Would it have been different with Cliff Lee?

by Angelsrthebest101 on Oct 28, 2009 8:35 PM PDT

Well for people who watched game 1 of the world series, Cliff Lee was outstanding. The Angels had a chance to get him in July from the Indians. Instead the Angels settled for Kazmir later in the season. Instead of Kazmir we would have Cliff Lee defending AL cy young. Kazmir cost the Angels game 4 and game 6, so Cliff Lee would have definitely helped. He shut down the Yankees and has had a great postseason. Just a question would it been a different if the Angels just would have taken the bullet and aquired Cliff Lee?

Poll

Would the Angels have made the World Series if they aquired Lee instead of Kazmir?

Yes, he is an ace like pitcher

124 votes

No, the Angels wouldn't have made it regardless

30 votes

154 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

The implication here...

…is that we had what it takes.

The Phillies traded four of their top ten prospects to the Indians for Lee.

All of these prospects were rated higher than our highest-rated prospect.

You cannot trade in your Schwinn at the Rolls Royce dealership.

by Rev Halofan on Oct 28, 2009 8:41 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

This is a solid point.

But damned if watching Lee dominate the Yankees didn’t make me sigh wistfully.

Especially as he wears #34 and is standing up there in a red uniform while he does the dominating.

Rest in piece Nick, Courtney, and Henry. To the 2009 Angels: I love you all. Thanks for a ride every bit as enjoyable and entertaining as 2002.

by AlanFalcon on Oct 29, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions

answer to your question...yes it would have been different w/Lee.

too bad we couldn’t have traded SRod and 2 prospects for him…like in the Kaz deal.

What would you have wanted to trade for him…a weaver/saundo, wood and aybar type deal?

by figgifig on Oct 28, 2009 8:59 PM PDT reply actions

Because Lee would have scored so many runs against the Yankees

by Rev Halofan on Oct 28, 2009 9:11 PM PDT reply actions

But we did score at least one in each game.

Therefore we would’ve had a chance.

Nick would be proud.

by halofan4life on Oct 28, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Lee isn't known for hitting well with men on base.

Captain, there are doubt's...

by Match Day 5 on Oct 28, 2009 9:21 PM PDT reply actions

But he did

have a nice SB during the ALDS.

by turs12 on Oct 29, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Did any of you watch the game tonight? We listened sporadically, then watched the last couple of innings.

Lee was great and pitched a complete game. There was a little gem of a catch behind his back:

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=7099163&topic_id=7224330

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Oct 28, 2009 11:34 PM PDT reply actions

Didn't watch a bit.

Glad to hear the Phillies won, nullifying my prediction of a Yankee sweep.

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Oct 29, 2009 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions

The Halos came within one bad pitch by Fuentes from taking the Yankees to a game 7.

And we all know just how crappy the Halos played in the ALCS. Therefore, it would not be reasonable to expect that the Yankees are playing at a level that would allow them to crush anybody at the moment.

I wonder what John Lackey must think about how long Sosh left Juan Rivera in the playoff lineup?

by Stirrups on Oct 29, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm glad you were wrong. ;-)

I am just enough of a baseball junkie to be curious about the WS.

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Oct 29, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions

me 2

but I couldn’t bring myself to watch game 1. I had an offer to go and declined that as well.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Oct 31, 2009 5:38 AM PDT up reply actions

I always watch the World Series

That was a great catch.

Lee was dominant

Play Wood already. Willits sucks.

by hauldog on Oct 29, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions

The basket catch was hilarious in addition to the catch behind the back.

The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com

by 44FAN on Oct 29, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions

We were laughing at how nonchalant he was about the catch behind the back.

He didn’t do much of a double-take, just saw it and threw it to first.

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Oct 29, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions

It would have been different had our team played some solid defense.

Cliff Lee or no Cliff Lee.

I love this team.

by Downing Rules on Oct 29, 2009 12:51 AM PDT reply actions

+1

I don’t really think pitching was the primary problem, especially the starters. We played awful defense, ran the bases poorly and couldn’t get on base against CC.

Cliff Lee or no Cliff Lee, we played scared and forgot how to hit.

by Nashdiesel on Oct 29, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions

You had me...

Until you said Kazmir cost us Game 6. I don’t care what you people think… he did not cost us Game 6.

by kle18 on Oct 29, 2009 1:32 AM PDT reply actions

Agreed

Saundo let that game get out of hand early

RIP #34

by linkbruin on Oct 29, 2009 3:47 AM PDT up reply actions

And....

the ump made a horrific call on that obvious strike to A-Roid. I would also ask Scioscia why he brought in Kazmir instead of Weaver in that pivital 8th inning.

by Christhammer on Oct 29, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions

yeah well we still had a chance and he put it out of reach

Bring back Lackey

by Angelsrthebest101 on Oct 29, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Yes

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes

by johnnyangel101 on Oct 29, 2009 8:17 AM PDT reply actions

We didn't lose because of pitching

but with better pitching, we would have had a better chance of winning. Lee went 9 innings. Our bullpen had moments when they looked like they were tossing lit matches at gas cans.

Better defense and The Angels would have won more games. With Lee pitching, we would be in the World Series.

But that isn’t saying he could have even been had.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces

by Jay Cal on Oct 29, 2009 10:34 AM PDT reply actions

Yes, if we had Cliff Lee things would have been different.

His strike zone would’ve been squeezed in addition to Lackey’s, Kazmirs, Saundo’s and our entire ’pen.

YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....

by halofolife on Oct 29, 2009 11:28 AM PDT reply actions

Yep. Lee would have the same issues that all the Halo starters had...

…same rust-bucket defense.
…same rust-bucket offense.
…same strike zone issues.
…same field umpiring challenges.
…and same manager temperament for the hook.

I wonder what John Lackey must think about how long Sosh left Juan Rivera in the playoff lineup?

by Stirrups on Oct 29, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions

I was watching last night with the exact same thought.

I was under the assumption we could’ve had him, if we had given up Howie Kendrick and some other pieces. Maybe not though, who knows.

I've got nothing.

by bc56274 on Oct 29, 2009 12:57 PM PDT reply actions

You have to think Tony Reagins probably tried for Lee....

The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com

by 44FAN on Oct 29, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Reagins

I honestly think Reagins sole effort was Halliday. And Toronto’s asking price was way to high. By the time Reagins even thought about Lee he was in Philly. I don’t even know where the Kazmir deal came from. Took me completely by surprise.

by Baylorsgroove on Nov 1, 2009 1:12 AM PDT reply actions

Kazmir

That had been on the Angels’ radar for months.

It took awhile for the teams to agree, largely because the Angels needed to be convinced Kazmir had turned a corner and the Rays needed to know their 2009 pennant chase was over. But it was known for months that Kazmir could be obtained and I suspect Butcher watched enough of the videos of Kazmir to vouch for his health and ability to be reclaimed.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Nov 1, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions

If you're right, Reagins should be fired

I suspect that we couldn’t afford him (see Rev’s post above)

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

by Moondoggy on Nov 3, 2009 7:33 AM PST up reply actions

I think they had it

They offered a hell of a lot for Kaz gave up Sean Rodriguez, Mike Sweeny, and Torres. They could have offered that and a solid pitcher. If they truly wanted that they could have gotten him

Bring back Lackey

by Angelsrthebest101 on Nov 3, 2009 9:37 PM PST reply actions

You don't know that

You’re not paying attention to the price the Phillies paid for Lee—it is miles beyond the cost of Kazmir, who was more of a salary dump.

The price of Lee would have most likely included Reckling, S-Rod, Conger and more. Look at the talent level of the players the Indians acquired from Philadelphia.

Furthermore, the problem the Angels had in the postseason really wasn’t related to starting pitching. It was shockingly bad (for a Scioscia team) defense and lack of timely hitting. Lee wouldn’t have made a difference in either of those categories.

And if you really think Reagins wasn’t in touch, then you’re really not paying attention.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Nov 4, 2009 6:21 AM PST up reply actions

Lee

One other thing—while he has generally been a shot in the arm for the Phillies (whose starting pitching was so weak that Pedro found a home there, very much unlike the Angels), he could very easily have been the loser of Game 5 and watched the Yankees celebrate on his home field. He gave up 5 runs over 7 IP, and it was because Burnett pitched worse that the Phillies lived to fight another day.

Don’t get too wrapped up in how good you imagine any single player to be. It is still a team sport.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Nov 4, 2009 6:53 AM PST up reply actions