Reagins Talking To Dunn or Abreu?
by Nolan Tanana on Feb 6, 2009 11:39 PM PST
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PrintKen Rosenthal says that yes, indeed, he is! While we have all learned that the Angels won't be signing Manny Ramirez, there is still hope that they will be signing a big bat.
Dunn would make an interesting DH, given that he can't field at all, Abreu, obviously would be the more complete player of the two.
If they could be signed for roughly the same amount of money, who would you prefer?
This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.
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Abreu
Not quite the butcher that Dunn is in the field and, facts are facts, Abreu is who the chicks think is cuter of the two, don’t you want to take a chick to the game and let her look at cute guys to inspire her to pretend that you are someone else when you go back to her place?
Rev,
you been sippin on some sauce tonight?
wow
"Sometimes I'm a Closer... Sometimes I make it Closer"
Nah just keepin you all alert
Never half-read a post, you might not knwo what you are agreeing with.
I thought we agreed Bobby = Oompa Loompa
that must mean Adam Dunn is very unattractive in your eyes
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 7, 2009 8:31 AM PST up reply actions
Rev--I like Abreu
but lets face it….neither of these two dudes are eye candy for the ladies.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Feb 7, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
Abreu is a disaster
I was in Philly for his last season there and got to see him play everyday. He would be the least clutch player I have ever seen if I hadn’t seen Chone Figgins during the playoffs.
The entire city was happy to see him leave for New York and I can’t say they were wrong seeing that the Phillies have since made the playoffs 2 years in a row (which they had not done at all with Abreu) and have a ring while the Yankees missed the playoffs for the first time since before Joe Torre arrived.
I heard the EXACT same thing from Philly Fan two years ago
I don’t think it’s a coincidence
It's late.
that’s a sloppy link. Sorry. But I would be remiss if I didn’t give the appropriate, and self-serving, hat tip (Three Days of Cryin’).
Between those two, Dunn would seem to bring more power (something the Angels need) and he’s younger (the Angels’ outfield is old enough).
Age
Age doesn’t matter on a one year contract. Dunn’s a whiff.
If the Angels fail to sign either of these players it is your fault for failing to mention and link to your blog in every single sentence. The occasional sentence without a mention or link is so making Reagins unfocused.
Age does matter, even in a one-year contract.
The likelihood of steep decline increases with every year of age (I’m sure you remember Steve Finley). Abreu is significantly older than Dunn.
Thank you for the reminder, though, I’d hate to be the cause of the front office’s failure or lack of focus.
by Nolan Tanana on Feb 7, 2009 12:49 AM PST up reply actions
But Finley's decline happened over one season.
In 2004, he was very solid. In 2005, he was suddenly atrocious. That was a product of his age.
he was not just all of a sudden terrible in 2005
because he was six months older than he was in 2004.
'Course
That doesn’t explain continued terrible performance in 2006 for the Giants (triples aside…)
Light Up That Halo!
I agree
I’m just not going to attribute someone’s drastic drop-off in production simply to the fact that they went from 39 to 40 years old. They guy had an unbelievably inconsistent career and was a risky pick up. He didn’t just all of a sudden get worse because of his age. I mean, is there really a difference between 39 and 40 when it comes to major league production?
Uhh
Abreu is an atrocious fielder. Worse than Dunn.
replacement level analysis
They're both weak in the field.
Not sure anyone’s worse than Dunn, and Abreu is certainly more athletic.
by Nolan Tanana on Feb 7, 2009 12:50 AM PST up reply actions
Point being
Neither of them would really suit our team. With Vlad’s aging knees in the DH spot, the most obvious solution is to get an OF that can actually field.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 7, 2009 1:00 AM PST up reply actions
Hm, link didn't post.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2008&month=0
UZR has them 2nd and 3rd worst in the ML, while Fielding Bible lists Abreu as one of the bottom 5.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 7, 2009 1:01 AM PST up reply actions
looking here, dunn is a bad (but not godawful) LF
but a horrific RF completely killed his UZR. His LF last season was between Ibanez and Burell and 4th worse. Abreu was second worse RF at -25.9. Dunn is -13.5 which makes him over a full win better defensively than abreu
fangraphs
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
but but
all OC fans are racist and we dont like any players that arent the same skin color as us.
Thank god that asshole Rodriguez left
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
if OC residents are measured by discrimination against skin color
Hank Conger will be the only Angel getting any cheers.
You say there isn't any hate here
Yet you refer to K-Rod as an asshole for no apparent reason.
Did he right Jeff Miller’s column that day?
damn
posted in the wrong place
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
Whoops.
Hadn’t noticed that. I’ll see if I can find another one.
Did you happen to notice about that photo, though, how much pine tar Tanana has on his left thigh? Needless to say, the rules have changed a bit over the years.
I say no to both
Sock the money away and give the boys a chance. Let’s see what we got. With Willits healthy and Napoli set to get some serious DH (and GMJ coming back), I’m already set with the team/outfield we have.
Sock the money away for the future for a major player. Not some half asses.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
Outfield, DH:
Rivera, Hunter, Vlad, Willits, GMJ, Figgins, Napoli, AAA
Infield: Figgins, Wood, Aybar, Iz, Rodriguez, Howie, Morales, AAA
Time to give the boys their shot and sort ’em out.
Sometimes, when you don’t try to buy a world series, you get one anyway.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Feb 7, 2009 1:16 AM PST up reply actions
I seem to remember a team that did that, once
But the early 2000’s—-2002, maybe??—were so long ago it’s hard to remember which one it was…
Light Up That Halo!
You can't buy it
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Feb 7, 2009 1:56 AM PST up reply actions
Great point
But we did import a lefty power hitter for that year.
". . .and the young lions will lock horns!" -- Ron Fairly, from an Angels telecast
right
and Im sorry Abreu or Willits? Abreu or GMJ?
Are we really having this discussion?
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Feb 7, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
GMJ will be MIA
…for the first few months of the season, recovering and rehabbing from his surgery.
Granted, neither of these men is a leather replacement for GMJ, but the bat is the thing (as Shakespeare might have written, had he not given up drinking).
What strikes me is that Abreu and Hunter posted very similar numbers in 2008—Abreu had more AB, which bodes well, and had more hits overall—while Dunn had a higher OBP than either Abreu or Hunter. What makes me suspicious of Dunn’s OBP is the number of walks, and while it shows he has patience and a good eye, I wonder how many of the walks were IBBs without the formality of the catcher calling for 4 wide ones—just pitching outside the zone, trying to get him to bite and more than willing to put him on if he doesn’t. If pitchers are willing to pitch around Dunn and not challenge him, then the Angel offense is only as good as the guy hitting after Dunn.
That leads to the obvious question: Which man (Dunn or Abreu) would do a better job adjacent to Vlad? Dunn, hitting behind Vlad, might cause Vlad to see better pitches, but Abreu could replace Teixeira in the #3 spot and get on base for Vlad, advancing the runners (Figgins, possibly Kendrick). Dunn has three possible outcomes (walk, HR or strikeout), while Abreu offensively brings more to the table—at age 34, the man had 4 triples, for God’s sake! Figgins has 4 triples in 2007 and 2008 combined.
If the deal is for one year only, I say sign Abreu. I think offensively he is more well-rounded. Interesting that he hasn’t hit a lick in Angel Stadium (though it has been against our pitchers, natch), but he rakes in Fenway and the Cell, which are very good signs, plus the domed stadia (the Trop, Rogers and Metrodome), which have historically been tough spots for the Angels.
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 7:34 AM PST up reply actions
IBBs shouldnt matter
Also, coincidentally Abreu and Dunn had the exact same number of XBH (and Dunn in 100 less ABs). The glove should factor in because as i posted above, Dunn is a full win better than Abreu with the glove (although probably going to be closer to 1/2 a win because of DH time). Dunns OBP without IBBs is .378, which is still higher than Abreus.
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
IBBs shouldnt matter
Also, coincidentally Abreu and Dunn had the exact same number of XBH (and Dunn in 100 less ABs). The glove should factor in because as i posted above, Dunn is a full win better than Abreu with the glove (although probably going to be closer to 1/2 a win because of DH time). Dunns OBP without IBBs is .378, which is still higher than Abreus.
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
IBB don't matter
That wasn’t what I was mentioning.
What I wrote is that we don’t know how many of the walks Dunn received were due to the pitcher simply pitching around him, since the following hitter (mostly Edwin Encarnacion on the Reds and Mark Reynolds on the D’backs) wasn’t a sure thing to make the opposing team pay. The opposing pitchers had the luxury of being able to nibble at the strike zone and keep the ball out of Dunn’s wheelhouse, simply because if Dunn was walked, the next batter wasn’t going to remind anyone of the ‘27 Yankees. Since the pitcher is nibbling and not throwing an intentional (wide) ball, it counts as a walk and not an IBB, which inflated Dunn’s OBP.
Adding to the incentive to walk Dunn is the fact that he is a clog on the basepaths, making him easy to double up or at least force at 2B.
That is why I don’t put a lot of stock in Dunn’s OBP. If he enjoyed a big hitter behind him, I’d put more faith in the idea that the walks are a byproduct of a skilled, selective batting eye. That has a lot to do with it (he doesn’t go fishing often), but in the final analysis Dunn is going to deliver only a strikeout, a walk or a HR. If the choice is between Dunn and Abreu on a one-year deal, I choose Abreu.
Another subject for another day is that Abreu hits lefties even better than righties, while lefties neutralize Dunn pretty effectively. Again, the only reason to get either man is for his lumber, and Abreu shows to the be the better all-round hitter.
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
Even if you consider some regression
Dunn is worth the flier. He’s still 29 next season, while Abreu will be 35. While it’s true that Abreu has, and will age much better than Dunn, he’s far more prone to having a drop-off year.
Also, I see a little bit of inconsistency in your logic: you say that pitchers tend to nibble around Dunn because they don’t want to put the ball in Dunn’s wheelhouse. However, if he mashed 40 dingers even with that, then what could he do in the (marginally better, I guess? But I don’t feel good saying it) Angels lineup? Because all that’s essentially saying is that Dunn is such a good hitter they didn’t want to deal with him – I understand that the “such a good hitter” part is relative to the other Reds hitters, but still, I’d want a hitter like that on my team, as long as he doesn’t grab a glove.
But I do think we have to look into your OBP argument a little. Abreu’s OBP dropped 30 points after the trade to NYY.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 7, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
Not necessarily "such a good hitter"
…but rather someone who could hurt a bad pitch. Dave Kingman comes to mind.
Where Dunn was concerned in 2008:
24% of his AB resulted in a basehit
12% of his AB resulted in an extra-base hit (numbers inclusive of the total hits)
24% of his AB resulted in a walk
32% of his AB resulted in a strikeout
For Abreu in 2008:
30% of his AB resulted in a basehit
10% of his AB resulted in an extra-base hit (numbers inclusive of the total hits)
12% of his AB resulted in a walk
18% of his AB resulted in a strikeout
We can coo over the 40 HR, but which man was the better hitter in 2008? Which man is the better fit for the team?
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
Dunn.
He got on base more, with more power. And yes, I do remember your argument about the OBP in context, but still.
I’m not saying Dunn is amazing. He’s better than Abreu, from what I see.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 7, 2009 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
It may all be moot
If the Dodgers sign Manny (a big if, but still…), then Dunn goes to the Nationals, which would be the only team offering him a multi-year deal. He has shown little interest in playing in the AL.
Abreu may sign with the Angels, White Sox, or …? Any team which offers more than one year probably gets Bobby. I don’t imagine that team would be the Angels.
All in all, Reagins’ comments suggest Rosenthal was talking out of his ass.
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Especially since Rosenthal admitted
That the reason Reagins sounded positive about Abreu and Dunn is that Rosenthal had asked “would you be willing to look at or consider players such as Bobby Abreu or Adam Dunn?”
Granted, this is more positive than Reagins was earlier in the offseason, when he actively denied even thinking about Abreu or Dunn, but still.
Light Up That Halo!
corrections
a walk is not an AB. And those K% are for ABs meaning (PA-BB-HBP-SF) which is a total of about 135 more PAs than ABs so his actual K% of total PAs is alot less than that.
Dunn-19.1% of PAs result in walks
25% of his PAs resulted in a strikeout.
Abreus numbers also get changed a bit
Also, couldnt you say that since the pitchers were nibbling, he got less pitches to hit, and so the dropoff in walks would accompany a rise in hits as he would have protection and get hittable pitches, so the difference is negligible. (When Abreu got traded to the Yankees, his OBP and walks went down, but his average and slugging went way up, offsetting the difference.
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
Shit
You’re right, of course. I meant to divide BB into PA to compare Abreu with Dunn, but was working under a deadline.
The point regarding the “nibbling” is that Dunn’s OBP depends upon the quality of the guy hitting behind him. In the last few years, he hasn’t had a stud behind him, and he’s easy to double up if he’s on 1B. However, his K rate suggests he wouldn’t necessarily become the second coming of Bill Matlock with better pitches offered up.
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
Question though
Would the dropoff in OBP because of less pitching around him be offset by the gain in batting average and slugging due to the fact that he will see better pitches?
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
???
…so that Vlad can popup or hit into a double play on the first pitch???
Vlad needs a hitter behind him, not in front of him!
Kotch and Marek for two draft picks...hmmm, what a deal! NOT!
Worked well
…when Teixeira was hitting in front of him. Runners on base mean walking Vlad is less of an option. That means better pitches.
Nobody can do anything about Vlad’s free-swinging ways, though.
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
vlad has earned the 3 hole over his career,if you get Dunn,he hits behind him,besides yer 3 hitter cant hit 250..he has to be a better hitter to bat 3rd
for the sake of argument, guys in the top of the order should be getting on base
sadly, dunn at .250 gets on base a whoooole lot more than the guys on our team who hit .320
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 7, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
his and Guerreros OBP are pretty much the same,so I don’t know what you mean there…. All I say is he is an ideal clean up hitter,he isnt good enough to bat 3rd in the Angels lineup.. He and Guerrero would make a great 3-4 with Hunter batting 5th..or maybe we could have Maicer Izturis bat 3rd in the order,that worked out well…
Willits
We need to play the young man already and give him 500 at-bats.
He’d be Juan Pierre lite, except people would actually think he is a good player, coz he hustles and is cherubic.
Signing Dunn and/or Abreu would bury Willits and that wouldn’t be good atall.
Let's give 'em atall a shot
This is the year to do it. See what comes out.
Angel Pitching, Angel Defense - get past that.
by vladtheimpaler on Feb 7, 2009 1:59 AM PST up reply actions
NO
Juan Pierre-lite = a whole lot of crap.
Bury Willits. Bury him as much as possible.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Feb 7, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Oh Man... I am about to agree with BryanHarvey's Moustache?
Yes… bury Reggie Willits! You want to give him 500 AB’s???? are you crazy?
I would rather give GMJ 500 ABs in a heart beat. Yes I know he is hurt, but will be back fairly early in the season. I am actually okay with our OF from and offensive and defensive perspective. The bat I am looking for is at 1B or 3B.
Light up the Freakin Halo!
Neither is a game changer
However, I think it would be interesting to see either one in an Angels’ uniform.
Even with Dunn’s 40 home runs, he has never been ‘the man’ anywhere and I wonder if he is nothing more than a complimentary player that can hit a lot of home runs, get on base a little and also strike out a ton.
Bobby Abreu can probably put up GA stats with about 50-60 points on on-base percentage in Abreu’s favor.
I beg to differ
Dunn has played for the shitty Reds
Abreu for the Yanks
Ken Griffey Jr is not AFraud.
I believe Dunn’s #’s would be far more productive in an Angels uni because its simply a better offensive lineup. A lineup that desperately needs a 40+ HR guy.
How much more productive can we expect Abreu to be?
"Sometimes I'm a Closer... Sometimes I make it Closer"
Dunn as backup 1B?
Dunn would seem like a logical fit, as he’s at least played a little 1B in the past. Abreu would be another OF bat in an already full outfield. Then again, Matthews will be out a few months at least, so the OF won’t be too croweded. As long as we don’t see too much Willits.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
Dunn has said repeatedly
…no 1B. He fancies himself an OF, and frankly, if his heart isn’t in it, why try to MAKE him play 1B?
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 7:02 AM PST up reply actions
we dont MAKE him play 1B
just when kendry needs a day off we slide Dunn over for a game. He wont have any real complaints with that. Hes not a full time 1B, just the emergency backup
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
I'm drinking the Kool-aid Reagins has concocted
The insanity of this off-season has beaten me into submission.
A pox on the house of any player that takes playing time away from GMJ, Willits, or Juan Rivera.
's been much insanity...
There are loud baseball moves (signing tex, dunn, or manny), and there are quiet baseball moves (Signing Rivera and letting Wood play). Fans prefer loud moves.
When signing Tex, fell through, they moved on to plan B, a series of quiet moves that have a lot of merit. Until I read the Rosenthal column, I was applauding Reagin’s for his discipline in sticking to the quiet moves. I hope he does.
This will shut Wood out from the line-up
And therefore does nothing to help us reload for the long term. I’m with vladtheimpaler on this one.
yep
barring an aybar benching, injury or figgins trade….Wood will seemingly have to wait until 2010 to get at bats at age 25.
I dont get it. If this was the clubs strategy all along to wait out for bargains, thats one thing….but why assume a rebuild strategy for 2 months and then a week before spring training decide “oh wait, we wanna be contenders”
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 7, 2009 9:15 AM PST up reply actions
my point being
we could have been trying to build a contender for the past 2 months, not just sitting around saying we want to play the young guys.
I dont have a problem with going for it this year, but it just feels like if we sign one of these guys now, that Tony and Arte just didnt know what they wanted to do the entire offseason…which is concerning
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 7, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
the only way this makes sense
is if we’re trading either Figgins or Aybar… that’s the only way Woody gets his ABs (which he desperately needs at this level).
anybody need a leadoff guy or SS?
Kotch would've had that.
The White Sox seem to have a love affair with Figgins...
I seem to remember reading a Konerko for Figgins straight up article recently. Oh yeah, what a DEAL!
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
deal for them, maybe
maybe we could trade Figgins for some prospects… increase the depth a little bit.
the Cubs really like him, too
Kotch would've had that.
I have a lot of mixed feelings on this one...
I really don’t like the idea of signing Abreu. I don’t think he’ll hit 20 HRs in Anaheim and we don’t need another outfielder.
Dunn is a different story in my mind. He has WAY more power than anyone on this team, but is really a DH. Maybe he could play some outfield and 1st base while rotating through the DH, cause Vlad is going to need some ABs there and Kendry will need some spelling at 1st. It would be nice to have a big power threat in the lineup.
I could take or leave Dunn. Would be nice for a one-year try with a club option, but I would be happy without him too.
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
i feel the exact opposite
abreu can steal bases, hits for a higher average and gets around the same OBP
Dunn is a good power hitter, but he doesnt fit the Angels profile at all. I wouldnt be opposed to him, but if im thinking like the Angels, Abreu makes much more sense
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 7, 2009 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
RE: doesn't fit the Angels profile
that may be part of the problem right there. the “Angel profile” wins division titles (which I’m grateful for), but not World Series’. in this new age of baseball, you need a guy that can mash (a la Dunn) and also get on base. Abreu knows how to get on base, but he’s nothing more than GA 2.0.
we need a guy who can clear the bases with one swing, not another guy who will move runners over or seek to make “productive outs”.
Kotch would've had that.
i agree, i just dont feel dunn is that guy
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 7, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
he's the only guy left on the market
not named Manny.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 7, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
i guess it comes down to whats more important
settling on “the only guy left” or committing to developing the young’ns
I get what dunn does well, im just not sold that it makes as much of an impact on our team as people think. i have a hard time getting excited about a guy that cant find work anywhere outside of the washington nationals and is more or less not welcome back to the terrible team he was on before.
if he was good, wouldnt a team like cincy be jumping at having him back on a discount? theyre not and they know the most about him. that says something
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 7, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
Boys! Stop the fighting!
How would Kendrick feel to see ihearhowie2.0 and howiestheman arguing like this?
It would break his heart, I tell you… And since he breaks things all too easily, we shouldn’t tempt fate like that.
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
dude this isn't even close to fighting
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 7, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
this is civil discourse
i think both of us basically want the same things(wood playing, figgins gone), just in different ways
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 7, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
that's what she said?
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 7, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
It was a joke, guys
I just loved the juxtaposition of the two Howies going back and forth.
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
yeah i know
i was joking too
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 7, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
it could be any combination of things
maybe he made it very clear that he wants to play for a winner. maybe cincy really doesnt have money left. who knows?
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 7, 2009 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
GA 2.0
You act as if getting on base is a foot note, when its what this team needs more than anything, power included.
i dont see how either player compares to GA in terms of OBP
abreu and dunn more or less get on base at the exact same rate at this point in their careers (around .370 OBP)
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 8, 2009 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
what i meant was
Abreu is going to give you the same power numbers as GA, but with more OBP.
i’d much rather have bigger power numbers and a better OBP in Dunn
Kotch would've had that.
i really think theyre a wash
both are bad defensively, dunn crushes the ball when he makes contact, but abreu makes contact more often which is something i think scoscia would want—productive outs. i know 40 homers are great, but you gotta factor in how many rallies 200 Ks will kill also.
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 8, 2009 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
I think that's more or less negligible
A strikeout or a groundout is just as likely to end a rally. Because it seems that Abreu’s better contact rate does not translate to better on-base skills than Dunn, I think it’s a wash.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 8, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
my point was productive outs
a ground ball can advance a runner. a strike out cant do anything.
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 8, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
But, a groundball
can also become a double play. Basically, K’s are the tiniest bit worse than other outs over the course of a season – but it is “negligible” as 442 said.
Jim Scully
Dunn is a full win (10 runs) better defensively than Abreu
over 150 games defensively. But with the person we might sign, they would play mostly DH, so that value would be cut in half.
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 8, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
I just don't like Abreu...
I mean, his power numbers (i.e. slugging %) have shrunk quite a bit since he left Philly (what a surprise), but then he was hitting in ballparks like Skankee Stadium which inflates a left-handed hitters numbers.
Look at his home and road splits the last two years:
2007 Home = .326/.408/.497 (10 HRs)
Away = . 241/.330/.394 (6 HRs)
2008 Home = .311/.387/.522 (14 HRs)
Away = .279/.354/.418 (6 HRs)
Combined with his career line at the Big A (which has a big wall in right field and a lot of room)
.210/.269/.290 (1 HR)
I think it would be ugly. His stolen base percentage last year was 66% (22 out of 33), so I could live without his stolen bases as well.
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
by Angel Hawker on Feb 7, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
If we get any of them it will be Abreu
Moreno always attracts(and possibly prefers) the Spanish-speaking players. Which is fine by me.
Nothing like a lil Latino-Caribbean-South American solidarity to make our team all that much better.
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Feb 7, 2009 9:28 AM PST reply actions
but but
all OC fans are racist and we dont like any players that arent the same skin color as us.
Thank god that asshole Rodriguez left
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
OC Register racist Jeff Miller is gonna get boooooed out of town
by the OC Asian majority only cheering for Hank Conger
Asian Time!
Confucius say:
“Baseball make no sense.
Man with four balls cannot walk!”
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
by Angel Hawker on Feb 7, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
my all friends cheer loud for Conger
he is my all-time favorite player of favorite team.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 7, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
they will once conger gets called him
he will be most luminous player on my all friends favorite team!
Kotch would've had that.
not the same
If they both insist on the best deal they can get right now, then Dunn would get a longer deal for more money. If Dunn settles for a 1 year deal, I still think he would get much more than Bob.
Also, as mentioned before, both of them are pretty bad on D, but they’ll catch the routine balls.
I would sign Abreu if it was a cheap deal, 5M or so, and he understands he plays when he plays. If they both insist on playing full time, then sign Dunn, and trade someone to make room (Figgins, I guess.)
One idea would be to sign Abreu
And trade Figgins for prospects. Abreu could bat first/second (I kind of like the idea of Kendrick leading off). We trade 15 stolen bases for 15 homeruns, plus a little defense when Abreu’s on the field. Wood plays third, and everything else is a wash, including money.
could work, just feels a little drastic so close to spring training
im skeptical of either one being signed. Just feels like such a kneejerk reaction or they just got some news on a player or something. Id like to think they had a plan all along and stuck to it, and not just realizing some error so late in the game
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 7, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
here's a fun idea...
in 2009 – keep Figgins for one more year. trade Aybar for some prospects. make Wood your starting SS. sign Dunn for 1-2 years (1 with an option?).
in 2010 – slide Wood over to 3B, use S-Rod at your new SS. you save money, re-sign Vlad (assuming he bounces back), and hopefully re-sign lackey. also retain Dunn. your 2010 lineup:
Kendrick 2B
Hunter CF
Vlad DH
Dunn LF
Napoli C
Wood 3B
Rivera RF
Morales 1B
S-Rod SS
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 7, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
Once again, we see a plan that fails to make quality room for GMJ.
Therefore, I like it.
Seriously. With Dunn we will get 1 hit per night, 1 walk per night, and 1 strikeout per night. Every two weeks he will hit 3 home runs. If we put that result into a package into a current Halo uni named anything but Guerrero or Kendrick, we would be thrilled.
GMJ is a 4th OF/defensive replacement
period.
and i agree with your assessment. i see nothing wrong here.
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 7, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
I know I may get killed for this but......
I still like the idea of trading Figgins for Dye. Wood needs 500 ab’s. If Figgins in the picture that just doesn’t happen. I know it sounds crazy to want to make ab’s for an unproven guy like Wood but its long overdue. Dye is almost the same player as Abreu and Dunn plus it won’t cost as much (not that money is an issue but still…). The only reason I would lean towards Dunn (if its going to be one or the other) is because he is left handed. I know this idea makes the lead off position an issue and it would be a predominantly right handed lineup minus Aybar and Morales. But I’d like to get your guys’/gals’ input who are far more educated than myself at this stuff.
Aybar/IZ
Kendrick
Guerrero
Dye
Hunter
Morales
Rivera
Napoli
Wood
And preach some patience at the plate for gods sakes!
What in the wide wide world of sports is a goin on here?
Au contraire
Dye is almost the same player as Abreu and Dunn plus it won’t cost as much (not that money is an issue but still…).
Assuming no cash changes hands in a deal for Dye, he would cost $12.5M (including a $1M buyout of the mutual option for 2010). Either Dunn or Abreu figures to sign for less.
The White Sox were rumored to be signing Abreu for $8M, while Dunn allegedly has an offer sitting on the table from the Nationals, but he’s waiting to see if the Dodgers get tired of waiting for Manny . Dunn won’t come close to his desired $56M/4 yrs with any AL team, though. He and Abreu both figure to have to “settle” for salaries in the $6M to $9M range, since that is apparently where the market has stabilized.
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
It occurs to me
…upon reviewing the instant replay, the field judge is going to overturn the post above.
I didn’t take into account that Figgins will earn $5.75M in 2009, which means a swap of Figgins for Dye results in a net of $6.75M—and yes, that does figure to be less than the price of Abreu or Dunn. The appeal of the latter two, though, is their LH bats, while Dye is a RH bat in a lineup lousy with them.
I suspect Figgins and Speier will both be on different squads before the season is over.
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
You caught yourself..... I just realized that Abreu is a lefty though, thanks.
What in the wide wide world of sports is a goin on here?
bring in either one because if we don't...
we will hear the non-stop “we need another bat” mantra that has been playing for the last four years. here’s an opportunity to get a bat for what could be a discount price while not giving up any draft picks.
One-year contract, oh hell yes
Neither were offered arb, so we give up zero draft picks, while getting some OBP & SLG.
But if you really wanna “give the kids a chance,” that means you’ve got to trade Izturis, and probably Figgins as well. Unless Figgins is your primary insurance plan at 6 different defensive positions (not a terrible idea, actually).
Think about what the F.O. has told us this offseason:
- Not gonna sign Manny.
- Give the kids a chance, specifically naming Morales, Wood, Aybar, a 5th starter & a final reliever.
- Give Rivera 500 ABs.
- Can’t wait for a healthy Napoli.
Now think about what the F.O has not said:
- Anything about Izturis, Figgins, Willits, or Gary Matthews
What does this mean? I say it means at least Izzy & quite possibly Figgy are goners once Abreu/Dunn is signed, and we suffer through a year of brutal OF defense mixed with terrific OF/DH production. It also means that GMJ’s ass is buried so deeply on the bench that he will be incentivized to drop that no-trade faster than an HGH habit.
I for one would gladly trade Figgy/Izzy for A) whatever we can get out there (young OF prospects, anyone?), B) one year of Abreu/Dunn, and C) the chance to let Wood and Aybar become good players. Worried about the leadoff slot? Bat Abreu or Dunn there?
The end.
by mattwelch on Feb 7, 2009 11:19 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
nicely said, sir.
we could probably trade Figgins to the Cubs or ChiSox for 2 good prospects.
and you could bat Kendrick lead-off (assuming he’s healthy, of course)
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 7, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
Kenny Williams may still have a chubby for Figgy
But if he’s traded, I think you’re looking at Aybar as the leadoff (or Izturis). Kendrick has been too impatient in the past to be the leadoff guy, but I like him in the #2 spot. One of his hits with a speedy runner on 1B can be an easy first-and -third or even second-and-third for the #3 hitter.
by George Kaplan on Feb 7, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed...
Solid-contact hitter, a bit of speed, Kendrick was born to be a #2 hitter.
Peanuts...Get your Overpriced Peanuts!
by Angel Hawker on Feb 7, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
i agree he's better suited for the 2-slot
but he could work a lead-off in a pinch.
Kotch would've had that.
At this point in his career, I think he's more suited for leadoff
He’s not a very good situational hitter yet, which is what batting #2 is all about. He seems to be at his best when he has nothing to think about at all but putting the bat on the ball.
He hits enough doubles to make for the lack of SB’s. He’s a good enough baserunner to go from 1st to 3rd and 2nd to home with little trouble.
Sure, he doesn’t work the count and force starters to show more of their pitches, but if you have a #2 like Abreu or Figgins, then it’s a mute point.
uhhhhhhhh
ill take marmol
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
Marmol + Vitters for Willits
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 7, 2009 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
i feel like were giving up too much in that though
if we get a PTBNL and/or cash i think it would be fair
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 7:29 PM PST up reply actions
Why not just Willits for Aramis Ramirez straight up?
The Cubs can also have Izturis and Figgins.
The Angels will throw in Kendry if we can have Derrek Lee.
Maybe give up Izturis, but Figgins?
We have 3 shortstops including Izturis. Figgins was one of few on the Angels roster that was getting hits in the playoffs.
I like this idea better than mine.
Getting prospects in trade for figgins/ Iz is a way better idea than getting nothing for 2010. Which is what I just realized my idea would get us. Nice Welch!
What in the wide wide world of sports is a goin on here?
by AlohaHalofan on Feb 7, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
ya, the more im thinking about it...the more i think tony might be realizing that we cant bank on kendry
im all for him getting his chance to play but if he’s bad, not only is there no 1st base replacement behind him, but our lineup suddenly is pretty awful
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 7, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
agreed welch, i think the addition of...
dye or abreu or dunn while subtracting figgy makes us a much better team.
via Angelsbaseball.com
Bobby Abreu and Adam Dunn could be in the Angels’ plans, according to a report by Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com, but Reagins said he isn’t limiting any pursuits to those two big names.
“If you look at the free-agent pool, there are a lot of interesting names still out there,” Reagins said. “The question was asked if we’d be interested in any other free agents, and I said we continue to look at opportunities to get better. He ran with those names.”
Kotch would've had that.
I love how
Reagins breaks down the way that Rosenthal got his info – he rruns with a maybe into two distinct players.
which is exactly why i posted that quote.
i thought it was funny too
Kotch would've had that.
by howiestheman on Feb 7, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
He uses transparency as a weapon
Against both agents and their enablers in the media. It’s pretty awesome, actually.
Reagins must have changed his tune after we called him out in
the “Manny WILL NOT be an Angel” thread.
Recipient of the 2008 "The Iron Man" award from scottnak of Halos Heaven!
Absolutely...neither of them!
We need a position for Figgins to play to allow Wood to play 3b…
HGH is a waste of skin…
Rivera has to play everyday…in the OF or DH, not 1b or 2b…
Napoli must play everyday at C or DH…
NO ROOM FOR EITHER OF THEM!
Kotch and Marek for two draft picks...hmmm, what a deal! NOT!
The most distressing part of this is..
That 1 Angel fan in 9 believes that from a team that could not hit enough to get out of the 1st round last year, you take away Tex and GA, is fine with the current lineup. They actually seem to believe more AB’s from Willits and Matthews is all we need to offset an offense that was not good enough with Tex and GA. Look, Rivera may hit enough, Morales may hit enough…but Willits and GMJ will not. And though Dunn ain’t great in LF, did anyone actually watch Rivera stumble around out there LY? We will have an abysmal LF’er next year, one way or the other…but with Dunn, at least we’ll have a DH that can actually hit.
Who is more likely to be an Angel?
I would prefer Dunn, better power (crucial in the post-season), in his peak years, better glove, but I think it is more likely we see Abreu as an Angel because Abreu is more likely to be willing to take a one year deal (don’t see any other clubs offering anything more) and more willing to primarily DH, where he will have the most value. I think ultimately a NL team will be willing to give Dunn a shot at staying at LF for as much or more money than an AL team that would primarily want him to DH. And career-wise, if I were Dunn, I would resist the DH tag for as long as possible. But I’d be perfectly happy with Abreu, too.
If I were Dunn
career wise i would be looking at a 1 year angels offer very seriously. Great chance of making the postseason, one good year and potential awards in the postseason=bigger payday come next year. Its not like Dunn is done after this year. Hes only 29
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
Willits/GMJ
This post has re-kindled discussion of the Willits/GMJ issue, which I believe is a sort of Jeep product made by General Motors.
by SocalAngelFaninOC on Feb 7, 2009 2:24 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Adam Dunn in a heartbeat.
I am sick of the Angels thinking that a 15-20 homer guy is a legitimate “big bat”. We have a lot of guys who have 15 home run potential. Dunn is what we need but I have a feeling the organization prefers Abreu because he can steal a base and presumably bunt better.
You know...
Given the price tags, how about signing both? You could then turn around and trade Figgins to Chicago (insert team name), and Rivera and possibly cash to the suddenly cash-starved Mets, who still need a right-handed corner outfielder.
That’s about $11 mil in additions – maybe less, maybe more – and you have (1) a new lead-off hitter, and (2) a DH and potential back-up for Kendry. Wood still gets his at-bats at third.
I don’t know if I’m in favor of this – it’s just an idea – but it would dramatically transform our line-up while taking advantage of temporary bargains.
temporarily is the key word
Unless we put up 45-50/4 for Dunn he wont sign a long term contract and abreu wont be effective for long. Yes our lineup would be awesome, but it would not last long
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 5:16 PM PST up reply actions
We'd only be down Rivera going into '10.
Figgins and Izturis are gone anyway. As much as I like Rivera, he is replaceable.
yeah, my bad
Wed need to get OF propsects though from the fiigy/izturis trades though cuz if we dont we could be stuck with an OF of Willits/Hunter/GMJ (assuming Vlad is the DH) which would be underwhelming to say the least
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 7, 2009 7:28 PM PST up reply actions
Not too different than where we're at now
Abreu in left, Dunn at DH, and our infield of the present and future. Rivera’s no Mays out there, so flipping him for Abreu isn’t a big deal. When Vlad DH’s, Abreu goes to right and Dunn goes to left. And there’s always the possibility that Morales struggles, so Dunn could go to first.
I may be wrong
But isn’t there restrictions on how soon you can trade a player who was just signed this offseason?
was he ever technically a free agent?
or was his contract just “renewed”
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 8, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
Why Not?
I’d sign Dunn to a deal longer than just a year. Maybe 3 or so. Vladdy won’t be around forever.
Go Angels!!
Oh, screw it, sign them both
and play the mythical Left Field, Left Center Field, Center, Right Center, and Right Field outfield, with only 2 infielders.
That way any defensive shortcomings Dunn/Abreu have will be totally made up for by the fact they only need to cover 20 feet or so.
Best outfield of all time?
I brought sexy back, but they only gave me store credit....
That defensive alignment
would turn crappy ground ball hitters like Vizquel and Juan Pierre into hall of famers against the Angels lol.
by Chzburger Jones on Feb 7, 2009 11:29 PM PST up reply actions
I forget where I read this, but...
In the two years since Abreu’s been away from Philly they’ve won their division
In the two years Abreu’s been on the Yankees, they haven’t won their division (after winning it 9 years in a row).
I don’t think it means anything, but I did think it was interesting.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
Now that I think about it...
…in the past two years we have not had a Space Shuttle disaster, either. Nor a domestic terrorist attack. Nor a nuclear power accident. Nor a catastrophic earthquake in Southern California or Indonesian tsunami.
Perhaps having Abreu on the Yankees makes the world a slightly better place.
by Stirrups on Feb 8, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, big mistake...
The last tiime I mixed those two, I thought I would get a twisted Long Island Iced tea…or at least a Bronx bomber.
Instead, it tasted like a wet kiss from the Philly Phanatic. Did I even get a lesson in causaton!
I’m Dunn.
I think that has more to do with
The rise of Ryan Howard, Cole Hamels, Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley rather than the departure of Bobby Abreu.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 8, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
Philly Fan hated Abreu and you will too
When he went to the Yankees 2 years ago, Philly Fan told me EXACTLY what Rhapsode posted earlier (good riddance) so its not hindsight. Forget his numbers. He’s non-clutch and will frustrated the hell out of you. Especially in the playoffs.
Be VERY AFRAID of the Oompa Loompa.
At least Dunn has the potential to clear the bases like Naps did.
"Non-clutch"?
I don’t have years of experience observing Abreu, but his stats from 2008 show in games with 2 out and RISP (60 PA/55 AB) he hit .382/.433/.618, with 2 HR and 29 RBI over those games. Those are better 2008 numbers than GA, Hunter or even Texieira (though he had 5 HR in 87 PA/65 AB).
Late and close (94 PA/83 AB) he posted .361/.436/.578 with 2 HR and 23 RBI in that subset. Again, he posted better numbers overall than GA or Hunter (not as good as Teixeira there, but Abreu isn’t going to cost $185M, either).
The point is, his clutch stats are superior to both GA and Torii, who had the role of being though of as the go-to guys in the lineup until Teixeira came along. Even if the Philly fans think otherwise, I don’t see a reason to be uncomfortable with Abreu, based upon his performance in 2008.
by George Kaplan on Feb 8, 2009 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
Yup
Small sample size, anyway
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 8, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
Understood
I wasn’t striving for absolute scientific accuracy. I was simply viewing Abreu through the prism of the charge that he was poor in the clutch. On the basis of his performance as a 34 year old on the Yankees, he posted better numbers than the guys we employed in that capacity (around Vlad) last year. As such, he would seem to be a step up from those we’ve used previously.
I have no illusions that he would turn out to be Teixeira at a bargain rate. I was simply curious about the charge that was wasn’t good in a clutch situation, since it doesn’t seem possible that a guy who drove in 100 RBI in six successive seasons did so with none of those runners scoring in game-critical situations.
by George Kaplan on Feb 8, 2009 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
wouldnt that also be affected by who hit behind him
I mean if Arod hits behind you, with RISP, your gonna see some pitches
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 8, 2009 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
Unless it's the post-season
Then they’ll walk you to pitch to A-rod.
by George Kaplan on Feb 8, 2009 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
My "non clutch" assertion...
is by no means scientific. It’s based solely on the coincidence the the only two people I’ve heard comment on him (who watched him every day) said pretty much the same thing. It’s totally a perception. I’ve barely seen Dunn, too. I just like the 40 bombs or whatever he hit
Oh yeah, GMJ had few walk-offs last year, too.
Abreu
Seems like if a players gives off a ‘bad body language,’ then he is not a clutch guy. Part of the problem with Abreu’s clutchness is basically fans’ perception of him.
He is basically GA [in many sorts of ways] with a much better on-base percentage.
Could be
My guess is that someone was at a Phillies game and the situation called for a clutch hit, and that day Abreu didn’t come through—and forevermore, he would be identified by this person as not being able to deliver the clutch hit. One single episode becomes a complete definition of the player’s ability.
We tend to take these things more seriously when our dollars paid for the tickets and beer that day.
by George Kaplan on Feb 8, 2009 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
Good guess, but not the case
I’d be skeptical too if I didn’t know the source. And if he’s basically GA, well, I’ll save you the trouble…
I'd say
Hes basically a left handed Tim Salmon, if we want to use a Halo reference. Remarkably consistent, solid power, patience, and at times, incredibly frustrating. How many first halves did we have to suffer through as Tim tried to find his groove? The difference (besides health later in their careers) is that Halo fans knew and appreciated what they had. Phillie phans… you know the story there.
What scares me about Dunn
He reached based 244 times last year and only scored 79 runs. If you take out the 40 homers, he only scored 39 runs on 204 times reaching base, which seems abysmal. So the bulk of his worth isn’t necessarily for the OBP, but on the homers, since offense is all about runs scored and RBI. Coming from the NL with weaker pitching and 2 relatively good HR parks in Cincy and Arizona, we should expect a decline in the HR dept, especially since Dunn’s prime physical years are in the past.
Dunn did have pretty even home/road HR splits and it’s true that he had some weak bats behind him, but given a choice between Abreu and Dunn, I pick Abreu. Abreu is less dependant on the HR to get his 100/100 runs and RBI, which is important when playing in the Big A. Plus Abreu actually reached base more than Dunn last year, is more likely to go 1st to 3rd, and is not as 1 dimensional.
Abreu batted .296 with RISP, Dunn about .240.
Well, if he was batting 5th in the Cincy lineup...
That means that he had slots 6 – 7 – 8 and a pitcher behind him to get him home from 1B. Not exactly Murderer’s Row on any team, much less the Reds. And you should check splits and see how frequently that gang had a full 3 outs at their disposal in which to get him in.
He didn't always hit 5th, either
Baker sometimes slotted him 6th and even 7th in the lineup when Griffey was still with the team. While this bears out what you say above, it also says something about Dunn’s bat in the Reds lineup if Joey Votto and Edwin Encarnacion are seen as more productive hitters than Dunn.
by George Kaplan on Feb 8, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah,someone said Dunn got on base more then our .320 hitters,and that ebing only Guerrero,I checked the OBP and they were about even,Vlad doesnt walk nor K much,so he is going to put the ball in play and therefore hit into more DP,but given the choice I like Abreu,because he fits the Angels style of baseball,which is aggressive baserunning and putting pressure on the defense,plus he has better all around numbers,its not all about the HR,though having Dunn as a cleanup hitter isnt that bad…but no way is Dunn a 3 hitter based on his high OBP,Guerrero is the only legit 3 hitter on the team right now.. It is a tough choice between the 2, but Abreu is a better all around player,but he is also 5 years older then Dunn,and what could Dunn do with Guerrero in front and Hunter behind, he had good numbers with not a whole lots of help in Cincy,less a few Griffey years.He does K a lot so yer 3 hitter can’t be a guy that is not making things happen..plus Vlad is a doubles machine,gotta have someone that can run in front of him so he can drive those runs in,hit and run and challenge the defense to make the plays…Seems everyone just wants a HR guy,and that is fine,I would love to see either of these guys on the team,they both have there plus and minus,and both would only help the team in the offense department.
How is that his fault?
Damn Dunn. The players behind him in Cincy couldn’t hit – friggin’ lazy, good OBP, high SLG, decent glove SOB. We don’t want to sign him – he didn’t make everyone hitting behind him better. He wasn’t transformative enough!
Lame.
Jim Scully
by jimmuscomp on Feb 8, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, he does play some part
When you’re slow as hell and only go station to station and have your worst OBP with no outs, you can’t entirely blame the lineup behind you.
Nobody said it was "his fault"
But unless the manager is completely inept, a batter typically finds himself in the spot which is best suited for his talents. Guys who are clots on the basepaths seldom find themselves in the top half of the lineup. Occasionally, yes, but seldom.
But I appreciate your attempts to put a shine on a turd by describing Dunn’s defensive ability as “decent glove”. I am sure that would even make him blush with a bit of shame. It certainly would bring peals of laughter from Reds fans.
by George Kaplan on Feb 9, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
it was Dusty Baker
the man who hates “basecloggers”. he’s probably pretty inept.
Kotch would've had that.
Clot or not clot...
OBP is why Dunn should hit in the top half of a lineup – slow or no – dude mashes.
His defense might not be stellar, but he’s a full win better than Abreu with the glove – so when compared to the other guy in this conversation Dunn is definitely decent with the leather
Jim Scully
Being better defensively than Abreu...
…is not the same thing as being “decent with the leather”. Sucking less is not an indicator of quality.
by George Kaplan on Feb 10, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
like
“smartest retard”
forgive me. I could not help myself
I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?
smartest retard is still smarter than the dumbest retard
Nobody can say Dunn is good with the glove, but we can say he is significantly better than Abreu. Is Dunns bat worth 1 win less than Abreus? Most likely not, as one could easily argue the other way around as well (Dunn is 1 win better with the bat than Abreu)
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 10, 2009 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
Figgins
Even if we sign no one else, I feel a trade of one of our infielders is necessary. If Wood and Aybar are to get regular playing time, that pushes Chone Figgins to the outfield, a position he really hasn’t played since ‘06. If I remember correctly, when he was out there he really wasn’t good at all, and when the team asked him to play winter ball to learn the finer points of center, he decided not to. Now, at age 31, hes supposed to learn the outfield again? His bat doesn’t “play” at third, but at least hes shown a good glove there. Stick him in the outfield and just about all of his value vanishes.
I’m in the minority here that thinks Figgy will have a bounce back year. So my question is who do we trade Aybar to and what can we expect to get in return?
aybar wont be traded
unless the front office REALLY likes sean rodriguez.
figgins is in a contract year so it doesnt make sense to trade the guy whos 25 and under control for a while to accomodate the position of a guy who wont be here in 12 months. Figgins plays 3rd base, aybar and wood battle it out in spring training and then whenever howie gets hurt, they both play
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 9, 2009 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
Aybar is our only decent glove in the whole freakin lineup
Trading him would be a disaster.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
Torri, Figgy, Howie, (probably) Wood
yeah, those guys all BLOW at fielding.
Kotch would've had that.
Admiral
He’s a young guy who was a top of the lineup ‘ignitor’ in the minors. I say let the Angels figure out if he can be Rafael Furcal-lite in the Major Leagues before giving up for him.
Everyone is so hard-up to trade Chone Figgins but I also think he will have a bounce-back year, one that will not be appreciated as all people can talk about is anticipating his so-called departure [one way or the other] in lieu of favoring an largely unproven player like Brandon Wood.
He won't ignite anything
Until he learns to take a few pitches. Though Figgy discovered some patience after a few years so I guess its not totally hopeless. I guess I got off the point though… are we all really that comfortable having Figgins in a corner outfield spot? Cuz thats where we’re headed if all three (Figgy, Admiral, and Dick) are to be in the starting line up regularly.
Dunn
Published reports from Phil Rogers of the Chicago Tribune have the Astros planning on offering him a deal.
Problem is, Astros GM Ed Wade doesn’t have any plans to sign Dunn or Abreu, since he says the team is covered in the OF and 1B.
MLBTR is reporting
that we have “strong interest” in Abreu.
it gives a link to an ESPN Insider thing. anybody have it?
Kotch would've had that.
that I should learn to post in one post.
That the Angels are looking to move someone.
Which means – - –
Rivera and Abreu split time at DH and RF.
And if Figgins isn’t moved, Wood isn’t getting ABs
Really?
Which means – – –
Rivera and Abreu split time at DH and RF.
So Vlad rides the bench?
by George Kaplan on Feb 10, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
easy there, George. Don’t they split time in LF? It was a simple slip of the keyboard by JC, I assume.
by Downing Rules on Feb 10, 2009 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
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- Shane Victorino lands role on ‘Hawaii Five-0′
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