Joe Mauer 2009 SBN AL MVP

by Rev Halofan on Nov 12, 2009 11:00 AM PST in News Comment 34 comments

The catcher for the Minnesota Twins, might have seen his team robbed in the playoffs but Joe Mauer is the SBN AL MVP. Voting particulars are after the page break - some Angels made it, take a peek and see if you agree...

Rk	Player	Team	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th	8th	9th	10th	Pts
1	Joe Mauer	Minnesota Twins	24	3	1	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	371
2	Ben Zobrist	Tampa Bay Rays	-	10	6	2	2	1	-	1	-	-	172
3	Mark Teixeira	New York Yankees	2	3	2	4	3	2	7	1	-	-	158
4	Derek Jeter	New York Yankees	1	5	3	4	4	2	1	1	2	1	157
5	Evan Longoria	Tampa Bay Rays	-	2	4	1	2	3	2	3	2	1	106
6	Zack Greinke	Kansas City Royals	2	3	2	1	1	-	2	-	-	-	92
7	Miguel Cabrera	Detroit Tigers	-	-	3	1	2	4	-	2	-	5	74
8	Kevin Youkilis	Boston Red Sox	-	2	-	-	1	3	1	8	1	-	69
9	Chone Figgins	Los Angeles Angels	-	-	-	3	4	1	-	1	3	1	60
10	Jason Bay	Boston Red Sox	-	1	-	4	2	-	-	1	-	2	54
11	Kendry Morales	Los Angeles Angels	-	-	4	-	-	1	-	-	1	-	39
12	Ichiro Suzuki	Seattle Mariners	-	-	1	-	2	-	1	2	2	3	37
13	Franklin Gutierrez	Seattle Mariners	-	-	-	1	1	1	3	-	1	2	34
14	Justin Verlander	Detroit Tigers	-	-	-	2	1	1	1	-	1	1	32
15	Felix Hernandez	Seattle Mariners	-	-	-	2	-	-	1	3	2	-	31
16	Jason Bartlett	Tampa Bay Rays	-	-	1	1	1	-	-	-	-	1	22
17	Alex Rodriguez	New York Yankees	-	-	1	-	1	-	1	-	-	-	18
18	Roy Halladay	Toronto Blue Jays	-	-	-	1	-	1	1	-	-	-	16
19	Adam Lind	Toronto Blue Jays	-	-	-	-	-	2	-	-	1	4	16
20	Dustin Pedroia	Boston Red Sox	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	4	1	13
21	Bobby Abreu	Los Angeles Angels	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	1	1	-	12
22	Aaron Hill	Toronto Blue Jays	-	-	-	-	-	1	1	1	-	-	12
23	Mariano Rivera	New York Yankees	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	1	1	9
24	Torii Hunter	Los Angeles Angels	-	-	1	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	8
25	Brian Roberts	Baltimore Orioles	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	1	-	-	7
26	CC Sabathia	New York Yankees	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	1	-	6
27	Carl Crawford	Tampa Bay Rays	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	1	1	6
28	J.D. Drew	Boston Red Sox	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	-	5
29	Jon Lester	Boston Red Sox	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	-	5
30	Jonathan Papelbon	Boston Red Sox	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	-	5
31	Robinson Cano	New York Yankees	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	-	5
32	Victor Martinez	Boston Red Sox	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	-	5
33	Michael Cuddyer	Minnesota Twins	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	4
34	Shin-Soo Choo	Cleveland Indians	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	-	-	4
35	Michael Young	Texas Rangers	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	1	3
36	Jacoby Ellsbury	Boston Red Sox	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	2
37	Jason Kubel	Minnesota Twins	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	-	2
38	Alex Gonzalez	Boston Red Sox	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	1
39	Nick Markakis	Baltimore Orioles	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	1	1

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Comments

Ben Zobrist? 2nd?

That was a suprise to see. He had a good season, but that was definitely a suprise to see.

We're putting the band back togehter.

by billhune on Nov 12, 2009 11:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Shouldn't be if you were paying attension. He was the best player in the AL not named Mauer.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Nov 12, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I strongly disagree

I would have voted him tenth in the AL. I thought all the guys in the top ten were acurate just completely in the wrong order.

by ryanfea on Nov 12, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He was one of the 5 or 6 best offensive players in the AL this year.

But defense counts too and he was absolutely fantastic at it this season.

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by Tyler on Nov 12, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

5th or 6th best?

I guess so, until one actually looks it up. Then, once faced with reality, not so much.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Nov 12, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

My bad. I may have underrated him.

His OPS was 3th in the league among qualified hitters, tied with Tex. 4th in the league in OBP, 7th in SLG and his wOBA was 3rd. I really can’t see a legitimate argument that he wasn’t one of the Top-5 hitters in the league. Combine that with the fact that his defense was absolutely fantastic no matter where he played.

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by Tyler on Nov 12, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You wrote "5th or 6th best offensive players in the AL this year."

OPS = 4th (yep)
OPB = 4th (yep)
BB = 6th (yep)

But…
SLG = 8th
Triples = 10th
RBIs = 21st
Runs scored = 23rd
HRs = 23rd
Total Bases = 25th
Hits = 47th
Doubles = 50th
ABs = 57th

Oh, yeah, and AVE = 33rd

So…productive? Hell yeah. But “5th or 6th best in the entire AL”? Because he walks a lot? No, not so much.

(P.S. – Where do you need me to email your own sortable Excel spreadsheet of the offensive stats for the top 200 AL players based on plate appearances, already sorted on separate worksheets for each of the stats mentioned above?)

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Nov 12, 2009 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Did you actually look up his numbers? Or just look at his average and decide .297 wasn't good enough?

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by Tyler on Nov 12, 2009 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No

It was his lack of RBI’s and runs scored that I didn’t like him. The creation of runs is the most important factor to me. Zobrist had 91 in each, much less than any of the top players. Zobrist did alot of things well but not great.

by ryanfea on Nov 12, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow. I didn't know anyone in 2009 thought RBI's or runs scored were important in judging a player overall performance.

Seriously, that’s absurd. RBI’s and runs scored are two stats that the batter have absolutely no control over. The batter has control over how hard he hits the ball. None, over who’s on base or who gets hits when the player is on base.

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by Tyler on Nov 12, 2009 8:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What a player is able to do when runners are on base is more important then what he does if nobody is on base.

I’ve only played baseball up to a high school level and I know it’s harder to get hits under pressure such as when runners are on and people including fans, teammates, coaches expect you to drive runs in. placing some importance in measuring moments when the game is the most difficault is neccessary. Also like swiss said a couple posts down, if you actually watch the game it should be clear that Texiera, Cabera, and some others played better.

by ryanfea on Nov 12, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure getting hits when runners are on is very important.

It’s not really a skill, but it’s important and Zobrist was exceptionally good at that too. RBI’s depend on people being on base in front of you. Teixeira had more RBI’s than Zobrist because he had more people on base in front of him. Zobrists numbers are off the charts:

Runners on:
Zobrist: .285/.412/.526/.938
Teixeira: .280/.391/.485/.876

RISP:
Z: .320/.454/.592/1.046
T: .264/.401/.471/.872

RISP w/ 2 outs:
Z: .310/.474/.569 /1.043
T: .355/.494/.597/1.091

WPA:
Z: 4.10
T: 3.58

At bats with runners on:
Z: 228
T: 307

Having more opportunities to drive in runners does not make you a better player, it just means you have more opportunities.

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by Tyler on Nov 13, 2009 5:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good stuff

Beyond the Boxscore Not a member? Sign up.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 13, 2009 7:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

RISP #s

are like cocaine – they are Sooooooooo addictive when a player you like has a good year, but when it is someone you hate you think they should be illegal

by Rev Halofan on Nov 13, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Which is why he should actually be using RC/27

It’s a more sabremetric-acceptable measure anyway and, as it happens, In Runs Created Per 27 Outs, Zobrist actually trumps Tex 8.12 to 7.73.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Nov 13, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

My post was pretty clear I thought. Hitting with RISP isn't a skill.

I was only objecting to this quote in his post:

~~What a player is able to do when runners are on base is more important then what he does if nobody is on base.~~

And the numbers I used illustrated pretty clearly that this season, Zobrist was better at that.

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by Tyler on Nov 13, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure why the quote box turned into strike. Oh well.

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by Tyler on Nov 13, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

stay off the coke

i mean the risp

by Rev Halofan on Nov 13, 2009 11:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Theo Epstien on RBI's:

"You guys can talk about RBIs if you want, I just … we ignore them in the front office … and I think we’ve built some pretty good offensive clubs.

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by Tyler on Nov 12, 2009 8:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

They're irrelevant.

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by Tyler on Nov 12, 2009 8:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right, but here's the deal man

You do know who you’re dealing with, correct?

We Angel fans, for the most part, do have some comprehension of the importance of stats like wOPA, and that “fangraphy” goodness. But since our team can not be explained by numerical means almost every year (Bill James even said it himself), we know that is not the whole story.

We do appreciate your opinion on this stuff, but with all due respect your condescending tone reeks of Internet-know-it-all.

NA R.I.P.

by swiss mcgee on Nov 12, 2009 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I feel like I've been time-warped back to the year 2000 with this discussion.

The funny thing is that you are using stats for your argument too. You have just decided to use stats that are entirely useless (RBI, Runs).

"Ninety percent [of my salary] I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
-Tug McGraw

by BTLove on Nov 14, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a bit of a stretch - Teixeira was definitely better

But I see where you’re coming from, especially when looking at Zobrist’s OPS+

NA R.I.P.

by swiss mcgee on Nov 12, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

How wat Teixeria better? His OPS was exactly the same. Zobrist had a better OBP and wOBA, which is probably the best measurement.

Added to that he played 2B most of the season and played it fantastically. Even when he was playing RF, he was a plus defender still playing a tougher defensive position. I don’t see much of an argument for Tex being better player THIS season, especially considering defense and the positional adjustment.

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by Tyler on Nov 12, 2009 5:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's something you probably can't comprehend - Actually watching them play

I saw them both play a few times this year, and a few more times on the tube, and I thought Teixeira played better. I said it was a bit of a stretch…and I’m an impartial observer of these two guys – which should be worth something.

NA R.I.P.

by swiss mcgee on Nov 12, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I've seen them both play plenty of times this season.

I watched Zobrist play about 100 times this year and saw Tex probably 15. Was Tex fantastic offensively? Absolutely. So was Zobrist. Teixeira had more plate appearances and was slightly more valuable offensively. Not because he was better offensively, but because he played more and accumulated more value. That counts. But he was also a 1B, which makes what he does for the team less valuable because of position sacristy. Is he a great defensive 1B? Yes. But Zobrist was a great defensive 2B and OFer, which is more valuable.

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by Tyler on Nov 13, 2009 5:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

My first three votes went to Mauer, Jeter, and Morales

then it went…Teixeira, Cabrera, Lind, Longoria, Abreu, Kubel, and Suzuki.

Looking back on it, I should have had Figgins in there instead of Kubel or Suzuki (I was the only one to vote for Kubel).

I’d be happy to debate my picks.

by WiHaloFan on Nov 12, 2009 11:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Having Morales in your top 3 was probably a gigantic mistake.

You could argue pretty convincingly he wasn’t one of the 3 most valuable 1B in the American League. Figgins was significantly better than him. He should probably be in your Top-5.

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by Tyler on Nov 12, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs