Fay Vincent on Umpiring

by George Kaplan on Oct 25, 2009 7:26 AM PDT Comment 32 comments

In an op-ed in the NY Times, former baseball commissioner Fay Vincent (the last one who wasn't a lap-dog for the owners) writes an intelligent analysis of what's wrong with the umpiring in baseball and how to fix it.

Among the proposed changes: Increasing the pay of the umpires in the minors and providing retirement incentives to MLB umps to retire at age 55, allowing newer, younger talent to percolate to the top. Minor-league umps are like the baseball players of the pre-free agency period, earning so little in their occupation that a second job is required to make ends meet. When the umpires at the top level stay around well into their 60s, there is no spot in the upper echelon for the younger umps to attain. The combination of years of low pay in training and little opportunity for advancement to a bigger payday means that someone of talent might not consider this occupation.

I heard Vincent interviewed on the baseball channel on XM, and he mentioned that he was asking the owners and the umpires' union about this back when he was the commissioner. Nothing happened.

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I think the 55 year incentive retirement idea is great...

This isnt ageism, but does Tim McClelland seriously not look slightly confused and out of it? All the missed calls from Game 4 showed him making ridiculous mistakes. He seemed tired and confused. Get him off the field.

As far as Fay Vincent, wasnt he the one who threw Pete Rose out of baseball?

Do it for Nick '09

by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Oct 25, 2009 10:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think Giamatti threw him out.

Vincent was always able to hedge and say he was only upholding Giamatti’s decision.

Captain, there are doubt's...

by Match Day 5 on Oct 25, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ah...thanks.

Do it for Nick '09

by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Oct 25, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's a great scene in the movie "Sideways"

that I wonder how many other than us baseball geeks noticed that in the scene where the character Miles (Paul Giamatti) is stealing money from his mom, he looks up & ponders at the real photo of him and his dad Bart Giamatti sitting on the top of the dresser.

2009 Halos AL Western Division Champs:
"Don't worry bout a thing,
Cause every little thing gonna be all right!"

by Quad Fin Rider on Oct 25, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not everybody ages the same

I don’t believe in a mandatory retirement age per se, but wouldn’t implementing annual eye & reflex tests for umps that want to continue working after 55 be a better alternative?

2009 Halos AL Western Division Champs:
"Don't worry bout a thing,
Cause every little thing gonna be all right!"

by Quad Fin Rider on Oct 25, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where did Vincent say anything about mandatory retirement?

I never wrote that he did.

He talked about providing incentives to umpires to retire at 55 (or anytime thereafter).

That has nothing to do with “mandatory” anything.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Oct 25, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The age thing is simply genius

therefore it will be ignored. Selig will argue “experience and such.” It’s like old people and driving; everyone knows they shouldn’t be allowed to do it but no one has the heart to take it away from them. It’s a young man’s game so it should be supervised by young(er) men*.

*I don’t mean this in a sexist way. I’d be more than happy to have women umpires.

Captain, there are doubt's...

by Match Day 5 on Oct 25, 2009 11:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Ageist!

;-p

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Oct 25, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not that I'm in a position to judge.

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Oct 25, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was going to lose one way or another.

Captain, there are doubt's...

by Match Day 5 on Oct 25, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why it won't happen is...

because Selig now knows who he can “count on” when he needs something to “happen”, especially for one of his pet teams. You know, because it’s “good for the game” (wink wink).
The same stuff happens in the NBA, and those guys really need to be energetic.

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Oct 25, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And if someone doesn't play along

he knows he’s got desperate minor league umps willing to do “whatever it takes” to finally get to the bigs.
How in the hell did people let Selig fall into that job, and keep it? And it is NEVER talked about in mainstream media.

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Oct 25, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A lot of peolpe feel that way

but as a former owner of a small market team do you really think that he wants the Yanks, Sox, and Braves dominating the playoffs every year? Also, do you think the league owners (of whom Selig is just a puppet) want that? Baseball is a regional sport so there is no real benefit, other than a guaranteed sellout when they are in town, to having only a few teams that contend year after year.

The real Selig conspiracy, in my opinion, is not that he cares who wins on the field, but that he lets the owners do as they please without regard to how that plays out on the field. He lets owners blow up their payroll or he lets owners run their team into the ground.

Captain, there are doubt's...

by Match Day 5 on Oct 25, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"a former owner"

The family’s got nothing to do with that anymore and they made a sweet deal to sell it at its peak with a brand new stadium. Meanwhile Buddy Boy’s been making well over 8 figures in yearly salary. He’s the CEO of MLB.
There was a time when he was protecting the small market teams but now it’s all about BIG TV contracts, Internet deals, International branding, ESPN, Media fawning, and Merchandise sales. Selig sold out any type of real salary cap, because he doesn’t compete anymore.

And you’re right, baseball was traditionally a regional sport, so what has happened? He’s just made everybody decide whether they’re Yankee or Red Sox fans, while the rest are mostly just glorified minor league teams for the Yankees, Red Sox, and a couple of other teams at any given time.
His expanded playoffs provided just enough parity so that even if one of those teams happen to go to the World Series with a small payroll, it just makes the argument that a salary cap isn’t really necessary.

Now it’s “What’s good for the Red Yankees is good for baseball”.

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Oct 25, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

In actuality

The best thing that could have happened for baseball would have been the Yankees winning 10 straight WS titles, because then arguing against leveling the playing field for everybody would have had no credibility whatsoever.

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Oct 25, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think wha the Yanks have done since 95

and what the braves did during the 90s made that argument. And you’re right, adding the extra playoff round pretty much muted any discussions regarding the lack of parity.

Captain, there are doubt's...

by Match Day 5 on Oct 25, 2009 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Women umpires

Didn’t they try that once ?..and as I recall it didn’t turn out that well.

by butterfly on Oct 25, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It seems to me that an older umpire or a younger one

still has to stay clear and out of the way of the players when the ball is in play, but close enough to see the play and make a call. Many times this is not physically possible. Often I have seen botched or controversial calls happen when the umpire is facing the back side of a player blocking the view of the ball in play. This is always going to happen whether the umpire is young or old, male or female. I these cases they have to make the call to the best of their ability and sometimes on replay it becomes clear the call was mistakenly made. Other than installing replay in some form, I don’t think the age of the umpire is that significant other than maybe being able to move a little more quickly into position on a small percentage of plays.

The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com

by 44FAN on Oct 25, 2009 12:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

but a female ump can't putt

because…you know

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Oct 26, 2009 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of umps....

can someone tell me why the OF line umps in the playoffs are positioned about 25 feet behind the 3b or 1b umps? What is the point?

Miss you Nick...! RIP

by K3YEROUT on Oct 25, 2009 1:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It gets lonely out there.

Plus they are positioning themselves to see the whole of the foul pole.

by eyespy on Oct 25, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, that worked out well for Joe Mauer didn't it?

Just another Halo victory
http://www.ihatejoebuck.com/

by HalosFanInNorCal on Oct 25, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The dumb ass

was thinking that Damon was surely going to make the catch so he was watching that.

by eyespy on Oct 25, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the same way that McLelland "expected" one of the base runners to tag up?

Just another Halo victory
http://www.ihatejoebuck.com/

by HalosFanInNorCal on Oct 25, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Corecttomundo

The Yankees can do no wrong

by eyespy on Oct 25, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the Baseball Industrial Complex won't let them, too much $$$$ involved

Just another Halo victory
http://www.ihatejoebuck.com/

by HalosFanInNorCal on Oct 25, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Vincent is a moron.

Paying people more = higher quality people? Are they having difficulty finding umpires? I think not. Is the pool of applicants so deficient that they are promoting underqualified umpires? Again, no.

They need younger umpires? Again, where are the stats that back this up? Vincent wants to mix things up for the sake of mixing things up. If his arguments had any merit, I would seriously entertain them. But, really, getting people to retire at 55 seems pretty arbitrary. Logan’s Run anybody?

John Lackey: "We fly flags."

by LazorkoRules on Oct 25, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Missing the point

Vincent isn’t mandating that umpires retire at 55, he is advocating providing retirement incentives to encourage some to retire at 55 if they want to do so. Look at the roster of umpires currently; you’ll find several who are into their 60s at this point. I am nowhere near that age, but I surely don’t want to spend a day wearing a black uniform, a chest protector and mask, making calls in the 90-degree temps with 90% humidity in the air. We lose sight of the fact that these men are called upon to run about in the field (to track a play) or stand behind the plate wearing body armor, and almost to the man they are older than the players on the field, even older than some of the managers of those teams.

We should not expect peak performance from these men as they get into their late 50s and beyond, given the athletic requirements of the job, the weather conditions during the height of Summer, and the air travel necessary.

Furthermore, Vincent’s argument was never that the umpires being promoted were under-qualified, but that there is a dearth of openings to allow new umpires to get their opportunities to graduate to the bigs. Given the paltry salaries paid to umps in the minors, it doesn’t encourage the best among them to apply and serve the apprenticeships required to be considered, especially if the number of openings at the top are so limited. Umps in the minors make from $1800 to $3500 a month in a job which lasts only 5 months; MLB umps make $100K to $300K annually with a per diem of $350. Look at how many “legacies” there are in the ranks (the Wendelstedts, the Runges, the Welkes, the Crawfords and so forth), and you’ll see that knowing someone is about the only sure way to climb to the top of the ladder; otherwise, it is a long wait for someone in his 60s to decide to hang it up.

And nobody wants to see another John McSherry die on the field…

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Oct 25, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No offense, but this is the weakest argument I have ever read.

The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com

by 44FAN on Oct 25, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you meant 2nd weakest argument, right?

http://www.halosheaven.com/2009/10/20/1093936/tim-mcclelland-verifies-the

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Oct 25, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would you like to be specific?

Or would you rather lob scuds from safety?

I’m providing my understanding of what Vincent wrote, which I felt was being misrepresented in the previous post.

If you have an opinion on the matter, then speak out. Vague criticism adds nothing.

No offense, of course…

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Oct 25, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought that MLB was requiring Umps to be in better shape

which is why they didn’t reinstate Eric Gregg. Yet Jabba the Ump can’t get low enough to see the strike zone so Napoli has to lay down to catch.

I like the idea of physical tests, hand/eye, being able to move and position effectively. That would/should weed out the old guys (being an old guy myself I’d say so sad, too bad…time moves on and so should they)

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Oct 26, 2009 6:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs