Maybe add a dash of Orlando?
by gitchogritchoffmypetis on Feb 9, 2009 3:28 PM PST
57 comments
So the Doyers, Skankees, Gnats, and New Jersey Mets are interested in Orlando Hudson. I can't figure out why he's still unsigned, I mean he hits well, has three gold gloves, what's not to love?
In fact, as I look at him, he seems to be what we hope Howie Kendrick becomes. Now it puts a cold plum pit of worry and sorrow in my heart to think this way cause Howie's one of my favorite Angels, but my brother and I were talking, and it got me wondering:
Why not sign Orlando Hudson with a little of that cash we were gonna lather all over U-Haul Teix and package Howie with a couple of our "not quite closers", "not quite catchers" and "not quite shortstop/third basemen".... and maybe an outfielder like Willits and get an ace for the staff and a first baseman? We could offer to rebuild the Padres for Peavy and Adrian Gonzalez perhaps... there are any number of teams that, with a huge enough infusion of young talent that we can't gainfully employ in Anahiem, would be willing to part with the two or so established stars we need right now to go toe to toe with the Bosux and Skankees.
I mean, I don't know, I'm actually happy to sit back and see what Johnny Rivers, Mike "The Mountain with No Neck" Napoli, Howie, and Kendry can do with a big pile of at bats. I also feel that Vlad's done limping around now and is due to start swingin and smiling again. If things break right this year and a couple of these "could be" players start living up to the hype we may forget Teix's name by July.
Still if you're one of those folks who feels SOMETHING MUST BE DONE! then why not go with this plan?
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Well uh let's see uh ... here is why
Angels Middle Infield depth chart:
Kendrick
Aybar
Wood
Izturis
Figgins
S-Rod
combined salary of above: About what the aging O. Hudson expects to get paid for 2009.
by Rev Halofan on Feb 9, 2009 3:31 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
add that to the fact that
THE PADRES WILL NOT TRADE ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
didn’t we go over that a month ago?
Kotch would've had that.
About a dozen times, yes
And Kevin Towers has been very clear that Gonzalez isn’t leaving SD. He is signed very affordably for $3M in 2009, $4.75M in 2010, and peaking with a team option for 2011 for $5.6M.
His is not the sort of contract the Padres need to divest. There is ZERO incentive for the Padres to trade him.
by George Kaplan on Feb 9, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
seriously
you trade stars to shed salary and HOPE to get a player who blossoms into a star for cheap.
AG is already extremely cheap and extremely productive. In terms of trade value on this day, he might be the most valuable player in baseball alongside Hanley Ramirez when you factor contracts in. Towers would get fired the next day for trading him
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 9, 2009 6:12 PM PST up reply actions
Towers wouldn't survive until the next day
The rabble from the village, freshly liquored up from bar-hopping in the Gaslamp District, would storm Petco with torches and pitchforks that night, drag Towers out of the executive offices and do unspeakable things to him.
by George Kaplan on Feb 9, 2009 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
but howie will prob. tear his hamstring in his third game
and blow in the playoffs
Tex went to the dark side.
by vlad IS my man on Feb 9, 2009 7:19 PM PST up reply actions
rec'd
my thoughts exactly. Did you not see the pile up in the infield of young, highly talented infielders with tons of potential?
by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Feb 9, 2009 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
We could
Make him play CF and move Hunter over to LF… (That doesn’t sound like such a bad idea, actually)
But yeah. That’s not going to happen.
replacement level analysis
ya, all torii did was win a gold glove in center field last season
why not throw a second baseman there to replace him
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 9, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Yes, let's base our entire evaluation of a player's fielding ability on gold gloves
Rafael Palmiero, 28 games at 1B? Gold Glove.
Nate McLouth, worst range factor in the entire major league? Gold Glove.
Derek Jeter, continually getting worse and worse in the field? Gold Glove.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
way to deflect the utter ridiculousness of suggesting we get orlando hudson to play CF
real effective.
Torii Hunter is a premier center fielder. Moving him from center field not only makes NO sense whatsoever, but it diminishes his value he has and thus makes his contract worse.
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 9, 2009 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
wait, what?
My point was that Hunter isn’t an elite, or “premier” center fielder any more. I don’t care how many Web Gems he gets on Baseball Tonight, or whatever Rex Hudler may tell you. Orlando Hudson, being an excellent second baseman (although his defense did seem to slip last year) would have a decent chance at performing well in CF, which is roughly equal on the defensive spectrum as his original position, while Torii would be well-suited for a corner outfield, being easier to play. He would definitely be an upgrade over Juan Rivera, or whoever we may be looking to sign to play there. His contract has nothing to do with what I’m talking about.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
Good answer
I like the part where you provide evidence.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
Hey let's take "a chance"
on converting a NL 2B into our CF because Rafael Palmeiro was once awarded a Gold Glove.
And be dry and elitist to anyone who disagrees with our inane suggestions cooked up on superior stat-squatch mountain.
You can’t swagger with stats and then pull stuff like that out of your ass and expect people here to have ANY respect for you. You pointed out that Derek Jeter was popular with the media but that does not make you Bill James Junior.
I'm pretty sure I suggested I wasn't exactly leaping with joy at the idea
I was trying to reply to the original post by throwing something out there. I even qualified it by saying that I don’t really believe it’s going to happen. It’s not any more far-fetched than the original suggestion in the post anyway.
As for my response to ihearhowie, yes, I probably could have been less of an ass, and I do apologize for that, but when someone calls me out for something that I said (based on something as ridiculous as Gold Gloves) and doesn’t back it up themselves… well there you go.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Palmeiro Palmeiro Palmeiro
I just wanted to let you know that the sophistication of your confident argument was about one-hundredth as clever as you thought it was.
I was pointing out that Gold Gloves are meaningless
I think that was enough proof for that.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 9:18 PM PST up reply actions
Define meaningless
Seriously – specifically what percentage of Gold Glove winners were, in fact, the most deserving? Hey innocent men are occasionally found guilty, we better let Manson out of jail. That is your argument.
I understand the argument, but you are pulling an outlier into the argument to attack someone’s attack on your proposal that is stupider than the writers voting for Palmeiro.
Clearly some Gold Gloves are not awarded correctly – guess what – some teams with the best record in abseball don’t win the owrld series – ah that stupid postseason and the suckers who cite it as proof of a team’s greatness.
Put up or shut up – what is the failure rate of gold gloves and is it relative to the failure rate for the team with the best record in baseball to win the world series?
You are NOT going to get away with it.
You can't assume that OJ is completely innocent because he's out of jail, either.
(Oh, yeah, I forgot. Never mind.)
I can’t point the “specific percentage”, as the defintion of “being worthy for a Gold Glove” varies from person to person, but I think I can confidently say that Gold Gloves are flawed enough to the point that it’s not an acceptable tool for evaluating defensive talent.
I agree, some Gold Gloves are given “correctly”. Adrian Beltre? Great choice. Carlos Beltran? Solid. However, also given the plethora of awful choices, I don’t think it’s acceptable to deem a player as a great fielder just because they win a glove. Palmeiro is obviously the example that everyone rags on, but recent miscues include Nate McLouth and Michael Young and a lot more. I’m pretty sure I can name a few more players that may have been decent, but didn’t deserve to win the award at all. Also given that Gold Gloves are discrete (you either win it or you don’t) rather than something that can be quantified qualitatively, I don’t see it acceptable to judge a player’s abilities on whether he won a Gold Glove or not. Add the fact that a lot of these are given based on reputation, rather than actual analysis, and it just makes the case worse. (Case in point : Remember, when Aaron Rowand cracked his face open a couple years back? He won a GG then, despite missing quite a few games.) There are outliers at both ends (and I know I’m quoting a lot of them to prove my point), but with the failure rate so high (I would probably put it at around 25%, but that depends on how we define "failure"), a player winning the award doesn’t mean defensive greatness.
I think you know yourself that the who wins the World Series is a whole different matter – random variation vs. horrible judgment. And FWIW, I personally don’t consider a team “great” just because they win the whole shebang one year.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
so you are stating that GG voting is wrong 1.5 - 2 times out of 18 attempts
Okay, now on to your suggestion – how many NL 2B were successfully converted to AL CF and posted numbers that justified their salary and outperformed the players they passed on the depth chart?
Now you're just putting words in my mouth
I don’t believe I suggested that Hudson would do any of those things. I was mostly considering the defensive aspect of things when I wrote my comment above, and was toying around with the idea. If you read my arguments, you’ll find out that they against ihearhowie were against his arguments that GG are a reasonable tool for defensive evaluation, not in defense of my little idea about Hudson in CF. Please don’t extrapolate that to make as if I wrote things that I don’t believe in.
But, for what it’s worth, I think it’s pretty interesting that there have been quite a few 2B who have made a successful defensive transition to CF. BJ Upton, Chone Figgins, Craig Biggio, Chris Burke. So there you go.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
Figgy in CF
genius folks… and 2nd place, oh but places in the standings don’t necessarily make teams “great” in fact there is no quantification for when to put quote marks around GREAT or not…
i'd just like a metric that shows me orlando hudsons a better CF
being that there isnt one, i felt the recommendation that we remove a guy who is at best great and at worst an overrated gold glove winner from his post to make room for a guy who’s never played it on the basis that hes “really athletic and good at 2nd base”
i feel like im taking crazy pills that i even have to reiterate my logic. And no, im not going to look up defensive metrics on torii hunter to argue that he’s better than someone whos never played the position. People who even try to engage in such an argument need to step away from the computer and leave the stats alone
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 9, 2009 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
whoa there
i should proof read more often. major run-on sentence there.
i felt the recommendation that we remove torii for orlando on the basis that hes athletic was ridiculous
by ihearhowie2.0 on Feb 9, 2009 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
i would like to see a stat
that shows run-on sentences are quantifiably less understood than sentences that do not run on. put some off you english teachers to work…
Dude, I was done arguing that like 6 posts ago.
I never said I was a staunch supporter of the “Orlando Hudson to CF” movement anyway, but if you’re still trying to crucify me over it, then go ahead.
replacement level analysis
Upton cut his teeth as a SS in the minor leagues
I guess I already used my Manny bomb for the month?
Really?
I always thought he was a second baseman (albeit a pretty bad one)
replacement level analysis
Its not
that gold gloves themselves are any indicator of what value a guy brings to the table defensively, but any defensive analyst worth their salt knows better that to rely on a single metric over a single season to determine how good a guy is with the glove. Torii, from what we know, is at least a solid center fielder who gets great reads and very rarely makes mistakes out there. Maybe he doesn’t have the range of a Carlos Gomez but overall hes got to be a plus with the glove. And I have no problem factoring the anecdotal evidence of “experts” into the equation (even Rex) as every defensive metric is still an imperfect work in progress, like it or not. Considering the offense we get from him in center, it’d be a waste to stick him in a corner.
Now that they need a second baseman..
Don’t be surprised if the Cardinals sign him, after releasing Adam Kennedy today, they have a hole to fill at second.
if Schumaker can learn 2B
he’s their best option… he’s a solid lead-off hitter, and his numbers play well at 2B.
Kotch would've had that.
makes sense
with STL’s crowded outfield and whatnot, but would he be able to handle the position change?
My solution : Howie Kendrick for Albert Pujols, straight up.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 7:23 PM PST up reply actions
if they wont do it we could always throw in willits
and if they still dont budge well add in Moseley. But i think we might have to get a propsect back in return, cuz were giving up a lot there
Lets go angels
by anaheim angels on Feb 9, 2009 7:25 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I don't know if I'm willing to pull the trigger with Willits in the deal.
I mean, Pujols is decent in his own way, but he’s no Reggie Willits.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
Decent?
The man’s pretty much the best offensive player right now, last years NL MVP. As I said in my fanshot today, I’d give almost anyone on our roster right now plus Kendrick for Pujols. However, they will probably never give him up for anyone on our roster.
by TheAntiSox on Feb 9, 2009 7:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Your assignment
Read the following as many times as necessary until you spot the joke:
Yeah, I don’t know if I’m willing to pull the trigger with Willits in the deal.
I mean, Pujols is decent in his own way, but he’s no Reggie Willits.
by George Kaplan on Feb 9, 2009 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
Learn something about baseball, plz
Did you know that Pujols is THREE AND A HALF years older than Howie? Plus, Kendrick had four more stolen bases than Pujols last year. Pujols is a huge baseclogger who wouldn’t fit the Angels at all, and he’d be blocking Kendry Morales! That guy is going to be huge!
Also, did you know that Pujols had ZERO sacrifice bunts last year? Kendrick had one. That means HK47 is leading AP5 (what kind of nickname is that? Lame.) by INFINITY percent!
The intelligent vote for NL MVP last year, of course, was Ronny Cedeno. Willie Bloomquist for the AL.
(Just kidding.)
(It was Chris Bootcheck.)
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I wet myself a little
The intelligent vote for NL MVP last year, of course, was Ronny Cedeno. Willie Bloomquist for the AL.
(Just kidding.)
(It was Chris Bootcheck.)
by George Kaplan on Feb 9, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
Bootcheck rocsajdfhahahahahahahha
I just can’t do it.
replacement level analysis
by 442 on Feb 9, 2009 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think so. I agree with you original point that Pujols is much better than Willits.
I mean Reggie Willits is great and all, but Albert Pujols is so much better. Every day I seem to read something blathering on Reggie Willits this, Reggie Willits that, blah, blah, blah. Every day. It doesn’t end and I don’t get it.
I’m beginning to think that people are confused about who Reggie Willits is, because it makes no sense to gush over him so much. I don’t think these people even watch baseball at all. And they should, because it’s a luminous sport. I study every match and that’s how I know Albert Pujols is much better player than Reggie Willits.
Has anyone seen my keys?
Found them. Nevermind.
Thanks for your help, though.
it isn't losing your keys that is the sign
it is not recalling exactly what the keys are for.
by Rev Halofan on Feb 10, 2009 12:42 AM PST up reply actions
But who's going to be the better player in 5 years?
Dammit, where’s my glasses.
I was uncool before uncool was cool.
Yeah
I’m betting everything I have that Willits will win 2 MVPs by the time he’s 28. You watch it’ll happen.
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