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The latest iteration of the Halladay to Angels rumour. I suspect they'll want Santana, a catcher, A.N.Other...

2 months ago Keepcalm3_tiny The Limey 73 comments 0 recs  | 

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Just saw this.

Sounds even more tempting. I’d hate to lose one of our good pitchers, but that’s the name of the trading game. We’d still be short one in our five-man, but with a legit ace like Halladay locked in at the top of the rotation, I’d be much more comfy letting someone like Palmer or SOS fill the fifth spot.

I also hope they don’t trade Naps though. Especially if we lose Vlad, we need Nap’s pop.

Also, this trade would mean we can let Lackey walk, still have an ace, re-sign Figgins, and still have money to spare. Hmm.

No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.

by Rally Manatee on Nov 24, 2009 8:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

That was inane

Everything I just said has been said a zillion times already this off-season. I apologize. My only original thought on this particular thread is this: the prospect of a contract extension is what makes this latest development in the Halladay trade saga intriguing. I was against trading for him before, but that sweetens the pot for sure.

No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.

by Rally Manatee on Nov 24, 2009 8:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I'm just being greedy

The assumption is that if the Angels are able to trade for Halladay it would be an “alternative” to bringing back Lackey. But, I’d sure like to think that maybe just maybe we could get both Halladay AND Lackey. I know how much the organization values pitching. And this would give us almost a dream starting rotation. One that would surpass even the Evil Empire.

OK, I'm finally over losing Tex. Thanks Kendry.

by 10 27 02 on Nov 24, 2009 8:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'd much rather

Trade for Halladay and re-sign Lackey over Figgins. I also wouldn’t mind a trade for Halladay and a trade for SF’s Cain.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces

by Jay Cal on Nov 24, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why would San Francisco trade Cain?

And what would the Angels have to trade for him? Let’s get real. Cain isn’t going anywhere, and neither is Greinke, Yet I keep seeing Halo fans posting this silliness.

by Turks Teeth on Nov 24, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It was speculated on AM830

By Bigs and Jason.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces

by Jay Cal on Nov 24, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Which means

it ain’t happening.

by dmhead on Nov 24, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

90% of the diatribes we read on this board

Aren’t going to happen. It never stopped anyone from throwing their 2 cents in.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces

by Jay Cal on Nov 24, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

IF we can get Lackey and try to trade for Halladay...

then Weav might be included in the deal.

They want power. We want respect...

by SenorChuckles on Nov 24, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My question is -- can you do it w/out giving up Saunders/Weaver/Santana?

We’ve got a boatload of catching depth (Budde and Wilson scream out to be moved at this point, Conger/Ramirez are legitimate good prospects, and there’s always the tandem at the big-club level). We’ve got a boatload of pitching prospects, none of whom appears to me to be untouchable. If we want to roll the dice we can always move Izturis. You can harvest a lot of bodies from just those groups.

But turning the starting rotation into 3 pitchers & 2 prayers? No thanks.

by mattwelch on Nov 24, 2009 8:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Why would it be TWO prayers in the rotation?

Halladay
Kazmir
2 of the following 3 (I feel like I’m ordering at Black Angus)
Saunders
Santana
Weaver

I count 4 legitimate major league starters.

Yes, the 5th spot would be a prayer, but we can probably fill that somewhat easily. Or am I missing something?

"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes

by johnnyangel101 on Nov 24, 2009 8:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yr right; my bad math, sorry

Still don’t like it. But I’m a rotation depth-junkie. The ghost of Pat Rapp hasn’t yet left my building.

by mattwelch on Nov 24, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude

Pat Rapp was the man! He threw the only no-hitter…of my baseball video game career.

I’m not very good at video games.

1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com

by Slasher52 on Nov 24, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ken Hill, Tim Belcher, and Ismael Valdez called

actually, Valdez left a voicemail.

They all said fuck you for forgetting them.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Nov 24, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It'll probably be Saunders or Weaver.

Seeing as how Santana signed that four year deal last year. Whereas with Saunders or Weave they are still just entering arb. and much cheaper.

Nick would be proud.

by halofan4life on Nov 24, 2009 8:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd give up Weaver

If it lowered the overall cost of the deal.

The reason is that Weaver will file for free agency after the 2011 season—as a Boras client, we all know this will be the case. Saunders, on the other hand, may be amenable to an extension comparable to the one signed by Santana, which provides a stable core to the rotation with Halladay signed for a few more years as well.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Nov 24, 2009 9:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

man that's a tough call.

Weaver was fantastic this year. And he looks like he’s growing into an ACE. But Weaver certainly has the best value and like GK says his agent will be looking for a huge payday in 2011.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces

by Jay Cal on Nov 24, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i see your point

it is tough call. but shouldn`t we milk weaver for all we can before he dons the pinstripes or red sox? santana has been the least dependable of the three. i`d prefer to keep both weaver and saunders. but i bet they`re not gonna ask for santana.

No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.

by Rally Manatee on Nov 24, 2009 10:21 AM PST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

If MLBTraderumors posters know anything

It seems like they’re going to ask for Santana.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces

by Jay Cal on Nov 24, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Id keep Santana over Weav.

only because I saw him get his first ML win. And if we can get that window to try to sign Halladay to an extension then maybe a Weave/Napoli/Bourjos/Amarista can get it done.

They want power. We want respect...

by SenorChuckles on Nov 24, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You'd keep Santana over Weaver...

…because you saw him get his first ML win???

Can’t argue with that logic. ;)

OK, I'm finally over losing Tex. Thanks Kendry.

by 10 27 02 on Nov 24, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Santana is my boy.

And I remember first hearing of Weave when FSN West said the Angels finally signed this kid Jered and should be a damn good pitcher. Weave’s stock is high and only has 2 years left on his contract. Would the Jays want this if it only lasts 2 years?

I dont see the jay’s settling for Saundo unless we include damn good prospects.

They want power. We want respect...

by SenorChuckles on Nov 24, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Clarification

Weaver isn’t under any long-term contract. His first year of arbitration will be the 2010 season. That puts him under team control for the next 3 years.

Same with Saunders. Unless the Angels gift him with a deal similar to Santana’s, he’s year-to-year through the 2012 season.

Santana is signed through 2012, with a team option for 2013. He is owed $25M for the next three seasons, with a team option of $13M for 2013, or a $1M buyout, for totals of either $26M or $38M. Kazmir is signed through 2011 for $20M with a 2012 team option of $13.5M or a $2.5M buyout, for totals of either $22.5M or $33.5M remaining.

If a pitcher is to be traded for financial reasons, it would be Weaver or Saunders. Unless one of them wins the Cy in the next few seasons, it is unlikely either of them will total $25M over the next three seasons. If any of the four is to be traded, it figures to be one of the less expensive players.

For that reason, I see Santana and Kazmir as the less likely to go. Saunders and Weaver are the more likely.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Nov 24, 2009 6:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Weaver is the easist choice Only because

he is a Boras client. As it has already been stated, unless we think a World Series cannot be won without Weaver, than he has to stay, otherwise this guy is as good as gone when he becomes a free agent.

As we all know, Scott Boras clients show loyalty to the dollar only.

Bye Bye Weaver.

When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!

by Dono Romantico on Nov 24, 2009 9:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This would definitely be a VERY tough decision for any GM.

Who do you give up? Weav, Saundo or Santana? In my personal opinion, I’d prefer to move Saundo over Weav or Santana, because, again, in my opinion, they have better stuff. Although, Saundo is one hell of a tenacious fighter, with a pit bull attitude. Again, very tough call. Its probably a moot point however, as I don’t see us having what the Jays will demand.

YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....

by halofolife on Nov 24, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

pit bull attitude

that`s why i`ve been calling him junkyard joe since his rookie year. i dig him. maybe it`s being in the fraternity of lefties with him. besides that, he`s been more consistent than santana.

No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.

by Rally Manatee on Nov 24, 2009 12:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

wouldn't moving weaver for Halladay

be considered “milking Weaver” for quite a lot?

 Plus the Angels really don’t want to deal with Borass. This may be why Toronto possibly won’t even want Weaver.

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Nov 25, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was after 2012, 3 more years

That’s why I wouldn’t give up Weaver or Sondo. Santana, ok.

I am fan various years ago.

by Fred Fredrix on Nov 24, 2009 5:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right

my error.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Nov 24, 2009 5:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think so. Toronto has been explicit that they want pitching in return.

We’d be lucky if they look just Santana.

I think it takes something like Santana + Wood/Napoli + Bourjos to get him.

If that happens, the Halos should pick up the flyer on Rich Harden. High risk, high reward, and they still have Palmer/O’Sullivan to feel in the gaps if Harden returns to the DL. But the potential upside of Halliday/Weaver/Harden/Kazmir/Saunders is plenty high if you can get all of them healthy for half a season.

by Turks Teeth on Nov 24, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Though

It isn’t THAT difficult giving up a pitcher like Santana, it would be SO hard giving up Wood at this point.

We’ve waited this long for Wood to finally get a full season under his belt and while it looks like he finally will with Figgins walking that we would give him up. Who else would play third next year? Izturis?

I know you have to give something thats potentially power but at this point it just seems like Wood should be untouchable.

by TheAntiSox on Nov 24, 2009 9:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Here is why I don't see it

Arte sez he can only afford one of Lackey and Figgins. Halladay pretty much wipes those two out.

To get Halladay say we give them Wood and Weaver and Wilson … we just created two holes and cannot fill them. Doesn’t sound like the Angels.

BUT

With Saunders/Santana/Weaver all making more than the major league minimum in arbitration, would the Jays take Napoli/O’Sullivan/Reckling instead?

by Rev Halofan on Nov 24, 2009 9:15 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

This^^^

You also have to try to get into the head of the Alex Anthopoulos, the new GM. Is he trying to compete this year or the next? With the Yankees leading the AL East and Boston sniffing at their jockstrap, if you are the Blue Jays, do you try to jump into the shark infested waters or do you go young and build a strong nucleus to compete in the future.

Because if I was Double A, I’d be looking at going young and grooming some young talent. I would take Napoli to catch today. But I’d also ask for Conger for the future. I’d take O’Sullivan and Reckling and maybe ask for Trumbo as well.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces

by Jay Cal on Nov 24, 2009 9:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Arte would stretch the budget for Teixeira

…but not for Matt Holliday. Arte knows the difference between a game-changing player and a merely good one.

I suspect he’d pay money to Halladay that he wouldn’t to Lackey.

To your point about the pitchers, I think the Jays want a AAA arm.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Nov 24, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

They want power. We want respect...

by SenorChuckles on Nov 24, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It seems like a good package...

but some other team will probably offer a better one.

They want power. We want respect...

by SenorChuckles on Nov 24, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or how about this:

Gary Matthews, Juan Rivera, Jeff Mathis and Treveor Reckling

FOR

Roy Halladay and Vernon Wells

by Rev Halofan on Nov 24, 2009 9:52 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

never mind… Wells’ contract is still terrible

by Rev Halofan on Nov 24, 2009 9:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

God no

have you seen that thing?

“He will earn $23 million in 2011 and the final three seasons will pay him $21 million annually, although he can opt out of the deal after the fourth year. The contract is designed to give the Blue Jays room to manoeuvre with their payroll.”

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/SPORT/12/19/baseball.wells/

Just wow.

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Nov 24, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Btw

He hit .260/.311/.400 with 15 HR and 66 RBI

For 23 Million in 2011, when he will probably be worse….

Worst contract in baseball, hands down.

Sorry Zito.

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Nov 24, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

we should be thankful

because, if i remember correctly, people were pining to sign him when he became a fa the next year or something.

"it's mind-bottling."

by retrohalo on Nov 24, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Me included

SO glad that didn’t happen!

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Nov 24, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Awful

I wouldn’t want a trade of Willits for Halladay and Wells.

It isn't that I hate Boston, just that I hate Bostonians.

by SalmonStream on Nov 24, 2009 4:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

more like room to manure

Wells’ contract is a tire fire

NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!

More Howie please...

by hk47 on Nov 27, 2009 9:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Having watched ‘Halladay" over the last 5 or 6 years,he def is a big game pitcher and a guy that is going to have prob 5 bad starts a year..
 He is only 32 so I assume he has 4 or 5 decent years left in him,though he has had injury issues many a seasons (shoulder,leg).
 I would not want to give up Weaver or Saunders for Halladay…I would feel it would defeat the purpose,those 2 pitchers are grinders and give a great effort every game..
 I’d prefer Roy over Lackey,it would just depend what players you trade to get Halladay,and Lackey seems to want a huge contract..
 Tough decisions for the GM,either way looks like Figgins is on his way out the door,which is unfortunate because he is a phenomenal 3rd basemen,but again will want 2 much money over a long period of time.

 And please no Vernon Wells,what a washed up loser who doesn’t care about anything but the money he rakes in..Fraud..

by raven191 on Nov 24, 2009 10:42 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Just outta curiosity

Will HH be starting a Miguel Cabrera trade thread? Or are you guys down on all night benders, chicken & waffles, etc.? Of course I’m in.

I’d love to see Matt Welch crunch the numbers.

by Big Daddy OB GYN on Nov 24, 2009 10:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Miggy for GMJ and Hatcher

if they balk, throw in Izturis.

I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....

by PhiSlamma on Nov 24, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A package for M-Cab would be huge...

due to the years left on his contract. But if I had to guess Weave/Rivera/Wood/Jepsen.

They want power. We want respect...

by SenorChuckles on Nov 24, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know - that's a pretty expensive contract

…they’d be getting out from underneath another $150m. Might require less than you think.

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 24, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

how about our old school M-Cab package?

HK/Santana/Saundo/Wood.

They want power. We want respect...

by SenorChuckles on Nov 24, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Detroit is having a fire sale,

Then I’d like for the Angels to at least talk to them about M-Cab. He is the power bat at third we’ve always wanted. If Detroit is doing a salary dump, offer a package of Wood and a handful of prospects.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces

by Jay Cal on Nov 24, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pass me what you're smoking

“M-Cab” was an awful 3rd baseman and it didn’t take too long to the Tigers to figure that out. He’ll be a DH within two seasons.

by dmhead on Nov 24, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's no Longoria or Teixeira

But he showed great growth at 1B as a defensive player. It is easy to forget how young he is, and that his capacity to grow as a player remains.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Nov 24, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

His Waistline

Also has the capacity to grow quite a bit…

by jjackflash on Nov 24, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

www.instantrimshot.com

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Nov 24, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If they are trying to dump salary they aren't going to want a lot of high priced players.

At least that is my rational. I’m not in the front office, I’m not sure what the Tigers are trying to do.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces

by Jay Cal on Nov 24, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You know...if we're going to dream, I say Dream Big...

Ok, since it’s that time of year, and we can always throw WHAT if scenarious out there…

Trade Saunders, O’sullivan and Brown plus a no-name or two for Halladay
Re-sign Lackey for whatever it takes.
Re-Sign Vladdy
Trade Conger, Napoli, Reckling + two no-names for Miguel Cabrera who’s on the block apparently?(back at 3b?)

Imagine it for just a minute (and I know I’m dreaming but again, it’s the hot stove, it’s the point…)

SP:
Halladay
Lackey
Weaver
Kazmir
Santana

Lineup:

SS Aybar
RF Abreu
CF Hunter
3B Cabrera
1B Morales
DH Guerrero
2B Kendrick
LF Rivera
C Mathis

I’d literally faint if this were ever an Angels lineup.

The new Beast of the east would be second to the best from the west.

Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "I drank what?"

The Geek.

by The OC Sports Geek on Nov 24, 2009 4:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I forgot to include GMJ in one of those trades.

Just…throw him somewhere, anywhere, to get him out of here. again, I’m dreaming, right?

Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "I drank what?"

The Geek.

by The OC Sports Geek on Nov 24, 2009 4:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cabrera

will never see another game at 3B, save the improbable 1-inning emergency.

www.13stoploss.com

by feNOMINAL on Nov 25, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

oh yeah, and...

nevermind the fact that our payroll would be….north of 150M…but whatever..

Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "I drank what?"

The Geek.

by The OC Sports Geek on Nov 24, 2009 5:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Assume it's Santana that goes

Halladay
Kazmir
Weaver
Saunders
whothefuckcareswealreadyhavethebestrotationinthegamebyfar

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Nov 24, 2009 6:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

With a name like that

there is no room for a number.

"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon

by George Kaplan on Nov 24, 2009 8:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If there is one thing the Yankees showed us this postseason...

 is that you don’t need a “deep” rotation to do well in the playoffs. 3 starters is enough. No point in spending big money to ensure your #5 starter is good. It just doesn’t matter.

by Nashdiesel on Nov 25, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

but we do need that one "true" ace.

and i don’t think lackey qualifies, despite what he did for us this postseason.

"come on, eileen."

by retrohalo on Nov 25, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bingo

I keep yammering about this. How many playoff series do we need to be down 0-1, 0-2, or 1-2 before people figure out we need a ‘true ace’ #1 starter. Lackey ain’t that but he is probably going to get paid like one (excluding the Bankees, of course).

by Los Angeles de Inglewood on Nov 25, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup I like my chances with Halladay, Kazmir, Santana.

really risky with those two, but it could pay out big.

They want power. We want respect...

by SenorChuckles on Nov 25, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I liked our chances this season as well,but we didn’t do the right things,pitching really wasn’t the issue with me…
I’d love to have Halladay going game 1 against any other teams ace though,just not sure how sold I would be on what would need to be traded to get him,though he is only 32 and should have 5 good years left in his arm..

by raven191 on Nov 26, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

pitching wasnt the problem

but seeing Halladay go 2 times in a 5 game series or 3 times in a 7 game series would be great. Trade for Halladay, sign Bay and Valverde.

They want power. We want respect...

by SenorChuckles on Nov 26, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Prove me wrong Ninja

But I suspect we don’t have or are willing to part with the goods that Boston will to get Halladay.

by mustard_man on Nov 25, 2009 3:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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