Lackey or Halladay: Why Not Both?
by expoforever on Nov 11, 2009 1:19 PM PST
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For a second let's pretend that financial constraints are not an issue... If the Angels are willing to spend the money to keep John Lackey and are also willing to part with some of their current players in order to land Roy Halladay should Lackey go elsewhere, why should the Angels not try and land both players? Their chances of putting together a lineup that will crush their way to a World Series like the Yankees have are slim to none given the current players available on the market. However, the current players available do give the Angels an opportunity to put together the best pitching rotation on the game.
The Angels have established that they can win their division with relative ease, now it's time to start building towards that next step which is making it to the World Series. A pitching rotation that is anchored by Halladay, Lackey, and Scott Kazmir would not need as much run support as this year's pitching staff did. As such, losing the likes of Chone Figgins and Vladimir Guerrero (though he is my favorite player of all time) would provide the Angels with the financial flexibility necessary to sign John Lackey and acquire Roy Halladay. In addition, by signing John Lackey the Angels could afford to trade Joe Saunders or Jered Weaver to the Blue Jays in order to acquire Halladay. Even if the Angels traded both those players to Toronto in order to get the deal done, a pitching rotation of Roy Halladay, John Lackey, Scott Kazmir, Ervin Santana, and Sean O'Sullivan could still be the best in baseball.
A one-two punch of Halladay and Lackey, in my opinion, would be better than that of the Yankees and quite possibly every other team in the American League. Their statistics from 2009 would suggest the same. Playing for a far inferior team in the Toronto Blue Jays, Roy Halladay had a lower ERA, a lower WHIP, more innings pitched, and more strikeouts than CC Sabathia did. In fact, CC Sabathia won only two more games than Roy Halladay despite pitching for a team that scored 117 more runs than the Blue Jays. John Lackey, though he did miss time on the DL for the second consecutive year, had a better ERA and a significantly better WHIP than A.J. Burnett.
If the Angels want to give themselves a chance to win a championship, then they have to be willing to make a couple big moves much like the Yankees did last winter. Though the Angels will never match the Yankees payroll, given the salaries that are coming of the books this winter, going after the top two pitchers on the market should be within Arte Moreno's capabilities. If the Angels truly want to contend for a title they cannot settle for being as good as they were last year, they need to get better. While they certainly did "contend" since they made it to the ALCS, it's hard to imagine how the 2009 Angels could beat the Yankees even if they replayed the series ten times over. While this idea may, at first, seem overly ambitious, I do believe it is within the realm of possibilities.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Imagine the pastabilities
2011: The year of Angels World Domination
by LazorkoRules on Nov 11, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ramen!
Nick, you will always be an Angel. And you will be missed.
by anaheimisnotla on Nov 11, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
Arr. May his noodly appendage reach out and be a-touchin' ye!
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
some thoughts
- What good would it be to have a groundball pitcher and not a solid defense behind him? Thus, we can’t move Aybar, and that could be a deal breaker. Maybe Wood gets the deal done, but Izturis is NOT our 3B, and Chone has earned the right to let someone else pay him more than we are willing. A stopgap 3B like Beltre or Uribe or Feliz or DeRosa is not the option for an organization like ours.
- I’d take my chances with 3 years of Weaver than 1 with Halladay. Your plan is contingent on Lackey resigning. Right now, that’s a big IF. I AM okay with moving Saunders and Walden and Conger, and hoping today’s number two prospect can move quickly before Napoli and Mathis look around.
- Lastly, we are not the Yankees. We make smart trades, and the occasional FA signing. We don’t need to make a move just to make a move. We will still win the division, and take our chances in the crapshoot. Don’t forget about the trade deadline—Ninja has made two splashes in two seasons, and neither was expected.
www.13stoploss.com
The infield thing doesn't worry me...
I’m unsure on how much it matters…
And thank you for your service.
"Figgins' OBP is still over 40!" -Steve Physioc
by Figgi4life on Nov 11, 2009 3:08 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Pitching wins
I would love to see both of them pitching for the Angels next season, but not at the price of gutting the team for the next 5 years after. We cannot lose Aybar. We need to keep Figgins. I think we either re-sign Vlad or get Adam Dunn to DH.
I also think we should re-sign Escobar to a minor league deal with an invite to spring traiing. Who knows, maybe after sitting out the year he might regain his old touch and be a real cheap surprise.
It would sure make for a nice rotation.
It’ll never happen. But, it’s a nice thought.
The scary thing would be seeing Lackey join the Yankee’s rotation. That just might happen. And if it does you know the media will never stop drooling over the “best rotation in baseball.” I sure don’t want to have to listen to that.
OK, I'm finally over losing Tex. Thanks Kendry.
Why does everybody think Abyar's so untouchable?
Whenever I see him, all I can think about is that missed suicide squeeze. After Donnie Moore in ’86, one of the worst moments in Angels history.
How about his 2 out, 2 strike hit against Papelbon in Game 3 of the 2009 ALDS In Boston that sparked our victory?
#34, never forget.
that mostly redeemed Aybar for me
I can’t hate the guy the sealed the fate of Boston.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
1995
is worse than the suicide squeeze
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on Nov 11, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
hw about his game winning hit
the night before the botched squeeze?
Aybar will be an Angel thru his arbitration years if not more…
Do you go to any Angel games?
Have you seen the stellar defense… that by the way will only get better. We MUST keep Aybar!
Light up the Freakin Halo!
Aybar might've started what is the second greatest Angel comback ever...
against the Red Sox in this ALDS Game three against papelboner…
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Nov 11, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
That's a damn shame
Whenever I see him, all I can think about is that missed suicide squeeze.
That means you missed an entire season of one of the most exciting and talented SS in all of baseball.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Nov 12, 2009 7:24 AM PST up reply actions
And he should have gotten the GG.
I’ve had to eat a lot of crow this year, regarding Aybar, but I have to say he has impressed me.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
I'm right there with you...
I hated Aybar and had to not only eat crow, but then drink a tall glass of shut the hell up juice, because Aybar was killing it all year.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
The difference this year...
We weren’t much worse of a team than Yankees this year, offensively or defensively. We just made some poor plays that cost us, and didn’t get a couple of clutch hits when we needed them. I honestly think we can win the World Series without making any huge changes. I think Scioscia agrees. He said if it were up to him, he’d keep everything the way it is. My opinion is that our biggest upgrades should be in the bullpen. We need a real closer. I don’t want to trade away young talent for one season of Hallady when we can already win it all without him.
No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.
by Rally Manatee on Nov 11, 2009 5:59 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Keep it the way it is = good idea.
But that means keeping Lackey. I think the odds are in our favor. But what if that doesn’t happen? What if he goes to the Yankees? Angels – Lackey vs. Yankees + Lackey = not a series we can blame on defensive mishaps. We’re dead in that situation.
RIP NA
Yeah, if Lackey goes to NY or Boston
or any other foreseeable post season opponent, we’d be much better off landing a Halladay or some other ace. However, I also don’t want to discount Weaver’s ability. He looks on his way to ace-dome.
No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.
by Rally Manatee on Nov 11, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
True
Lost in all the hand wringing about what “needs to be done” is a very simple fact: Take away one poor pitch to Alex Rodriguez in the extra innings of Game 2 and the odds are strong that the Angels go home to Anaheim with the ALCS tied 1-1.
That is not an insignificant change, because the difference between being down 0-2 and tied 1-1 effectively shifts the home field advantage to the Angels, in addition to putting some swagger in their play. If Games 3-5 played out the same way, the Yankees would have returned to NY needing to win both games, while the Angels would have needed only win one of the two. The sense of desperation would not have been there, which could have led to stronger defensive play, with guys like Izturis not needing to play as if they have to make the miracle defensive gem to save the game, and cause the game to bust wide open instead.
Furthermore, remember that Game 2: The Angels and Saunders ($475K) played the Yankees and Burnett ($16.5M) to a draw for twelve innings, with role players like Jepsen and Oiiver shutting down the vaunted Yankee offense in the late innings. This is a team the Angels could have beaten, the very players who received a heroes parade in Manhattan and ignited talk of a “dynasty” for the years to come.
Just one pitch. That’s not to heap the blame upon Fuentes, but merely to point out how close both teams were to one another. As much as Yankee fans might want to claim domination, the Angels were one pitch away from a very different outcome to the ALCS and another trip to the World Series—to play a team it could have taken in seven.
So, yeah, getting Halladay isn’t a bad move—as long as it doesn’t mortgage the future. Signing Lackey to a contract isn’t a bad move—as long as the terms aren’t so goofy that it ties up payroll unnecessarily in the future. But this team is capable of great things even with neither pitcher on the roster. Assuming the team returns to postseason play in 2010, the “kids” like Aybar and Kendrick become veterans, the confidence is greater, the desire stronger, just as we saw in the ALDS against the Red Sox.
Honest to God, I am not worried about 2010. I am just eager for April to arrive. And redemption.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Nov 12, 2009 7:22 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Do you have a news letter I can subscribe too?
Thanks
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
Yes
But I’m warning you, I have no scruples and will sell your email address to Amway, the Church of Scientology, and a dozen companies eager to sell you Viagra.
That’s fair warning.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Nov 12, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
I was okay with the Scientology and Viagra
But fuck Amway.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
So you're cool...
…as long as your Thetians get boner pills?
You’re more reasonable than most.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Nov 13, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
For a second let's pretend that financial constraints are not an issue...
For a second let’s pretend we won the world series….
And that we have infinite moniez…..
And that my penis wasn’t laughably small….
We can all dream.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
by PhiSlamma on Nov 11, 2009 7:49 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
grower or a show-er?
too much?
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Nov 11, 2009 10:28 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, the whole argument hinges on a hypothetical
“What if…”
The only magic number now is #34
by Teixeira Who? on Nov 12, 2009 2:07 AM PST up reply actions
I'd also like to subscribe to your newsletter.
thanks
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
1 year of Halladay will not cost the angels the world.
He will definitely be traded this offseason because his value will only decrease in the future and he will not go to an AL East competitor because it hurts the Jays rebuilding efforts. The Jays cannot expect to get an Aybar at this point because no team is going to meet the price J.P. demanded with 1 year left in his contract.
The Angels will be one of the few teams with a very real chance to trade for Halladay. The bigger problem will be trying to retain Lackey after the Yankees throw piles of cash in his direction.
NA 34
Buster on Lackey today also...
If you want John Lackey, it will be pricey. Sources say he turned down $72 million from the Angels earlier this year, the team’s last offer.
about 5 hours ago from web
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
Are YOU paying those salaries?
If so, call Arte and let him know you’re offering to pitch in. Having 2/5 of the rotation pulling down about $35M between the two of them is very Yankee-esque, but not really the Angels’ style.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Nov 22, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
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