Phillies accused of stealing signs
by Halos in DE on Nov 3, 2009 10:20 AM PST
Email
Print
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2009/11/dodgers_third-base_coach_larry.html
I'm sure you have heard that Larry Bowa said he has heard other teams calling the Phillies cheaters, that they steal signs. I have not seen evidence of this (pictorially), so the glove doesn't fit yet (yes I made a bad OJ pun there). However this is a concern, and I might question my fanhood to the Phillies if this turns out to be true. It is against the spirit of the game (even if it is there historically, even if it was in The Shot Heard 'Round the World). This to me would equate what the Yankees have been doing for years, trying to buy a championship. Not the hard way, like last year for the Phils.
However, it has not been mentioned that the Yankees were constantly going to the mound in the ALCS. I remember that they pulled a 5 minute stall tactic by having the catcher go to the mound, coach, throwing to first, catcher going to mound numerous times to get to Mariano Rivera - before a pitch was thrown. Plus other times trying going to the mound in the same at bat. In Anaheim, there is no center field seats, there is the rock pile, where some media sit. Only seats to left and right of center. Honestly, it was sick, I really hope MLB makes a rule for number of times a catcher or fielder can visit the mound, much like coaches and managers.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
35 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Wow, really?
Against the spirit of the game? Really?
Every once in a while I see a fanpost talking about stealing signs, hitting batters, or sabrebullshit and it reminds me that there is a whole legion of fans out there who probably never had the experience to play the game beyond little league.
Nobody should have a problem with it.
Most Teams Try to Steal Signs
Angels try to just as the Twins, Yankees, Philies, Red Sux and most other teams do. It is part of the game.
i mean
stealing signs via cameras is what is against the spirit of the game. what joe mauer did (or what media tried to make him out to) is okay by me. i have a problem with it if it is not on the field (like video and telescopes of old).
i actually like hitting batters, show a pitcher up, hit ’em. hit a grand slam off someone the next guy gets hit. and i hate sabremetrics – like i mentioned only stat i would care about in that regards is how often a batter moves a runner up (like sac fly, sac bunt, walk, hit, etc).
NO
no f’n way.
why? i had to look him up on google (deadspin article about his “writing” was the first hit).
the only “players” that need to use cameras during a live game are the umps (instant replay). please note the difference between live and learning how to swing (like in the jroll espn commercial or pitchers tendencies in the PAST).
if a batter tries to show up a pitcher in the middle of the game (as in not a walk off or an achievement homerun), i don’t want you to point in the air that you are number one while running the bases (like some do rounding 1st). doing what vladdy does when he crosses home plate is not the same.
it was more
your senseless railing against sabremetrics.
I couldnt agree more
There is still the human element that needs to be used. Sats are great and have been around forever in this great game of baseball but nobody sitting in a room is going to tell me a player playing in Alabama is better then the kid in Kentucky based on his stats.
Sabermetrics has made every math genius (thinks they are) believe they know/understand the game. Again I am for stats but some of these stats are just out of control.
Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee
by Angel Aviator on Nov 5, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
It's just funny to see people rally against math
Yeah there’s an overabundance of so-called experts now, but you can only take what these guys say for what it is: predictive stats. They really mean nothing on the field, but no stats mean anything on the field. It’s just a different take on the game; the two (human element/play the game + sabermetrics) can very easily co-exist.
RIP #34
Joba will be hoping the Phillies were stealing signs
Then he’ll have a ready-made excuse for his piss-poor pitching.
Seriously, is this guy’s reputation ready to return to earth anytime soon? The more I see of him, the less impressed I am.
And have the equipment manager get him a new hat, too. He’s grossing me out with the dried sweat on the one he’s wearing, while the ambient temps in Philly and NYC are in the low 40s.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
as a Yankees fan
watching Joba a lot, I think the Yankees destroyed the kid this year with the way they handled him. He was so great. In 2007 he blew people away with his 98 mile per hour fastball and deadly slider and had an 0.38 ERA. The Yankees try to make him a starter, put him on a stupid “innings limit”, and all of a sudden, Joba has an AWFUL year. And while he’s been okay in the playoffs, it’s nothing like he was out of the bullpen in 2007. The Yankees have done some serious damage to this kid.
I’m hoping he can get it figured out. Because he does have nasty stuff and I think he still has a chance to have a bright future.
Living out here and watching the "Joba Rules"
has convinvedme that you’re absolutely right. The entire Tampa crew should get fired for making Torre/Girardi do these stupid things. If he is such glass, they should have left him in the pen.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Torre was gone after 2007
so it really wasn’t him. It was Girardi and the rest of the Yankees organization that really did it.
The kid still has a lot of talent, but his confidence has taken a major hit. I’m hoping that an offseason with his family and without baseball can get his head straight (that means no DUI charges this time Joba).
Mom's a crack dealer.
Nice offseason that’s going to be!
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Nov 6, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
I guess proof reading is'nt your thing either.
The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com
I love the whole stealing signs stuff!
It speaks to the gamesmanship and the strategies behind teams trying to compete and communicate while together, out in the open, on the same playing field. Binoculars and telescopes and zoom lenses from video cameras, hidden beyond the outfield and operated by staffers? No way. But players on the field, or coaches in the dugout, picking up the signals? Abso-friggin-lutely!!
Of course, look at me. A Patriots fan. Like, what do I know about teams stealing signals?
I wonder what John Lackey must think about how long Sosh left Juan Rivera in the playoff lineup?
It aint cheating unless you get caught
and if caught then pay the price…..no 1st round picks for you!!
Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee
by Angel Aviator on Nov 5, 2009 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
Nick Swisher
Looks at the centerfield jumbotron before he steps into the box… everytime! But i just don’t like Swisher.
Hula Dula loves those nuts!
He looks into the sky
Its his ritual.
So, yeah, no.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
I was a benchwarmer in high school baseball
My job along with everyone else on the bench was to steal signs. My coach was a college and minor league player and it is part of the game. Stealing signs is great and it’s a part of the game, it keeps the defense and offense on their toes for whatever the situation calls for and sign stealing works both ways, you catch the team’s hitting signs and their base running signs as well as their pitching signs when you’re on 2nd base.
Hell, even Joe Mauer steals signs, should we take away his batting title for that? I don’t think so.
#34, never forget.
Or better signalers.
I wonder what John Lackey must think about how long Sosh left Juan Rivera in the playoff lineup?
Agree with folks who say "Part of the game"
I see “stealing” signs as part of the game. I don’t compare to throwing a spitter or corking a bat which I see as CHEATING.
Look at it this way; rather than one team stealing signs, the other team is “allowing” their signs to be deciphered by not concealing them. What is the batter at 2nd base supposed to do, look away and pretend he doesn’t see??
Some players, like A-Rod, are experts at stealing signs. He used to do this to the Angels all the time when he played for Texas. See, A-Rod is a great player not just because of his great physical gifts, but ALSO because he is extremely clever and has a great baseball IQ. These are skills that help a team win. If you don’t want to fall victim to “sign stealing” then your manager, coaches and catcher better be one step ahead of the opposition.
Personally, I would be fascinated to see a well-researched documentary on this.
Signal stealing and signal stealers. How are signs passed? How are they monitored and stolen? What are the “decoding” techniques? What are the counter-measures? We know the legendary stuff from teh past that was called out, but what have we missed? What are we still missing?
As I mentioned above, as a Patriots fan I get my fair share of “Belli-cheat” snark. Naive, really. For more than 20 years coaches on pro sidelines have been talking into their mics while shielding their lips behind their play sheets. Nobody is going to be doing real-time lip reading form 50 yards across the field (from the other sideline), so these coaches know full well that teams are using dedicated personnel and dedicated technology to try and “steal” the coaching conversations from the opposition. They were doing it before Bellicheck. They do it now. They do it when NOT playing the Pats. About the only time you would NOT see it is when Jeff Fisher of the Titans was lined up across the field from Mike Shannahan of the Broncos. Their mutual respect was famous. Bellicheck’s crime was to get outed by a disgruntled ex-employee.
So this is something that transcends baseball. It is a game that surrounds and infuses many of our games. Mostly, we are totally ignorant of this activity. I would like to be enlightened. Fascinating.
I wonder what John Lackey must think about how long Sosh left Juan Rivera in the playoff lineup?
Everyone in the game tries to steal signs
If you can pick up signs of the oppistion, you should try. If that team is able to pick up their signs they aren’t that great at hiding them. If a team can get an advantage go for it. Stop crying about it and make it damn hard for them to steal them in the first place.
Bring back Lackey
by Angelsrthebest101 on Nov 3, 2009 9:46 PM PST reply actions
Actually
Espn did mention going to the mound it is an issue MLB is discussing
Bring back Lackey
by Angelsrthebest101 on Nov 3, 2009 9:48 PM PST reply actions
did you watch the alcs
it was sad. all of the mound visits by coach and catcher and throws to first took longer than the replay in the world series. if you take that long to throw home, you are stalling
Stealings signs
is the biggest who-gives-a-shit in baseball history.
That it’s considered “cheating” or “against the spirit of the game” is bullshit. It’s part of the game. Don’t want your signs stolen? Don’t let them get stolen. It’s called strategy, dipwads. Do a better job with yours. Is a hitter cheating if he sees the grip a pitcher has before he throws it? Is a fielder cheating if he uses scouting reports to shade a guy toward the right field line? That’s what this is.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Nov 3, 2009 11:07 PM PST reply actions
okay i can change my poll but
is it okay to steal signs?
-yes – outside field of play (scope or camera in CF) and on the field (like Mauer was accused of or arod)
-yes, only outside field of play
-yes, only on the field
-no
i say only on the field, if you can’t conceal your signs, that is your fault.
Who cares if they steal signs?
Certainly not me. It’s a part of the game, and if you can’t handle it, then don’t pay attention to it.
Yes I'm talking to myself. Who else would I trust?
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Will Bryce Harper start the season with the Nationals?
- Mitch Mustain puts football behind him, signs reported rookie deal with White Sox
- Robinson Cano and Denzel Washington face off in Jay Leno’s Yankees trivia contest
- Shane Victorino lands role on ‘Hawaii Five-0′
- Have you criticized Hanley Ramirez on Twitter? Your name may be on his bat!
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
