Cliff Lee to Mariners in 3 team trade, Jays will send Halladay to Phils
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 12:59 PM PST
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This story just reported on SI.com. The Philadelphia Phillies are in agreement on a three-team trade with the Seattle Mariners and the Toronto Blue Jays to acquire All Star pitcher Roy Halladay, SI.com has learned. Sources close to both teams say Halladay will agree to a contract extension with the Phillies to complete the deal.
The Mariners would wind up with All-Star Cy Young pitcher Cliff Lee in this massive deal.
Rosenthal and Morosi write that pitcher Phillippe Aumont of the Mariners and outfielder Michael Taylor of the Phillies are among the players heading to Toronto in the trade. They say an agreement is in place to send Halladay to the Phillies and Lee to the Mariners.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:02 PM PST reply actions
Crap and more crap
That’s been the past few minutes.
For some offseason fun, check out the Mac & Windows Space Shooter game I helped make: Insectoid
And even more
CRAP.
I haven’t used an F-bomb around here in months, so: for losing Lackey, losing out on Halladay and seeing Cliff Lee go to a division rival: FUCKETY FUCK FUCK FUCK.
That is all.
how do you say shitty day
in japanese?
Still, I wish Nick was here
by adirondackangelfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:04 PM PST reply actions
ask our future DH
Hideki Matsui
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Dec 14, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
bedard on one year?
band aid til next offseason?
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Dec 14, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm
Interesting. The guy has an iffy attitude, but on a one year deal, I think I’d do it.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
If the price is right I would do it
Throw him into the grab bag of pitchers. One of them will have to stick.
RIP Nick Adenhart
by stolenbases on Dec 15, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Bedard would be a great signing for just about any team.
When he pitches, he’s one of the best in the business. And when I say best in the business, I’m not implying that he’s a #3 who sometimes outperforms himself. I mean he’s a bona fide, dyed-in-the-wool #1 Ace who is capable of making the best lineups in baseball look absolutely foolish.
The only problem with him is his dependability. He generally doesn’t have massive injuries, but he’s a Randy Johnson playing inside a Greg Maddux body. It just doesn’t work well for durability, but there’s more Big Unit in his results that anything else.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Gahhh!!!
I’m going back to bed. Obviously I’m still asleep and having a nightmare.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
Front Four
Please tell me who you have appointed this duty too Matt? There is four guys but there sure as heck isnt ant front line guy. Some good #2’s but this is not a pitching staff that would make me want to take a day off.
by Angel Aviator on Dec 14, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
LOL........
that is all
:(
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:07 PM PST reply actions
we need to re sign nolan ryan
and fast. before seattle does
Still, I wish Nick was here
by adirondackangelfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:08 PM PST reply actions
wow…. i love how the wording is the Mariners wind up with cliff lee, like he is some sort of consolation prize.
Man….the mariners are looking to give us a run this year… i smell a division race!
In Kobe we trust!
i smell second place
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Dec 14, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
This
Unfortunately.
"I thought you said we didn't have any high-priced talent."
"Well, I forgot about Dorn because he's just high-priced."
by It's A Trap! on Dec 14, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
must be your upper lip
because i still like our chances.
R.I.P.N.A.
by TheAngelsAngels on Dec 14, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
division race?
Cliff lee if anything will make up all the wins Bedard and Washburn had last year. The M’s will still lose to the angels and Texas. Remember Lee will be in Seattle for just 1 year then he will become a FA.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
well played good sir.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
Let's hope!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
What I think you mean is...
Cliff Lee will only be a Mariner until the trade deadline when he gets dealt to the Tigers or the White Sox while they are on the cusp of a playoff birth.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
You don't factor in
That a different pitcher will also get some wins…Your first sentence doesn’t make sense. He’s going to make them a lot better next year. We have to get better to feel secure.
bedard and washburn will be gone no?
then simply add up there wins in 2009 so Bedards 5 wins plus Washburns 8 wins makes 13 wins total. Basically what im saying is Bedard and Washburn 2009 season (put together) will likely be Lee’s 2010 season with Seattle. Seattle getting Lee and Figgy should not scare you. Cliff Lee wont win against the Rangers and Angels.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
I misinterpreted what you said but...
You still have to factor in what all the other pitchers did. You can’t just use the W’s stat, say Lee will replace two pitchers total W’s….It’s just a meaningless comment.
The proper way to look at it is that Lee replaces whoever they were going to use as their 5th starter. Just like the proper way to look at the Angels losing Lackey is that O’Sullivan or Palmer will replace him. That is what is happening and its a bit scary. Standing pat is risky right now.
by Spird on Dec 14, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
yeah we cant measure how good a pitcher is by W-L record.
but their rotation is still shit. Lee will keep them in more games but he wont be their savior. I just think that Felix/Lee/Snell/Roland-Smith/Silva wont get shit done.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
In hindsight, Buzzie Bavasi concurs with your statement
as he never lived down his statement that all the Angels had to do to replace Nolan Ryan was get two 8-7 pitchers.
by Hoppity Hooper on Dec 14, 2009 9:09 PM PST up reply actions
Lee is a premier pitcher.
While he certainly won’t be a one-man savior, to say he won’t win against the Rangers and Angels is ridiculous. You obviously don’t remember this?
Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
Look I dont want to talk shit
but we will see if Lee can in the AL West.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 9:23 PM PST up reply actions
29-3 Lifetime against the AL West
and 5-1 at Safeco
by Angel Aviator on Dec 14, 2009 9:32 PM PST up reply actions
So we lose Lackey,
lose the Halladay deal, and now the Mariners get Lee to boot? And our consolation prize is Godzilla? How sick is that?
Xavier Calvera
You left out the part where...
…we lose Figgins and Guerrero. Good times.
On the upside, it hopefully means that Aybar stays put…not much consolation, but still.
Oh, and we still have GMJ, thank God.
"I thought you said we didn't have any high-priced talent."
"Well, I forgot about Dorn because he's just high-priced."
by It's A Trap! on Dec 14, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Agree. This is an INSULT to us as fans.
Does Arte actually think that Matsui somehow compensates for losing out on BOTH Lackey AND Halladay. Disgusing. Dispicable.
And now watch the email stream to fans about 2010 Season Tickets. All I can say is good luck to you guys in getting new season ticket orders !!
Did Arte bang your wife or something...
Why are you out to get him!?!
Guy has put out a winning team every year he’s been here. Gotten to the playoffs multiple times and has spent money in the past. And Spring Training doesn’t start for a few more months, lets just wait and see what happens.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
by Jay Cal on Dec 14, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
For all you fans who said put all our eggs in the Lackey basket and dont trade for Roy
You got it. no trade and it looks like Lackey is headed to the red sucks. Instead of one we end up with none
We all live Napoli ever after.
I will add this
Trevor Reckling better turn out to be the real thing. I’m very curious to see what Seattle had to give up to get Lee.
I hope Trevor Reckling...
is the Second Coming.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
lemme finish your thought
is the second coming of jesus.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
I would rather have the second coming of Nolan Ryan.
I hear Jesus had no control on his curve.
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by matthiasstephan on Dec 14, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
but I heard Jesus can fly and lazer vision.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
Wow, you have a much different version of the book than I do.
Jesus would be a better fit in Seattle anyway. Not so much need for walking on water in SoCal, when it never rains.
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by matthiasstephan on Dec 14, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
yeah I color in mine
and people say im really good but sometimes I color outside the lines.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
And the weather forecast calls for
Heavy lightning in the vicinity of SenorChuckles’ house.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
you dont think Jesus could snap off a curve?
blasphemous
Still, I wish Nick was here
by adirondackangelfan on Dec 14, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.
by Angel Aviator on Dec 14, 2009 9:40 PM PST up reply actions
Jesus was awesome with the wood, man.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Don't know about throwing a curve, but apparently he can't hit a curveball.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Agreed.
I know that there is always more than meets the eye, but while the Jays, Phils, and M’s were working on what might be one of the most pivotal deals in recent memory, and the Red Sox were making a deal for our ace…we were working on a deal for one of the many DH-type free agents?
This looks bad and feels worse, but I’m still confident that the FO can make a head turning deal.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
On the (only) bright side, that's *8* of the first 115 or so draft picks
#18, 29, 30, 39*, 40, 77, 109, 113.
(everything after * is estimated)
that does make me feel better......
sorta.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
Kind of a shame that a team with a 100M+ budget is in rebuilding mode though.
I love draft picks too. But I also like to be competitive and win.
Our starting pitching just got worse, while that of a division rival got better.
I love picks too
You’re right… picks are always a roll of the dice. It isn’t like we can “trade up” in the draft to get the David Prices, Stephen Strasburgs, Evan Longorias, Tim Lincecums, Bryce Harper etc. There is nothing wrong with getting so many picks in the top 115, but I’d rather have known quantities now than have the unknown later…but maybe I’m just reeling from this Black Monday stuff.
Well, if any of the picks in the coming years pan out, we might look back on this day with fond memories.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Yeah, if we had just netted two top ten picks, that would be exciting.
But three late first round picks…eh, we’ll see.
If we were going to go cheap, I wish we had taken the flier on Rich Harden. He made just as many starts as Lackey over the past two seasons, with comparable results, and better FIP stats.
Great point.
I think Harden would have been a great fit. We’ll see how he takes multiple starts in the Texas heat come summer.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Thats great for maybe the 2014 season
That’s also a stab in the dark as we all know that all draft picks don’t make it and very few end up being those that have a major impact. How many players out of one teams draft for that one year make the bigs for any length of time? Of course the big $$$ guys will make it for a bit just to justify the pick but they need to perform once they are there.
We haven’t even talked about the budget that will also be needed to sign and develope these players asthey work their way to the show…….
by Angel Aviator on Dec 14, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!
not a banner day for Angels baseball. The honchos looks kinda bad here, they are off trying to finalize a deal with Matsui while their ace is signing with another team and the pitcher they’ve been trying to get all winter gets traded elsewhere… priorities man…
by No Bologna Polonia on Dec 14, 2009 1:14 PM PST reply actions
Uugghhh
this is a punch in the gut if ever there was one. Not a good day.
Do or do not. There is no try.
its alright, granderson is still out there
…wait….what………he’s in new york?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Dec 14, 2009 1:19 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
+100000000000000000000
Actually laughed out loud. Well done.
"I thought you said we didn't have any high-priced talent."
"Well, I forgot about Dorn because he's just high-priced."
by It's A Trap! on Dec 14, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
I hope there is a back-up plan
No Lackey, Lee or Halladay?
I love Weaver but he’s not the #1 we need going into the playoffs*
It's not even that...
I’m not as worried about an ace for playoffs as much as our starting 5 for the season. As it stands now, you are going to give Lackey’s starts to Palmer/O’Sullivan. That is likely to make a pretty substantial difference in the standings.
Getting to the playoffs is nowhere close to a given right now with the improvements Seattle and even Oakland have made and Texas still being a threat. They absolutely need to try to trade for a good starter right now if you ask me. They have enough depth at other positions.
Hard day to be a halo fan
why not add to the fun by signing GMJ to an extension and trading Kendry for David Ortiz? Can’t wait to see who we send the Braves for Derrick Lowe.
by No Bologna Polonia on Dec 14, 2009 1:22 PM PST reply actions
Just say no to Derek Lowe.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
Just for some perspective
-it’s December, guys. Spring Training is in March.
-This makes the Mariners CONTENDERS, not favorites.
-We don’t know what the Mariners gave up to get a CY YOUNG WINNER.
-We have plenty of time to find a trading partner for a SP or to bolster our lineup moreso
-Our payroll is still well below last year’s.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 14, 2009 1:22 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
thanks
for pointing out some positives on a rough day
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
not to mention the butt-load of draft picks we are gonna have........
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
Which #1 do you have in mind?
We need to replace a #1. Any old SP will not do.
Reagins is going to have to earn that paycheck.
None in particular
just saying it’s really early and something may very well come up. Even if we don’t get an ace, a really solid #3 guy could do quite nicely for us…especially if Kazmir turns a corner this year, in which case our ace is already on the team.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 14, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
I hope...
the M’s gave up King Felix for Lee….that is the only thing that would make this even slightly tolerable.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Slightly tolerable?
It would make it downright hilarious.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 14, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, yes it would.
Too bad the M’s no longer have Bill Bavasi at their helm.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Hah! Thank God.
I think we’re giving up a recent top draft pick: Canadian relief pitcher Phillipe Aumont… who has shown some ability to dominate in the World Baseball Classic and minor leagues. He hasn’t had time to show much in the way of a track record.
Also maybe some other prospects: Tyson Gillies has been mentioned. Or possibly LFer Michael Saunders (who Seattle is trying to find a replacement for among the free agents.)
(vising Seattle fan)
By Arte's math
After the Matsui signing our payroll is at 250 million.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
by PhiSlamma on Dec 14, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
hhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
ialjksdjkukwluecjuweckwke
BLAH
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Dec 14, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
#@$#%@#%#@$^#$^
!##%$#@%#$^%$^%U&W$%&W%$^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Aw Shit
i said Derrick Lowe instead of Derek Lowe, now i’m gonna get it
by No Bologna Polonia on Dec 14, 2009 1:24 PM PST reply actions
Now what do we do?
Lackey signs with the Red Sox ( 5 yrs $85 million over paid for him), Halladay goes to the Phillies. Do we look at trading for Lowe or Meche, and if the Mariners are getting Cliff Lee why didn’t Reagins do something to stop it?
Do what?
Blow his rape whistle?
We take serious...comedically.
by Versolt on Dec 14, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
He needs to use the "safe word"
Rally Monkey
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
they didn't overpay. That is the market. 100 mil would have been overpaying.
All I have heard all along is AJ Burnett money or more. This deal is just a bit over Burnett money. Once again the FO probably low balled our player.
by Wally's World on Dec 14, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
Cause he was busy
on the phone with Matsui’s interpreter trying to figure out how many L’s there were in Godzilla so they can get the billboards up tomorrow in Little Tokyo
by No Bologna Polonia on Dec 14, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
I think so, but with two R's.
So we’ll have a monster to go with our Fuentesarus. RAWR!
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
Please don't make a deal for Lowe
He isn’t that good.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
Holy Shit!
The Mariners get Figgy and Cliff Lee. Halliday goes to the Phillies. Lackey goes to buckin Foston! And we get Matsui? What the hell? This is the stupidest shit ever. I’m pulling Ninjas blackbelt. What a monumental waste of an off-season!!!
Happy Birthday to the ground!
It's not over yet
the Ninja can strike at any time
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
Possible
Pujols is a rally killer after all with those home runs of his while Willits keeps the rally going with singles if he makes contact.
RIP Nick Adenhart
by stolenbases on Dec 15, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
I hope so.
Right now I have massive heart burn and this news isn’t helping…
Happy Birthday to the ground!
by Monkeyspanked on Dec 14, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
We Should Sign Bay
Just to piss off the Red Sux!
This trade doesn't make much sense for the Phillies though, does it?
Unless they’re getting something else out of it, it sounds like they basically swapped 6 eggs for a half dozen.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 14, 2009 1:28 PM PST reply actions
personally
I’d rather have Halladay than Lee…
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
Lee wanted a $23/yr extension...
…Halladay isn’t quite that greedy and willing to extend
I see red people
Heck, I'm poor, and I would cough up that money for the team.
$23/yr for a Cy Young winner. Oh yeah.
LOL
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by matthiasstephan on Dec 14, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
sounds like lee wasnt gonna re sign
FA at end of the year
Still, I wish Nick was here
by adirondackangelfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
Halladay is going to sign an extension.
They were not making progress with Lee
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
No Lackey, No Halladay
Brace yourself for Bay, because its coming.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
NOoOOOOOOoooO!
Say No Way To Bay!!!!!
by No Bologna Polonia on Dec 14, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah who would want a power bat who can walk and drive in runs!?
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Everbody
I thought we got one of those an hour ago for 6.5 million? Why get another guy who cant field for 3 times the price?
by No Bologna Polonia on Dec 14, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
We could move Juan
for a starter..and sign Bay..but unless a trade happens i dont see Bay wearing a Halo uniform next year
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
This...
Bay has no where to play right now. Someone has to get moved for that to happen.
Now that we got Matsui, yeah.
By the way, has this been made official?
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Wow
What crappy news to wake up to right now. Fuck! Tell me we’re still in it this offseason (I know we can still hang during the regular season!)
....
So our SP's are...
Weaver
Kazmir
Santana
Saunders
???
And the ? get’s filled by O’Sullivan, Bell, Palmer or pitcher to be traded for.
Any others? Sure hope we don’t have injuries like last year.
HAHAHAHAHA
i laughed
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
#5: O'Sullivan
So-so in the reg season, but the no-no in AAA shows great promise.
Palmer for long relief and spot starts.
Fuentes for closing and driving us all crazy…
That's the thing...
People don’t seem to understand that if we don’t get another starter, this is our BEST CASE scenario for the season. What if someone gets injured? This just isn’t likely to cut it if you ask me…Not this year anyways.
you and me both.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
My thought
What the hell do the Mariners have to give to give up to get Lee?
Nick, you will always be an Angel. And you will be missed.
Wouldnt it be hilarious if it was Felix.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
another point
what the hell do they have that we dont?!?!?
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
besides that haha
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
it rained for 2 days here
and everyone started crying hahaha
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
OH MY GOD THANK GOD THAT TREACHEROUS WINTER STORM IS FINALLY OVER
God, I hate So Cal idiots when it rains.
I wish it would rain here 3 times more often than it does…we usually need it, and rain makes me happy anyway. Watching weathermen flip shit and speak on behalf of all of us by saying stuff like “the worst is finally over!” as if rain is some kind of judgment day…it’s depressing.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 14, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
yeah then you jerks would stop taking all the water from us up here :)
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
I love how So Cal gets scorched every year
by massive wildfires, and is going through what is essentially a decade long drought, and we’re constantly being told how much we need to conserve water.
Then it rains for a couple days and we cower away like little bitches and whine about how bad our weather is lately.
So stupid.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 14, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
It's been a VERY VERY VERY VERY dry winter for us up here as well....
doesnt bode well for the summer…..We’re still fixing things here in the park from the summer of 08 fires……..Luckily this last summer fires were a non-factor for the most part………But we need rain and snow baaaaaaaaaad or its gonna be a long summer.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
and we've been in a drought for about 6 years now
we desperately need rain. People out in the East are shocked by how much of a desert southern california is.
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on Dec 14, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
Haven't you heard? We're not getting most of it anymore
It’s running out to sea to save the Delta smelt.
done deals
Still, I wish Nick was here
by adirondackangelfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
This just in...we have a good rotation.
There are 3 All-Stars in our rotation and then this guy named Jared Weaver.
Barring injury, we don’t need another starter. We need some help in the bullpen. That’s about it.
ever heard of a thing called
the playoffs?
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
Where the yankees destroyed us with 3 starters?
and we supposedly had the best 1-5 rotation in baseball?
Yes our deep rotation did nothing for us in the playoffs. Kazmir, Weaver, Saunders/Santana can match up with anyone.
I like Kaz and Weave
but I’ll take CC and Halladay over both of them
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
CC vs Kazmir ADV Yanks
Weaver vs Burnett ADV Angels, a small one
Saunders vs Pettite PUSH
Yeah I can see your point.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
How about...
any of our guys vs. Lackey?
Maybe I should have waited until the sadness subsides, and the hate begins.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
44to8aytoatyaowghwlieughawoegh
This makes me angry all over again.
F him.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
And the hate has begun.
We’re moving through the Free Agency stages of grief very rapidly!
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
No, we're talking about practice, man. Practice!
I am fan various years ago.
by Fred Fredrix on Dec 14, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
who needs pitching?
we’re gonna walk the hell out the ball this year
Still, I wish Nick was here
by adirondackangelfan on Dec 14, 2009 1:37 PM PST reply actions
Next thing I am going to hear seattle gets Hunter.
and hes not even a free agent
We all live Napoli ever after.
I'd cry
he’s my hero haha
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
i thought that said Hudler and i laughed
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Dec 14, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
Great one-two punch for the M's starting rotation.
Just like in 2008 when they won the AL West.
Oh wait.
by XYZ123 on Dec 14, 2009 1:46 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.
Oh that's right.
Well at least they haven’t bought Mike Scioscia’s Baseball-Reference page yet.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
that made me laugh
props
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on Dec 14, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
no more...
aces out there to get. derek lowe is rumored to be who the angels are looking at now.
also bullpen is still an issue for me. Seattle still would have to find more offense for me to say they are going anywhere. Lee will leave at the end of the season.
unless we unload GMJ..
I see no reason to get Lowe. Yes, the bullpen indeed still needs to be addressed.
We’re done with offseason moves on offense barring a trade.
GMJ has to go.
His playing chances have dropped considerably with the signing of Godzilla. If we can get a fringe prospect in return, let alone Lowe, I’d call that a victory.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
i hope seattle
gave up a shitload for one year of cliff lee. i hope this cripples them for years to come in the future.
"come on, eileen."
No Bill Bavasi.
So the odds of that happening are pretty slim.
Say it with me: Washington Capitals. Capitals.
Preserved In All His Greatness - R.I.P. The Reignman 1989 to 1997
This entire day has just been regoddamndiculous.
"Well make more fuckin' money. This is America. You don't make money, then you're a fuckin' douchebag." - Mr French "The Departed"
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter
Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
How does everyone feel about Roy Oswalt
From the Houston Astros?
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
are you just
wishing? or are you going off of something?
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
just wishing
looking at what’s even out there. I’ve been one of the biggest proponents for Matt Cain, but if he’s not available just looking who else is out there.
Now I kind of wish we would have made the move to pick up Granderson and Jackson.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
I like
Matt Cain a lot too…I dont think theres much chance SF will part ways with him though
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
Napoli, Rivera, and a pitching prospect should do it.
No seriously.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
yup that should easily take care of it.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
Lee is owed only $9 million for 2010.
Halladay is owed $15.75 million for 2010.
The M’s got an excellent pitcher for a great price. This is stupid. The Ms are getting a 6 WAR pitcher but are paying him the going rate for a 2 WAR pitcher. What did the Ms give up?
From what I read.
Phillippe Aumont
Michael Saunders and pitcher Brandon Morrow are “in play.”
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
and they wont be able
to rsign him so 1 yr and 2 draft picks for the players given up shrugs
Confidence breeds success, self-doubt breeds failure
Maybe I can talk a few of you off the ledge?
Assuming that the deal happens and Lee becomes a Mariner:
1) Is he going to stay past 2010, or will become a free agent? If so, the cost to the Mariners, long-term, could be substantial if they thin out the talent at AAA.
2) Felix and Lee—then who is number 3? That was my attempt at “Tannana and Ryan and then start cryin’”, since it is entirely possible the guy slated for #3—Brandon Morrow—goes in the trade. After Felix won 19, the second highest win total on the Ms was Washburn with 8. Sorry, I am not feeling a fearsome rotation in Safeco. Felix and Lee will still pitch only 2/5 of the games, which leaves 60% of the starts open to anyone.
3) Where is the offense? Their #1 slugger, Branyan, left for free agency—sure, he could come back, but in the meantime he isn’t a for sure thing. Ichiro and Figgins, then who is hitting them in? Beltre is gone, Branyan is gone, Griffey turns age 50 by midseason. Is Franklyn Guiterrez going to be their slugger? Jack Wilson? Endy Chavez? I would feel a lot worse about this if Adam Jones was in the Seattle OF, but we know he isn’t. That is the sort of long-term loss I am talking about if Lee is gone at the end of 2010.
This is a bold move for the Mariners and I give their GM total props for making the changes required to shake things up in the AL West. But frankly, I am far more worried about the emerging Rangers than I am about the retooled Mariners, and this Angels team is still more balanced than either of the competitors—
—The strongest starting rotation of the division, and for much of the AL
—A balanced offense of power and average
—Strong leadership from the owner on down
The last shoe hasn’t dropped in the offseason, and we all know that injuries and slumps can make unexpected changes. But I remember when it was all over when Beltre and Sexson signed with Seattle.
The sky never fell.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 14, 2009 2:49 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
i don't think it's "m's get lee" so much as misplaced
anguish at “phillies get halladay,” because the latter sucks so much worse.
if anything, it was the m’s screwing us by helping the phillies get halladay.
"come on, eileen."
fair enough
The silver lining in all of this, though, is that there are no headlines reading: Yankees Get Halladay or Red Sox Land Halladay.
Lackey to Boston is really the most painful item of the day. Had the Angels retained him, I wouldn’t be the least bit disappointed in the day’s other events. As GK expressed, Lee doesn’t make the M’s any more fearsome, and if renting Lee for the season costs them valuable prospects, so much the better.
Thank you George
for putting things in perspective so well.
Now I can go back to grading student papers…
ah-oh…back on the ledge again….
You missing the point George....
It’s not so much about how the M’s have improved, but more how we have FAILED to improve.
NO LACKEY!
NO HALLADAY !
Plus the loss of a good portion of our offense (Figgins, over 100 runs scored).
Good luck chanlleging Boston or New York in October. Oh yeah, this team might not even MAKE IT to October baseball !
Eh, that's the case every year.
Esp. w/ the way the media portrays us. We just have LESS of a chance this year.
It’s still do-able, but if we have an injury-fest like the beginning of 2009 in 2010, we can say sayanora to the division title.
Man, wouldn’t that be something, finishing off this decade just like it began, with some great years in between? 41 games back? Auuuuuuuuugh.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
really?
So, if the Angels’ new 3B and new DH combine to hit 50 HR this year, will you still maintain that the team “failed to improve?”
If the Angels wind up with several high draft picks who become frontline players for years to come, will you still maintain that they failed to improve?
If the Angels were to make a deal for, say, Matt Cain (a name people have bandied about), will you still contend that the team failed to improve?
Losing Lackey hurts (note that signing Lackey would not have improved the team, it only would have maintained), but the offseason isn’t over. Halladay isn’t in NY and isn’t in Boston. Lee will be a free agent at the end of the year, and what will his presence cost Seattle in prospects?
Woods production is a big "if' based upon his recent history (albeit limited)
Also, I AM only talking about this year. I am of the mind that you have to try to win it all every year that you have a roster close to being good enough or capable of doing that. I know Arte may not feel the same. I know I’ve heard Reagins in interviews represent the “clubs” position of wanting to be good for many years to come. I have no problem with that as long as it doesn’t mean settling for 2nd or 3rd best each year. As a fan that is a price I’m not willing to pay — therefore, I would be willing to trade the “potential” of a B.Wood for someone like Halladay who would be a difference maker in the playoffs. Stirrups has said (paraphrasing) that "potential is what you use to acquire true talent. Or difference makers. I
pretty much agree with that.
Look
Have you considered the possibility that Toronto just didn’t want any of the Angels’ prospects for Halladay? Have you considered the possibility that maybe, just maybe, Halladay didn’t want to pitch for the Angels? There’s nothing that Arte or Tony or any of us could have done in such a situation. I still haven’t seen a breakdown of exactly who is going to Toronto in this deal, and that’s ultimately what you have to look at. It’s possible the Angels just couldn’t match up.
Obviously, you’re of the mind that the team should “go for broke,” and then spend 5 years rebuilding if it doesn’t work out. It’s a difference of philosophy. I tend to side with trying to build a team that has a chance (almost) every year, and then making a deal if it puts the team over the top. They tried it in 2008 in acquiring Teixeira, and they still didn’t win it all. But if they didn’t also have Morales around, and instead had been starting Robb Quinlan at 1B this year, the team would have finished out of the playoffs, and would be in a major rebuilding mode at this point. They would not have been one careless pitch to A-Rod away from being up 3-2 in the ALCS. Lackey and Figgins would surely be gone as well, as there would be no point to keeping those guys around on a rebuilding club.
You need to understand that the Yankees are the only team that can go all-in every year, as they simply do not play by the same economic rules as everyone else.
by jjackflash on Dec 14, 2009 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Everybody needs to read this at least 5 times
Have you considered the possibility that Toronto just didn’t want any of the Angels’ prospects for Halladay? Have you considered the possibility that maybe, just maybe, Halladay didn’t want to pitch for the Angels? There’s nothing that Arte or Tony or any of us could have done in such a situation. I still haven’t seen a breakdown of exactly who is going to Toronto in this deal, and that’s ultimately what you have to look at. It’s possible the Angels just couldn’t match up.
We supposedly offered Saunders, Aybar or Napoli, and Bourjos, and the Jays wind up making a deal for a lot of AA and AAA prospects, with Brandon Morrow—IF he is part of the deal—being the only name with significant big league experience.
Who knows what transpired in negotiations and what names were on the table or untouchable. But it is mind-bottling to believe some of the invective being hurled about here. For all of the broken hearts found here, maybe some should spend 2010 attempting to be a Jays fan, finding out first-hand what it feels like to be watching a rebuilding club, having your ass handed to you in 55% of the games played.
The Angels are still a very good team, and there is still time to make more moves. I don’t know how many people thought that Reagins had given up when Teixeira signed with the Yankees—there was a lot of “woe is me” being published on boards like this one—and a few weeks went by and we had Bobby Abreu and a trip to the ALCS before the season was up—and if the team had played better D it would have been a trip to the World Series.
There are some seriously myopic and spoiled fans pouting right now. They need to grow a pair and get on with their lives.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 14, 2009 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
This is what I am truly waiting for.
When the deal closes, and the FINAL players exchanged are released, how are we gonna feel about those players compared to how we feel about Aybar/Saunders/Napoli/Reckling/Bourjos/et al.
This will be the measure that others in baseball have for our talent. In other words, the market. If Lackey is worth $17 per year for 5 years, because that is what the market will bear, we have to accept what that same market says about the value of our talent.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Not necessarily
Sometimes, teams overpay out of need, not as a reflection of market value.
For example:
Carlos Silva @ $48M/4 yrs
Barry Zito @ $126M/7 yrs
AJ Burnett @ $82.5M/5 yrs
Those deals aren’t “market value” but are instead preemptory bids to close the deal quickly.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 15, 2009 5:57 AM PST up reply actions
I forgot Mike Hampton and Vernon Wells
As to the players in exchange, my guess is that Jays ownership is reducing payroll for the near term while retooling. They can’t dump Wells, but it is cheaper to take AAA talent at MLB minimum for three years instead of Saunders, Aybar and/or Napoli entering arbitration years.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 15, 2009 6:15 AM PST up reply actions
Well, I would posit that ALL teams deal out of need.
This is why I reject the whole concept that “if player X got a deal out of team Y for this much money per year, and player Z has the same accomplishments, then player Z is worth that same money”. The whole “setting the market” thing that Boras has leveraged so well.
What one team needs at one point in time, while competing in the market against a particular set of other bidders, does not have to have anything to do with what another team mght need down the road, or what other teams they are bidding against to secure a need.
In my mind, it should ALWAYS be measured in terms of ‘need’, and not some ephemeral ‘market value’.
To the point here, I am reading (here) that the Jays sent off Halladay and $6 million in exchange for Drabek/Wallace/d’Arnaud.
If all news is accurate, this tells me that the Jays felt that Drabek/Wallace/d’Arnaud and a loss of $6 mill was worth more than Saunders/Aybar/Bourjos. Which would be stunning.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Drabek
Will be under team control for several more years than Joe Saunders, so there’s that. I am completely unfamiliar with both Wallace and d’Arnaud, so I don’t know how they measure up to Bourjos/Aybar. We do know that Aybar is closer to arbitration and free agency. Perhaps that is ultimately what mattered most.
Understood
I wasn’t really talking about competitive bidding (e.g., the Yankees and Sox go head-to-head over Texeira, driving up the price) and more about the high-dollar, preemptive bids, such as for Sabathia, or Mike Hampton (once upon a time) or Barry Zito, when the amount being bid was head and shoulders above any other team’s bid.
The deal the Jays signed Vernon Wells to was far beyond what any of the other 29 teams would have paid, because the Jays felt a need to overpay to keep Wells in Canada (in this case, Mission Accomplished, since I doubt any team would take him off the hands of the Jays without being paid a fat sum of subsidy first). Wells’ contract didn’t reflect market rates for baseball in general but only for the Toronto team. I don’t think anyone outside of Toronto would look at Vernon Wells and say with honesty that he’s worth the salary he’s been pulling down, as well as the money still to come.
In those circumstances, the winning bid wasn’t an impression of competitive forces bidding, but rather one team bidding millions more than anyone else to sign the player quickly.
As to your last point, there is no question—I think any Angels fan would be puzzled how it was that the alleged offer of Saunders, Aybar/Napoli and Bourjos would have been found inferior to a grab-bag of AAA player the Jays took instead. And noted previously and above, Saunders, Aybar and Napoli will all have their first Arbitration hearings if they don’t settle with the team first. While that is “team control” for the next three years, the Jays apparently decided it was better to have team control for six years, which only Bourjos brought to the table in the Angel offer.
That said, I expect Karma will turn its wheel one more time and in 4 years time the Angels will have a budding star in Bourjos and the Jays fans will be kicking themselves because of what might have been.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 16, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Our division doesnt put me on the ledge
its getting to the playoffs and getting pasted by the AL east that makes me want to jump
Still, I wish Nick was here
by adirondackangelfan on Dec 14, 2009 2:55 PM PST reply actions
And enough of the financial times bullshit
we got to pony up and throw some money around to get our fanbase fired up and let the rest of the league know were players. Boston, New York have to believe we just cry wolf with free agents and they will never take our offers seriously. Enough sitting on your hands, ninja. Do something. Do something for me, a life long Angel fan
Still, I wish Nick was here
by adirondackangelfan on Dec 14, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
If Tony Reagins weren't so lazy......
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
Now Mike will have to really earn his next Manager of the Year award
When I'm not at the stadium, I'd rather be watching my Halos back in Costa Rica!
by Dono Romantico on Dec 14, 2009 2:58 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
So to recap:
From the 2009 team, we have lost:
John Lackey (Bahstin)
Chone Figgins (M’s)
Vladimir Guerrero
Dustin Moseley
Robb Quinlan
Jose Arredondo
We have gained:
Hideki Matsui (supposedly)
We have lost out on:
Lackey
Figgins
Cliff Lee (who was apparently available)
Roy Halladay
Who is still out there?
Matt Capps
Garrett Atkins
Jason Bay
Derek Lowe
Yep. We’re done for the offseason, folks. No way we’re going after anyone else.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Yeah.
He was probably available only for Halladay. But you’d think we would have at least kicked the tires on him. Heck, maybe we did. But failed. Who knows what will happen?
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
And hopefully we don't fail again!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
im a Sracuse football fan...got ya!
Still, I wish Nick was here
by adirondackangelfan on Dec 14, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
been to a couple games already
we are awfully excited around here
Still, I wish Nick was here
by adirondackangelfan on Dec 14, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
Raiders atleast went to a superbowl this decade...
Bills havent seen the postseason period in the entire 00’s…………….
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 14, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
OMG!
The angels cannot let this happen! If this does happen theres a good chance were gonna lose this division =(
Um, it already DID happen.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Well, I guess Reagins was right about one thing.
We certainly did see a lot of movement within 10 days of his interview!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Yeah!
I love movement!! Especially when other teams are getting better and we just sit back and watch, I love it! Let’s look at the bright side though we do have GMJ!
First we had a Salmon and now we have a Trout, let's see the same results.
by angelskid2210 on Dec 14, 2009 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
Lol
Reagins isn’t so ninja like anymore. What a terrible off season. Abreu and Matsui are our guys. Looks like we’ll be scratchin out that division title this year.
First we had a Salmon and now we have a Trout, let's see the same results.
So does this mean we trade Juan and sign Bay?
and just pwn every pitcher with a lineup like
Aybar
Abreu
Hunter
Bay
K-Mo
Matsui
Napoli
HK
Wood
This lineup would scare me :)
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 3:48 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
i like that lineup
A LOT haha
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions
5 years might be too much
but I think we can match the mets offer to Bay.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Only thing wrong...
we would bat Morales or Matsui 4th to go righty lefty righty lefty
by lightupthehalo29 on Dec 15, 2009 1:17 AM PST up reply actions
Something has to be up
For ninja to be out ninja’d. Maybe Arte has money problems? Who knows – but the Mariners got the best end of this deal by far: prospects for Cliff Lee. Whoa.
A reminder
but the Mariners got the best end of this deal by far: prospects for Cliff Lee. Whoa
A lot of people were writing the same thing when the Mariners traded for Bedard.
The Orioles have Adam Jones as a budding star in their OF, and Bedard provided about two dozen starts over two full seasons.
Don’t get wrapped up in the hysteria. The Ms have Lee for 2010, and most likely can’t re-sign him as free agent because Felix will take all the money.
This is soooooo survivable, it is laughable.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 14, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
Uh...
The M’s got a better pitcher in Lee (been a 7 WAR pitcher in both of the previous two seasons; Bedard was a 5.0 WAR pitcher at his best in Balitimore), a more durable pitcher in Lee (worst injury he’s had is a hernia; thrown 495.1 innings over past two years including postseason), and gave up MUCH less than they did in the Bedard deal. They have a whole new Front Office, so trying to compare the two deals is pointless.
Phillipe Aumont is a relief prospect. JC Ramirez is likely a reliever going forward as well. Tyson Gillies is projected to be a fourth OF, with the potential to maybe be a regular OF.
Adam Jones is a five-tool OF, Chris Tillman is one of the top SP prospects in baseball, George Sherrill is a major league closer, Tony Butler was an okay prospect at the time of the trade, and Kam Mickolio is a relief arm.
These deals aren’t even close, and trying to convince yourself otherwise is foolish.
me so cool
Doesn't change a thing
The sky was falling when when the trade for Bedard was made, and we all know how badly that damaged the Angels the last two seasons—some pre-season forecasts actually put the Mariners at the top of the AL West in 2008.
It has nothing to do with matching up Lee and Bedard, everything to do with hysteria run amok. The Mariners have two first-class starters, and nobody of note in #3-#5.
They have two speedy guys at the top of the order and nobody to hit them in.
I am far more concerned about the continued development of the Rangers than I am about the changes in Seattle.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 15, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
Also - how would we feel having a rotation that was so good....
…that Lackey was our #3?
It really sucks to be the Tampa Bay Rays….for them to sniff the playoffs, NY and Boston have to seriously implode.
Could Happen
The Yankees are one injury to Sabathia’s arm away from being a middling ball club. Is A.J. Burnett likely to have another injury-free season? How much is left in Pettitte’s tank? The Rays weren’t bad last year, and their young rotation is likely to improve. It’s a scary division, and obviously 3 starters is enough for the postseason, but I can easily see the Yankees slipping a bit this year, as they scramble to fill the holes in the rotation.
yeah
just read that too.
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 14, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
because they wanted minor leaguers to build their team around.
It was the right move on the angels part.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 14, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
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