What is wrong with the angels staff !!
by angelspopbottles on Dec 9, 2009 9:41 PM PST
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Why offer Aybar!!! I understand Saunders and Bourjos but why not give up Brandon Wood. Aybar just finished an astonishing season and we are just gonna give him up for Roy Halladay. Dumba*s deal if you ask me. Brandon Wood who has never proven himself should be playing in Canada. And i dont wanna hear these people saying he has not gotten his chance i'm tired of it. Aybar led the team in average and is a terrific shortstop. The only deal i would send to Toronto is Saunders,Wood, Bourjos and what the heck throw in Hank Conger.
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As much as Aybar proved me wrong this year
Why the HELL would you want to give up Brandon Wood at this point in time? In anyway you put it, the Jays REALLY want Aybar and not necessarily Wood.
Gotta give up something.
Hey, your preaching to the pastor, screw the choir!
I have this nagging feeling that any trade involving Aybar will be regretted by us. Everybody has been awaiting the big league arrival of Wood, because of his potential, youth and inexpensive cost, well, what about Aybar? The guy has really turned it around with some GREAT D, a developing bat and I believe he’ll eventually be a premier SS. Plus he’s cheap! I could be wrong about Aybar, and last year may have been his best and his worth could be at an all time high. But then again, we could all be wrong about Wood too. Trade Conger, keep Aybar.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
uhhhh
For the same reasons you want to KEEP Aybar, the Jays would like to acquire Aybar.
To get talent, you must give up talent. Yes, Wood is talented. But Aybar has two years of MLB action to show for himself, and he’s a better athletic bet to do well on the turf than Woody.
www.13stoploss.com
feNOMINAL, I feel you, and agree.
But the question is why would we want to trade him, IF, we could possibly move another prospect. At the risk garnering a lot of wrath, i’d move Wood instead. I understand the concept of giving to get, the Jays aren’t gonna give up Halladay for GMJ. I still can’t shake the feeling that this would be a bad trade if it involves Aybar. Just my opinion.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
Do you really think there was no discussion of players?
But the question is why would we want to trade him, IF, we could possibly move another prospect.
That’s as foolish a question as “Why aren’t we trading Wood for Wells instead?”—because the Angels don’t want Vernon Wells and the Blue Jays don’t want Brandon Wood.
This isn’t some medium in which one GM can impose his will upon another. It costs quality to get quality, and the Jays know that if the Angels really want Halladay, the Angels will pay what the going rate is. If the Angels make the deal it will be because (A) they see Halladay as a once-in-a-generation pitcher, who can mentor some of the younger pitchers coming up, and (B) they feel they have the parts (or can acquire them) to replace Wood at 3B if he gets moved over to SS.
The front office isn’t drunk and acting wildly. If anything, in the past its been too sober and unwilling to make a leap of faith. Nothing happens unless Halladay agrees to the trade and the Angels can sign him to an extension, so this is far from being a done deal. But as Arte showed with Teixeira, there is an elite group of players who can make a difference, and for them Moreno will bust his budget.
Or has everyone forgotten the winter of 2003 when he spent his money on Colon, Guillen and Escobar, then went beyond his budget for Guerrero? Again, he went beyond his stated means to get the player he knew would make a definite impact, and Halladay is the Guerrero of 2009 as far as he’s concerned.
I trust the front office to know a hell of a lot more about the depth chart and the talent bubbling up in the minors than any of us do. If the team is willing to move Aybar, then it is because there are more moves to make, within or without the club.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 3:32 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
GK, i'm with you too, much like feNOMINAL.
As I’ve said on other posts, I’m all for getting Halladay, I think he would be one hell of a pick up for the Halos. The only thing I had a problem with is giving up Aybar, IF, there was any chance to move another prospect or another major league ready player in his stead. I understand to get premier talent, we have to give up talent ourselves. As I said on other posts, giving up the Colonel, or WTY or even Santana was a price I understood for a pitcher of Halladays caliber. Aybar may have reached his ceiling. He may never duplicate his past season performance. And he may be the player to be traded that lands us Doc. But what if Aybar is the SS we as Halo fans have been hoping and praying for. A player with tremendous unrealised upside. A player that may very well be the SS of our collective dreams. A pipe dream perhaps, but the same can be said of Brandon Wood. You’re right, the FO knows more than you or I, I just hope in our zeal to land Halladay, we don’t give up a future Gold Glove SS for a 33 year old SP, whose best years are behind him.
YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....
The question is, when did Aybar become an option?
Do I not recall reading something somewhere at some time that said Arte basically said Aybar was off the table since he’s his favorite or something?
"Death to the opposition!" - Commander Worf, First Baseman: The Niners
Probably because
Last year he would have been a two month rental. I believe this (new) trade would only happen if we sign Doc to a long term extension.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Dec 9, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
Ummm...no
Last July, Halladay would have been a one year and two month “rental”. If the trade had been made last July, Halladay would be in the final year of his deal, wearing an Angel uni, had no extension been written since.
But you are correct in the latter point—the Angels don’t close the deal unless they get the extension signed first.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 3:34 AM PST up reply actions
yep, of course
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Dec 10, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
You answered your own question
On why we had to offer Aybar instead of Wood.
I’m splitting down the middle on this. Without Aybar we have a fine left side infielder in Iz, but Woody is still an if. And no depth/back up (Iz and Srod were our backups last year, and figgy is gone).
Definitely a big gamble.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
makes no sense
for so many reasons.
1. Lost a good SS Cabrera to pave the way for Ayber.
2. Lost a good lead off hitter in Figgins.
3. So now we will lose another lead off hitter with Ayber? Ayber is our best lead off man next year, please dont say Aberu.
Little scared with our direction, and is Reagins the GM or is it Mike? I was to fond of Bill Stoneman, more and more, I am liking him. He did a great job building our pitching staff and minors.
by Ca1IFORNIA ANGELS on Dec 10, 2009 12:07 AM PST reply actions
Wow, always gotta bring Mike into it don't you...
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Otherwise decent point...
The whole Scioscia red-herring aside…yes, CA, Tony wears the pants, don’t you worry about it…
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
"Makes no sense" is right
But thanks for the warning before your post:
makes no sense
for so many reasons.
1. Lost a good SS Cabrera to pave the way for Ayber.
2. Lost a good lead off hitter in Figgins.
3. So now we will lose another lead off hitter with Ayber? Ayber is our best lead off man next year, please dont say Aberu.
Little scared with our direction, and is Reagins the GM or is it Mike? I was to fond of Bill Stoneman, more and more, I am liking him. He did a great job building our pitching staff and minors.
First of all, if you’re going to have a man-crush on a player, have the common decency to spell his name correctly—AYBAR. It is just four letters; it isn’t as if you were praising Saltalamaccia.
Second, it is possible that you are the only person here who doesn’t know that the decisions are made jointly by Reagins, Scioscia and Moreno? That it was always that way, even when Stoneman was in the job instead of Reagins? That Moreno has long requested the input from the manager and field coaches to evaluate talent more completely? Moreno prefers a collaborative approach to his team’s operations and is a hands-on owner. This is absolutely not a huge revelation, unless you simply don’t pay attention to the team.
Finally, it you did pay the slightest attention you’d see that the Angels don’t make moves in a vacuum. There is a plan being worked which would ultimately lead to the goal of a better team. For example, trading Aybar might lead to Izturis at SS and Wood at 3B, or Wood at SS and a move to get a cheap 3B, like Garret Atkins, who is expected to be non-tendered by the Rockies and could be signed for cheap—a change of leagues and a return to OC might do him good, since he clearly isn’t as bad offensively as the guy who wore his uni last season. He’d cost less than the $6M the Rockies don’t want to pay him through arbitration, and he’d be a free agent for 2011, when Sandoval should be ready to move up to Anaheim and Izturis could be gone through free agency.
If you’re really “scared of the direction” the team is pursuing, I understand the Royals are looking for fans. That might be more to your liking, especially since Scioscia won’t be managing in KC anytime soon.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 7:58 AM PST up reply actions
"AYBAR. It is just four letters". Classic.
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Nice catch
I just know the poor woman who sews the names on the Rangers’ jerseys came down with carpal tunnel syndrome when Daniels completed the trade of Teixeira and Jerod came over. Have you seen his uni jersey from behind—his name starts below his left scapula and ends below his right one.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
Well, the "A" *is* used twice, so it's four distinct letters.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Exactly my point
Four letters. No need to add an additional E.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
Where's Vanna?
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
Jeebus.
If we’re starting to count the number of letters in Salta-whatever’s name, it’s a definite sign that the Apocalypse is about to commence.
Good think he’s not jersey number 666.
No...
it’s in 2012
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
by Angel Hawker on Dec 10, 2009 9:46 PM PST up reply actions
What? The Cubs win the World Series in 2012????
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
Did you watch the playoffs this year...
because if you did, you saw what having a dominant starting pitcher could do (with the Skanks). Roy Halladay is that kind of guy and he would take us deep in the playoffs.
I would prefer Abreu to Aybar because he has a higher OBP (.390/.353 last year; .404/.324 career) and steals more bases (30/14 last year; 29/12 career). Abreu also has a much better success rate at SB than Aybar (79% / 67% last year; 76% / 67 % career). Figgins was a better leadoff hitter for sure, but Abreu wouldn’t be a bad fit.
I am not opposed to moving Aybar now because I think we’d be selling high. I don’t think Aybar is a .300 hitter and think last season he got a little lucky with his .338 BABIP. That said, I do LOVE his defense and wouldn’t mind keeping him, but if he is the big loss in trading for Halladay, I say we’d made out like bandits (provided he signs an extension with us).
If I were the GM I’d choose B-Wood over Aybar for the future. Aybar’s upside is BA & superb defense, Wood’s upside is getting a TON of extra base hits and being a middle of the order bat. Throw a Halladay in the mix and is it really that much of a gamble?
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
by Angel Hawker on Dec 10, 2009 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
I think this is all GARBAGE!
Noone is giving up that package for Halladay! If Reagins does this trade he loses all credibility with mej!
Saunders and Aybar/Wood and Bourjos? REALLY???? Crazy talk!
Saunders and Bourjos OR some other prospect…take it or leave it!
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
Possibly or even probably...
…but this crowd undervalues Saunders…I think it will be a huge mistake to part with him and the salary flexibility he allows us. Halladay is far older and many many millions of dollars more expensive.
Eybar made me a believer this season. I have even occasionally intentionally spelled his name correctly since he cut down on the errors on routine plays… ;-)
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
I'm in the same boat with you on Saunders.
IMO, if they want a starter, Give ’em Santana.
Nick would be proud.
by halofan4life on Dec 11, 2009 8:40 AM PST up reply actions
Problem is, the Jays are the ones who will dictate the terms
They have what we want. If they want Saunders, then it is Saunders or no deal.
Are you saying it should be Saunders on the Angels or no deal for Halladay?
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 11, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
That's not what I'm saying.
It’s similar to the feelings in 2008 when Kotchman went in the Tex trade. Good trade, but totally bummed me out. I have this thing for lefties in a rotation, especially good ones. If Saunders has to be included, so be it, but it’ll make me a little sad.
Nick would be proud.
by halofan4life on Dec 11, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough
It’s just that we lack the power in the negotiation to “give ’em” anyone except the player they ask for.
Or we don’t do the deal. Our choice on that score.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 11, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
No the jays dont necessarily control the terms, halladay does
The jays need to move halladay and he gets to dictate where he goes.
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 11, 2009 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
But that doesn't dictate the players, just the destination.
If they don’t recieve the kind of player haul they expect, they’ll swallow the idea, play the season, offer him arb. and take two picks in 2011.
Nick would be proud.
by halofan4life on Dec 11, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
Do you people understand what you're saying?
You will not give up Erick Aybar, slightly above average Major League shortstop, for Roy Halladay, the most consistent and dominating pitcher in the Big Leagues over the last seven or eight seasons? You have got to be fuckin’ shittin’ me.
The only difference in our lineup between this year and last year, if this thing works out, is that the left side of our infield is most likely Wood/Izturis instead of Figgins/Aybar. Take a good, long look at those names. Does that really seem like the difference between another 95 win team and not making the playoffs? Absolutely not.
Having said that (any Curb fans out there?), I want to see the club get Roy and Lackey. No one else. Screw all position players, we don’t need to add anything. The difference between losing to the Yankees in the ALCS and winning the World Series comes down to this:
Halladay v. Sabathia
Lackey v. Burnett
Weaver v. Pettitte
We need something to get this team over the hump. I want to see the front office do something big and take some risks. Let’s play!
RIP NA
by NoDakHalo on Dec 10, 2009 9:07 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
All due respect to Aybar
He is significantly more than “slightly above average”; his defensive range, especially up the middle, is outstanding, and as he develops his knowledge of the game (which yields better positioning, the factor which has kept Jeter respected in the game) he will get better and better.
What is lost on so many here is that it takes quality to get quality, and insisting (as some have) that Izturis and a couple of rookies is sufficient to get Halladay is ridiculous. Look at the players the Yankees and Phillies are supposed to be offering in exchange and you’ll get the idea—Jesus Montero may well be the next Victor Martinez.
The Blue Jays aren’t obligated to trade Halladay, though it is in the team’s best interest to do so. As a result, it will cost any team which makes this deal. If the Jays think Aybar is what the team needs, then that is part of the cost if the Angels decide the team can’t advance further in the ALCS without Hallday at the top of the rotation. That is all there is to it.
But the reason the Jays would want Aybar is because he is way more than “slightly above average”. The sky is the limit with him.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
I absolutely agree
with your statement that it is going to cost a lot to get Halladay. I also agree that many people do not understand that. For example, K3YEROUT’s statement below. Aybar straight up or Aybar and Bourjos together may get you a Nick Blackburn quality of pitcher. To think that the Jays would go for that is absurd. In fact, they are saying that they want to get five players out of this deal, meaning we would have to throw in to more prospects. Aybar straight up? Unbelievable.
We can disagree about the Admiral’s capabilities as a Major League shortstop, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is going to cost a lot to get a lot in return. That we should all be able to agree upon.
RIP NA
…and my basic point is that sending one of Saunders/Weaver in this trade is absurd.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
so are you just saying
that there is no realistic deal worth putting together to get halladay?
RIP NA
No, I just think the combo of taking the player off their hands, the salary requirements of re-signing Halladay, and some combo of prospects should be enough. Or, the trade needs to be expanded to include other players coming from Toronto. If you are going to send players from our starting 9 or existing rotation it is too much for a player of his age / salary requirements.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
Alex Rios was taken off their hands
Roy Halladay will be bargained away. Big difference.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
I think there is an element of “taken off their hands”…see Ricciardi out as GM and Adropolus (sp?) in as GM.
You may have to login I am not sure, but go HERE for Halladay’s PECOTA projections for the next 6 years. Halladay’s age 33 season and beyond. Based on those numbers and my gut, I cannot recommend signing him for the kind of money and years routinely discussed AND give up that many quality players for a guy who pitches every 5 days. IMO, his best years are behind him and we would be paying him for what he did with Toronto. I take my chances with Joe and the Admiral. Sign Lackey if you want, but honestly with either of these guys you are probably paying them for what they already achieved and not the level they are going to achieve. At least not for the life of the contract. IMO we would be shooting our wad for one championship next year and then the following years be damned…
All of this is obviously contingent upon Halladay’s willingness to sign an extension. Now if you want to discuss this same offer for Adrian Gonzalez and move Kendry to LF/RF…
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
There is always the chance that Halladay is a statistical freak
Like Ryan, or Maddux, or Smolz, and just continue successfully as the numbers 4-0 become clearer and clearer on the horizon.
- Ryan had four of his best years after he reached 40, leading his league in strikeouts 4 seasons in a row (twice with Houston, then twice with the Rangers).
- Maddux went 117-69 in the seasons of ’99 to ’05, when he spanned the ages of 33 to 39, had an ERA of 3.49 and a WHIP of 1.177 (helped greatly by a K:BB of 4:1); he pitched 19 CG, 7 of which were shutouts.
- Glavine went 137-92 over the seasons of ’98 to ’06; he was between 32 and 40 over those years. He had an ERA of 3.53 and a WHIP of 1.33. He threw 16 CG, 9 of which were shutouts.
ANYTHING can happen, we all know that. No player comes with a guarantee of a perfectly fulfilled long-term contract. But Halladay has shown a durable makeup and reports from scouts praise the mechanics he displays and the training ethic he embraces. Halladay is as close as it gets to a “sure thing”.
The Angels will do well if no trade is made and they go into the season with Weaver, Saunders, Santana and Kazmir for the first 4. But adding Halladay would provide the younger pitchers with a great role model and the offense with a pitcher who is as automatic a W as exists in the game today.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
Great points GK all...
If the trade happens, I hope you are right. From what I have read subsequently, the Jays want even more than the package that I already think is too rich so this is possibly all moot anyway.
FWIW…all above are the exceptions rather than the rule AND I do not trust any stats of anyone from the HGH/PED era.
GK your arguments are all well thought out and it will be fun to see what transpires… :)
ps…I still love the thought of a package for AGonz…can you imagine a lineup with Abreu, Hunter, AGonz, Kowbell, HK, and Woody in the middle of it?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
I think the jays are in somewhat of a bad position
They either trade him now or lose him for a couple draft picks next year. Obviously they arent going to compete in ’10 so they need to trade him. The angels dont need to offer what the jays want, they just need to offer what they want more than the phils, yanks, and whoever else Halladay will aprove a trade to is offering.
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 11, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
Uhhh, if it was Eybar straight up or Eybar and Bourjos...Ok...
Not when you include Saunders! That is what I am saying!
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
This reminds me of Dallas MacPherson….Dallas MacStrikeout…..Dallas MacInjured….he was touted to being the second coming of Gawd at third base and off with Glaus’s head…..well, we all saw how awful MacPherson really is/was…I realizr Figgy stepped up and played superb third base, but there were times when we really Glaus’s big, ahem, bat….I’ve seen Brandon Wood play on occasion this season, and last, and frankly, my dears, I’m, just not that impressed.
I dont understand what is going on with this club right now….Rex, Phys, Figgy, possible trade of Juancho The Bat Sniffer, probaly letting Lackey go, and now Escobar, and now they want to throw out Ayebar? I dont like where this going…..
Oh, I get it. You took the Mc of McPherson, inserted an "a" incorrectly and then coupled it with adjectives describing Dallas' unfortunate tenure with us.
That’s very clever. Some may even say luminous.
You show much resistance power, snowhor.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
Why do the Blue Jays even want Aybar?
Obviously they want him because he’s talented, but last week they just committed about 5.5 million to 2 free-agent SS – Gonzales and MacDonald. Newly signed free-agents cannot be traded before June 15, 2010. Coupled with the fact they have Encarnacion at 3rd and Hill at 2nd, I don’t know where they could even play Aybar!
If I were the Blue Jays I’d be aking for Napoli instead.
Putting Aybar in this trade does not make sense for the Angels or Toronto.
Good call TSamn15
I’m still upset about Rex being fired. He was the voice of the team. Whenever I’d turn on a game and hear his voice it would make me smile. No one had more passion for the Angels and enthusiasm for the game than Rex Hudler.
Yeah, we should have kept Rex
And included him in the deal for Halladay.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
Way to make one of top catching prospects a "Throw In".
Look, I get it, I’m on the fence, too. We’ve watched Aybar grow up. He’s talented, without a doubt, improving in every facet of the game. I wasn’t a fan of his at first, but he’s proved me wrong. I don’t want to see him go, BUT. ..
We’re talking about acquiring Roy Halladay. Top 5 Cy Young candidate in 5 seasons, winning once. 6 time All-Star. Statistically, he’s one of the best. Matchups mean everything in the stretch run and playoffs and who do you want pitching versus the Becketts and Sabathias of the world: Saunders or Halladay? And this is nothing against Saunders, but you want Roy Halladay taking the mound.
If the Angels can extend Roy’s contract, I’d do this trade and every GM would too.
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
by Slasher52 on Dec 10, 2009 9:28 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I get going after Halladay, but we would be giving up a decent pitcher, and a red-hot shortstop, we still dont have Lackey or Escobar, and we would still be short a pitcher….Halladay cant pitch everyday.
I Heart the Reply Button
You should Heart it too!
1 line siggy line because I was asked nicely. Go Angels! helpfindscottajob@gmail.com
We still don't have Lackey and neither does anyone else...
I’ve been reading that the Halos are going after BOTH Lackey and Halladay. Your comment “I don’t like where this is going” holds no water if they land both of those pitchers.
I love this team.
by Downing Rules on Dec 10, 2009 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
wow. imagine where our payroll would be if we did.
assuming that halladay signs that extension.
"come on, eileen."
Say no
I don’t like this deal. I feel it hurts the team as a whole. Don’t do it.
by Sethy on Dec 10, 2009 10:00 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Roy knows we go to the postseaston very often.
lately, its only a matter of time that becomes an Angels. Philly wont pony up and offer a package IMO.
They want power. We want respect...
I say no...
Championships are overrated and I feel Aybar could possibly develop into an above average leadoff man (minus the ability to steal bases) with great defense.
Saundo will match up great next year in games 1 and 4 with C.C. Also, you never trade speed and CF potential for a proven Cy Young, so just keep Bourjos out of this thing altogether!
by Wytelitning on Dec 10, 2009 10:41 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
You sir, win.
RIP Nick Adenhart.
"When the Babe tries to call his shot, I hope Nick puts one in his ear."
--RallyMonkey5
I sent this to the boys in the lab
And you pegged the needle on the Sarcastometer. They’re going to be sending you the repair bill.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
See... just shows that the Sarcasm Detector is just such a useful invention.
Angels baseball. We do what we must, because we can -- HaloDutch
I think
this only makes sense if we KEEP Lackey.
i know most people are thinking that we need to do this if we loose him. i feel differently;
If we keep Lackey and get Halliday we would then have the best staff in baseball. We wouldn’t be missing a whole lot, I look at Boujos a non factor because we have OF now and we have younger guys who can come up and play in future years. We lose Saunders but get Halliday, that is a plus for us (even though I like Saunders) really it just is the question of is loosing Aybar worth getting Halliday and I say yes.
Having Lackey, halliday, Sanatana, Kazmir, and Weaver, plus our youngsters like Bell and Sullivan would be a great staff with good backups in case of injuries.
It would even allow us a few options… Trading a pitcher, either Santana, Bell or Sullivan, with a prospect to get another piece or we could move Wood back to SS and pick up a Beltre if you got the bucks or even a Crede on a two year deal.
Or you leave Wood at 3b and get a SS on the cheap for a couple years until a prospect or a better FA is ready
I like options
Quit Bitching about Wood not playing, The guy does deserve his shot but quit pretending that we have Willie Mays riding the pine
by Sinatrasratpack on Dec 10, 2009 11:03 AM PST reply actions
who are the outfielders waiting in the wing?
i thought we had a problem in depth there. grichuk and trout havent even really started rookie ball yet. bourjos is our best outfield prospect in a possible future weakness. i not saying i necessarily disagree offering him in the trade, just with that he was a non-factor. he also bats leadoff, and we just lost one of those.
R.I.P.N.A.
by TheAngelsAngels on Dec 10, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
...
Terry Evans, Chris Pettit, and grichuk and trout while far away they might be, it is not like we need any OF in the next 2 years
and an outfielder can be found on the open market almost every year as a stop gap.
Quit Bitching about Wood not playing, The guy does deserve his shot but quit pretending that we have Willie Mays riding the pine
by Sinatrasratpack on Dec 10, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
youre are just naming outfielders in our system and calling them bona fide options
evans and pettit are both fourth outfielders, maybe starters for a losing club. i already addressed grichuk and trout.and they both have to at least have success in the minors first. like i said before, i am only disagreeing with you calling bourjos a non-factor. i think hes a huge factor to at least be considered. the angels like depth and as they have demonstrated, with good reason.
R.I.P.N.A.
by TheAngelsAngels on Dec 11, 2009 12:10 AM PST up reply actions
You got to give up a heck of a player to get one in return....
Since your new to HH, I will forgive you missing out on the hundreds of other discussions we have had about Wood that have proven he still has tons of potential of being a good ball player.
Also, as diehard angel fans know, the philosophy of the club is to NOT jettison young talent and thus gut our already aching farm system. Dont just think of the now, think of the future. Erick is a helluva player but last year also might be the best year he will ever have. And look at the talent we got coming up or how the infield would look like without Erick. Not so bad….
In the end your trading a young player who hits for average but doesnt take a lot of walks, a good but no dominating starter and a prospect who might not even make it to the bigs for a five-time ALL-STAR and Cy Young winner whose strikeouts have actually increased per year the older hes gotten despite almost the same amount of innings.
I’ll take it.
Do it for Nick '09
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Dec 10, 2009 11:26 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
WHYZ DONT WEEZ GIVE UP JUSTIN SPEARZ AND JEF MATHIS AND THROW IN ROB QUINLAND
FOR ROY HOLIDAY?
AYBER JUST HAD A CAREER YEAR OF NOT MAKING TOO MANY MISTAKES
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
by clover_black on Dec 10, 2009 12:29 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I'd hate to break it to all you who say Aybar is untradeable...
But his improvement last year on offense was 100% due to his increase in batting avg. His OBP and SLG. only increased because is BA was up. BA is a highly variable statistic.
Now some reasonable people may respond: Spird, you are an idiot. His K-rate went down, his contact rate up, and his eye at the plate, while not generating many more walks, was a lot better because he was swinging at better pitches. Also, his MiLB stats said he was going to hit for avg. at the MLB level. To you, I say good points!
That said, I think that what you saw of Aybar last year is as good as it’s going to get. The only way I see him improving is if he maintains his BA and his power increases. I think it’s actually more likely that his offensive numbers decrease and I say, if you can sell high now, do it.
IMHO, Brandon Wood has a much higher ceiling as an offensive player. To bring up D-McPherson is ridiculous. McPherson is the exception. There are many more players with McPherson’s and Wood’s ridiculous MiLB stats that have had success in the MLB than have completely failed.
by Spird on Dec 10, 2009 12:34 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
While I disagree with you on Aybar
I think that he will continue to improve both defensively and offensively, turning into one of baseball’s top 4 sparkling SS’. And I think that he is showing the potential to turn into a top 10 hitter (short of HR’s/RBI’s).
But this is what you do with potential. When you get the opoortunity to convert it into the realization of outstanding talen (as in, Cy Young, #1 rotation, ace), and your current potential is in an area where you have depth, you do so.
So, in the end, yes, I do agree with you. Aybar is certainly tradeable NOW. But it’s the old adage: “Ass, Gas or Grass. Nobody rides for free.” If you want quality, you must surrender quality.
(That said, I have yet to be convinced that Wood has a high ceiling. I see him more as merely an improved version of Mathis. Serviceable D with a bat that will be good, but still disappoint.)
Had I owned the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could have saved America.
Jimmy Rollins and Jose Reyes can be available next year.
if the their teams dont pick up the club option.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 10, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Jimmy Rollins and Jose Reyes can be available next year.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 10, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Mets offer Bay 4/65, they might be willing to offer a 5th year.
http://twitter.com/SI_jonHeyman
They want power. We want respect...
Proof positive
There is no deal too stupid for Omar Minaya.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
I think this would be a good time to welcome all the new posters from the AngelsBaseball official fourms.
A few things to keep in mind:
1) Halo’s Heaven is not what you just came from, a chaotic, childish, poorly moderated shithole.
2) No one will take your post seriously if you spell like a three year old and your sentences grammatical structure of a retarded gerbil walking across a keyboard trying to find the next shiny object to dry hump.
3) Your trade idea is horrible and no GM in the world would even halfway consider calling another GM with what you just suggested.
4) Learn how correctly identify the players before you come here.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
whats makes you so sure that is the official offer?
espn? for all we know the trade is saunders, wood, and bourjos. be easy,
R.I.P.N.A.
by TheAngelsAngels on Dec 10, 2009 4:02 PM PST reply actions
Izzy has the most votes?
How the fuck do you expect the Jays to take Izzy as a future SS or 3B. I can’t wait for the guy who makes a “lets trade Willits, Izzy, Mathis, and O’Sully for Halladay” fanpost. You say trade Wood, but he is not our best prospect anymore. Other teams know that, and besides Wood can potientally give us a REAL THIRD BASEMAN. Your deal would make sense for the Blue Jays, but they need to remember that its their fault they didn’t trade Halladay. Now they have to take what we give them, unless they are ok in getting draft picks. If this deal goes through then it is a steal for a former Cy Young winner and future Hall of Famer.
They want power. We want respect...
i'd say no
I don’t think last season was a fluke for Aybar at all. I expect him to do as well or better for the near future. Halladay is good. But I fear his age, his lack of injuries, and his contract. Don’t get me wrong – Halladay is definitely a top notch ace. But he’s getting older and I think we have seen his best days. He hasn’t had siginificant injuries in forever – gut feeling tells me that he is due for an injury after all those innings pitched in many consecutive years. To get him, we have to give a lot of talent whether it includes Aybar or Wood and his salary isn’t cheap either. And if we falter in the playoffs again, will he back?
If we don’t win the WS (which is possible) and he doesn’t sign an extension, won’t we be screwed of our talented and cheap guys?
Angels 2009 WS Champs
Well the trade won't happen
without an extension
The latest...
The Blue Jays are still demanding nearly as much for Roy Halladay as they were this summer, according to ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark. The Angels, Phillies and Yankees appear to be “the only realistic destinations” for Halladay at this point. The Angels would apparently want Halladay to sign an extension if they traded for him, but the Jays don’t appear to be close to dealing their ace away. Here are the rest of Stark’s rumors:
* One GM would be shocked if the Angels don’t sign Jason Bay or John Lackey. The Angels haven’t shown any indications that they’re ready to offer Lackey A.J. Burnett money ($82.5MM).
They want power. We want respect...
Kind of an interesting contradiction
* One GM would be shocked if the Angels don’t sign Jason Bay or John Lackey. The Angels haven’t shown any indications that they’re ready to offer Lackey A.J. Burnett money ($82.5MM).
This is why I love the tweeting rumormongers—they don’t even care if they don’t make sense.
One GM (whoever that is) claims he’d be shocked if the Angels don’t sign Bay or Lackey, even though (according to Reagins) the team hasn’t discussed money with Bay’s agent (while the Mets claim to have presented Bay with an offer higher than the one from the Sox, with a possible 5th year on top), and Stark acknowledges the team’s offer isn’t in the same financial hemisphere as Lackey’s agent’s expectations.
But somehow or another, the Angels are predicted to sign one of them.
Of course.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe Aybar, maybe not
From Mike DiGiovanna’s article in the LA Times, some interesting quotes (emphasis mine):
There were reports late Wednesday night that the Angels offered pitcher Joe Saunders, shortstop Erick Aybar and top outfield prospect Peter Bourjos to the Blue Jays for Halladay.
But at least two sources familiar with the Angels’ thinking shot down that rumor. Reagins has not ruled out trading Aybar, who emerged as one of baseball’s top young shortstops last season, but the Angels are very reluctant to do so.
And if they are going to include Aybar in a trade, the package surrounding the speedy switch-hitter probably would not feature as much talent as one that did not include Aybar.
and
The Blue Jays have targeted Saunders, catcher Mike Napoli and Bourjos, among others. Reagins said it’s “possible” a deal for Halladay could be expanded to include other Blue Jays coming to Anaheim.
“We’ve talked about a lot of things,” Reagins said of his discussions with Toronto. “They have a lot of pieces that are attractive.”
The story including Aybar as being a part of a proposed deal came from the Toronto paper, and smelled at the time as being a wish list from the Jays camp and not insight into a genuine trade proposal from the Angels. At the same time, Reagins has tried to disabuse fans of the idea that Aybar is untouchable. Reagins seems willing to roll the dice on a few ideas, and has said there could well be some moves made over the next two weeks.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
The Jays would be straight hustled.
if the package was Saundo, Napoli, and Bourjos. But more Blue Jays? Who else could they include? Wells, Downs, League, Frasor?
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 10, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions
The Phillies want in...
dont know how they will do it, but…11:36pm: One baseball source tells Tom Verducci of SI.com that the Phillies have been “very aggressive” in their efforts to obtain Halladay. Apparently the Phils are trying to find the players the Blue Jays want, even if that means looking on other teams.
3 team trade? Sounds like it would be too hard to pull off, sorry phillies.
They want power. We want respect...
The problem I see with the Phillies
Cliff Lee becomes a free agent at the end of 2010 as well. Extending both Halladay and Lee would be very difficult for a team already committed in 2011 to $76M for Howard, Utley, Rollins, Ibanez, Lidge and Hamels. That is over half the team budget committed to 4 position players and two pitchers, and 17 other players would need to be paid as well if both Halladay and Lee were signed. Those two could easily command $30M between the two of them for 2011, which would tighten the budget like a noose, a situation made worse if the Phillies don’t win the Series in 2010 (or, worse still, don’t win the NL at all).
Letting one or the other go would be minimizing the investment the Phillies would have made through the trading of prospects.
"He's not a Rhodes Scholar to begin with''~Theo Epstein, talking about Papelbon
by George Kaplan on Dec 10, 2009 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah I was thinking that they go all out in 2010
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Dec 11, 2009 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
Any of those players listed are fine with me
I’d give up any of them but not aybar. I’m for a Halladay for Saunders/ Santana and parts trade. Giving up Aybar just feels like a big mistake.
by Balls and Strikes on Dec 11, 2009 12:57 PM PST reply actions
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