2009 Angels vs. 2008 Angels
by ArkAngel on Feb 12, 2009 2:49 PM PST
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PrintBefore the Abreu signing, there was no doubt in my mind that we were entering 2009 in worse shape than 2008. I'm not talking about the September club with Teixeira either, I mean the club we started last season with.
Now I'm not so sure.
Abreu will doubtless be better than GA. And even though I would much rather have Kotchman back, I think Morales will at least approach the numbers Kotch would have put up. Our big drawback is still that #5 pitcher. Say what you will about Garland, he's better than anybody we're going to throw out there every fifth day right now.
There are other factors too. The kids are all one season better. Vladdy and GMJ should both be healthier. Napoli seems to be coming into his own as a hitter. Fuentes is quality, but he's no K-Rod. Rivera's leg is healed. Lackey's in a contract year. Escobar is coming back. Some guys will step it up (Weaver?). Some guys will take a step back. (Saunders?)
All things considered, I think it's a wash. Do you think we'll start 2009 with a better team than we started 2008 with?
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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So much I do not agree with
1) Abreu will be better than GA, Agreed
2) It will be hard for Morales not to have a better year in 09 than Kotch had in 08. Kotch’s line when he left: .237/.331/.316….. Ouch. his 2 whole homeruns in 55 games doesn’t look too good either. Morales would have to be a complete bust to not achieve those numbers.
3) Fuentes was actually better than K-Rod last year. So, yes, he is no K-Rod because he is actually better than him at this point of their careers.
4) Rivera has yet to do ANYTHING besides produce for one half of one year. I find the love for him around here somewhat disturbing. GMJ’s numbers are actually better than Rivera’s, and its not really close.
5) All Tex had to do was get ONE XBH in the ALDS. Just ONE. He constantly had one or two men on, and all he did was load the bases for Mr. Anti-Clutch Vlad. We all know at this point Vlad is just going to pop up or GIDP in the playoffs with the bases loaded….. so all Tex needed to do was hit just one double, or just one big fly, and we would have destroyed that team that I loathe more than… well anything.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
dude where'd you get your stats for Kotch
according to B-Ref, when Kotch was traded, his line was .287/.327/.448. a bit underwhelming for a first baseman, but it could be worse. and yes, i think K-Mo will surpass that.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 12, 2009 3:20 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, Slamma's numbers are wrong.
The .237 are his Atlanta numbers from 2008
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
Thats what you wrote......you said WHEN HE LEFT:
And that means when he left to Atlanta, so you have no reason to say “my bad”
I understood it with out reading the comments above.
Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think you read it the way I wrote it.
1) Yup.
2) “I think Morales will at least approach the numbers Kotch would have put up.” At least.
3) I just don’t agree that Fuentes is better than K-Rod right now.
4) I totally agree with your assessment of Rivera. I have always been one of the few who has said that. Where do you find in what I wrote that Rivera will be great? I said he’d be healthy…which would make him better than he has been. That’s all.
5) I don’t know what that has to do with anything.
So, when you say there was “so much” you don’t agree with…did you mean just that one thing?
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Maybe I was just angry and wanted to take it out on you
Its just some teenage angst left over, im still pissed my parents bought me a lexus instead of that benz I wanted.
The world is so dark and black, like my soul.
Fine, I only disagree with, like, two things and the rest were ramblings. You win.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
Heh. Okay.
I don’t mind disagreeing…of course not. You make good points. Got me thinking about Fuentes vs. Frankie.
I wasn’t interested in winning or losing. Just discussing. I didn’t think you were either.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
yoo
phi..i bought that book aliens/ghosts that you referred way back when. It should be here by Monday, so ill let you know.
me and the wonder dog got high!
by YOUknowulovetheIE on Feb 13, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
the lexus gs is pretty sexy looking
and benz 6 and 7 series do not look as sexy as they should be. i also hear the benzes start to treat you like a sugar daddy on the repairs after a couple years.
Driven into right-center field, Erstad says he has it...the Angels, world champions!
Deal.
Boo frickin’ hoo. You only got a Lexus. I didn’t get a car until I graduated from college. In 1984, as a college graduation present, I receved a 1975 Chevy Monza.
So don’t go crying to me about your frickin’ Lexus.
Angels fan since '67
by red floyd on Feb 13, 2009 8:44 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
im pretty sure he was kidding.
the emo-talk kinda gave it away
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 16, 2009 7:40 PM PST up reply actions
i seem to remember vlad hitting pretty well in the playoffs last year
And after checking, he hit .467/.579/.533
sooo I dont get #5 as it relates to “Anti-Clutch Vlad”
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 12, 2009 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
yeah I was gonna say the same thing... .467 is pretty ok by me...
Show 'em your a panther... Show 'em what you can do....
by stuck in Romania on Feb 12, 2009 11:53 PM PST up reply actions
I dunno about that
Lackey was out while Santana & Saunders were still relative Q-Marks.
So we were still missing a 5th starter, remember how Nap’s CERA got so bad.
Also, as mentioned above, Vlad & GMJ got a doctor to fix their knees.
Vlad’s especially is a nice step up in my book.
We’re about even I’d say.
If GA wasn't so Lazy, I'd have something clever here.
by TheTypingFiend on Feb 12, 2009 7:40 PM PST up reply actions
disagree
no lackey or escobar
ON opening day, i dont think anyone here was happy about our team. Obviously in retrospect it worked out, but its hard to compare one season in retrospect and another looking forward.
For instance, Id say our entire pitching staff is better on opening day 2009 than it was 2008. Our bullpen right now is incredible (on paper)
Our offense isnt that far off from the opening day roster last year either. There was no Teixeira on opening day 08 and theres Abreu instead of GA this year.
So basically its not a no brainer
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 12, 2009 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
Another way to look at it...
We trade Morales for Anderson- this is probably a wash, especially against right handers.
Abreu instead of Kotch – that’s a plus in the lineup, but a minus in field.
And Howie, Naps, Mathis, Aybar, Morales, Santana, Wood, SRod are another year closer to their primes.
I’d say there’s a lot of upside on this roster, and it won’t take much luck to make us better than last April’s team.
I meant team prior to Tex, is better than this team.
I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?
That has yet to be seen
the team has yet to take the field this year.
If GA wasn't so Lazy, I'd have something clever here.
by TheTypingFiend on Feb 13, 2009 5:22 PM PST up reply actions
We are not better...
until the fifth spot is figured out. At least we had Lackey coming off injury last year for a huge boost early in the year.
Right now we have a question mark every five days and that certainly does not make us better, no matter who we add to the offense.
Every year this team adds an aging outfielder to help the lineup, but they have no problem letting our kids take the mound. I just hope it works out again.
5th starter role...
Doesn’t concern me as much. I don’t know why, since my only objective reason for not being worried is the sheer number of names we have available. I just think we have four guys available who are a decent bet to match Garland’s production, and one will pan out. Plus, the pen is deeper than it was last year, so we can afford to take a hit in the number of innings coming out of the 5 slot.
Ehh.
GA —> Abreu
Kotchman —> Morales
Garland —> ???
With all our guys aging one year, I guess I’ll call it a little worse off, but who knows if our young guys can play.
replacement level analysis
myspacecobar?
Tex went to the dark side.
by vlad IS my man on Feb 12, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
Escobar should not be counted on. He might never throw a pitch again...
planning on a pitcher who had shoulder surgery is folly. If he returns, great. If not – I wouldn’t be surprised.
Jim Scully
I would say we are about even.
The outfield is better this year.
The infield at this point without Tex. I would say is not as good. Maybe K-Mo and Wood can produce then it would be better.
Starting pitching I would say is about the same because I think whoever the #5 guy(s) will be, will add up to Garlands production and that is all we will need.
And our bullpen is better of than last year. We got a more consistent closer and everybody is a year older and a year better.
Give the young guns a chance...if they suck wellll...
Except for the #5 starter situation, they're better this year
I was worried last season about short because I doubted either Aybar or Izturis could play it well enough. This season I’m not worried at all, in fact I think it’s a depth that could be used in a deal.
Morales should do just as well as Kotch, with maybe a bit more power and slightly worse defense.
Abreu doesn’t replace GA. Rivera takes Anderson’s spot and he should do as good as GAs first half stats, hopefully he can match the hot second half GA has had the last couple years.
Abreu will play DH where he replaces Mathews Jr. Abreu is better than GMJ.
Napoli is my pick for breakout player of the year.
Fuentes is not as good as 2002 K-Rod…but better than 2008 K-Rod.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
A lot of Fuentes love.
Don’t misunderstand me. I’ve been a fan since he started closing for Colorado. And I get that the number of saves a closer acquires is, at best, a partial measure of his quality.
Still, do most baseball people feel that Fuentes is superior to Frankie? Or do people here just feel that way because he’s “our guy” now?
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
Yes, Fuentes was better last year.
Compare their underlying stats. If I remember correctly, Fuentes’ WHIP was in the 1.10s while Frankie’s was near 1.30. Then factor in that Fuentes pitched half his games in COL while Frankie pitched half of his in LAA.
I think he actually may be better
People tend to think that Fuentes doesn’t strike out as many hitters as Frankie because he’s a lefty and whatnot, but the dude fanned 82 in 62.2 innings. Coupled that with his excellent walk totals, and I think he’s definitely on par, if not better, than K-Rod (at least the 2008 version) even if we consider the transition from the NL to the AL.
replacement level analysis
I would say the Angels are in NEARLY the same shape as last year. The 5th starter position makes me nervous in 2009; the 2009 OF is more solid with the addition of Abreu. The ’pen is still solid.
We’re good.
I'm glad Fuentes is no K-Rod
What were the percentages of scoreless innings again? Something like 30% for Frankie and 47% for Fuentes. Fuentes is way less of a heart attack.
Welcome Bobby 'Big Bat' Abreu.
I don't know
I think I might actually miss Frankie’s three-walk innings next season. It certainly wasn’t all enjoyable, but it was a hell of a ride.
replacement level analysis
it was a hell of a ride
except me going to the A’s game to see him break the record again, see teixeira take the lead with a 2run HR, only to be blown when frankie grabbed the punt and threw it into a bin full of spare balls.
Driven into right-center field, Erstad says he has it...the Angels, world champions!
Also, we're not done
Ninja is hinting heavily that we’re “still looking for opportunities to improve our ballclub” and whatnot (not an exact quote, but close). There will be a Trade.
Agreed
however I think Figgins stays and we trade MI, maybe even Wood, maybe not.
Without Figgins our leadoff spot is an abysmal hole of bleak horribleness filled with great suckyness and low OBP.
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
agree we'll keep figgins
disagree wood is on the trading block
i think aybar, izzy, srod, mathis are major candidates for trade (maybe even juan)
5th starter 5th starter 5th starter.
Then let’s talk.
Whatever dude.
by Mayheminthehood on Feb 12, 2009 7:41 PM PST reply actions
way better
we’re way better now than at the start of 208. We were better before abreu.
now the end of 2009: we’re about the same i think right now. we were slightly worse before abreu.
then again, doesn’t matter. all that matters is we get some guys hot in the playoffs. right place, right time. That’s why we won in 2002. It’s not like we were clearly the best team in MLB that year…just the best at the end.
Go Angels!
It's hard to tell
I expect our bullpen to be awesome: Young guys getting better, vets in the mix, and Fuentes is a strong closer.
Our starting pitching should be at least as good: Young guys getting better, vets in the mix, and many in line for the 5th starter spot to replace a so, so ERA guy.
Offense appears about even (not counting the yankee guy). Maybe better with the surgeries and new workout routines (ie Howie on the radio the other day).
On second thought, I think we should be a little better.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
if we were to get a proven fifth starter, id say this team is better.
but until then, i say its a wash.
I'm saying Even Steven
Last year we had Tex for 2 months where we spent most of the year with Kotchman who had below average power and OBP. K-Rod was great but I don’t think we will miss him too much with Fuentes now, who had better peripherals in a much more hitter friendly ballpark and he has the advantage of being in a new league and facing hitters who are unfamiliar with him and his deceptive delivery.
With Abreu, we will have his solid OBP for the entire season. He has some pop and is an upgrade over GA. Also, it gives us another SB threat. If you look at our lineup, we don’t have any super blazing fast guys but we have a lot of above average speedsters who can swipe 20+ bags (Figgins, Abreu, Hunter, Kendrick, Aybar, Izturis, and hell even Wood).
by Chzburger Jones on Feb 14, 2009 10:21 PM PST reply actions
Random note on the Abreu signing:
Does anyone else think it’s weird that Reagins said he would not sign Manny because he wanted to give his young players a chance to play? Well, in that regards, how is signing Abreu any different? He is the same as Manny in the fact that he is an aging OFer that would create the same logjam.
I think it’s pretty obvious that Reagins is afraid of Manny’s clubhouse presence despite Scioscia being all for Manny. I guess there is a disagreement in upper management on the issue.
by Chzburger Jones on Feb 14, 2009 10:27 PM PST reply actions
If he could have signed Manny for $5mil, he would have.
by snowhor on Feb 14, 2009 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point.
I didn’t really think of that.
My bad.
by Chzburger Jones on Feb 15, 2009 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
it depends on who is displaced i guess
This could mean that Figgy is about to be traded.
That'll only happen if that one prospect is the second coming of Christ and redemption for mankind can only be achieved by smacking many balls out of the yard.
-The Limey
by anaheim angels on Feb 16, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting results.
About the same number of people think we go into 2009 with a better team as the number of people who think it’s a wash. The six people who thought we were already better before Abreu are the clear minority…but obviously hardcore Angels fans.
I don't know...I'm makin' this up as I go.
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