The Optimists Brigade
Ok, now that the dust has settled on Black Monday, I wanna know one thing: How many of you believe, like I believe, that this is *not* the end of the world, that over-committing cajillions to 30somethings is generally a dicey proposition, that it's terrific to have 8 of the first 115 draft picks (including 5 of the first 50), that the core group that's been playing .600 ball since May 2006 is not only largely intact, but growing into their prime years; that this organization continues to be as well run as it has ever been, that the offseason ain't over, and that if you were down to your last hundred bucks you'd bet it on the 2010 Angels?
I can't be alone on this. More importantly, I want some names written down for posterity, besides my own. Who's with me? Who thinks I'm a fool?
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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i dont know how they do it
but every year they win. they always win, and it seems like the front office makes it so that they always will. but every year we come close, and never make it all the way. 2002 looks like a fluke more and more, and i am tired of the rest of baseball calling us out for it. they need to win it al again, otherwise we are the braves of the west. i will always believe we can take out the AL west and be better than everyone thinks we will be, and its all because of sosh. but with the pieces we have today, we cant win it all.
wouldnt being in the playoffs 5 times since 2002 CONFIRM it wasnt a fluke?
I dont follow. We’ve been to the ALCS twice?
RIP Nick Adenhart
by ihearhowie2.0 on Dec 15, 2009 9:02 AM PST up reply actions
Agree
I’d say the only year where I think we legitimately underachieved in the playoffs was in 2008. That team had won 100 games, was pretty stacked, and there is no way they should have lost to a Red Sox team ravaged by injuries. Other than that, not winning the WS has been disappointing but I wouldn’t say we underachieved.
Massive Overaction
While I’m not willing to say we’ll be better than next year yet (Spring training is after all still 3 months away and there are still FA’s available and trades to be made), all of the fears that Arte is the new Tom Hicks/Frank McCourt or our FO (which was so great just weeks ago) is suddenly the worst in baseball, is just so overblown. Maybe there’s something in the Potomac water (and in all likelihood there probably is), but I’d still put my money on the team. You can put my name down next to yours Mr. Welch as one who still thinks that the team will play well and continue to win.
I think everyone is way over reacting and I'm talking about Angels fans
in general not just Halo’s Heaven. I tried talking some sense into some Angels fans at work today. Told them Saunders and Santana were All-Stars just like 2 years ago. That Weaver should have been an All-Star and that if Kazmir is healthy he’ll be fine. The Angels starting pitching is still a strength. Angels fans have been so spoiled by the great depth of the Angels starting pitching that it’s just absurd to me that they think the Angels will have some piss poor rotation. I mean the only way I see that happening is if Kazmir and Santana aren’t quite over their injuries.
The Mariners do not worry me at all. Keep in mind the Angels had a 174+ run differential than the Mariners. They have 2 outstanding starting pitchers and exactly what after that???? They had a bad offense last year that only appears to be getting even worse. The Angels on the other hand should have an offense on par with what they had last year which set the club record for runs. Last year Mathis did next to nothing and I think his postseason showed me he won’t be hovering around 200 again. If he gets his average up to like 250 that’d be an improvement over last year.
But the biggest reason for excitement is that the Angels got HORRIBLE offense from Kendrick and Aybar for the first 3 months of the year. This year I think they could both be All-Stars. Aybar have been improving every year and I think Kendrick’s second half (OPS of 949) showed he’s ready to finally break out.
Aybar Kendrick Abreu Hunter Matsui Morales Rivera Napoli/Mathis and Wood is going to be an extremely well-balanced attack.
Plus all the draft picks from last year as well as from this year should put the Angels farm system in the Top 10 of systems again in the coming years.
Wow...
when you list the lineup like that, it actually made me say “oh geez, that IS a good offense”
Angels are fine. We got nothing to worry about.
Yeah except
I’d go:
Aybar
Abreu
Hunter
Morales
Matsui
Rivera
Kendrick
Napoli
Wood
Morales hit too well to stay in the 6th spot. And Mathis should be traded with GMJ. A handful good post season ABs doesn’t convince me, and I’d rather have Naps offense than Mathis’ D. Kendrick needs to improve his plate discipline a little more before he’s moved into the 2 spot.
That is indeed a pretty powerful lineup. Without any stretch of the imagination, 7 guys have 20+ HR potential.
No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.
by Rally Manatee on Dec 15, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
If we could just add Bay, Imagine.....
Aybar
Abreu
Hunter
Morales
Bay
Matsui
Rivera
Kendrick
Napoli
Wood
So I’m officially drinking the juice now. Just took me a day to get over my bitchin and whining. Black Monday sucked.
Bay walks, drives in 100+, and hits for power
he would hit third, no question.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
True, Bay would be nice, but
I’m not a Johnny Rivers hater. I think he’ll improve next year.
No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.
by Rally Manatee on Dec 16, 2009 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
A 10 man lineup WOULD be sweet, but....
No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.
by Rally Manatee on Dec 16, 2009 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
I would be proud to be the John Hancock of whatever declaration you have
This has been an astonishing “surprised” reaction to an expected outcome. We knew that Figgins wanted more money and would get it elsewhere, we knew that Halladay preferred to stay on the East Coast, we knew that Lackey was chasing dollars.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
Lots of Over reactions yesterday
It was because alot of bad stuff happened on the very same day. It is one thing to lose out on Halladay, Lackey and bring the official end to the Guerrero era, but for all of it to happen at once? The Angels are still a great team. Arte and company have built one hell of a franchise, and the offseason is not over.
Yeah, I think it was that all-at-the-same-time was what made it seem so terrible to me.
I was online looking for headlines about the Angels for my final art project (long story) and suddenly all these NEW items started showing up. So all of these “disasters” looked like a cascade to me. I’d find a couple of headlines, retype and print them large, go away to work on the project, and when I’d come back maybe 20 minutes later some other tragedy had stuck.
When I presented the piece today my teacher said, “oh, looks like Jeanne is an A’s fan.”
Dear Lord.
It went downhill from there.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
I certainly hope you set the instructor straight.
The teacher was talking to her class. And said, “I am a Boston Red Sox fan. Who here is a Red Sox fan?”
Everyone except little Jimmy raised their hand.
The teacher said, “Jimmy, why aren’t you a Red Sox fan?”
Jimmy said, “I’m an Angels fan!”
The teacher asked, “Why are you an Angels fan?”
Jimmy said, “Because both my parents are Angels fans.”
The teacher said, “That’s not a good reason to be one. What if both your parents were morons? What would you be then?”
Jimmy answered, “A Red Sox fan.”
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
by red floyd on Dec 15, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I did. Then I dazzled her (and the jocks who started out sneering, all two of them) with my knowledge about the trades and
trade rumors and all of the other stuff that was on my piece (thanks, Halos Heaven!). It wasn’t a good piece; I was too sick to finish it properly last night, but she gave me a decent grade for the project (and an A for the semester) and I know exactly what I should do to fix it and make it into a very good piece, but frankly the assignment was too much of a kindergarten busy-work collage, at least in my own head.
One girl really rocked the assignment, though. Her piece was so awesome it was ridiculous.
The teacher did like my sketch of Nick, which I adjusted after posting the rough version here last night and asking if anyone could tell who he was supposed to be. Rev gave me some specific comments that helped, tiny things that made a huge difference. She said she would have loved to have seen more sketches of the players, and I was already in love with the possibilities. I’m taking an advanced class (think Self-Directed Studies) next semester in order to get some watercolor instruction from her, because she has offered to work with some of us. The problem with that is the class is 2D, and I may get so fascinated with that one that I get sidetracked and do those assignments instead.
She also loved the pitching-sequence cutouts of Lackey, especially when I told her that they were my photos.
She’s obviously not a big baseball fan, but she got where I was going with the assignment and pointed out what I could do to raise the grade to an A, which I almost always do no matter how much I like or dislike the assignment, but I’m done with this class and still too busy with the other one to fix it.
I think I have actually regressed this semester. I had this class 3 years ago and yesterday when I was organizing my portfolio I found some of the pieces from that class and I was doing work far superior to most of what I have produced this time. Part of it is because I’m having trouble seeing details clearly (beginnings of cataracts) and part of it is lack of confidence. I’m not trusting myself enough.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
Show me where to sign...
….we’ll score a shitload of runs next year (to go on top of the shitload from last year) while having a perfectly serviceable rotation.
What we lose from the rotation we will make up for via an improved bullpen (and the return to prominance of a certain Ervin Santana).
To be the king, you’ve got to beat the king and this team will be difficult to knock of its throne. And those competitors should know that we’ll be opening the unravaged crown coffers in 2011 when there’s someone worth spending the money on.
I see red people
Btw...
…anyone actually looked at the lineup (yeah I know they are not done) the M’s are rolling out there with those two excellent starters plus Rowland-Smith (whom they are very high on)? In order to dethrone the king they are going to need to win a lot of 1-0, 2-1, and 3-2 games…ie, about 98 of them!
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
Ahhhhhhh, FREAK OUT!
I couldn’t read Halos Heaven last night due to all the freak outs.
Lackey’s contract IS NOT a good contract for a 31-year-old with potential arm issues (last two springs) and non-ace stuff! Yes, he’s a bulldog. Yes, I loved him as an Angel, but this is fiscal responsibility to not match the offer.
Halladay obviously preferred the Phillies. I listened to a Jon Heyman interview on Petros and Money driving home last night, and Heyman pretty much said Halladay’s preference were the Phillies or Yankees and a contract extension will NOT be an issue, if it’s not already done.
I’m bummed about losing Vlad and worried about Matsui’s knees falling apart, or not being productive in a ball park without a little league right field, but it’s not a bad signing, it’s certainly reasonable and it’ll help balance out or lineup L/R a bit more.
However, we do need to add some talent (another SP, secure the pen) and, if we can, let’s get a bat…to break over Lackey’s skull.
I am jumping on the optimism brigade…someone design a logo.
I too was worried about Matsui initially
in terms of him being a product of that short right field porch. But the guy did considerably better on the road, and unlike Figgy he can actually hit pitchers that are left-handed. I think that’s one thing that hurt the Angels last year is that the Angels were too susceptible to lefthanded pitchers.
your headline
now i have that song stuck in my head…
by Rev Halofan on Dec 15, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Count me among the believers
Of course it is a shock to lose long-time impact players, but the fact is that they wanted too much money. What the Angels pay a free agent to stay reflects how much a ticket costs in bad economic times and how much they can invest in the team down the road.
The only way to field a winner every year and maintain affordability is to replace a Figgins with Brandon Wood (3b) and Aybar (leadoff); Lackey with an Adenhart (which of course won’t happen due to unforseen circumstances); Weaver with a Reckling. Weaver is a Boras client you know, so plan on losing him.
This organization did an amazing job molding a team of character and played a key role in leading them through the Adenhart tragedy and an incredible string of injuries. Angel management didn’t get bad overnight.
Actually, I think John Lackey will look back when his playing days are over and realize that he blew the chance to be one of the all-time Angel greats as both the team’s all-time wins leader and the winner of Game 7 of the team’s first World Championship. That’s priceless. For everything else, there’s Master Card.
by California Cajun on Dec 15, 2009 7:39 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
There was a heavy sense of shock yesterday
But sure enough, I look out the window and the sun is shining. 3 of our 4 pitchers have been on All-Star teams and we all know Weaver should have been too. Torii Hunter will still be our Golden Glove/Silver Slugging team leading face of the franchise. Bobby Abreu is still going to hit for 100 RBI.
This team played better than it should have last year. And I’m excited to see what they do this year. That core nucleus is only going to get better.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
As long as we have Mike......we gonna be a'ight.............
gansta!
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. - Peter Gibbons
by norcaliangelsfan on Dec 15, 2009 7:56 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Matt, thanks for always being level-headed.
I believe we can do it still. I’m glad we didn’t pull the trigger on the Halladay trade (or maybe Totonto didn’t accept out offer.). Losing Lackey may hurt a bit but I think ,like we always do, we can pull it out… Last year a lot of people were thinking that 2009 was a year of rebuilding losing out on Teix and CC. But we did just great. Sure we lost to the Yankees, but honestly that series could have gone either way.
Anyway, I do Believe,
Stuck in Romania Colorado
Now stuck in Colorado Springs
by stuck in Romania on Dec 15, 2009 7:59 AM PST reply actions
This is easy
I’m definitely a believer. In fact, AS IS, we are rooting for a 90-95 win team. If Tony and Arte spend the next two months in Cancun, we’re still the favorites to win the West.
Just as in life, Halo fans are only looking at themselves. Other teams have holes, too. There are no perfect teams, not even in the Bronx. Within our division, all our foes have warts that still need to be addressed. Our lineup is still the best in the division, our top four starters are better than anybody else’s (but Oakland is catching up), and our bullpen will still be strong.
Yes, I like our chances.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
Good post Matt...
totally agree. This organization has been second to none since Moreno took over. The patience that they are showing right now will pay off. There is no reason to panic and do another GMJ deal.
I don’t see why we can’t make it back to the postseason next year and have a chance to play underdog again. Seattle’s offense is still lacking and I don’t see Texas making a serious run yet with Harden leading their staff. This is our division.
I'm a believer!
I was prepared to lose Lackey and Figgins.
I didn’t want to lose Vlad, and didn’t initially like the signing of Matsui. I read some Yankees’ blogs and checked his numbers; Yankees’s fans are bummed. I think the Angels’ brass have done it again!
We’ve got enough good young pitchers to find our 5th starter internally.
We’ve still got enough spare parts for a good trade, now or mid season, with our eyes on a superstar.
that is what I'm rooting for
A mid season trade. I would love to hear a list of the FA pitchers for the next off season. I’m sure teams will want to get something for them at the trade deadline.
I’m trying to be a good sport and drink the kool aid. Can some one please shed some light on who might we go after at mid season.
2011 Free Agents
You can find a list here, at Cot’s. It’ll be an epic off-season – and chaos at the trade deadline!
"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
In a retort to anyone who think the Angels are slipping.
I thought about this a lot yesterday as I saw all the pieces I wanted to sign with the Angels go else where. But then I started to think about it…
Seattle over payed for Figgins pure and simple. His defense is stellar and he was becoming a very patient hitter, but his speed is down. His stolen bases are down. And his numbers with a bat were never all that impressive. Wood will certainly produce greater with a bat than Figgins. And I also think Wood’s defense will surprise a lot of people. And the lead off spot will be replaced by Aybar.
Boston over payed for John Lackey. Lackey has started the last two years on the DL. Lackey will pitch well for Boston for a year or two, but the Red Sox are going to regret this deal. The Angels traded for Kazmir in the likelihood that Lackey didn’t re-sign. The rotation as it stands now is Weaver, Kazmir, Santana, and Saunders with the 5th pitcher tbd, which I would guess would be Sean O’Sullivan.
Abreu re-signed and hit for over 100 RBI last year. And Matsui will be an upgrade on the offense. The only moves I would make now would be to pursue Matt Cain from SF. If that doesn’t happen, this team should stand pat.
When all is said and done, we’ll have saved some money for not paying excessive contracts, re-stocking our farm systems by getting a lot of the 1st Round Draft Picks. And perhaps opening up new revenue streams by signing Matsui.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
OH MY GOD WE DIDNT GET GRANDERSON?
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
I'm completely on board here
I never expected Lackey or Figgy to re-sign, they were looking for their big payday and I’m glad they got it because they deserved it. What they did for our orginization proves that, at least for me they did. Of those two figgy hurts worse, but the all but definite departure of Vlad is what hurts most of all. He will go down as my all time favorite Angel. In his prime years he was the most exciting baseball player to watch (IMHO). I was speachless with excitement when we signed him and to see that his tenure with the angels looks to be most certainly over, I am deeply saddened. I understand baseball being a business and it was the right move for the club, but just the thought of not seeing that smile in an angels uni pains me. I hope halos heaven has a serious tribute for one of the greatest ball players to ever live. I’ll miss you the most Vlad! Thanks for coming to anaheim and bringing us some of the best moments since winning it all! Game 3 of 09 alds being my personal favorite!
Okay now that that’s off my chest, let’s go win!
What in the wide wide world of sports is uh goin on here???
by AlohaHalofan on Dec 15, 2009 8:48 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I'm with you
I’m excited about our young infield – Morales, Kendrick, Aybar, Wood – it’s finally here and I’m looking forward to watching it.
I’m excited about our pitching – Weaver, Saunders, Santana, Kazmir – they can all be lights out when they’re on.
Our outfield – Rivera, Hunter, Abreu – is quite good.
I’m admittedly a bit disappointed in the Matsui signing. I liked the DH flexibility we had over the last few years, and was looking forward to Napoli finally, maybe, possibly getting a full season’s worth of ABs to show what he can do. But oh well, Matsui will give us some stability and power from that position.
This team won 97 games last year with a rotation held together by duct tape, chicken wire and 30 year old rookies. The year before they won 100. The race for the West should be closer this year, sure, but I’m not worried. It’ll just be more fun this year when we don’t have it clinched a month early.
Too Early To Tell. But my Fandom remains the same.
So far, not so surprised as a lot of people. Sure, I would rather Figgy and Lackey landed in KC, but we don’t get to choose that part. Not suprised about Halladay. Sounds a lot like Curt Schilling 2.0, not wanting to come out West. Sorry about Vlad, but I don’t see him pulling a Favre any time soon.
But there is still lots of time to learn what the final roster is going to be. Lots of time to learn whether our fandom will be vested in a possible WS title run in 2010, or vested in baseball alone while we await 2014. Either way, I am buying tickets, beer and dogs. And I am having a good time.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
All great things come to an end
We can manage just being very good next year. 85 wins shouldnt be anything to sneeze at for a rebuilding year. As we are now, I can’t see Morales repeating last year’s brilliance and Wood is obviously going to be a major downgrade at the hot corner so here’s our rebuilding year all the prospect lovers have been waiting for so much. You guys dont want to part with prospects in trades and this is what will happen. We’ll get a good look at how enjoyable it is.
Even then, we’re a Howie Kendrick breakout year away from even stealing this division in 2010.
Not all is lost!
RIP Nick Adenhart
A rebuilding year???
We lost three players from a division winning team. A team that, by the way, had a ton of injuries all season long.
Think if the team is actually healthy next year.
I think we need another starter, and someone else in the pen, but it isn’t drastic, and definitely not anything I would consider rebuilding.
Check out these games:
Multiplayer Baseball: http://www.mmobaseball.com/createaccount.aspx?ref=9687
Multiplayer Football: http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=16986650
by matthiasstephan on Dec 15, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
kinda wondering where The Optimist is?
kept my juices going during the down parts of the playoffs
but in all seriousness, yeah I have hope. I totally agree it was rough because it was all on one day. all the noobes are gone, so lets keep the positive juices flowing. do i think the angels will win 90 games? maybe. but will they win the west or wild card, yeah baby
So we got hit hard a couple of times in quick succession. This is the offseason, for crying out loud.
Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that happens before the start of next season will be worth less than one mid-season road game against Kansas City to me. I care about how the Angels players perform. Yes, I get excited about new signings and sad about players leaving, but that doesn’t mean anything to me the day the season starts. What matters is not how much money the Yankees offered Teixeira’s wife, it’s how well Kendry Morales does at first base. It’s not about how much better the Red Sox are on paper, or how untouchable Jonathan Papelbon is, it’s how much heartbreak we can create in beantown.
So yeah, for the offseason there is nothing to do but get obsessed with wheeling and dealing… but in the grand scheme of baseball, I’d rather we make sure not to blow that easy game against the Royals.
For some offseason fun, check out the Mac & Windows Space Shooter game I helped make: Insectoid
We'll win
The rest of the division are always better on paper than on the field.
# Halo Heaven Fantasy Champ 2008 #
I have faith
This is the most intelligent FO this franchise has ever seen. Reagins has shown he can properly value talent and the team has been just thatmuch better since he took over. The pieces are in place, and the offseason is not over yet.
And just consider this for a second: Brandon Wood, our number one hitting prospect (I use the term “prospect” lightly here) will more than likely be batting 8th or 9th in the line up. Figgins will be missed for a while, but this line up is still going to score a ton of runs. Matsui is a selective power hitter who WON’T kill a bunch of rallies like we’ve grown used to with Vlad. And as Matt touched on already, Kendrick, Aybar, Morales, and Wood are all a year older, and hopefully a bit more productive.
All we need to do is settle up the pitching staff. Considering we still have about 4 open roster spots, I’m sure that will get taken care of soon enough.
All right, I'm with you.
These things the FO didn’t do seem like common sense that they should have done as any fool would have. But that’s just it—any fool like us would have, but this FO wouldn’t. This is why they’re paid the big bucks for this and we’re not. They know what they’re doing. They must. For if they don’t then it’s gone.
But I believe in Reagins, and Scioscia, and Moreno, and the rest of the Front Office. I believe in this team. And I believe, most of all, that though it will be difficult, and though we may not be in first place all season, in the end, as they always do, the Angels will come out on top!
Thanks Mattwelch.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Count Me In
A lot of things happened yesterday in a very short period of time. I am bitterly disappointed that Lackey is going to pitch for Boston, but I don’t blame him for taking the money, nor do I think the Angels should have topped that offer. Same goes for Figgins. And while it’s disappointing not to get Halladay and to see a division rival get a good pitcher in Lee, I still believe in this team. Right now, as constructed, I’d still pick the Angels to win the division.
This is a good team, one we can all be proud of. Management has demonstrated time and again its commitment to building a winning franchise, one that expects to compete for the World Series every year, while maintaining affordability and accessibility for the fans.
Optimism is great and I'll always be a fan...
but I also know that the FO has to be scrambling to get something done, because unlike others I firmly believe that Mr. Moreno wants to win more than anything else. The FO made it known to all of us and the baseball world that they had three priorities this offseason in a specific order.
1. Re-sign Lackey
2. Trade for Halladay
3. Re-sign Figgins
It has been an epic failure by all accounts no matter how you spin it, but thankfully its not over and you can never count out an owner that wants to win as much as the fans do. Keep your eyes on the intranets.
I think you have to predicate those goals with caveats like...
1) for the correct length of contract
2) without trading away the entire farm
3) for the right price
Sure we could have re-signed both players and traded for Halladay. We’d be looking at ridiculous payroll commitments down the line. no flexibility to sign anyone else, and a gutted farm system.
If we’re only looking at 2010 then yeah I’ll admit our roster is looking less than exceptional next year, still quality, but not amazing. But beyond that? I think we did the right thing.
Regardless, the point is . . . .
FAIL
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
I think spending too much money
on injured or broken down or overrated players is FAIL.
Please see Gary Matthews Junior.
Throwing a bunch of money at aging players is a great way to make your team suck.
How about you see...
Yankees, New York. Winning the World Series most certainly does not suck.
Last time I checked it wasn’t your money either.
by Wytelitning on Dec 15, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
Prior to last year...
we had a more recent WS victory that theirs. It’s also apples and oranges since their TV contract generates more revenue than some teams gate receipts.
It isn’t my money but I consider the Angels my team and I don’t want them to suck.
If Arte goes out and wastes money on people like GMJ every year that means we can’t go get Cliff Lee or Joe Mauer when they do become available.
There is a cap to his spending. He can’t go out and just sign mediocre FA to high priced contracts without the team paying for it in losses down the line.
The Angels did that crap in the 80’s and they were horrible. SIgning the likes of Dave Winfield and Parker or even Mark Langston to long term deals on the back halves of their careers and then not being able to sign anyone else because their budget was capped or having any farm system to generate players from.
GMJ and Figgins/Lackey/Vlad is apples and oranges too.
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
for 5 year deals?
Why are we talking about Vlad? We just upgraded DH.
Regarding the comparisons to GMJ no it isn’t apples and oranges. I would be shocked if the slap hitting figgins with too many CS just having a career year improves with age statistically, ditto lackey and his 20 missed starts over the last 2 seasons.
If we could have signed these guys to 3 or 4 year deals we would have, but they got longer term contracts and that will spell trouble for Seattle and Boston a few years down the road when they have under-performing players rotting on their bench of DL eating up a significant portion of the payroll.
Just like GMJ.
True, but...
I don’t think there was an “at any cost” rider on any of those three.
"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Reply fail
@ Wytelitning…
"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
1. Remember we picked up Abreau nearly at the last hour last year.
2. The economy ain’t getting better folks. Players providing solid value will be available later on.
3. We are going to have clear financial flexibility to add players with bad contracts when needs appear next summer — the M’s don’t.
4. We will have more financial flexibility next winter to potentially go after Carl Crawford, Cliff Lee, Brandon Webb… actually, next year’s class is rather weak.
5. Arte is the man. What else does the man have to do for you to believe that he really knows what he is doing.
oh and give out 5 year contracts????
NOOOOOOO…… everybody knows 5 year contracts are TERRIBLE!!!!!!
so you can forget about that idea.
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think that's our policy.
Our policy is no 5 year contracts at top dollar rate for a pitcher with a history of arm trouble.
Agree
Especially for a pitcher on the wrong side of 30 for 85 million with injuries and some declining peripherals.
RIP Nick Adenhart
It might be an interesting ride...
but we’ll be there in first place on Oct 1 have a decent shot at winning a series or two in the playoffs.
The biggest disappointment for me is
That 2 of the 3 Angles left from the 2002 WS team are gone. As someone that has been an Angel fan for 35 yrs and has watched many players come and go these 2 will be missed by me for more then the wins and losses they were involved in, but because for one special fall they let me know that all my heartaches through out the years had paid off.
With that said….
Being I was never a huge fan of Lackey I am not upset at him leaving as I never thought for a second he would be an Angel in 2010. Don’t get me wrong he was a very good pitcher that gave you a chance to win each time he took the mound, but his antics on the mound made me want to slap him.
Losing Figgins is something that will hurt the club. His enthusiasm for the game and leadership is not something that will be easily replaced. Not only did the team lose a valuable player in Figgy they lost the leader of the INF and the table setter at the top of the lineup.
The big issue the club needs to solve is the bullpen. There is some issues there that need to be addressed, and if they aren’t then it won’t matter who the starters are as we all know in this era of pitch counts and innings (stupid) it has become more crucial to have a solid reliable bullpen.
I question your core group though Matt. Didn’t that core group have names like Vlad / OC / Figgins / GA . I reserve the right to abstain from the voting process until ST as this surely can’t be the team that will take the field come April.
“The big issue the club needs to solve is the bullpen. There is some issues there that need to be addressed, and if they aren’t then it won’t matter who the starters are as we all know in this era of pitch counts and innings (stupid) it has become more crucial to have a solid reliable bullpen.”
I read this site every day, hardly ever comment. Really fascinated though how the bullpen seems to be an afterthought.
-We sever ties with a player who we were crossing our fingers could possibly contribute (Arredondo)
-A closer who has had noticeable inconsistencies
-A declining, reliable reliever who is coming off a season ending injury
-Bundle of flavor of the week AAA relievers
Re-sign Oliver please.
Also, does Kazmir, Santana, Saunders, and unknown #5 freak anyone out? This could be our biggest decline in pitching in the last decade.
A pipeline of talent, welcome to Anaheim.
by ClutchHomer on Dec 15, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
Arredondo wouldn't be contributing though.
He would be out the entire 2010 season due to Tommy John surgery.
Not to mention that he isn't on the team anymore.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
The rotation doesn't scare me
Our top 4 starters are all under 30 with successful Major League experience successful
The bullpen on the other hand…
R.I.P. King Ad-Rock #34
Keep dreaming
If the Halos go into the 2010 season without bolstering the pen, getting a power bat, or adding a proven starter – at least two of those three things – I don’t seen them winning more than 85 games, which probably wouldn’t be enough to get it done in the AL West, and makes it even less likely that they’ll advance to the World Series. But hey, at least I’ll be able to listen to Jose Mota do color on AM 830 when I’m driving in areas of the Southland where the station actually comes in…
I remember people saying last year
that we’d struggle to win 85 games. We won 97. I expect the Angels to face the Yanks in the ALCS again in 2010. However, this time were headed for a championship.
Kenny, the Mariners won 85 games last year...
and they didnt have a solid power bat. They also only, really had one solid starter and the transition from starter to closer was shaky at best for them. Also, maybe you should go and look at the team that won the WS in 2002. Their roster wasn’t exactly sparkling with a solid five-man rotation.
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Dec 15, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
speaking of, look how much stronger the Mariners got for next year.
that is going to make our job that much harder.
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
Figgins is an improvement over Beltre
only if both players do exactly what they did last year. Figgins will likely regress and Beltre improve making it pretty much a wash.
Lee is substantially better than Washburn as a pitcher, but Washburn was lights out for the Mariners last year until he got traded.
So yeah the Mariners are better, but the players they are replacing weren’t terrible either.
How much stronger are the Mariners?
OK, I’ll bite.
Without looking anything up:
Name their #4 and #5 starters. Heck, I’ll give you their #3 starter just for fun: Ian Snell (the same guy who walks more guys than he strikes out).
Name their Catcher.
Name their 1st Baseman.
Name their Left Fielder.
Do you trust their 40 yr old DH?
Name one player on their bench. One.
Who’s going to replace Russell Branyan’s 31 HR’s?
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Dec 15, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
exactly
remember when the Angels had Finley, Langston and Abbott all in their primes???? Those guys all did great but 3 pitchers does not a team make, let alone two albeit outstanding starting pitchers.
3 pitchers and leading the league in runs
which I would put odds of about 200-1 that the M’s won’t do next year
Thank you for saving me the work
This myth about “how much better the Mariners are” is pretty pernicious right now.
They should improve, but improving and winning the division are two very different things. The team also has some gaping holes still to fill, and needs some fairy dust in the form of a player having a career year or a rookie playing lights-out to make a serious charge on the Angels.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 15, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
Couldn't those same, or similar, questions been posed of the Angels on December 15, 2001?
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
What I'm saying is
Don’t count them out just ’cause theres a couple of unknowns. That definitely worked for us at some point in the not too distant past!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
I don't agree
Our 2001 team was fairly solid – we only added Fullmer to our lineup over the winter. We had some injuries in 2001 (mainly Tim Salmon), but otherwise we had some pretty good production in Glaus and Anderson, along with young up-and-comers in Molina, Kennedy, and Eckstein. We entered spring training 2002 with a set lineup, all experienced.
Yes, our pitching had question marks, but we went into spring training with a set five man rotation of Washburn, Ortiz, Schoenweis, Appier, and Sele – nothing to sneeze at. The current Mariners can’t make that claim, either.
Maybe Seattle surprises everybody – yes, it can happen – but that’s just what it will be. A surprise. Otherwise, I don’t see them as drastically improved over last year as others do.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Dec 15, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
It is pretty amazing how basically the same lineup
with only the addition of Fullmer scored 160 more runs…
The pitching changes were significant though. 2002 added Sele, Appier, Lackey, Donnely, Shields and for the playoffs, Rodriguez.
j u i c e
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
True enough
But I think the media/other team’s fanbases would have looked at us at the time and also asked where half our production was going to come from—remember we’d just finished 41 games back of the division, and even in the WS the marvel was that such a team of such relative unknowns could get that far.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Give me Ardolis Chapman
and ill be a happy dude
Still, I wish Nick was here
by adirondackangelfan on Dec 15, 2009 11:32 AM PST reply actions
Might as well at this point with all the $$ coming off the books
A pipeline of talent, welcome to Anaheim.
by ClutchHomer on Dec 15, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
Not counting arbitration...
we’ve got about 35 million to spend going forward if we expect to match last years payroll. That already includes the Matsui and Abreu contracts.
forget a proven ace! I want a 21 year old with no professional experience!
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
What proven ace? There wasn't one on the market.
Surely, you’re not referring to the guy that averaged 169 innings pitched the last two years.
Oh come on
I’m sure he does mean him—the same guy who also posted a well-above-average ERA+ of 119 and 118, respectively, those same two years. The guy who almost single-handedly cut down, just this past October, the very team he just now joined. Yeah. That guy. A few missed starts in his case meant virtually nothing.
But you’re right—in the third or fourth or fifth year of his new contract, it won’t continue to mean nothing—it may well have an effect as he continues into the early and then later stages of his own decline.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
yeah his injuries werent the kind you mess around with for 85 mil
If it had been something freakish or whatever- broken bones, torn ligaments, etc… maybe. But Lackey had arm problems. You really want to spend 85 million on an arm with problems at age 29? Is there anyone who thinks they wont be magnified by age 35?
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 15, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Looks like the Red Sox are thinking the same thing.
Red Sox asking for “protection” against arm problems.
Deal looking a lot better if they can get this.
Yes, we'll win a lot
But, the division?
If Seattle stays healthy, they’ll battle down to the wire. And if this thing ends like it did in ‘95, then I like Seattle’s 1-2 punch much better than ours. Seriously think about that for a moment. Seattle has a DOMINANT 1-2 that is better than our very good 1-2-3. That combination is built for the postseason—if they can get that far, they have to like their chances.
I’m on board for another great season. I’m certain we’ll win a lot of ball games. What I’m most disappointed in is that the club just doesn’t feel like one to root for. Who are the personable characters? Sure, there’s Torii and Bobby and Howie and an emerging face in KMO, but outside that, it feels more corporate. Despite a majority of homegrown talent, our biggest faces are bought (Torii, Bobby, and Matsui).
Last week, my four year old wanted to play ball in the street. He wanted to be Chone Figgins and wanted me to be Bobby Abreu. I had to tell him that Chone won’t be playing for the Angels next year and all he could think to ask is “Well, when he comes back, I’ll be Chone Figgins.” He didn’t understand that he wasn’t coming back…
These are the points which matter to a fan regardless of wins. We’ll still love our ballclub if they win 75 games instead of 95. But we’re going to miss some very popular and friendly faces.
www.13stoploss.com
"Chone left because he doesn't love you anymore"
Problem solved.
Seriously, my son had a Jim Edmonds poster up on his wall. It was hard to explain to him that he wasn’t on the team anymore, but Timmy, Garret, and Darin were. It didn’t make any sense to him.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Dec 15, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
I had to explain Chone's departure for Seattle this morning to a lady in my art class, an Angels fan,
because somehow she hadn’t heard. She really is a fan, just not a FANOMGPONIES. She looked at my photos that I included and recognized the players from their figures/postures without getting up really close to see their faces.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
Trick Question
I’m with you AND I think you’re a fool.
Stop believing in the Angels? I sooner part with a limb
Oh…bad analogy
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
muahhaha....awesome Moondoggy....
way to keep it positive.
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Dec 15, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
john lackey may be gone
but the angels will continue to fly flags
#34 Nick Adenhart Will Always Be Remembered
by Sorbo182 on Dec 15, 2009 11:40 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
The freaking out yesterday was WAY over the top.
I remain generally optimistic for 2010 and beyond. Put me in the camp of “I can’t control it anyway, so I’m going to sit back, enjoy, and hope for the best”. The season is always full of unexpected surprises (good and bad).
One year ago, who accurately predicted the 2009 Angel season?
Heh, nice.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Guys named Weaver, Saunders, Morales, Hunter, Rivera, Kazmir, Aybar, etc
Had as much or more to do with our run last year than guys named Figgins, Lackey, or even Guerrero.
"Well make more fuckin' money. This is America. You don't make money, then you're a fuckin' douchebag." - Mr French "The Departed"
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter
Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 15, 2009 11:54 AM PST reply actions
Figgy was a great leadoff man last year...
but otherwise, good point!
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Dec 15, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
? Game 1 SHUTOUT.
that was the most important win all season. Who pitched that one . . ?
Rivera? PS 222/222/278 VLad? 378/425/541 Hmmmm. . .
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
Saunders, Arredondo, Shields and Fuentes.
Personally, I cringed at the idea of trading away Saunders.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
And who put us on the board and over the top in that first game?
Oh that’s right, Torii Hunter with a three-run bomb. Plating others who also are still on the team, iirc.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
as we have seen in previous years, 3 runs a W does not make. HOWEVER, a shutout most certainly a W does make.
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
And who threw a 1-run shutout for basically the same 7 innings in game 2
Jered Weaver, who is still here. The big hits and runs involved Aybar, Abreu, and Napoli who are all still here.
You have a 25 man roster during the regular season. We still have 20 of our Division winning players.
"Well make more fuckin' money. This is America. You don't make money, then you're a fuckin' douchebag." - Mr French "The Departed"
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter
Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 15, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
*Edit
I don’t know why I put shutout in that.
Apparently this is what happens when you stare at computer screens all day.
"Well make more fuckin' money. This is America. You don't make money, then you're a fuckin' douchebag." - Mr French "The Departed"
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter
Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 15, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions
That is what was so Awesome! a #1 and a #2 dominating the Sux.
Now we only have the one of them left.
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, but next year is an even numbered year (2010)
Even numbered Santana of 2006 and 2008 just might show up.
Plus Weaver and Saunders continue to get better. And it’s not like Kazmir is a chump.
"Well make more fuckin' money. This is America. You don't make money, then you're a fuckin' douchebag." - Mr French "The Departed"
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter
Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 15, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
I trust this front office
The Angels have holes to fill, and they’ll be weaker than last year if they don’t fill them by opening day. At the same time, I think this FO has shown far more vision than most of us have (who else besides Acuda predicted the rise of Morales last year?).
The sky is not falling, but the Ninja needs to dust off his mask!
by yeswecan on Dec 15, 2009 11:55 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Totally with you...
No doubt though the Matsui signing is bizarre. However, if it is a move to make more money for the franchise through Japanese market then by all means, go for it. Especially since next year is going to be a huge year for free agents and so why not save money now to increase it next year?
In addition, even with the addition of Harden to Texas and Lee/Figgins to Seattle, this Angels team is still better. Hell, I am not even entirely convinced that this Angels team couldnt beat Boston or a New York. Remember 2002? How many aces did we have on that staff? Who was our leadoff hitter Right…a bunch of nobodies at that point. Were still a good team….no time to freak out.
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Dec 15, 2009 12:03 PM PST reply actions
Obviously, Abilene John loves to play 2nd (or 3rd) fiddle in a rotation.
This guy ain’t The Man, as he prefers hiding behind the collective skirts of Beckett, Lester, and possibly Dice-K. May the Monster rise up to greet you and the Boston media fishbowl suffocate you.
Thanks for the memories, John Lackey .............. now go fuck yourself, you BoSox Bastard!
Wonder if Lackey
starts on the DL or not?
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
As WE know, it's not how he starts, it's how he finishes.
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
with a tantrum?
"come on, eileen."
by retrohalo on Dec 15, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
wow! you just want to slag the guy who finally put us over the top of the Red Sox.
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 5:50 PM PST up reply actions
Here let's use your logic and quote from another post:
" Regardless, the point is . . . .
FAIL"
See how ridiculous absolutes are?
I was actually hoping
that the sux make it to playoffs, only to have Lackey sit on the bench behind Beckett, Lester, and DiceK. He wants to be a # 1. How about not making a 3-man playoff rotation. Justice.
This could be win.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
If you haven't noticed, the last two years Lackey has been a far better postseason pitcher than Becky.
by Wally's World on Dec 15, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
Can we distill this thinking?
For posterity?
Look, I get the Lackey-love and loyalty thing. I’m on record as being a fan of his work since 2000 and I get it – to a point.
So a hypothetical:
Let’s assume, for the purpose of argument, the Sox announce in the next few hours that they’ve been unable to come to terms with Lackey. Say, hmm, they want the rumored elbow insurance clause in the contract and he does not want to give it.
Would it be your position that the Angels FO should then immediately extend him an offer for 5 years/$85 million – the assumed Sox offer amount? Are you saying you are down-town with stepping in and immediately tendering him $17 million in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 & 2014 seasons – or some equivalent distribution?
Just wondering.
"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Not an optoin
For me, having him come back at that price would go against so much of what this front office is about. They have a plan. I believe at some point they presented their best offer and he took more (how much more we may never know). Holiday taking 20/per for 3 years tells me that Boston probably over paid, and that’s fine by me. Let them waste resources, there should be plenty of opportunities for us to improve in the near future.
You are what you type.
I already traded john lackey away in MLB 2k8
last year.
His digitized mole was too much to handle in 1080p.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
Gross.
But funny none the less. Maybe his $85 mil can buy him a trip to a dermatologist. It isn’t like Lackey is Cindy Crawford…
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
What's going on this side?
http://www.hulu.com/watch/20833/the-simpsons-cletus
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Ha?
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Slack-jawed yokel.
Nevermind.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Yeah, yeah, got it.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Without her mole I wouldn't recognize her, but I think I'd still know it was Big John.
Was that your point?
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
I'm sure I had a point earlier...
Just bad humor I guess. Get that shepherd’s crook to yank me offstage.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
I got your point.
There was this actor, Bobby Morse. He had his ugly-ass mole removed and it was if he had been erased from the surface of the earth for about 20 years. He still worked, but I hardly recognized him. He’s on Mad Men now.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
I'll have to look him up.
I’ve just become addicted to Mad Men. I love that show. Can’t believe I’ve missed it until just now.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
He got a couple of Tonys for his work on Broadway, one for How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying.
Played the same role, J. Pierpont Finch, in the movie.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
Oh, he's Cooper!
Good actor, just never knew his name. That show is filled with good performers. I particularly like Cambell’s stuck-up wife (Alison Brie)…for reasons in addition to her acting…she’s hilarious in Community, and was one of the reasons I began to watch MM.
Of course, Jon Hamm’s john ham skit on SNL was funny stuff, too. “The Ham You Can Eat in the Bathroom”. “If it feels like a slice of ham, don’t wipe your ass with it”.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
I traded him away last year too
and kotchman for M. Cabrera.
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on Dec 15, 2009 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
I'm with you Matt
We will win because that is what we do.
Top 4 of the rotation of Weaver, Saunders, Santana and Kazmir is pretty good. I think Kazmir will be helped by Butcher, and be a more economical pitcher (throw less pitches, and go deeper into games).
I like Wood at 3rd, and Matsui as the DH. I’m sorry to see Figgy, Lackey and Vladdy go, but that is the business of baseball in 2009
We're putting the band back togehter.
Here's a #5 Starter idea
I think the Angels have the best front 4 starters in the game.
Maybe no #1 there (although I think Kazmir and Weaver can be #1’s over the next few years as they mature). But we’ve got four #2’s and #3’s.
Any decent 10 game winner for #5 will be enough to clinch the division based on the caliper of our first four.
But here’s an idea for a #5 starter who went 11-2 last year with a 3.93 ERA (with 13 GS).
At times, he pitched like a #3.
I say we pick him up.
Wait, we already have him.
Why no love for Matt Palmer?
To end, I admit, that making it far in the playoffs, it helps to have two #1’s. Let’s hope for some big growth with Jared and Scott.
Matt is a good pitcher
but he got an absurd amount of runs every time he toed the slab…if I’m not mistaken it was north of 6 runs a game.
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 15, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
So the hitters love him too?
Yeah… that must be it. He’s such an inspiring pitcher that the offense steps up to get him the W.
It almost seemed that way.
It was so strange last year when everyone was on the DL and all the other guys were hitting like mad.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
Palmer had an awesome and unexpected year.
To expect lightning to strike twice may lead to disappointment. If the Halos do not sign a proven starter (if healthy…Sheets, Wang, Bedard, Mulder, also Garland, Pineiro amongst others), I’m sure he’ll be in the mix along with SOS, Grandson of Bozo Bell, Reckling, Walden, etc.
I’m hoping Sheets or Wang get a one year, incentive laded deal, even if they are both risks and Wang may not be ready to start the year.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
I'd love to see them
give Wang or Sheets a 1 (maybe 2) year deal
9 Gold Gloves and counting...
by Gold Glove Hunter 48 on Dec 15, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Both pitchers have talent.
Wang is the ground ball pitcher, Sheets can pile up the Ks. If either of them pass our Halo doctor’s physical (no Wang jokes here), let’s give them a go. If they do great, we can either re-sign them or allow them to depart via free agency, which means more draft picks! If their arms fall off, we still have SOS et al.
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Isn't Wang the guy that gave up 14-runs in one inning to the Cleveland Indians last year, though?
Yeah, that scars me and hence scares me away from him…!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
I don't know, without researching that, at least.
Probably. He was rotten last year, but he was injured.
I remember ‘06 and ’07 when he had 19 wins each year with sub 4 ERAs. He does give up a lot of hits, and can’t strike someone out to save his life, but if he’s healthy, I say go for it and see what happens.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Eh, k, I guess may as well.
Though I’d like to see the kids get a chance…but meh.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Yeah, I'm conflicted by the SP question.
I love seeing our prospects turn to players, but 2010 will be a year where, if the Angels want to remain ahead of the pack rather than coming back to the rest of the AL West, we can’t afford to have a large question mark at the back end of the rotation, especially with the history of arm trouble with Kaz and Voodoo.
I’m ok with SOS, Ortega, Bell, Palmer, Mendoza, Reckling, Walden, et al, being 6,7,8,9,10, 11, and 12 plus on the SP depth chart.
But I’d like to see a one year deal with Sheets and his oft-broken cronies.
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This team is still really good...
At some point all players grow up and move away or retire. This team has done well in the past when replaced FAs and will continue to do well in the future.
I realize I rarely post here ...
and that my credibility is not well established here, but I did want to throw in my two cents (and I appreciate the venue for venting) …
I believe the Angels still have a good team and I look forward to next season. But at the same time, the team has not quite been good enough to win the World Series as is — something has been missing since 2002 anyway.
That said, it’s hard to feel good about an off season that has seen our lead off hitter go to a division rival, that same division rival pick up a Cy Young winning level pitcher and to see the staff ace sign with the one team I least want to see him pitching for.
Yes, when the dust settles there are still reasons to feel good about the 25 man roster and the organization is still filled with prospects and future draft picks. But emotionally it is very hard to feel optimistic today. I’m going to need a few weeks to feel better — though a move by the Angels could swing my mood in an instant.
Thanks again for giving me a place to let off some steam.
yes... I'm forcing myself to drink the juice also
I have loved the Angels since I was a kid and was really frustrated with us failing in every goal that we set out to accomplish this off season. I just kinda felt like we are becoming the Dodgers for a minute. But truth be told, I wanted figgy gone for a poor post season history, and Lackey was too much money. Halladay just didn’t want to be here. I don’t blame the FO but just really sad as I had high hopes of landing Halladay. : (
So now lets just see what happens next. I’m ready to cheer on Wood and if he can be Morales 2.0 and we make some spashes in the next off season then I would be a happy Angel Fan. :)
A good team
Re-tools on the fly, and that is exactly what the Angels are doing. There won’t be a decade long rebuilding project (Pittsburgh, KC, Washington, I’m looking at you!), and while they may not be at the level of 2009, they are still good for 88-92 wins in what should be a very competitive AL West.
Should the race be as tight as expected in July/August, the Angels have the prospects to make a deal. But, there is still 2 months until pitchers and catcher report for spring training, and a lot can happen in between now and then.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
While the M's undeniably got a lot better
I still think we’re the favorites for the division. Best line-up for sure. Hopefully we pick up a good starter and reliever. If not, it could still come together ok.
It’s not an overreaction to say that we’ve lost a bit of a handle on the division. We’re not going to win it comfortably. But in the end, we’ll find a way. Would feel a lot more comfortable if we made one more move to improve the pitching.
Quick take
If he is 2008 Santana and not 2009 Santana It helps.
Need some relief help.
Do not sign Bay as a knee jerk reaction.
The Mariners are no sure thing. Their offense is an abomination.
Play Wood already. Willits sucks.
I'd take Lowe
If it meant dealing GMJ. There is less of a spot for him this season than there was last season.
I saw Lowe pitch a lot here in the ATL. He was wild, and up in the zone. Roger McDowell, the Braves pitching coach, is no Leo Mazzone, that’s for sure. I know this is the case for really all pitchers, but if Lowe gets a mechanical tune-up and keeps the ball down in the zone, he’ll be a good asset for whatever team he ends up on.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
I love the idea of actual competition in Sepember
I’d rather have the Angels roaring into the playoffs (hopefully) than just strolling in
Yep, I think going in as the WC in 02 made us the better team
If there is no fight going in (see 2008) we cant seem to put it together. I think we need someone to push us (see record vs good teams)
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 15, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
We'll be fine
Glad folks have calmed down since yesterday. Matsui will mash and we will pick up some pitching help. Would be amusing to get Bedard and watch him beat Lee and the M’s in a huge game at the end of the year, getting Figgy to hit a weak grounder to end the game…
Matsui: Power, Patience, and Porn. What more can you ask for?
Here!
Present!
Pernission to come aboard The Optimist, Sir? It would be a pleasure to serve.
"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
We will win
I haven’t posted much around here since the regular season ended, but I am surprised by the initial reaction yesterday. We were very quiet last year during the offseason. Our only moves were to sign Fuentes to a short-term deal and to sign Abreu to a one-year deal. Many fans were critical of the Angels then too.
I agree with the organization’s philosophy — signing free agents in their early-to-mid 30s to multi-year contracts is not sound. We have to make our best efforts to get the elite guys, but if they can’t be signed at reasonable prices, we should move on with what we have.
We have been overwhelmingly successful since 2002 at letting our aging veterans leave to sign big contracts elsewhere while replacing them with our own talent. In fact, I would argue that we have been better at it than anyone.
Are we better with Figgins than without him? Yes, very likely so. But should we pay $36 million to him with a vesting option for a fifth year? I think not, especially with Wood waiting to take his place. Are we better with Lackey than without him? Of course we are. But is he worth $85 million over 5 years? I’m not convinced of that, given that he has had significant DL stints the past two seasons. Would we be better with Halladay or Lee? That depends on what we would have to give up, and in Lee’s case, the upside would be for one year while the downside could last a very long time.
All in all, I’m extremely pleased with how management runs the team. Not only do I understand that the team has financial restrictions that place us at a competitive disadvantage compared to the Yankees and Red Sox, but I also am happy to root for a team that gives its young players the opportunity to step up and fill the shoes of our former stars.
Go Angels!
I can get blue like the rest of them
Hell, we’ve already lost The Wonder Dog, Figgy, Big Thunder, and Vlad (more or less).
That stings for a while, then it wears off.
Count me as one of the ones who believe we’ll still be in fighting shape by May (the month of April will be spent on the DL).
"Death to the opposition!" - Commander Worf, First Baseman: The Niners
The Angels
I think the Angels will still be good. Their offense is streaky and it is scary we saw in 09 that they shut down at times in the Yankees series. We will the AL west but do not have that ace that is needed to win a world series If you look at recent world series winners, CC Yankees 2009, Cole Hamels Phillies 2008, Josh Beckett 2007, Chris Carpenter 2006 Cardinals, etc… And as a fan it is tiring to see the same thing unless that is a world series. The realization is the Angels are not a world series club their closer is shaky Shields return will help. But as a fan I want a world series not another division title. I just don’t see it with the pitching they are deep but we don’t have a number 1 that can dominantate in October.
Bring back Lackey
by Angelsrthebest101 on Dec 15, 2009 2:10 PM PST reply actions
If we could win the World Series with "Aces" like..
…Kevin Appier, Jarrod Washburn, Aaron Sele and Ramon Ortiz, then I think we have a fighting chance with Weaver, Saunders, Kazmir and Santana.
by sothball on Dec 15, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Indeed
I take issue with the assertion that Cole Hamels, in particular, is an “ace.” If so, they why were the Phillies so desperate to add either Halladay or Lee last summer? Hamels is a good pitcher who got hot at the right time. All four members of the Halos’ rotation are equally capable of stringing together three consecutive wins at any given point in time.
Meanwhile, as good as Sabathia was against the Angels, the Angels were one dumb pitch by Fuentes away from reversing that series. Likewise, fortuitous scheduling for the Yankees allowed him to pitch when he did.
by jjackflash on Dec 15, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Fuentes gave up the tying run. I can't even remember who gave up the go-ahead run because everyone has pointed at Fuentes ever since.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
Well yeah, kind of like the Donnie Moore thing--he didn't give up the go-ahead either, did he?
Fuentes put us in the position of having to battle even more than we already had—and in so doing sucked the life and momentum out of us.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
For that game, anyway.
Which certainly didn’t help going back to Anaheim.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
The problem with Hamels is that whenever he pitches,
Some random old guy comes out of the stands and acts like he’s the pitching coach.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Thanks, this really does help.
It’s good to a reminder like this sort! Rec’d!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
On the fence stiring the Kool-aid
I think it’s been a real bad week for the franchise. For those who think the Mariners and Sox over-paid, you will be right in year four of the Figgins deal and in year five of the Lackey deal. We will miss those guys in 2010 and 2011, and anyone who seriously believes the Angels are better in those years without them is most likely delusional.
With Halladay off the radar, there’s limited options to improve the rotation in 2010. Harden would have been a low-risk, high-upside option. He’s in Texas. If Ninja takes on the albatross contract of Lowe at $15m per year, he’s lost his mind (unless he sheds HGHs contract in the process); this leaves Sheets or Pinero? Seriously, pitch Palmer instead of spending money on either of those guys.
I do think the AL West is stronger, and the Angels have not YET improved for 2010. Winning the division will be more difficult next season. I still have hope, but it’s waning….
I always believe in these guys...
regardless of the moves, in the past 7 years they have earned our trust in them. I really think Kaz’s performance is going to be a big factor in the season. He was the centerpiece in a world series starting rotation only 2 years ago and I think he can lead this young group of guys forward. I have no problem signing Bay then trading johnny rivers for a good starting pitcher not named Lowe. I just don’t trust Lowe for whatever reason.
Halos in 2010!
2009 Angels Offseason = Cardiac Roller Coaster
Halladay? Lackey? Bay? Holliday? Del Taco?
If anything, yesterday just means the Wild Card could come from the West
Personally, I would welcome the chance at a playoff run that doesn’t include BOTH the Red Sox and Yankees.
As it stands right now, I think the Rangers or possibly Mariners have a chance of taking the WC from the Sox.
"Well make more fuckin' money. This is America. You don't make money, then you're a fuckin' douchebag." - Mr French "The Departed"
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter
Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
Possibly
If the Mariners offense can score enough runs and Harden, Holland, and Feldman can stay healthy and be productive then both have a good chance. I still like the Angels for the AL West and unfortunately the Yankees or Red Sox for the WC
RIP Nick Adenhart
Rays
Should be better next year, too. They weren’t bad this year. Their young and talented rotation figures to improve. They’ve still got Longoria, Pena, Bartlett et al. I expect a resurgence from the Rays in 2010.
This would be cool, although the Halos may be the WC.
But we remember what happened last time that was the case! LET’S GO DO THIS!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
The Cliff Lee pickup gives the Mariners a nice one year “pick me up”. He is around a 5 (WAR) win pitcher, who probably replaces a 1 win pitcher in the rotation for a 4 win gain. Figgins is also a nice pickup, but that leads me to my question as to what has officially happened to Adrian Beltre? Was he offered arbitration, or is he a free agent? I think Figgins becomes a wash (in 2010) if they lose Beltre.
vr, Xei
Lee is basically replacing Washburn...
who isn’t a good pitcher but for some reason was incredibly good last year until he was traded.
Thanks
The Mariners finished 12 games behind the Angels last year, but you have to assume there is quite a bit of noise in determining by now many wins were the Angels better last year. Let’s just regress it to 10 for arguments sake.
Let’s then look at the major moves between the two teams
Seattle:
1. Lee – Washburn (or Seattle 5th pitcher) 5-1= +4 wins
2. Figgins – Beltre +0 wins
Total: +4 wins
LA of A
1. Wood – Figgins 1-4 = -3 wins
2. Palmer – Lackey 1.5 – 4 = -2.5 wins
3. Matsui – Vlady 2-2 = +0 wins
Total: -5.5 wins
Net gain for Seattle is 9-1/2 wins
Note: This is a modestly simplistic approach and there are still moves left to be made by both teams and my WAR estimates are just that… estimates.
vr, Xei
Look, I like Palmer but I think last year may have been a bit of a fluke.
I think we will have someone else as a starter, maybe someone we pick up later.
(I don’t know what 1.5 WAR means. I’m a girl.)
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
WAR
is “Wins Above Replacement player”. It basically means that that player is worth X wins to the team over a random minor league call-up (minor league call-ups typically have a WAR of 0).
In this example it means that Matt Palmer’s WAR of 1.5 means he is worth 1.5 wins to the Angels over the course of the season.
For comparison purposes Cliff Lee has a WAR of 6.2 and John Lackey 3.9. Jarrod Washburn had a WAR of 2.1 last year.
Thanks. Wait, how many wins did Mattie have last year? 11 wins and 13 saves out of 40 games? Lost 2 games.
Matt’s general statistics are really deceptive. All the power hitters and half the pitchers had the sniffles, so the non-power guys put on a big show, and so did Palmer. It was weird, and deliriously entertaining, but I don’t see how to make statistical sense from what he and they did at that time.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
Incomplete
Where do Branyan’s 31 HR fit into the equation? He’s gone. Who has replaced him in Seattle?
Thanks. That’s a good addition. Like I said, it was a simplistic. This adds further data.
That probably drops the Mariners down from a 9-1/2 net gain to a 7-1/2 net gain, but like you said it’s incomplete because they will be signing someone at some point to replace him. If they can get a league average 1B or slightly better, then they’ve done that. Any other starters that I’ve left off?
vr, Xei
As you note - there's a few holes in the projection...
1) Seattle didn’t have Bedard or Washburn for the last 2 months of the year forcing the use of spare parts (Vargas, Olson, and Jakabauskas) at an ERA of over 6.
2) Seattle has Felix, Lee, Ryan Rowland-Smith, Brandon Morrow, and Ian Snell/Doug Fister. Snell’s ERA as a starter last year would result in maybe 30 to 40 less runs at the 4/5 slot.
3) Lee’s importance for Seattle is that he likely equalizes Washburn’s strong first half and weak second half splits from 2009.
4) Beltre only played in 111 games last year. Seattle used Hannahan the rest of the time. Figgins is clearly better than Hannahan.
I seem to remember Beltre as pretty good last year.
Is that just senility and wishful thinking because he’s a FA?
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
senility
he hit .265/.304/.379/.683 last year with 8 homers in 449 ABs.
…ouch
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Dec 15, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
lol
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Dec 15, 2009 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
I'm still on board
We still have one hell of a pitching staff and a pretty potent lineup. The Mariners don’t scare me.
HOW MUCH longer til spring training??? Ugh...
I'm on board with this isn't the end of the world
I am not on board with the Angels winning the West in 2010. I don’t think they will be terrible and they may tweak the roster enough to have a shot.
I think long term, letting both Figgy and Lackey go is the right thing to do. The Halos were not good enough to win a ring even if they brought those two back. It is better to cycle down and rebuild through the draft and free agency for a run 2 or 3 years from now.
C'mon people!! How can you not remember
W6G!!
We Will Win with what we Got!!! Lets just laugh when lackey doesnt start the season because of an arm injury and by the time he is recovered, boston is already done. Lets boo him when the play against us and when we destroy him.. We will win no doubt.
Lou Brown"You traded my best player to our rivals for no-one?"
Roger Dorn"Well i didn't get nothing, i got a player from the Giants....Not those Giants"
RIP Nick Adenhart.
Hooray for lame ass slogans and laughing at players on the DL.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Dec 15, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
Its how i roll.
Lou Brown"You traded my best player to our rivals for no-one?"
Roger Dorn"Well i didn't get nothing, i got a player from the Giants....Not those Giants"
RIP Nick Adenhart.
by WillGoAngels27 on Dec 15, 2009 8:39 PM PST up reply actions
Now it's We Will Win With What We have left!
Now stuck in Colorado Springs
by stuck in Romania on Dec 15, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
That's ok.
Ain’t gonna boo him unless he loses his mind and decides to bean one of our guys.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
How about...
…Lackey’s face photo-shopped onto the guy booted into the bottomless well, with the Rally Monkey yelling, “THIS…IS…ANAHEIM!!!!!”…it will say what we think in a humorous way.
I'm not going to boo him
but I’m not giving him the Spiezio welcome, either. He gets nothing.
Hey, this “it’s a business” thing cuts both ways!
I'd BOO - no doubt....
if i still lived in the area. I’d boo him if the Saux played their spring ball in AZ. NO ONE gets to wear that shitty BoSox uni without getting boo’d IMO
Free Brandon Wood!
Death is always an option
Or he could have retired!
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
optimistic to a degree
The following players will have Good to great years
-Kendrick, kazmir, Weaver, Juan Rivera, KMO
The following will have above average to totally acceptable years
-Wood, Aybar, Abreu, Mathis-Napoli Hybrid, Hunter Santana
The following will have bad years
-Fuentes, mathews, Itzturis (injuries)
The others like Shields, Saunders and whomever we get to pitch on the 5th day will be unknowns.
I am optimistic for 93 wins however with NY and Boston and TB in the east, Chi, Minn in the Central Wild card might just be out of range so division is our only hope.
That leaves us with a totally revamped, and not done yet, Seattle, A partially improved Texas and an up and coming Oak.
I think we can win the division but in the first round having to face a team with us having no true ace is worrysome
However I don’t think we are done yet, a small addition might be coming and it might be enough for now
Lets go Angels!!!
My prediction as of 12-11-2009- Wood .265 avg, 20 HRs 70 RBIs and an above average glove at 3b
by Sinatrasratpack on Dec 15, 2009 3:22 PM PST reply actions
Here is what I hate about the optimists:
90% of people here said Lackey was the number one concern for the off-season, when he goes elsewhere, all the optimists say “no big deal, we don’t want a 30+ pitcher to a long-term deal anyway”.
You can’t have it both ways.
Our biggest loss this off-season was Rex Hudler. Having to listen to Gubicza is going to be nauseating.
Go team.
I've got nothing.
High school mentality.
Duuuuuude that girl is so hot. Im gonna ask her out.
She turned me down.
What a fat slut.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Dec 15, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
It would have been nice to have Lackey back...
at the right price. Sometimes you just have to go with what is dealt to you. Lackey wanted too much money, he’s not an “Ace” pitcher and it would be foolish for the Angels to give him “Ace” money. Boston made a bad signing and in the long run this will probably hurt them.
You do your best to pay players what they are worth. If you can’t get value then you regroup and try again next year or make other moves to compensate. What you don’t do is force things.
If you do that you end up with a team full of the likes of GMJ and Vernon Wells.
Oh Cod, you just brought back life-scarring memories from my college days,
of the gorgeous girl in my class who declared that she was a lesbian, proceeded to hit on the other girls in the department and to be hit on by every delusional guy with one of two fantasies on his mind.
I was an old married woman of 26 at that point, and it was hard to watch the guys lose their minds. They never asked her out before she made her declaration, though. This was in the Music Department and it caused more than a little disruption within the performance classes (choir, orchestra, etc.)
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
this would make for an interesting... "movie"
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Dec 15, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
insert
bow chicka bow wow music here, please.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Dec 15, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
Ha! It was 1976, so you'd have to cast Candace Bergen and Elliott Gould as the main characters.
Cod, that was a terrible movie, “Getting Straight”. The scene I actually liked was Gould doing the NY Times crossword in ink in order to pick up a girl. It was the previous day’s paper, and he’d memorized the answers so it looked like he was a genius.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
I always do crosswords in pen.
I do, however, use pencils for sudoku.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
You're a better man than I am.
Especially since I’m not a man.
I do Sudoku online. I did them in pencil for a while but for me the online ones are better.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
Yes we can!
Halos Heaven is like Burger King, we get it our way right away.
Lackey leaving hurts, but it doesn’t take The Angels out of the hunt. He isn’t worth what he’s making and I’m glad the Angels didn’t give it to him. But I wish he would have signed a more reasonable contract to stay in Anaheim.
And although it kills me that he’s going to be in Boston, I probably won’t boo him.
Unless he pitches a gem against us and then he doesn’t get anything I wouldn’t give another opposing pitcher.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
Agreed. He won't get boos from me
He’ll just get dismissive silence and some rather cutting remarks that will do serious damage to his ego when our hitters bust him up.
The same as I would do to any other opposing pitcher.
"Well make more fuckin' money. This is America. You don't make money, then you're a fuckin' douchebag." - Mr French "The Departed"
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter
Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 16, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
Are you in a winter wonderland?
the Mariners will lose Beltre and Ken Griffey Jr is a year older their offense may go down. Ichiro and Figgins is a great combo at the top but who bats towards the bottom of that line up? Although I except them to win more close games between their pitching and if Bedard gets healthy.
The Athletics are an up and coming team but just dont have the offense yet to really compete in the AL West, although their second half record was pretty scary.
I am not sure why everyone believes that the Rangers are not a threat to win the division. They DOMINATED our team last year, and the only reason they fell apart was their offensive injuries and their young pitchers hitting the wall. If anything, I’d call the Rangers an equal favorite to win the division
the fact is that the Angels havent gotten better and show no signs of improvement this season. Unless you think Aybar is the next Jeter, thats his best production. Unless Kendry is Albert Pujols, I think he hit his ceiling and Saunders, Weaver…those were some career like years. And they lost their lead off hitter and #1 starter…you cannot deny that they havent IMPROVED
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
Let's keep our heads here
First of all Bedard is a free agent and not likely to re-up with Seattle. Saunders had his career year in ’08. Last season he battled a shoulder issue and probably had his worst year, statistically, as a big leaguer. He pitched much better as his shoulder got taken care of in the second half. Add in that Santana should be healthy and stronger next year and our rotation might just be a bit better.
It’s been pointed out ad-nauseam around here, but the OFFSEASON IS NOT OVER YET. This is an incomplete roster and thus no one here can make any judgements yet on whether or not we are improved. Will we pick up a starter that is better than Lackey? No. Will Aybar or Izzy be a better leadoff hitter than Figgy? Most likely not. This team is cyclical. Every year a new young player is broken in while an old favorite vet (or two) is shown the door. So while some of last season’s strengths will be diminished next season, new strengths will surface, resulting in yet another 90+ wins. Kind of last this past season, when our pitching stopped being elite, our offense finally came together and carried the load. I have no problem with the team having a different look from year to year as long as it continues to result in division titles. And please, spare me the “yeah, division title and then get swept in the first round!” bullshit cuz I don’t wanna hear it.
The Angels will be OK but this counts as a rebuilding year
Every time the Angels have made the ALCS they’ve missed the playoffs the following year.
There was no way they could afford to overpay for Lackey and swallow those last couple of years. In my opinion you only break the bank for future hall of famers and since none were available this time they might as well bide their time and let some homegrown talent have a shot. The Angels have had some fairly good luck with this over the years so lets hope it continues.
Even if the Angels do win the division
Their offense will again struggle in a cold environment such as Minesota, Chicago or Detroit or New York/Boston….and in terms of staffs and these every other day offs in the playoffs that MLB wants, going against Beckett, Lester, Lackey, Matsui, Buckholtz with the same offense, or going against Sabathia and Burnett in the cold and trying to shut down Curtis Granderson is ridiculous too
Consider it a close division race, 90 wins, a first round matchup with the Yanks and another doneski
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
Holy Nostradamus!
How do you do it? My crystal ball broke when I was a kid, so I just can’t match your prognostication abilities. Since we are going to put this thread in an time capsule and resurrect it at a future date, please advise;
- What significant players will sustain critical injuries during the year?
- What significant players will get traded? To what teams? Dates?
- What significant players will under-perform? Over-perfrom?
- What teams will under-perform? Over-perform?
- Who will be rookie of the year in the AL?
- Who will be manager of the year in the AL?
- What will be the playoff match-ups?
- Who will win the world series?
- Who will get the winning hit in the All-star game? Who will be the winning pitcher?
Year in, year out, there are events that no one expects or anticipates. Remember who was supposed to be our prime competition last year? How did that pan out?
I find it itintersting that Matsui gets traded to Boston and becomes a pitcher...
or maybe that’s Kaz…. but anyway… never woulda thought…
Now stuck in Colorado Springs
by stuck in Romania on Dec 15, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
I kinda figured he was having trouble with Matsuzaka...
…so Matsui…Matsuzaka…they both start with Matsu, right?
yeah, same thing...
So which one did we get then?
Now stuck in Colorado Springs
by stuck in Romania on Dec 15, 2009 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
Matsu-whichever.
The guy that needs cosmetic surgery more than Lackey (especially if he’s going to be on billboards).
Ahhh yes, Hideki!!!
Now stuck in Colorado Springs
by stuck in Romania on Dec 15, 2009 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
Granderson, Burnett, Sabathia = eskimos impervious to cold weather?
They’re probably used to playing in those types of temps for 2 months max in a season.. while the angel players get to taste it by visiting east coast and midwest parks by years end and beginning of the season.
Temp. advantage is the biggest crock of shit in all of sports.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
reply fail.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Dec 15, 2009 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
right, kind of like how the Angels have dominated in cold weather
especially to the Yankees in Game 1, 2 and 6…and didnt Sabthia ALREADY play for the Yanks last year?? r u a moron
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
Logic FAIL
On what evidence can you rationally base a conclusion that the weather caused the Angels to lose the ALCS?
its not the only reason...which is ur logical fail i never said that
but based on the QUOTES from this past season in which the Angels players like Hunter were happy to get out of the cold and back home, and that Aybar couldnt catch a ball or handle it when he had cold hands and he and Iztruis were wearing full on face to toes warmers…its a factor.
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
Grow Up
It was the exact same temperature for all players. You think the Yankees liked playing in the cold? You pick Hunter, of all people a guy who spent his entire career before 2008 playing in the AL Central, as your “evidence?” Where did it say that even one single error committed by the Angels was due to cold weather.
Look, I’m sorry to pick on you if you’re only 5 years old, but your logic and reasoning ability are at about that leve.
quotes?
Let’s see ’em.
In case you already forgot what you said, I’ll quote: “their offense will again struggle in a cold environment.”
How did the cold weather cause the Angels’ offense to struggle?
if a team is more acustomed to playing in cold weather
THAN OBVIOUSLY ITS TO THEIR ADVANTAGE how is that a dumb idea?? I NEVER SAID that its the only problem, its something going against them..dont come at me with logic if your logic is wrong too..you saying that there is no effect is a blanket statement which is not the kind of argument i made.
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:18 PM PST up reply actions
Read
what you wrote, and explain how the weather affected the Angels offense. You state that it’s “obvious;” if it’s so obvious, there would be facts – evidence – aplenty to support your conclusion. The conclusion itself is not evidence.
Quotes to show how weather affects the game
#1
“Aybar would later say that the elements had no effect on that play, or his play overall, yet a more telling response came when first asked how cold he felt Friday night. Aybar said, "Very cold … not like the Dominican (Republic)."
#2
“Pitched in Cleveland,” Sabathia said. "Used to cold weather. It was about as cold as it gets," he said. "It was pretty nasty today."
#3
Because of the cold conditions, the traditional foul line introductions were scrapped. It was 45 degrees at gametime, and a 17 mph wind made it feel worse.
"The wind was playing havoc on a few balls out there," Damon said.
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
nice read here too
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/temperature-effects/
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Non responsive
How did the cold weather negatively affect the Angels’ offense, and only the Angels’ offense, which was your premise?
that was not my premise moron
I said that the Angels will struggle in cold weather…NOT ONLY THE ANGELS
and what i said was that the teams that are more accustomed to playing in it have some advantages in terms of how to respond..its in all sports look at football its even more pronounced there!!!
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
Your words
Even if the Angels do with the division [t]heir offense will again struggle in a cold environment."
Your premise is that cold affects the Angels offense differently than another team’s. You have yet to provide a single evidentiary fact in support of your absurd conclusion.
I NEVER SAID THAT YOU IDIOT MORON
LET ME GUESS YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO STUDIED FOR THE LSAT BUT BLEW IT RIGHT????
Dont argue with me about this if you are making shit up
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
well i feel sorry for your clients
because you just made an incorrect assumption based on what i told you..!! now im laughing at how big of an idiot you are..
again
“Once again the Angels offense will struggle in the cold weather”
how does that equal this statement
“Only the Angels offense will struggle in the cold weather?”
which is a HUGE difference from what i said which was
“The Angels have a disadvantage becuase they are not as accustomed to playing in cold weather as other teams so its hard for them to adjust to it immediately”
and i used the track record of NYY and Bos..whose talking about FLORIDA??? idiot
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
they are the ones attacking me for their incorreect logic i was talking about the Angels
just as all of you do
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
I read your original post. I think we had problems with the weather THIS year.
I don’t think that has been the case every year, so I don’t agree with your premise.
The reason I told you to buzz off is your comments about his profession, which added nothing to the discussion and just made you sound like a petulant child.
Plus your grammar, lack of punctuation and spelling skills are making my head hurt. Minnesota has two n’s, incorrect has one “e”. If you read your posts aloud and you take a breath in the middle of a sentence, put a comma or something there for Cod’s sake; it will be a basic improvement that will make reading your posts a lot more pleasant.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
by opiejeanne on Dec 15, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Try reading again
what you wrote. You wrote that the Angels offense (as opposed to any other offense) would struggle in cold weather. If your point was all offenses, why mention only the Angels? The weather is the same for both teams.
And then I asked for evidence to support your theory that the weather actually did affect the Angels’ offense. You didn’t respond to that.
What is there for the offense to “adjust” to ?
Florida = warm weather team that won in NY. Angels = warm weather team that won in NY in 2002 and 2005, and in Boston in 2009.
I wrote
Their offense will again struggle in a cold environment such as Minesota, Chicago or Detroit or New York/Boston
Angels → few home games in cold weather
Minesota, Chicago, Detroit, Boston, New York all experience colder temps in April – Oct/Nov than LOS ANGELES on average. Many games in cold weather
Angels recent struggles of offense in cold weather especially in postseason.(night cold weather games)
So i said the Angels offense which already struggles in the postseason, will face an even greater disadvantage with no big bats in the line up in those cold weather environments if they do not have players who are good in thems
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
Thus
You’ve made the following assertions: the Angels’ offense struggles more in cold weather than that of other teams; the Angels’ offense struggled in the 2009 postseason in NY (but curiously not in Boston) because of the cold; and by implication, other teams from warmer weather cities also struggle in the cold.
Was it really that warm when the Florida Marlins won in NY in 2003? Or when the Angels beat the Yankees in the ALDS in 2002 and 2005?
YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS
how does saying that the Angels once again will struggle in cold weather equate to ONLY THE ANGELS WILL STRUGGLE IN COLD WEATHER
how did 2+2 = 3??
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
Because
otherwise it’s a meaningless and irrelevant statement. I like chocolate. So what?
If your point is that, as a general rule, ALL offenses struggle in cold weather, why single out the Angels?
which is a different argument than what you started
proving you have been a moron thanks
and i threw that out there because it is not an advtange to us..whereas maybe someone like a Jason Bay who has had success hitting in boston and pitsburgh could have helped us…we dont have anything in our favor going into the postseason
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
and unless you have a dominating PITCHER on your team
than you have nothing to counteract a struggling offense in cold weather whereas the Yankees had CC Sabathia who had a experience in cold weather as i showed you by your statements..
and the Red Sox have Josh Beckett who had success in cold weather both as a Red Sox and as a damn Florida Marlin as you brought up
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
If that's
your theory, then the signing of Hideki Matsui (hero of a WS played exclusively in cold weather cities) cured all of the problems on offense.
MAYBE, i can give you that idea
but one or two batters out of 9 against the Yankee players who are now accustomed to it such as Tex…or the Sox who are always dangerous is a challenge
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
by DM_RMBRS '95 on Dec 15, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
Oh I heard Atlanta sure gets COLD in the summer, too!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
And played in Atlanta
And went to college at Georgia Tech.
This whole “cold weather” concept is opening vast new frontiers in stupidity.
Approximately 50% of most teams is comprised of players from the DR or from Central or South America (Venezuela, Columbia, etc). Every single one of those players—regardless of whether he is the home or away team—is playing in an environment which would be foreign to him when there is snow and extreme cold.
The only Twins who would be at home in the April open-air games in the new stadium figure to be hometown boy Mauer and Canadian Morneau. Highly doubtful that Alexi Casilla will have an advantage as a “local” player.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 15, 2009 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
These quotes don't show whether and how, statistically/results speaking, the cold weather affected the Angels' or Yankees' respective performances or not.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
When the Yankees play in Anaheim
their blood thins out because of the warm weather, thus giving the Angels the advantage.
Oh, I see.
Yeah. Also missed that whole subsequent argument above before I posted this!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
I confess I didn't follow it
but you do realize I’m joking, right? You know, the 1974 or so 55-24 USC win over Notre Dame? Ara Parseghian blaming the epic second half fade on his team’s having been used to cold weather, so their blood thinned out in the warm air of the Coliseum?
Ahh, so THAT's the proper usage of "panty-waist".
I always thought it was “panty-waste”.
Never you mind. Don’t wanna have that discussion…
"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Hahaha!
You know we could have that discussion. I was a costumer for quite a few years.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
Who CARES!!!!
Yep, its cold sometimes in New York, Boston, Detroit, etc… We get it!!!
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 15, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
some fans search far and wide for explanations
By invoking the Weather Card, it gives some fans a unique sense of control over a situation controlled by far more meaningful factors, like talent.
and like Granderson hasnt been playing in DETROIT
The 2000s have been great but I grew up on the 90s teams!
ITS OK BRO
we got matsui, whos name translates (in his native language) to THE COLD ONE WHO HITS FROZEN SNOWBALLS.
we got this shit locked down now.
Or do you think he will defrost when he comes to anaheim?
Do you think we can somehow get Melky Cabrera (one who comes from a long lineage of a nordic icemen, most noted for their ability to adapt to sub arctic weather)
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Dec 15, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
i think we'll be fine.
I don’t have any numbers to back it or research from previous years and the like. I think Sosh will continue to show why he’s the best manager in baseball. It WILL be a tighter race than the past couple years, but we’ll pull it out. I hope I’m wrong, but despite the marketing dollars and so forth of Matsui, I’m just not biting quite yet. As others have stated its no big surprise that we missed out on the guys that have left/signed. I hope Big John likes shoveling snow in April….um..er…his butler rather.
Nick Adenhart 1986-2009
by autry's cowboys on Dec 15, 2009 4:12 PM PST via mobile reply actions
A couple of years back, someone had the sig
“We’ll be fine”
Who was that? Because I think we need more of that sentiment.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Since the Halladays, Peavys, Lees, and Hardens have slipped by this season
I will be optimistic about the eight draft picks we will get so that maybe in the future we will have some pieces other teams will be willing to trade for an ace or a super bat. As far as I am concerned the dust has settled and we will play with who we have. I think Soth will gather this team together, provide an entertaining season of baseball, and they will be as competitive as possible.
The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com
Sounds about right.
And sounds good!
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
You may be right...
…but I’d hope we somehow make a deal for a solid SP. There no cushion for injuries, and I wasn’t really sold on either O’Sullivan, Ortega, Bell, or anyone else coming up from the minors. Each one appeared to need more experience, or they just aren’t MLB caliber pitchers.
I am a picture of optimism
Let’s really take a close look at what we lost, what we have, and what is still available on the market.
1. What we lost….
John Lackey – an above average starter who pitches well in big games, but is mediocre as an ace. Lackey has been breaking down over the last few years and was not worth the money the RedSux paid him. Everyone keeps telling me we can’t beat the Redsux now, but that’s ridiculous. We swept them last year and we can beat them again… trust me.
Chone Figgins – enjoyed his best year as an Angel, but it’s time to give Brandon Wood a shot. If he doesn’t pan out we have Izzy to fill the void, I will miss Figgy, but it’s not the end of the world.
2. What we have…
We still have a strong rotation of Weaver, Kazmir, Saunders and Santana. We also have some very strong, young arms. I would be confident going into the season with these four plus Palmer.
We still have a sound offense, especially with the addition of Matsui who can still really hit. GUYS… we have Abreu, Hunter, Morales, Matsui, Naps, Kendrick, Rivera… CHEER THE F UP! We will be middle of the pack in runs scored and top 5 in pitching. CHILL
3. What’s still out there…
We are NOT out of the running for Jason Bay. If we sign Bay that will spell the end for Rivera who wll be packaged in a deal for Lowe to the Braves. I also heard we are considering Atkins as a replacement for Quinlan.
Chone Figgins and Cliff Lee absolutely strengthens the Mariners, but they need more than that to top our Halos.
I am excited about 2010. We will get in the playoffs! We still have a shot at a World Series title. Go Angels….
Light up the Freakin Halo!
It might not be Lowe we're after
The giants have expressed intereset in Rivera.
We either end the offseason pretty much as is or……
We flip Rivera to the giants for Cain and then sign Bay.
by lightupthehalo29 on Dec 15, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
I'm surprisingly untroubled by this
save for the fact that the Angels’ starting pitching just got a lot worse.
The Red Sox have some serious holes in their offense. Big Papi ain’t so big, they’re almost certain to lose Jason Bay. The Yankees’ up-the-middle defensively and offensively can’t last foreve. I know, waiting for Posada to collapse has been going on for years, but does anybody think Jeter is going to be this good defensively indefinitely, or that they can get another CF with good offense and defense at the same time, Granderson included?
The M’s got appreciably better pitching-wise, but they still need an offense. The A’s had a nice second half, but can they build on it?
I’m still re-upping my season tickets.
Witty .sig goes here.
I'm with ya'. This thing aint over.
“Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor???”
OK, I'm finally over losing Tex. Thanks Kendry.
by 10 27 02 on Dec 15, 2009 6:52 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'm with you, Matt
I am quite optimistic about the future of this franchise. it’s a bit disappointing to realize that the franchise is not yet quite profitable enough to compete on an equal level with the Eastern powerhouses for players, but Moreno & Co. seem to be following a long-term plan to get that done. I would much rather see the Angels be perennial contenders then to see them follow the boom and bust cycle of most teams, for it is only by being perennial contenders that the Angels can build a true dynasty.
Having said this, the front office still has a lot to learn about public relations. For a man who made his fortune in advertising, Arte seems pretty tin-eared in some respects. For one thing, irrespective of the wisdom of the steps they have taken this offseason, they set themselves up for the appearance of failure by declaring goals to which they were not fully committed. It makes them look inept, insincere, or perhaps both.
For another thing, KLAA is as a whole an embarrassment to the organization. Jeff Biggs is the only good thing the station has going for it, and even at that his show has far too many call[in segments. The Sports Lodge desperately needs major reworking, starting with a decent producer. Roger Lodge has talent, but the show has been completely rudderless since Dave Smith was let go, and they have made no attempt to develop new segments. I mean, come on—how many “special editions” of One on One can they have before we get something new? Without two hosts, the segment is basically pointless. Lodge’s manic energy needs to be reined in severely, a function that the dour Smith performed quite nicely. Frankly, the dismissal of Smith seems to have signaled an abandonment of the KLAA project, and if that is the case, the franchise would be better served by dumping the station and signing on with KLAC.
Finally, while I was delighted to have Rex removed from game-calling duties, it was a bonehead move to dismiss him from the broadcast team entirely. The franchise had no more effective nor charismatic ambassador. As annoying as I found him during the games, when the team was not doing well he would sit in on Angel Talk and minister to the fans’ pain in a remarkably effective way. They should have kept him for the pre- and post-game, and had him roaming the stands during the game.
Now, the most important thing is the team on the field, and I am confident that it will continue to excel. Nevertheless, for the franchise to build the kind of image it seeks with the general public, a necessary precondition to maximize profitability, it needs to present a more uniformly professional and polished image.
by rspencer on Dec 15, 2009 7:02 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Excellent post.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Dec 15, 2009 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
We have a lot going for us-
Look, we still have one of the best infields in the game, great outfield depth, four good starters, Shields coming back, and a committed-to-excellence owner. I’d say we have a lot going for this team. Seattle is improving, Texas is treading water, and Oakland is still Oakland. We have a serious shot, again, at the playoffs. We fly flags.
IN
Too much money and too many years for a player that is too old is never good.
When the right player is there, spend. And if not, then wait.
And I am quite excited about all the picks.
Another fine post from our best poster.
I could not contain my anger enough to gather my thoughts to rebut any of these grown adults whining about loyalty and childhood dreams being crushed and blah blah blah.
Grow up. You should have realized a long time ago that this was a business like any other. And the business world consists of people looking out for their own interests, just like you would if given the opportunity at your job. If offered a promotion or a raise, you don’t turn it down because you “make enough money” or because your co-workers and customers got used to seeing your happy ass all the time.
You spoiled brats shouldn’t scoff at the owner of this franchise. You should praise him. We spend all this time criticizing other organizations for handing out bloated contracts to players who are not worthy of those contracts, and then turn around and demand the same stupidity from this one. Someone has to draw a line in the sand. This team fell into the prominence of this decade by relying on the farm, and although we have some questionable contracts at the moment, that is no excuse to add to them.
Bottom line: this is a CLASS organization run by smart people with the best interests of the franchise, AND baseball in general, in mind. They will find a way to win.
Like I say every year: just show me the roster at the end of March. Whatever names are on it are the ones I will be rooting for all year.
Apologies in advance.
by Red114 on Dec 15, 2009 9:58 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
We Will Win With What We've Got
Not having read every post above, I am glad we did not chase Lackey and Figgy with the free agent spenders. And I am glad not to have given up our prospects for Halladay. This FA hysteria has got to be handled with adult perspective. The Angels are a premiere organization that will win because all the pieces are working in harmony: Ownership, management, talent, player development, etc. We will give Wood his shot, and then, if it doesn’t work out, we’ll move on. We landed Kazimir last summer. Good you talent is developing. That’s the Angel Way, not all this FA nonsense. Arte is not afraid to spend if it’s really in our best interest. If not, let the suckers sign those contracts and we’ll be the sounder for it. Thanks for the great post, Matt!
No witty sig here.
by SonomaCoHalofan on Dec 15, 2009 10:15 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Worst move this offseason
was moving Mota and Guby to every day duty. Otherwise, steady as she goes.
by LittleCupcakes on Dec 15, 2009 11:07 PM PST reply actions
Are then any FA's that want to live on the west coast?
as mentioned I’m drinking the juice again but want to hear some hope. It is sad to hear that every one wants to play in the East. Are there any FA’s that would like to play on the west?
seriously ppl
these have been the longest 24 hours of my life just seeyin ya talk about that we are fine as a team when i really do know that we are not having a chance with this the not even on paper when the only way we got to the ALCS WAS B-CUZ THE RED SOX DIDNT HAVE NO OFFENSE!!!!!!!!! and yes we got to the playooffs that was b-cuz where are in the worst division
We are in the worst division...
Really? How did this division fare against the other divisions? Look it up?
Your listening to the East Coast media a little too much
R.I.P. King Ad-Rock #34
soooo
i just probably wil make my statement right now—— just before a die of haloness please lets cheer for a trade that brings us a true ace we are lackeling one RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aint no way we win with what we got, or get this next year (off season) !
Book Mark It (hate me) I will not drink yer damn cool aid…even if it was Grape/miracle whip.
My prediction in 2010 is we will not win. So don’t hate me when I say we took the year off…I’m not mad ! AND I’m not mad @ Lackey !
It's Always Somethin'
me neither dudeeee totally
im not mad at lackey or figgins neither to vlad for givind me my best halo moments is ARTE AND THE NEW FRONT OFFICE whos responsable, they seen just to cheap when the offseason arrives and they the FO just wait and wait till the offseason finish and they can just and just again say WE TRIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!
Lol! i mean really dude
what are your thoughts on this??? then they always have us or make us conform to the s**t!!!!!!!
by halo4lifeinny on Dec 16, 2009 1:59 AM PST up reply actions
my boxers just got miniature
thats a record setting deal right therrr i mean signing pujols is really our savior in paper and in field we are right now like a 70 if most wins outta 162 games
by halo4lifeinny on Dec 16, 2009 2:14 AM PST up reply actions
we need....
A) to make a move now cuz it looks like everybody can make a good trade except the angels!!!!!!!!!!!!! arent we supposed to have a good farm even better then seattles??
B) to realize we need our vlady i mean who has been more efective than him then they wanna take the credits!!!!!!!!!! that makes me pissed!!!!!!!!!!! sooo pissed!!!!!!!!! we have only made it to the playoffS most of the years cuz vlady have step up for the whole offense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! theeeeeeeee wholeeeeee year I MEAN WHO ELSEEEE!!!!!!!!! FIGGINS????? kmo??? WEAVER I MEEN WHOOO??? NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by halo4lifeinny on Dec 16, 2009 2:09 AM PST up reply actions
At this point, Vlad would have to be a pinch-hitter and part-time RF
I’d be ok with that for a few mil, but I don’t think he would.
Now that Matsui is our DH, I doubt it will happen.
"Well make more fuckin' money. This is America. You don't make money, then you're a fuckin' douchebag." - Mr French "The Departed"
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter
Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 16, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
me
im starting to think it is a better idea now :) i mean lets face it this dude was healthy all season when vlad wasnt plus guy has like a 620. slugging pct. vs lefties and was WS MVP he could hit a good 20-30 in a good-average campaing like nothin,, vlad is not consistent no more
by halo4lifeinny on Dec 16, 2009 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
LMAO UTI
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on Dec 16, 2009 6:37 AM PST up reply actions
As we often make reference to the 2002 WS, remember.....
With the departure of Figgy and Lackey, there is no one left except Shields who played on the Team. Sad, but a true reflection of the business aspect of the game.
I know there are other teams who have recycled their entire rosters in less than 8 years, but this hits home.
by SocalAngelFaninOC on Dec 16, 2009 8:57 AM PST reply actions
My gosh...
did you also realize that nobody from the 1986 team is still on the roster? Time happens, man.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Dec 17, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
I'm optimistic...
I think we’re all too worried about this. The contract for Lackey made no sense. I’m now done with him. He clearly didn’t want to come back and so I don’t want him. He’s a traitor and I hope the Red Sox don’t make another playoff while he’s on the team.
I think we have a lot of great young players and fantastic coaching. I still expect to win the west, but I’ve done that for the last 30 years. LOL
The playoffs are a crap shoot, so there is no personnel change that will guarantee us a world series. If we get in the playoffs, we have the same chance as everyone else. So let’s get in again and see what we can do!
wonder if Lackey will give the real reason for leaving
aside from the $ of course. will he unload on Scioscia in the media now? i hope for his rep he doesn’t but he had many more “this is mine sosh” moments….should be an interesting presser in boston.
I hope someone can post a video of the 1st time Lackey says to Francona...
…“This is mine”. Can’t wait to see Francona’s reaction.
I don't see lackey unloading on sosh...
I do see him saying something stupid about the anaheim fans or angels as an organization, like playing where fans care about baseball… something to that effect.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Dec 16, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
great point
i think he’ll definitely be making comparisons and then say something stupid that’ll piss Angel fans off even more.
Maybe.
But I have a pet theory that he’ll eventually need to pitch from under a beach umbrella at Fenway. If he points fingers at teammates there like he sometimes did here he’s liable to invoke a rain of spit-wads from the bleachers.
Seriously, I don’t wish him ill. Just wonder how some of his antics will play in Boston where he gets no home-grown credits.
"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
I can count 5 and 85 reasons for him really leaving.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Dec 17, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
Seems most everyone misses the point...
The whole freakin idea of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim..was that Arte was gonna take us into the ‘big market’ tier so we can compete with the Yanks and the BoSox. Now do we have a better team still than Seattle and Texas…sure…will we still most likely win the west…probably..but Texas and Seattle ain’t done yet either. But what is unarguably true…is that top tier talent…Tex, Lee, Halladay, Holliday, Bay, Wagner, Sabathia, Victor Martinez…and mid-tier talent like Burnett, Lackey, Figgins, Damon, Granderson, jackson, Harden…and many many others…are not on our radar. And the ‘excuse’ is always the same…we don’t want to overpay……well….are we the ONLY team that smart. Seems The Yanks and the Phils and The Red Sox disagree with us…and which organizations are playing in the WS every year.
Arte is running a terrific operation…and the economic sense of investing in young, inexpensive developing players is unarguable. However, if you really are a big market team whose goal is to beat those other, ‘dumber’ teams once in a while….you have to overpay once in a while to get ‘that’ guy. Buying Yankees rejects at discount prices will not get us past them…only leave us further behind.
I don't disagree with much in your post.
Except for the inference that becoming a big market organization should be instantaneous, requiring nothing more that simple intent. and stacks ’o cash.
It is a process. A difficult one. Get it wrong and you’re the freaking Royals. Or, maybe more to the point in LA, the Clippers (with apologies to Clipper fans. All three of you).
A good way for the Angels to get it wrong right now would be to load up on big, long-term contracts. They might (and no more than “might”) get you a WS in the short term, though they’d more likely turn you into the Padres in the long term.
If the Angels are going to be a “big market team”, I’d rather it were for the long term.
"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Some good points
But you can’t really be a big market team until you have big market revenue. The Angels aren’t there yet. And as far as “overpaying to get ‘that’ guy”, I agree, but that’s not exactly the issue here. The problem, really, is that Lackey et al. want to be overpaid for too long a time. It’s one thing to have a lot of money tied up in a productive player, but quite another to have it tied up in a guy on the DL or the bench. GMJ, for example. The Angels aren’t yet big-market enough to be able to carry large amounts of dead weight on the payroll.
The point I was trying to make..
Perhaps in-eloquently…is that Arte has sold us a bill of goods. Angel fans, The OC and the city of Anaheim now have to take a second seat to LA..on the implied promise we’d have more revenue to compete. I still hate the LA part of our name..but if it means we get to keep Lackey, Figgy, Ollie, Tex…or at least gets us Sabathia.Lee…somebody…anybody….I can live with it.
This organization, top to bottom is likely the best in sports..no doubt. But aren’t we getting tired of annual season seat increases, merchandise pricing increases, food prices up….ticket revenue is up, TV radio radio is up..or should be if we buy the corporate LAA line…and what are we getting for it…Lackey’s too old…Figgy’s too old…Halladays too expensive…our farm system is too good….nothing but excuses as to why we seem to never get our man…or even keep ’em.
Now, with our management we will always be in the hunt….just like the Rams were for soooooooo many years. If that’s the kind of franchise we wanna be…great…but the Rams never won it all either. Being the 3rd or 4th best team and hoping to catch lucky in the playoffs is not what we were buying into when Arte came along.
Except Halladay going to Philly wasn't the FO's doing
Reagins was even talking about giving up Aybar, who was previously thought to be untouchable. It’s just that Philly’s offer filled more of Toronto’s needs.
Oh, for God's sake...
All this bitching and moaning about Moreno is just too ridiculous to stomach.
Does anyone here remember the days of Disney’s ownership? Anyone? Anyone at all?
Disney was such a great steward of the franchise that, when it was unable to find a buyer for the team at the price the company had set for it, it held discussions with MLB about possibly contracting the team with the Twins or Athletics. In the proposal, at least one of those teams would fold for good, and Disney didn’t really care if the Angels were left standing or not, since it would be paid for the franchise by the other owners.
THAT is who we had before Arte Moreno. We had an ownership which, after a hail mary attempt at greatness by signing Mo Vaughn failed, set about to trade away the entire team (until cooler heads in bigger offices intervened). THIS was the group in charge of the team I loved for close to 40 years by that point.
So no more tears about how “cheap” Arte is because he won’t spend HIS money YOUR way. He is building a franchise which won’t be subject to mood swings and be up and then down over the years. He’s working to build a franchise which provides top-level baseball for the fans EVERY year. OF COURSE he wants to win a World Series—show me the owner who doesn’t have that dream (besides Michael Eisner)—but he has been around the game long enough to know teams which go for broke DO go broke, in the sense that when that gamble on talent doesn’t pan out, it cripples the development of the team overall for years. Look at the Tigers, which spent a small fortune to lock up Cabrera and Willis, and everyone practically handed them the World Series trophy before the season began—except it didn’t work out that way, and now the team needs to be partially dismantled because the expenditures haven’t provided the expected results.
Guess what happens when a team busts its budget on payroll in an attempt to win NOW? That money has to come from other places within the organization, and usually that means fewer scouts and less money available for signing bonuses. In the course of trying to win it all today, the cost is taken from the teams of tomorrow. If you really think Moreno should be spending whatever Lackey demands, or signing a stiff-in-the-making in Jason Bay to a guaranteed 5 year deal costing $90M or so, then understand it will mean that the team won’t be signing as many of its draft picks (compare that to this past draft, where the team had many picks in the high rounds and signed all but one). It means the team might be making less intelligent picks, because of a lack of field intelligence from a diminished pool of scouts. It means the Trouts and the Bourjos and the Recklings we so look forward to will be in short supply.
Arte’s Angels won’t be a team like the Tigers, won’t be constantly retooling itself because the last plan took the franchise right into the crapper. His plan is to provide the fans with a franchise which plays with the best teams in baseball. If that doesn’t guarantee a World Series trophy every year, then some of you will have to learn to deal with the disappointment and move on. But be honest enough to admit we have seen truly awful ownership of this franchise, and Arte Moreno is the diametrical opposite of that style of ownership.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 16, 2009 10:09 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm sympathetic to your point, statlr
but George is essentially right. It takes a lot of time and money to build a true dynasty, and it only works if it is profitable on its own. The Angels are making money now, but not yet the kind of money that will allow them to match the Yankees dollar-for-dollar in contracts. It takes time to build that sort of profitability.
I understand your feelings, and frankly in moments of despair I share them. But Arte is probably the best thing that has ever happened to this franchise. I don’t know of a better owner in all of sportsdom.
NOBODY makes money like the Yankees
The revenue stream they have from YES is unbelievable. The Red Sox are close, given their part-ownership of NESN.
The Angels have nothing to match that, KLAA may, one day, provide some decent income to the team, but for now it can’t possibly be doing anything but making a small profit.
Unless and until MLB changes its concept of revenue sharing to include income received from ancillary businesses like sports cable channels, the Yankees will continue to have a tremendous financial advantage over other teams in baseball. They still have to sign the right players and win games on the field, but they can afford a bad contract or two and not have repercussions. A team like the Angels or Mariners, both of which do very well financially compared to about 25 other teams, might be able to work around one (like GMJ) but two or more really screws things up (like Sexson and Silva). This additional revenue allows the Yankees (and to a slightly lesser extent, the Red Sox) to make financial deals with near impunity.
Speaking of sports broadcasting, I forgot one of the great legacies of Disney’s ownership: The TV rights. When Disney owned the team, it also owned KCAL 9, and had the games on that station. Since it owned both, it elected to have KCAL make all the money, and so the rights to the Angel games were sold for amounts less than what the Royals and Brewers were making in their markets.
After that deal was put into place, Disney merged with Capital Cities and gained KABC 7. Federal laws prohibited two stations owned in the same market (rules since relaxed), and Disney sold KCAL. At this point, the team wasn’t making TV money and Disney wasn’t making through the other pocket (since it no longer owned KCAL) but it didn’t care, since it had been desperately trying to sell the franchise and cash out.
When Arte bought the Angels, he inherited a TV contract which brought the team almost no significant revenue. While some folks don’t like KCOP (or their cable system won’t carry it), it is worth noting that through his negotiations with Fox (which owns FSW and KCOP), he was able to greatly increase the team’s TV rights revenue, as well as get every game televised, either through local cable, local TV, national cable (ESPN, TBS) or national TV (Fox). It took him a few years for the Disney deal to end and to negotiate with Fox; in the meantime, he deficit-financed the signings of Guerrero, Colon, Escobar and Guillen out of pocket until team revenues matched team payroll.
THAT is a good owner.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 17, 2009 3:24 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
This ^^^^^
Great explanation.
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
by johnnyangel101 on Dec 17, 2009 8:28 AM PST up reply actions
Another great post
I wish it weren’t necessary to constantly defend Arte, but … it is. Great job!
I am IN with ya Matt
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
At the end of the day...
Lackey and Figgy no longer have The Rally Monkey on their side. Figgy is never going to hear the Rally Monkey roar when he comes to bat. Lackey will now have to deal with the Rally Monkey roar as he does his 7th inning meltdown in Anaheim.
I can totally assure everyone that this counts for something. Just recall Hunter’s comments after he signed on.
The Rally Monkey is our creation, and we will no longer share with those guys. I take a good deal of satisfaction out of knowing that.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
The Rally Monkey is a capuchin monkey named Katie, same as my youngest child, which seems very appropriate.
THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!
I'm not sure if that's a compliment to the monkey,
an insult to your daughter, vice-versa, neither, both, or some other twisted combination.
Besides, I hear the monkey’s nickname is “Wild Thing”…not that that means anything…

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