K
And that look of total indignation after that first called K!

It’s the #5 in the lower left hand quadrant of the brooks chart above. What’s so funny about his face when he got w/rung up is he is actually considering arguing right there on a pitch that was obviously a strike. Instead he gets two innings of personal time with the ump to plant his seeds of Yankee BS.
Probably something along the lines of “The Commish isn’t gonna like it very much if there’s an Anaheim/Philly WS”.

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Oct 25, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I'll say that .....

while this post was primarily a visceral response to seeing the Posada call video, it is also not without a historical context which includes this series, parts of the 2009 Angels season, and most importantly literally THOUSANDS of professional sporting events I have watched over thirty plus years as a passionate, discerning and analytical sportsfan.
 
While I can accept the term “conjecture” if you mean it in manner of SUPPOSITION, I do not see where I use the terms “if” and “maybe.” This post was written quickly and is not the detailed analysis or essay that I hope to write entitled “Sports Travesties: A History of Odd, Incomprehensible and Unexplainable Officiating.” In this more detailed work I plan to include abundant documentation, quotes and other supporting evidence for the idea that pro supports HAVE BEEN and in many cases STILL ARE manipulated not just by participants, but more frequently by officials/umpires/refs. Any “good” sportsfan with collegiate freshman critical thinking skills would have to have been living in a hole to at least not have CONSIDERED the very good possibility that pro sports outcomes are manipulated, if not on a regular basis than enough to cause grave concern about the integrity of the major sports leagues.

This all being said, this post was not primarily about this topic. The thrust of this post was that our anger as fans over PERCEIVED wrong doing or even just gross incompetence (I for one believe what we have been seeing goes beyond mere inepititude or incom-petence) is both justified and should be expressed constructively in forums like this one. Others are welcome to disagree of course, but simply labeling these complaints as “whining” or marginalizing these discussions as “sour grapes” are short-sighted at best and extremely ignorant at worst.

by Jack Frost on Oct 24, 2009 9:20 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Sorry for any confusion...

Perhaps I should’ve clarified by putting the name of the person with the post that caused me to write the one you are referring to in the title section rather than bury it in among all the other verbage. Mine was in response to another poster named Stirrups, not in any way directed toward you or your posting, many apologies. To clarify, I completely agree with your postion that having this forum is not only beneficial, but can be quite thereputic to fans, especially when it seems our opinions are largely ignored. This is the perfect solution in my opinion! I also completely agree with this post here. :)

by AngelsHalo on Oct 25, 2009 2:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks.

Yes, I did misread your earlier comment directed to Stirrups.

by Jack Frost on Oct 25, 2009 8:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

In the 2009 WIKIO Rankings, Halos Heaven ranked 21st Most Important Sports Blog on Earth. Source: Wikio, December 2009.
Start posting about the Angels »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Tn96_small
Fun Website
031_small
Dear Mr. Moreno: Bring Back Hud!
Small
Moneyball 2: Attack of Zduriencik
House_016_small
A Day in the Life of Gary Matthews Jr. - A Final Tribute

Recent FanPosts

Stage_dive_1__small
New Angels Billboard
34_adenhart_2x2_small
Shields to miss start of Spring Training...
Tn96_small
Confusion Over Out of Options Players
Small
Team Health Reports at BP
Small
The Angels Future is Bright
Light_up_the_halo_1600x1200_small
Fear the Mariners?
Teddybear_small
Cabrera signs with Cincinnati.
Brandon_wood_small
Let's play over/under!!!!
39135485-59af19dbb26654095f910f34176af094_4ae8a81e-scaled_small
Predictions Group

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS