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Not a plug, a solicitation: Do you think PECOTA has a blind spot when it comes to Kendry, and if so, what is it? I tend to mistrust PECOTA on unique-type players, so is there something that makes Kendry unique? Projects .253/.295/.389 w/ 11 homers this year.

almost 3 years ago Tiny Sam Miller OCR 33 comments 1 recs  | 

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The reasoN:

If PECOTA or some other system like it would simply factor in MLE (Minor League Equivalency) there would be no problem.

Kendry’s playing time in the majors has been sporadic, especially last season. His long 2006 stretch was after almost no AAA seasoning.

Morales has not had a traditional development in the sense that it can be quantified in a measurable manner that renders a prediction by traditional methods even possible.

by Rev Halofan on Feb 25, 2009 6:32 PM PST reply actions  

im more curious about how often PECOTA blows a projection

because its obviously not in their best interest to tell you

by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 25, 2009 6:46 PM PST reply actions  

for instance

what did PECOTA project for Carlos Quentin last year? Im guessing it wasnt close

by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 25, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions  

My favorite projection:

Look at what they had for Andruw Jones going into last season. In all reality, who could have guessed it would be THAT awful, but even .225/.286/.300 would have been better…

by MidwayCityLivestock on Feb 26, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions  

The thing with PECOTA...

They give the average and a Top 15% and Bottom 15%, right?

They are covering their bases. Kendry doesn’t walk much, so the Isolated walk rate seems pretty reasonable. But that SLG will be quite a bit higher.

PECOTA is banking on him not hitting for a high average, while Acuda and others expect him to hit .280 or higher. I think that PECOTA has as good a chance as being right as Acuda and the like – you just don’t know. .253 is low, but I could see him hitting .260-ish – that wouldn’t be too much better than PECOTA on the OBP front, but again, that SLG is way too low.

I tend to think that he is going to turn in a decent season – but nothing earth shattering. His lack of plate discipline will cost him with big slumps…

Something like .270/.315/440 seems like a fair prediction.

He could perform better and get somethings like: .290/.340/.460 and then you have a decent player.

Splitting the difference between those two is probably fair: .280/.330/.440. That is a .770 OPS which isn’t great, but about what Kotchman was producing at the time of the trade last year – that’s about what I expect to see this year. Best case scenario is that Kendry puts up a couple of GA-like seasons (vintage 2002 or 2003) at his peak – but time will tell.

by jimmuscomp on Feb 25, 2009 7:34 PM PST reply actions  

Bill

Pecota is the A-1 system when it comes to projecting established major league talent.

It only breaks down in 2 places that I know about:

1. Where a major leaguer has a major power sapping injury that he played with, but is now fully healed. (possibly like Griffey Jr.)

2. Minor leaguers with very little MLB time. Some rookies just crap the bed when they hit the big boy league (at first), and some seem to have been almost bored in the minors (like we hope is the case with Kendry). Kendry seemed to do the best in the toughest spots, so there is hope for him, but we need to be ready with a plan B (and not a plan Q). Maybe one of our OF can learn to play 1B.

by elricsi on Feb 25, 2009 7:39 PM PST reply actions  

I believe Juan Rivera

Learned some 1B last season when he was recovering. Perhaps he’ll fill in?

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Feb 25, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I've read that elsewhere as well

Though I don’t have a link. It would be a good way to keep Juan’s bat in the lineup if we want to DH Naps occasionally. If his defense is at least adequate, it’d be a much better option than Quinlan.

by Brew Angel on Feb 25, 2009 10:26 PM PST up reply actions  

there does not exist a better option than the Q

Robby “Pujols” Quinlan is truly being robbed by this whole Morales sitch

by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 26, 2009 8:27 AM PST up reply actions  

I know

I can’t wait to see him get 600ABs for some other team and hit .330.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Feb 26, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

PECOTA - and other projection systems - seriously discount what happens in the PCL

A Halos prospect would have to hit something like .400 in Utah to project to hit .300 in the big leagues (I’m exaggerating only slightly). I think it’s a flaw in their algorithm, frankly, driven by the Halos’ string of mediocre offensive debuts by position players who had schooled the PCL (Napoli and Willits excepted).

The system projects smaller losses of BA from players coming out of lower levels in the minors – for example, according to PECOTA’s VORP projection, Clay Fuller and Kendry Morales will have approximately the same offensive value. I’m high on Clay, but not that high!

by rghan on Feb 26, 2009 12:46 AM PST up reply actions  

The CHONE system

is the A+ projection system. www.baseballprojection.com

I really am not comfortable bragging. There is really little difference in projection systems. But when people start bragging on PECOTA, I take issue. The evidence that it’s better than anything else is that they cherry pick their best projections and throw them on the back cover. My system has been just as accurate, if not more so.

It’s your choice Angel fans, take the system developed by an Angel fan that has predicted the last 2 division titles, or stick with PECOTA, that has underprojected the Angel win totals by a combined 45 games from 2004-2008.

by RallyMonkey5 on Feb 27, 2009 6:28 AM PST up reply actions  

This just in....

Acuda is threatening to mutilate and decapitate all people associated with PECOTA!

Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!

by Angel Hawker on Feb 25, 2009 8:32 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

I'll fund that campaign

Acuda, while you’re at it, hand PECOTA spoon so it can EAT MY ASS!

by Sethy on Feb 25, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Operation "SPOON" has been activated

LOL

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Feb 26, 2009 12:37 AM PST up reply actions  

ROFL

Are you Cleo? Or did you read my Diary AGAIN?!?!?!

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Feb 26, 2009 12:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Not a chance.

They must at his average batting second. He won’t be batting second.

Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.

by vladtheimpaler on Feb 26, 2009 2:01 AM PST reply actions  

Because PECOTA is a bleeping idiot

I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?

by hauldog on Feb 26, 2009 10:42 AM PST reply actions  

I kinda agree with those projections

Morales walks so rarely, he going to have to get lucky (I hate having to use the “L” word) and have a BABIP above average to be effective.

I was uncool before uncool was cool.

by WiHaloFan on Feb 26, 2009 11:21 AM PST reply actions  

Great article over at the OC Register

Morales’ shot at being an average offensive 1st baseman rests on his ability to hit .300 over a large sample size. I think that’s far more possible than PECOTA gives him credit for, if not overwhelmingly likely.

by rghan on Feb 26, 2009 4:10 PM PST reply actions  

Fear the expectation value

I like to think of projections as averages instead of predictions. PECOTA is really just taking a weighted sum of the possible outcomes, but you lose information in the process. Like, suppose that PECOTA’s sentient hyper-optimized player similarity algorithm decides that Kendry Morales has a 50% chance of being Jeff Mathis (.200 AVG) and a 50% chance of being Howie Kendrick (.300 AVG). Then his projection for next year would be:

AVG = (50%)(.200) + (50%)(.300) = .250

It looks like PECOTA is predicting that he’ll be Gary Matthew Jr, when actually he has a 50% chance of hitting .300, which I think we can all agree is much better than Gary Matthews’ chance of hitting .300. True, he has a 50% chance of totally sucking, and this is reflected in the lower projection, but you lose sight the optimistic side of the evaluation. In reality, there’s probably no chance of Kendry Morales hitting .200 over 400 or 500 ABs—if he was doing that poorly, he would be removed from the lineup after 200 or 300 ABs (Scioscia only lets his mancrush Jeff Mathis get away with hitting less than his body weight). But PECOTA can’t account for these higher-order effects and just computes anyways.

Projections for young players are going to be screwed up like this because there is such a wide range of possibilities. Technically, it’s not screwed up: this is how it’s supposed to work, but it’s much more reliable for experienced players who have already established levels of performance over the years.

by Suboptimal on Feb 26, 2009 4:43 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

okay let me try something

I semi-respect PECOTA but here is that last two sentence paragraph of yours sentence rewritten with TWO CAPITALIZED WORDS ADDED to make everyone BEWARE of predictive “systems”:

Projections for young players are going to be screwed up like this because there is such a wide range of possibilities WITH ASTROLOGY. Technically, it’s not screwed up: this is how it’s supposed to work, but it’s much more reliable for experienced players who have already established levels of performance over the years.

Get it?

by Rev Halofan on Feb 26, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

PECOTA hates on me

I don’t let it bring me down.

by linkbruin on Feb 27, 2009 1:10 AM PST reply actions  

Dont worry, she's a Witch with a capital "B"

Just use your pimp and to keep the hoe on check.

Put Kendry Morales at 1B, and move Sean Rodriguez to 3B......NOW LETS GO WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by acuda27 on Feb 27, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

.270 Kendry Morales batting average over/under

I will take the over. No way .253. That is a 1967 Bobby Tolan Strat-O-Matic card!

by Yetijuice on Mar 2, 2009 5:15 PM PST reply actions  

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