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PECOTA Projections are (Out of) Whack

PECOTA just released its 2009 projections. I haven't read up too much on how the projections are reached, but based on the outcomes it has something to do with a magic 8 Ball and chicken entrails.

In addition to projecting 4 .500+ teams in the AL East and 95 wins out of the Cubs, PECOTA says the Oakland A's are going to win the AL West with 82 wins, and the Angels will finish under .500 with only 79 wins.

If I remember correctly, the Angels were in first place BEFORE the Teixeira trade. I understand there will be a drop in production at 1B, but added ABs for Rivera plus the continued maturation of guys like Kendrick, Napoli and Aybar should make up some of that.

Regardless, 21 fewer wins than a year ago seems a little off the mark.

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

0 recs  |  Comment 36 comments

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Ah

I can’t believe I missed it. I hate duplicate posts.

by iLoveLamp on Feb 10, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't let Acuda read this part
I understand there will be a drop in production at 1B, but added ABs for Rivera plus the continued maturation of guys like Kendrick, Napoli and Aybar should make up some of that.

You seem to have dissed somebody.

by eyespy on Feb 10, 2009 12:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

WTF

who do they think Morales is? Katrina? Frosty Findley?

I will knock em the fug out!!!

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Feb 10, 2009 7:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That 21 games

is the handicap that we are spotting the rest of the West.

by eyespy on Feb 10, 2009 12:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think PECOTA is being a bit pessimistic, but...

I wouldn’t be surprised with an 85 win season and losing the AL West to an A’s team that plugged some holes and will get better because they guys are a year older.

If the Halos sustain some injuries – 79 wins could happen. Without signing Dunn the Halos are counting on a lot of things going right to make 2009 successful:

  1. Morales to step-up with the bat
  2. Vlad to not be in decline
  3. Napoli to be healthy and productive
  4. Figgy to bounce back
  5. Rivera to produce like a starter
  6. One of Moseley/Ortega/Adenhart to not suck
  7. B-Wood or S-Rod to produce if Figgy is traded
  8. None of the top four starters getting hurt
  9. GMJ returning and being useful if needed to fill in for an injured teammate

I think it is more likely this team wins 79 games than this team wins 95 games. But I predict something like 86 wins…we’ll see.

by jimmuscomp on Feb 10, 2009 12:56 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I do not have much faith in the A's SP

I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?

by hauldog on Feb 10, 2009 1:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nor should you

not a one of them has any legit big time experience. They’re going full steam ahead needing 5 starters to produce above their capabilities for the entire season. My guess is that if anything happens, the A’s will surge out of the gate behind the young starters, and fade after the AS-break. And their bullpen is a lot weaker without Street now, too.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Feb 10, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Lackey had no *significant* big time exp

Going into game 7, did he?

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Feb 10, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No, but he didn't pitch a full season going into it either

younger players have a tendency to not last well over a 162 game season.

Nor should exceptions be used to combat the rule.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Feb 10, 2009 5:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

True

Also, this was to show that the test does not work universally.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Feb 10, 2009 5:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Duke pitched out his A

No Harden this year either

I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?

by hauldog on Feb 10, 2009 5:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Look at his impact on the 2008 staff. that is gone.

I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?

by hauldog on Feb 10, 2009 5:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

True

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Feb 10, 2009 6:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1 to everything here

Saving countless runs with my defense.

by Sam Miller OCR on Feb 10, 2009 6:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I just love the fact

the NL West is projected better than us!! Now that is terrible. Secondly, the A’s will blow I have no worries about them. But as for projections…This is why they play the games.

Give the young guns a chance...if they suck wellll...

by angelskid2210 on Feb 10, 2009 1:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Looking forward to receiving my copy of the book

and seeing the individual player projections. I think we’ll be a few games over .500 based on the rotation, with the hitting getting stronger as the season progresses

by Matt UK on Feb 10, 2009 2:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The thing is

I can easily see Morales out-producing Kotchman’s first 4 months of with the team, since he really sort of leveled off a couple of months in, and was producing about a 100 OPS+ by the time he was traded. So overall, we ended up with about a 120 OPS+ from our 1B spot over the course of the entire regular season. It’s not totally unreasonable to expect Morales to put up about a 110 OPS+ this season, which would be a step down to be sure, but hardly a dramatic tapering off.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Feb 10, 2009 2:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

AL East

I’m confused. What’s wrong with projecting 4 AL East teams to be above .500? 4th-place in the AL East had 86 wins last year, so it’s not like it’s some wacky thing that is quite unlikely to happen.

--
Dan Szymborski
dan@baseballprimer.com

by D.Szymborski on Feb 10, 2009 6:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Seriously

Not to be an apologist for the awesomest man alive Nate Silver, but every supposedly silly prediction cited in this diary seems perfectly logical — except that the Angels seem a bit low. Not hysterically low, but low. I mean, the Cubs won 97 games last year. Why couldn’t they win 95 after adding Rich Harden and Milton Bradley?

Incidentally, PECOTA has had a tough time predicting the Angels over the past four seasons, and every time it has been pessimistic.

Saving countless runs with my defense.

by Sam Miller OCR on Feb 10, 2009 6:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but

Projecting every AL West team to be at or below .500 when the AL West as a whole has the highest winning percentage over the past five years or so? Really?

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Feb 10, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Also the AL west had winning records against the other two division didn’t they?

I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?

by hauldog on Feb 10, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No, they were 161-186 against the AL East and Central last year.

--
Dan Szymborski
dan@baseballprimer.com

by D.Szymborski on Feb 11, 2009 4:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oops. Thanks.

I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?

by hauldog on Feb 11, 2009 10:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The AL West had excellent total winning percentages in the 2002-2005 range, but it’s harder to match now with the Mariners being lousy and the Rays being a better team.

--
Dan Szymborski
dan@baseballprimer.com

by D.Szymborski on Feb 11, 2009 4:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have a problem with most of this...

1. The AL east will be very good
2. The Cubs will be in the neighbourhood of 95 games
3. The A’s will probably win about 82 games (with a little luck and a following wind)

But, as others have stated, PECOTA has a hell of a time trying to pick the Halo’s. Having said that, they consistently miss by about the same amount, and in the same direction each year: an average of 10 games under for the last 5, with a spread of 8-12.

Apply that projection to PECOTA and it would give the Angels 89 wins in ’09 with a spread of 87-91.

I suspect that’ll be pretty close to the truth.

I see red people

by The Limey on Feb 11, 2009 2:37 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The Angels usually beat their Pythag record...

Mostly because of their consistently dominant bullpen. This projection is based off of a similar calculation, so I’d expect them to be about 5 games better than the projection, plus a few more after the Abreu signing.

Also, how could more AB’s for Juan Rivera ever help you guys? The guy was below replacement level the last two seasons and has had one or two good years his whole career. Then you signed him up for three years. This is why you are projected to win 79 games next year, though I think it will be closer to 85.

by BTLove on Feb 11, 2009 12:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Forgive me, I am unfamiliar with that VROP stat. However, Juan Rivera was, in his short time on the team in ‘08, projected to hit mid-20’s HR’s over a “full season.” He also takes a few more walks than Garret Anderson, although his OBP was atrocious in a GMJ-shortened ’08.

So your VROP analysis over the last two seasons is factoring in a whopping total of 103 games out of a possible 324 he could have played in if healthy. VROP in those conditions should be tossed out the window.

So, another bat with HR-potential and I think more comfort at the plate with steady playing time will likely contribute into “good deal” for the contract given to him.

by Downing Rules on Feb 11, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And coming from a pessimist such as myself … the Halos are going to reach 90 wins in 2009.

by Downing Rules on Feb 11, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand why people take PECOTA seriously, especially about LAA

And few things are as irritating as the faux science of “well, he’ll probably add about two wins to the team” or whatever (note: not an actually quote). PECOTA is A) for people who don’t follow teams remotely as closely as fans do, and B) for people to get their biases confirmed. Oh yeah, and C) for Angel fans to laugh and laugh at in September.

by mattwelch on Feb 11, 2009 3:48 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's not complete BS though

We’re not going to beat it by 15 wins year in, year out.

replacement level analysis

by 442 on Feb 11, 2009 10:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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