The offseason can still be salvaged. Here is my vision.
by Chzburger Jones on Dec 14, 2009 11:15 PM PST
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PrintI think we are all disappointed to see Figgins, Lackey, and Vlad depart. I don't think anybody expected ALL of them to leave. But it is what it is. We can't spend too much time moping about what we could have done or what we should have done. Let's focus on what the situation is right now and move forward with what we have. That being said, here is what I think the Angels should do. Feel free to chime in with your thoughts on my ideas:
Phase 1: Sign Jason Bay
- While it is clear that pitching is the number 1 current need of the Angels, signing Bay would give the Angels a formidable offense to carry the team through periods of inconsistency of the pitching staff and it would give the Angels a legitimate shot to defend the AL West title once again. Yes, the Mariners have superior pitching but signing Bay would not only bolster our offense, but it would keep him from making Seattle's anemic offense respectable. Lastly, It should be noted that Bobby Abreu was brought to help transform the Angels into a patient team. Hideki Matsui and Jason Bay further that cause. That would give us 3 legitimate run producers that have good AB's and work counts and I think that would be a great influence for the young core, especially Brandon Wood as he will likely become a full time big leaguer finally.
Phase 2: Trade Juan Rivera
-Assuming that Bay is signed, there will be no place for Juan Rivera. Rivera has good trade value as he can give a team solid production (25 HRs, 88 RBIs, .287 BA) and he comes at a very reasonable price. He is a good "bang for your buck" player and that is a great asset to have, especially in this economy. He could be used to acquire pitching help from a power starved team. The Giants and Braves come into mind. Maybe we could do a Rivera-Jonathan Sanchez swap or a Rivera-Lowe swap (If Atlanta eats alot of his salary). Or he could be used to acquire bullpen help. There are many options that can be explored.
Phase 3: Sign Erik Bedard or Ben Sheets
-Both of the aforementioned starters have an extensive injury resume', but both can be dominant aces when healthy. Given their injury woes, they can come cheap. We can give either of them a "Rich Harden" type deal, laden with incentives. And if it doesn't work out, it's not the end of the world as we won't be stuck with their contract for very long and it won't be a huge money loss.
Projected Lineup:
SS Erick Aybar
RF Bobby Abreu
CF Torii Hunter
LF Jason Bay
DH Hideki Matsui
3B Brandon Wood
OR
RF Bobby Abreu
CF Torii Hunter
1B Kendry Morales
LF Jason Bay
DH Hideki Matsui
C Mike Napoli
3B Brandon Wood
SS Erick Aybar
Projected Rotation:
Erik Bedard/Ben Sheets
Now that you've made it through this ridiculously long post, tell me your thoughts.
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Assuming we can sign Bay for about 15-17 million a year
I’m digging this idea.
I don't understand the Matsui Signing
He is old, slow and doesnt hit for a high average. Why not bring back Vlad, he is old, slow and hits for a good average.
It would have made more sense, in my opinion, to throw that 6.5 million on top of an offer for bay, or stop being babies and talk to halliday.
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 14, 2009 11:39 PM PST up reply actions
Power
Vlad is not a power hitter any more. We needed somebody else besides Morales who can hit for power from the left side of home plate.
by YouthofToday on Dec 14, 2009 11:45 PM PST up reply actions
logistically away from baseball numbers
matsui brings a lot of money to the team… not saying this is the prime reason, but he definitely attracts more of an international crowd to the team
I hear Ya But....
You have a good point, my only answer to that is 1) Arte is using the signing of Matsui to bolster more of a international fan base and wants to expand the Angel name sake (just like he did when he changed the Angel name from Anaheim to L.A.) 2) Matsui is just more patient at the plate with less strikeouts.
Go Angels in 2010
by Angels4LifeSucka on Dec 16, 2009 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
Here's mine
It’s similar to yours.
I’ve heard inklings about Matt Cain being available. SF is desparately in need of offense in a winnable division next year. A package starting with Rivera, Napoli ++ would seemingly get their attention, no?
With Rivera out of the picture, then sign Bay.
Cain + Bay + Matsui would still be a hell of an offseason, no?
This is obviously predicated on Cain actually being available. But we do seem to have pieces that would interest the Giants, right? Obviously Napoli and Rivera wouldn’t be enough, but they’re good parts to the deal…
Time to see what Wood's got!
Where is Napoli going to play?
I love Naps, yet he is not a very good catcher. Besides, Buster Posey is their starting C for the next 10 years or so.
Cain is signed to a ridiculous club friendly contract of only $10.5 million through 2011. They would ask for Morales. They desperately need offense at 1B and their top 1B prospect was charged with murder in the Dominican.
by YouthofToday on Dec 14, 2009 11:26 PM PST up reply actions
Naps can play 1B
or, he can re-learn how to play 1B. He did it a little bit in the minors.
not that i’m for it. i’m just saying…
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Dec 14, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions
Cain would be a great addition to out team
however, I think the poster of this thread was more realistic with the Jonathon Sanchez idea. I don’t think the Giants would give up Cain under any circumstance right now.
I love the idea of Cain
but it would have to be Rivera + prospects. Trading away Napoli kinda defeats the purpose, no? Maybe Rivera, O’Sullivan, Trumbo?
but good Lord, that team will score some serious runs -
SS Aybar
RF Abreu
1B Morales
LF Bay
DH Matsui
CF Hunter
2B Kendrick
C Napoli
3B Wood
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
I'll see your deal
And propose we do a 2 for 4 deal.
SF gets Rivera to play Left. O’Sullivan to become 5th pitcher. Trumbo to back up 1st. And Wilson to back up their catcher.
LA gets Cain and a AA-level pitching prospect.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
I'd give 'em Mathis as a back-up
more Major League experience? =D
if they’d go for it, i’d be stoked. but i’m not holding my breath
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Dec 15, 2009 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
Right...
Yeah… not going to be near enough.
by YouthofToday on Dec 15, 2009 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
I like that idea
but unfortunately I have a hard time seeing the Giants let go of Cain unless they are confident about their offense. They offered Cain for Prince Fielder a year or two back but I’m not sure that they would view Rivera/Napoli as equal of an upgrade as Fielder. What we think is irrelevant.
Secondly, while I think Napoli would make a lot of sense for them offensively, it depends on what their plans are at the catching spot. We already know they aren’t brining Bengie Molina back so if they want to hand over the reigns to Buster Posey immediately, then this plan is a no go. But if they seek a veteran mentor for Posey to slowly ease him into the starting role, then Napoli might make sense. But then again, Napoli is still young and I don’t think he would be happy with a mentoring role just yet. He still has plenty of years in the tank as a full time catcher, health permitting.
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Dec 14, 2009 11:28 PM PST reply actions
And on a side note...
this Cain talk reminds me on how the Blue Jays passed up on the opportunity to trade Alex Rios for Tim Lincecum. J.P. Ricciardi epic fail.
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Dec 14, 2009 11:29 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Wow.
Wow…. can we now place Ricciardi in the same hall of GM shame as Bavasi (with the M’s) and Sabean (Zito signing and trading for the current douchebag catcher for the Pale Hose to start…)
by YouthofToday on Dec 14, 2009 11:43 PM PST up reply actions
Why not go for Matt Holliday with the extra money we have?
There is something about Jason Bay that just doesn’t do it for me. I realize Holliday is a Boras client, but whatever.
Matt Cain would be dreamy too.
I've got nothing.
Boras is looking for 20-22 million a season it seems
and the Cards supposedly offered him 8 years at 16 million a year.
So whether he cares about money or years more, he doesn’t seem realistic for us at this point.
Ouch
What koolaid is borass drinking? That guy is insane.
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 14, 2009 11:44 PM PST up reply actions
Sometimes you have to overpay, when you're desperate.
We are officially desperate.
I've got nothing.
yeah
that was the logic used when HGH was signed to a 5 year, $50 million deal. I’d rather not see that happen again, no matter how “desperate” we are..
Until spring training starts - let's go Cardinals and Suns!
Challenge Flag
we are not that desperate
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on Dec 15, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Thank you
A voice of sanity! Praise the law of physics!
by YouthofToday on Dec 15, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm, seems like it may actually end up being 16 million a year for 5.
If Boras seems willing to take a reduced check for more years, maybe we can get him as a last minute surprise suitor.
Arte Moreno specifically and emphatically ruled out Holliday from the get go.
I presume that he refuses to deal with Scott Boras after the Mark Teixeira bullshit he went through last off-season.
And Jason Bay is not a Boras client…
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Dec 14, 2009 11:59 PM PST up reply actions
I have a feeling if Holliday is unsigned in a couple months...
and if we’re still compelled to upgrade our OF that we’ll be talking to him.
The M's pitching
is not better then ours not even close unless you are comparing 2 pitchers to 1 pitchers BUT a staff? get real
Confidence breeds success, self-doubt breeds failure
In terms of their rotation...
their top 2 starters are superior to ours and their 3rd starter is close. We have a better 4th starter but no 5th starter to speak of.
Advantage Mariners.
Who are you considering to be the M's #3?
Snell? Morrow? Fister? Rowland-Smith? Silva???
None of those guys are anywhere near our starters. Morrow and Rowland-Smith have definite upside, but they aren’t anywhere near whoever would be our #3.
You’re dead-on on the Lee and Hernandez, but our top four are very solid.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Lee and Hernandez are better than Weaver and Saunders.
It’s the facts. Santana? who knows what he’ll be. And Kaz? same story. 5th starter? who knows. That is a lot of ? marks.
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
We'd all like a 'name player' like Bay
But I don’t really think Juan Rivera is that much more different than Bay, except Rivera is cheaper.
Or is Kendry perhaps the one who needs to sit?
Rivera is a solid player.
But Bay is an upgrade IMO. Cheap 20-25 homer guys are relatively easy to find. 30 HR/100 RBI/.400 OBP players are not.
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Dec 15, 2009 1:16 AM PST up reply actions
Bay would ba a contract we'd live to regret
His value won’t survive a 5 year deal. We are bettere off with Rivera for the next two seasons and then looking in on the progress of guys like Pettit, Bourjos and (a year or two later) Trout.
I am not sold on Bay for the long haul and it is clear he wants a 5 year deal.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 15, 2009 9:03 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
This is exactly what I've been thinking since I got the news
about Lackey and Halladay. Glad we’re like-minded
by lightupthehalo29 on Dec 15, 2009 1:14 AM PST reply actions
Okay, so as far as Bay
The Mets offered him 4 years, 65 million. Which means 16.25 million a season.
He’s apparently looking for a 5th year. Maybe offer him a small bit more than the Mets offered him, and a club option for Year 5?
How about one of those Club Option / Player Option deals?
We can buy you out for $16 million or choose not to, then you can choose to come back to us for $12 million, or choose not to and become a Free Agent.
For some offseason fun, check out the Mac & Windows Space Shooter game I helped make: Insectoid
Not a wise investment
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 15, 2009 2:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
No, No, and Yes
1) No.
2) No. I really don’t understand why people keep wanting to trade what is probably the best per-dollar player on our team.
3) I’d be down for that. I’d prefer Sheets.
"Well make more fuckin' money. This is America. You don't make money, then you're a fuckin' douchebag." - Mr French "The Departed"
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter
Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 15, 2009 10:34 AM PST reply actions
I just thought of something
How brilliant would be it for the Angels to surface as a last minute suitor for Holliday?
The limited market for Holliday has taken it’s toll on the amount of money he’s likely to get, so anything could happen.
Sweet, a 7 year deal for over 100 million!
NOOOOOOOOO. . . .
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
No.
The Cardinals offered him 5 years/80 million, and the market for Holliday is really small at this point.
It wouldn’t take 7 years and a 100 million+ plus.
While the market FOR Holliday may have shrunk, so has the supply of impact FA's.
There is some counterbalancing going on.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Whatever it takes will be too much and too long
I don’t have the strength to endure another protracted Boras negotiation and I’m not even dealing with him as a member of the Angel front office.
My guess is that Arte doesn’t feel he needs Holliday enough to make him deal with Scott Boras. I think he’s right.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 15, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions
Not.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 15, 2009 2:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm all over the Bedard and Sheets idea
Seems great to me. As long they will take something like 5 mil base each, with heavy incentives- making it onto the post season roster, pitching at least 3 games in each month, etc… that could make it a 12 mil deal or something- I would at least try.
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 15, 2009 7:46 PM PST reply actions
Sheets, yes; Bedard, no
Sheets has had his medical procedure and already begun rehab. I would take a flyer on him on a deal largely as you described. His injury was to his elbow, but described as less severe than a condition requiring Tommy John surgery.
But Bedard is different. His injury is a labrum tear, and since he had surgery in September, he wouldn’t be ready to begin a rehab assignment until June, and it would take quite a lot to get him MLB-ready. The vast majority of MLB pitchers do not recover from a labrum tear to become top players again.
More to the point, Sheets is savvy enough to become a pitcher to compensate for lost velocity, much as Frank Tanana became a pitcher when he lost his heat. I don’t Bedard having those smarts, and since his injury is intrinsically more serious than Sheets’, I wouldn’t go anywhere near Bedard with a contract.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 15, 2009 9:20 PM PST up reply actions
u know what dude
i thinks thats everybody backup plan! but what if the mariners take jason bay!!! that will be another huge failer a will remenber and people will remenber me and jason bay in seattles uniform will remenber me when he hits the other HR to put us in a crave!!
Great Post Only 1 Thing......
I like everything about your post with the exception of the signing of Bedard or Sheets. Wouldn’t work for us. But we do need another pitcher, but who???
Go Angels in 2010
by Angels4LifeSucka on Dec 16, 2009 9:43 AM PST reply actions
Well I think the Rivera-Sanchez swap makes some sense for both sides
in which case, Sanchez would be our 5th starter. The dude has control problems but he gets a lot of strikeouts so that tells me his stuff is good. And as a 5th starter, not a whole lot would be expected out of him anyways. Plus he’s a hell of a lot cheaper than Derek Lowe. And the Giants get a power bat they desperately need and crave.
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Dec 17, 2009 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
But it is what it is
I hear this at work all the time. Corporate catch-phrase that sickens me. No offense to you, ’burger.
I love this team.
I don't think they mean to sicken you
But it is what it is.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 22, 2009 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
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