Read my text: Juan Rivera WILL NOT be traded
by Commander_Nate on Dec 17, 2009 6:25 PM PST
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PrintDuring the Hideki Matsui press conference today, Mike made it pretty clear where the Angels stand on all of these "Trade Juan Rivera for X" theories with the following statement:
"We have four bats we want out there every day with Juan, Torii, Bobby and Hideki," Scioscia said. "That's a pretty big quartet in the middle of our lineup."
Thankfully, management clearly sees the incredible value we are getting out of our left fielder, who is easily worth twice his current salary, and plans to keep him as a big part of our future. Trading him for albatrosses like Lowe, or somebody else and then replacing him with 5 years of Jason Bay, who'd be a defensive downgrade and only a slight offensive upgrade, is a bad idea. The Angels' management seems to understand this and has made it pretty clear where they stand.
So can we please put all of these rumors to bed and rejoice that Juan "Johnny Rivers" Rivera will be throwing chumps out from the warning track and bleaching fastballs into the stands for at least two more years? I for one, am stoked on this fact.
Here's to you, Number Juan!!!!
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Well...
What if Javi Vazquez is down to play in Anaheim for just one year, then you might be wrong. I think we get him for just a year, and yes I know he has a no trade clause to the AL and NL West. I’m starting to think Javi is plan C. So adding Javi’s and Matsui’s contracts to the payroll that take us out of the running for Bay. So who would we sign to fill the void at LF? GMJ? Is Bourjos ready? Nady?
They want power. We want respect...
Given the fact that he has that clause, I doubt it
Plus, I’d be very surprised if their top priorities right now aren’t getting a FA starter or trading GMJ for pitching. Possibly both.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 16, 2009 8:56 PM PST up reply actions
Javi V. has a NO-TRADE-CLAUSE
specifically barring a trade to ALL Western Division teams in both leagues.
This is an EXOTIC clause and it is there for one reason: because JAVI-V does not want to pitch for a west coast team.
Yeah, I'm just saying maybe he would pitch just for 1 year.
in the west coast. I know he loves to visit his family in PR, I dont know maybe he finds the Angels appealing, again for just 1 year.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 16, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see it
Nobody ties his club’s hands with that sort of clause and then changes his mind. When you negotiate a contract you give up something to get something so a clause like that cost him money, no way he rescinds it – realize it cost his agent money too!
I needed that false hope btw.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 16, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
Javi V
Travels to Puerto Rico on most off days to visit family. That is why he has a no trade to any west coast team. He doesnt want to be that far away. At least that is what was said on Biggsy’s show yesterday!
Keep Long Duck Juan in LF/DH. He is cheap and good!
R.I.P. Nick, you are missed!
G. Atkins and M. Gonzalez are longer options for the Angels.
both of them have reached an agreement with Baltimore. So who of the remaining relievers should we get? Oliver and….
They want power. We want respect...
Capps or Escobar perhaps
I’d be fine with either. They wouldn’t require giving up Juan Rivera so I’m all for it.
And Atkins is a 1B/3B just to clarify.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 16, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions
What about trading Juan and retaining Vlad?
Then we would have the oldest outfield in the history of baseball.
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 9:50 PM PST reply actions
Arte could sell ad space to AARP on the outfield wall
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 16, 2009 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
Best commercial on t.v.
Snuggies is 2nd best. Old people are hilarious.
No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.
by Rally Manatee on Dec 18, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions
love the dog with the reading glasses.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 18, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
What do you mean "Old people".
Snuggies are great for those drafty college dorm rooms! They say so themselves!
[OB DISCLAIMER] I have yet to find a college student who would be caught dead using a snuggie.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
They should make sports team Snuggies.
Then we could all wear them to the Big A.
No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.
by Rally Manatee on Dec 18, 2009 11:51 PM PST up reply actions
they do
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Dec 19, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
Time to let my wife (I mean "Santa") know what I want for Christmas.
Nick would be proud.
by halofan4life on Dec 19, 2009 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
Just because Scioscia specifically said that doesn't necessarily mean that Juan won't be traded.
He just said that because, as of right now, he’s still on the roster. Juan still may be traded. And he may not be. But the offseason isn’t over yet so we will just have to sit back and wait.
"F it, let's pitch." - Ervin Santana
by Chzburger Jones on Dec 17, 2009 12:20 AM PST reply actions
This implies that they'd rather keep him than trade him right now
I mean, what are your alternatives?
4-5 years of Bay for 60-70 million? GMJ? Milton Bradley?
Rivera plays the game very well and doesn’t cause problems in the clubhouse and comes at a low price. I don’t see why they’d want to replace that.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 17, 2009 8:56 AM PST up reply actions
Bay
The Mets are said by the NY Post to be offering $65M for four years, and possibly $75M for 5 years. That is $15M to $16.5M per season.
Juan Rivera will make a total of $9.5M over 2010 and 2011.
We can debate all day the differences between Bay and Rivera, but consensus would have it that Bay has a slight edge on offensive metrics and is at a huge loss on defensive metrics.
Assuming Bay would make $15M a season, does anyone seriously believe Bay would be $21.5M better than Rivera over the next two years? And does anyone seriously believe Bay will be as productive in 2013 and 2014 (when he’ll be 35 to 36 years old at the end of those seasons) as he is expected to be in 2010?
These are not unimportant questions. Money spent above and beyond the team’s budgeted payroll comes from elsewhere in the organization, which is typically player development—the number of scouts, the money set aside to pay bonuses to draftees.
If there is no tremendous difference between Bay and Rivera, than calling for signing Bay amounts to compulsive shopping.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 17, 2009 9:49 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
agreed, GK...No, I also don't believe he would be $21.5 million better than Bay over the next 2 years
PASS…Bay to the Mets and nobody cares!
NA, #34 SP, LAA
Light up the Halo for Nick!
More Howie please...
Yeah, I don't think it's possible for Bay to be $21.5M better than Bay.
I also don’t think that Bay will be $21.5M better than Juancho.
Just razzin’ you, hk47!
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
It's also just money that can't be spent on other FA down the line.
If we sign Bay today we can’t sign Mauer or Lee tomorrow.
But yeah your point is pretty clear. Rivera is good on offense and good on defense. Bay is great on offense and horrendous on defense. He’s not gonna be a full time DH for us if we sign him so it’s pretty clear that when salaries are taken into account Rivera is the guy you want on your roster.
Now if we could only somehow get rid of GMJ we’d have almost the perfect roster in terms of value.
I gotta start out saying I thoroughly agree with you, but...
at some point, a team can justify the cost of a player so much to the point that they are left with players playing at or near the league minimum.
While I would never believe that the Angels would drop to those standards, it is easy to see how it could happen. “We must trade Adrian Gonzalez because he will soon be a free agent and we won’t be able to resign him to an affordable contract.” – type of thinking could easily ensue.
At some point, a club must take a look at what is available on the market and judge it against what they currently have on their team (duh!) and decide if it is worth it to make the upgrade. I believe JRiv is the more valuable player (vs Bay) for the price. The trade rumors that swirl around regarding him seems to bear this out.
Well said.
Don’t know why HHers are so anxious to get rid of Mi Amigo Juan.
No matter what happens from here on, it has been a great season.
by Rally Manatee on Dec 18, 2009 7:55 AM PST up reply actions
I'm okay with not trading Rivera
But I’d like to see the team make a move that would make the team better. Obviously Rivera is a bargain with his contract and his performance. Which is why his name is so frequently thrown out there. If the Angels can find a starting pitcher and a bullpen arm without moving Rivera, more power to them.
But like what’s been said, we’ll wait an see.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
His name is thrown out there
by media-types and bloggers who have no idea what kind of value he brings to the team. They just look at the roster and go “Well, they have a bunch of outfielders, and I know least about this guy, so he probably trade bait!” Add in the fact that he looks slow and immobile, so he gets dismissed as someone who should be DHing. Even otherwise informed Angel bloggers seem to share this misconception (looking at you, Mr. Smith). There really is no evidence that the Angels have any interest in trading him, or making him a DH more than once or twice a month.
I’m not saying he should be untouchable by any means. If he helps us land a Cain or a Sanchez, then we have to do it. Just remember that there is a pretty big drop off in production from Juan to Matthews, on both sides of the ball, and I really feel like this is being missed by so many that are in a hurry to trade our boy Juan.
by dmhead on Dec 18, 2009 9:06 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Juancho stays...
If anything, HGH Jr has got to be fuming even more than he was at the end of the season with the Matsui signing. I doubt he is going to sit still and be a quiet camper this season…
Gotta say I am perfectly content with our SP as is…have a spirited competition between our internal #5 SP candidates and go with it.
I think we need to re-sign Oliver and maybe one more RP and go with what we have…there is always the trading deadline to bolster shortcomings!
I say this because successful teams must have minor league breakouts every season. Who from within is this season’s breakout player?
Yeah, Halladay or Lee would have been nice…and frankly for what the M’s gave up…basically not much! Perhaps we are overvaluing our own prospects…which of course is counter-intuitive for my argument above! I refuse to believe that we don’t have a decent #5 starter or 2 in our existing system.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
Exactly, competition breeds excellence
The fact that there is an open rotation spot right now will likely encourage Palmer or somebody on the farm to step it up along with the 4 already in the rotation.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 17, 2009 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah and Saunders and Weaver have always excelled under pressure
Maybe its just my perception, but Saunders always seems ready to fight to be recognized. Weaver… man if it was always bases loaded no one out, I think that guy would somehow find a way to have an era of 0.00
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 17, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
I like this fanpost.
It makes sense.
R.I.P.N.A.
by TheAngelsAngels on Dec 17, 2009 5:02 PM PST reply actions
Thank you
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 17, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
Q'pla?
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 19, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
You have no honor! I should kill you where you stand!
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Nate, you have no clue
The Braves have asked about his availability, in a potential deal for Vazquez or Lowe. IMO, that’s too bold of a statement to say he will NOT be traded. Just wait and see. I think he will be traded and Jason bay is still a candidate for us. I wonder why Bay didn’t take Red Sox or Mets offer….
Curious
Where are you getting your clue? I’ve only seen Rivera’s name mentioned as “speculation” by Rosenthal.
My clue...
comes from the Angels official website… Just an FYI for you.
Overall, my point being, none of us know a damn thing. It’s been known for a while now that Scioscia, Reagins, and Arte say all the right thing at the right time. Why would they ever tip their hand, and potentially piss off one of their player?
Scioscia says the right thing AND THEN STICKS WITH IT. Which team are you watching?
when was the last time Scioscia raved about looking forward to a returning player being in his lineup and the player was then discarded?
Scioscia recently raved about Juan and said Kendry, Matsui, Juan Rivera and Torii were critical to having in the lineup.
Now you say that is a bluff… I say… NAME THE TIMES Scioscia has “bluffed” like you are thining he is.
He ain’t.
by Rev Halofan on Dec 21, 2009 12:22 AM PST up reply actions
True
Scioscia would be more likely to simply omit Rivera’s name if he was being packaged.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 21, 2009 7:03 AM PST up reply actions
Same team guy...
http://metsfever.blogspot.com/2009/12/mets-intensifying-interest-in-2nd-tier.html
Granted, it’s the NY Post… but I’m just saying. I’m not in the FO, but lets face reality Rev, neither are you.
I would love to know how YOU KNOW he’s not bluffing.
But the premise of the entire story is that the Angels are chasing Bay and/or Holliday
That alone makes me think the whole thing is someone’s fevered imagination.
If the Mets can’t stomach the contract demands of Bay or Holliday, in what universe does Arte find those same demands reasonable?
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 21, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
That's an old rumor, though
There hasn’t been anything in the last 10-15 days about Rivera and the Mets. Right now they are holding out on Bay and Molina because nobody else is bidding for those two.
Besides, who do the Mets have that we would want?
And what is that “Rivera got himself in the doghouse by not hustling during last year’s playoffs” bull? The dude got some key RBI and stole more bases than Chone Figgins this postseason.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 21, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
To George and Nate:
I think this is where we agree to disagree, and part on this one.
George… us agreeing couldn’t last forever, could it? Haha.
But we'll always have last week
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 22, 2009 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
Fair Enough
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 23, 2009 9:08 AM PST up reply actions
I read the same article
But it’s quoting the same report from angelswin.com that someone posted in another thread. That report confirms we are talking to the Braves, but Rivera’s name and any others involved on our end is pure speculation.
If you’ve ever e-mailed Lyle Spencer a question for the Angels Mailbag, he usually e-mails you back. He and Rhett Bolinger are reporters for the team, but not members of the FO or upper management. In most cases, they are nearly as in the dark as you or I.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 21, 2009 8:31 AM PST up reply actions
A statement from our Manager
Is more proof than speculation by Ken Rosenthal.
Also think about it, it doesn’t make sense for us to move Rivera for an albatross (Lowe) or a 1 year rental (Vazquez) and then go overpay Bay at about $10 million a year more than we pay Rivera to do the same level of work.
Bay is holding out for a 5 year deal. The Mets have only offered him 4 and are playing hardball with him because they don’t think anyone else is going to bid higher than them. They are probably right.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 19, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
See above...
Our FO are politicians, as they should be.
As I stated in the “What are your thoughts on Derek Lowe” fanpost:
I personally like Derek Lowe and think he’d be a solid option for us… but it creates problems down the road like:
1. Blocks Reckling.
2. Ties us down for three more years for $45M.
3. Leaves LF open without a solid bat.
4. If Lowe was traded for and LF was open, I think his salary alone wouldn’t allow us to sign Bay to replace Rivera. Unless Arte is talking about adding a significant money quantity to the already high payroll. I can see it for Halladay, but not Lowe.
So in short, look for an arm somewhere else. Or sign Ben Sheets to a Rich Harden type deal.
by matt92130 on Dec 19, 2009 12:45 PM EST
http://www.halosheaven.com/2009/12/15/1202755/what-are-your-thoughts-on-derek
Agreed
I think Sheets on the short term is the best option.
"You gotta have nuts." - Torii Hunter / Part-Time Nemesis of the HH Reply Function
by Commander_Nate on Dec 19, 2009 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
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