Scioscia named by Selig to panel to fix playoff issues

by Commander_Nate on Dec 15, 2009 5:44 PM PST

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/15/selig.panel.ap/index.html

So, Selig actually does believe there is a problem with the way the post-season is now run at the behest of the TV networks. He has selected Mike, La Russa, Leyland, Torre, and a number of other non-players from the baseball world to analyze the situation and recommend changes to possibly the umpiring and scheduling for the playoffs.

No players or umpires are included in this panel.

I for one think this is great. The Umpires Union has far too much power in the league, especially on this topic. I have the utmost respect for the umps and the difficulty of their jobs, but they have shown time and again that they would rather maintain their god-like hold on the game rather than admit their occasional and understandable fallability like the rest of us. Every season and post-season gets worse. This year we saw Jeter called out on a non-force play because "the ball beat him" and a Met (Reyes I think) called out when a tag missed him by two feet and the ump had a bad angle. That was during the regular season. Then there are the glaring examples from the post-season; the Mauer double called foul, and of course the infamous calls from ALCS Game 4 where Swisher's tag-up was taken away and "The Worst Call of All Time" where Posada and Cano were both out by 10 miles yet Cano was called safe.

Then of course there's the schedule, which inadvertently shielded the Yankees one weakness, starting pitching depth, from being exposed at all. Not to mention the absurdity of going from a 162 game, almost day-to-day schedule, to one where a 5 game series can be spread out over a 7-8 days. This is an absurd concession in the interest of ratings that hurts the game at it's most important time.

What I hope they recommend:

1) Tighten the schedule: 1 Travel day per series after the first two games. 1-2 days off at most between LDS, LCS, and WS.

2) Expand replay during the playoffs via the use of a replay official at the park. Leave balls and strikes alone as well as bang-bang plays like typically happen at 1st base. Have him overrule calls where it's obvious that the umpire just totally missed something, like Mauer's double, Swisher's tag-up, or Napoli's solo DP. A single manager's challenge per game may not be a bad idea either.

These are fairly simple and logical solutions that will strengthen and balance the game, returning it to the more proper form of years past.

I for one am sick of the playoffs being undermined in the interests of stroking umpires' egos and serving Rupert Murdoch's bank account and media agenda.

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

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I saw this on the MLB Network today

I hope something major gets done.

by ryanfea on Dec 15, 2009 6:40 PM PST reply actions

I doubt any of those on that panel will go for replay

They all seem pretty “old school” when it comes to technology. I think the schedule will get tightened up for sure though. Its ridiculous to be playing into november.
I wonder if they could have a crew that reviews plays as they happen and maybe only gets involved if the manager challenges? Like rather than have the manager charge the field and argue for 5 minutes he can run out, the umps make the call and they get the play upheld or overturned.

What does everyone think about going to an automated balls a strikes system? They have the equipment in place already, how do you feel about removing the human element?

by Balls and Strikes on Dec 15, 2009 7:23 PM PST reply actions

I want the human element removed

http://inplaynoouts.blogspot.com/ - A blog about teams I like, written by me.
#34

by Carl Johnson on Dec 15, 2009 8:06 PM PST up reply actions

humans suck

Go technology!

by ryanfea on Dec 16, 2009 9:35 AM PST up reply actions

To quote Bender...

“Wanna kill all humans?”

Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch

by red floyd on Dec 16, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions

It's a pretty big panel

Not all old baseball managers.

I’m more concerned about the schedule to be honest but I think replay is gonna get some serious backing here. If even one of these 4 managers backs it after it being brought up by somebody else it will gain some serious clout.

"Well make more fuckin' money. This is America. You don't make money, then you're a fuckin' douchebag." - Mr French "The Departed"

"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter

Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function

by Commander_Nate on Dec 15, 2009 10:47 PM PST up reply actions

No way,

Human error has always been a part of sports, and I believe it should stay that way. And if by “they have the equipment in place already” you mean “K-Zone” or Fox Pitch Tracker or, then HELLZ NO. those are preposterous.

"Precious in the sight of the Lord, is the death of His Saints." - Psalm 116:15 Rest In Peace, Nick.

by angels4adam on Dec 22, 2009 7:13 AM PST up reply actions

Hooray!

Let’s go Mike! Let’s go Tony! Let’s go Jim! Let’s go Joe!

RIP Nick Adenhart.

"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5

by Clutch on Dec 15, 2009 7:46 PM PST reply actions

Based on Soth's (and baseball men in general) comments during the playoffs

Don’t expect any movement on replay, and a lot of excuses about “disrupting the flow of the game.” The schedule will probably be tweaked, especially considering the new stadium opening in Minny and the likelihood of snow late in the postseason if the Twins make it in this year. Nobody needs to see that.

Rally Monkey, Rally Rat...only ten more Halo Rally animals to complete the Chinese Zodiac.

by BigKahunaMan on Dec 15, 2009 7:53 PM PST reply actions

What were they thinking in Minnesota, building a new stadium without a roof. Lordy.

THIS… IS… ANAHEIM!!

by opiejeanne on Dec 15, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions

Plus, it's next to a landfill or sewage treatment plant or something similarly fragrant

Terry Smith mentioned that he visited the site during the season, and odor was definitely a problem.

by rspencer on Dec 15, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions

I have a small idea...

As well as a question… Why is it that the only pro sport that has no time limit is the one that wont take the time to look at the bad calls? I get the flow of the game, but the managers don’t really think about that when they go off on the ump and start getting thrown out of games. If they cared so much they would just turn around and go back to the dugout instead of arguing.

As for what I would like to see… As Balls and Strikes said

What does everyone think about going to an automated balls a strikes system? They have the equipment in place already, how do you feel about removing the human element?

There is equipment in place to show us at home the balls and strikes. How about MLB stops coddling their umps and starts to give them a rating of their balls and strikes. That way they can’t say that it was the same zone the whole game. If they stay consistant then all is well but when they tighten up at the end of the game is when MLB needs to step in and bring it to attention.

Nothing will change unless you hold these power hungry men responsible.

"F@&* it, lets pitch"
-Ervin Santana

by pendletonmike on Dec 15, 2009 9:59 PM PST reply actions

That equipment in place,

of which you speak, does not actually do what you think it does.

For starters, it does not actually track the ball through any strike zone. It stops before the front of the plate. This is probably a startling revelation to many, who will then turn around and presume that it is quibbling. It is not.

Second, it is not a robot. It is a mathematically created path through space as the result of a sample of information concerning the location of the ball and the spin of the ball while in flight, as compared to human estimations created out in the parking lot as to what the strike zone is supposed to be with each pitch.

So, just there, you do not have the information you think we have and you do not have the umpires removed from the analysis.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Dec 15, 2009 10:17 PM PST up reply actions

Agreed

Balls and Strikes should be left alone.

But I’m down for some kind of rating system. If it becomes obvious that an ump can’t hack it, he should go back to the minors.

Just like a player.

"Well make more fuckin' money. This is America. You don't make money, then you're a fuckin' douchebag." - Mr French "The Departed"

"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter

Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function

by Commander_Nate on Dec 15, 2009 10:45 PM PST up reply actions

IIRC, there used to be a rating system that depended on the old Questec technology.

Umps were left to call their game, but their calls were compared to the Questec data and when there was a large deviance, somebody from the MLB front office would review the results with that ump. But the union snuffed it out. And the union is the proponent for all umps getting a turn at the playoff pay days.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Dec 15, 2009 10:57 PM PST up reply actions

Never once did I say this should replace umpires.

I simply said they should use the data collected to give ratings. Then hold the umps accountable for nonconsistant strike zones. There is nothing you can do during the game. But you can change the “rotation method.” Simply put the umps that have a good strike zone behind the plate and the ones with not so good on the bases until they can figure it out. There is no way to fix human error but there are ways to make yourself better in anything that you do.

"F@&* it, lets pitch"
-Ervin Santana

by pendletonmike on Dec 15, 2009 11:12 PM PST up reply actions

You imply that the data you have available to you is worthy of defining a strike zone,

against which the plate ump can be measured for consistency. I am trying to point out to you that the technology in place does not, in actuality, define any strike zone. And I am also trying to point out to you that the umpire behind the plate can legitimately spend all day arguing that your data is little more than some other, hidden, person getting THEIR strike zone wrong when they implant it on your TV or computer screen.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Dec 16, 2009 12:06 AM PST up reply actions

Until there are sensors

in the ball and on the batter’s jersey and pants, we won’t have the data necessary to truly map balls and strikes.

The gameday and broadcast “pitch trackers” are all estimations.

I’d submit that human beings simply reviewing video tape could rank and rate the umps just as well as the current trajectory estimations that we employ with pitch trackers. The hurdle is the umpiring union’s stance on review of any sort.

by PitPerc on Dec 16, 2009 3:10 PM PST up reply actions

This is critical thinking on the correct track!

Two interesting tidbits:
1) The cameras that currently take the photos that are fed into a computer to determine ball flight take 60 images per second. A 90 mph fastball travels 26.4 inches in 1/60th of a second. Home plate is only about 15 inches deep, from the front of the plate to the back tip. So the current technology, as implemented, cannot even SEE the baseball over the plate. At best, it could possibly see the ball in one frame.

2) However, they stop tracking the ball BEFORE the plate on purpose: because the cameras and computer can be fooled by other things in motion and grab the wrong object to measure, invalidating that entire pitch.

And, technically, you are both right and wrong about the estimations comment. The system is capable of applying simple physics and know precisely how the ball moved through space. What is an estimation, is the cartoon graphic that is displayed on TV’s and computer screens to represent the flight path of the pitch. The graphic is not real, even though that animation generates very real reactions and opinions among fans about how the game is being called.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Dec 16, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions

But then wouldnt the system be uniform?

I mean, we might have some bad calls, but if everyone knows an inside slider at the shins is gonna get called, they can adjust. The BS part right now is the changes that happen when guys like a-roid come up to bat and suddenly the strike zone is the size of a catchers mitt. Or the enormous widening of the zone on an 3-0 pitch. I would just like to see a strike be from the knees to the bottom of the letters and black to black of the plate. If it was uniform I dont think people would complain.

Makes me think of maddux back in the day, that guy would be inside and outside so much he was getting calls 3-4 inches off the plate. It shouldnt happen like that. It should be the same regardless of who is hitting or pitching.

by Balls and Strikes on Dec 16, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions

Without computers, the location of the bottom of the zone (which is supposed to be the bottom of the kneecap and not the shins, by the way), is determined by the opinion of the ump behind the plate. He takes visual clues from the height of the particular batter and the batter’s stance on that particular pitch, and visually determines where that kneecap is. Admittedly, he then decides whether or not he gives a shit about calling that spot a strike.

With computers, the location of the bottom of the zone (which is supposed to be the bottom of the kneecap and not the shins, by the way), is determined by the opinion of a couple of video technicians sitting out in a trailer in the parking lot behind the plate. They take visual clues from the height of the particular batter and the batter’s stance on that particular pitch (which was pre-fetched during batting practice and is adjusted in real time), and visually determine where that kneecap is. What they decide does not have to have anything to do with what the ump decides, even if the ump WANTS to call the pitch according to their specifications. There is no way to transfer that decision from the trailer to the ump.

Therefore, the ump might be doing his very best to call a consistent zone according to what he visually ascertains is in accordance with the rule book. But because the information between the ump and the techs will differ, and the techs can be just as inconsistent as as ump, and because they cannot communicate, that same ump can be called out as being inconsistent in his zone, and also even be 100% wrong.

Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.

by Stirrups on Dec 16, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions

Thanks for all this good information

I naively thought that there was far more accuracy to the computer’s strike zone than there in fact is. I guess that the world is not yet ready for robot umpires!

by rspencer on Dec 16, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions

I agree about rating the umps

I don’t favor replacing the umps, but they should definitely use the automated system to keep the umps honest. Only the highest-rated umps would be allowed to work the postseason.

by rspencer on Dec 15, 2009 10:19 PM PST up reply actions

Fucking A

too little, too late. If this pansy-bitch-ass playoff format didn’t exist this year, we would have won the World Series. Thanks for the pussy wimp scheduling these playoffs, Bud…why not just hand over the trophy to any team with a good one-two rotation punch and absolutely no depth every year now? Great way to determine the winner. I would have loved to have faced Chad Gaudin or whatever softy the Yanks had waiting for us in game four.

Fuck.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 16, 2009 12:03 AM PST reply actions