Be careful what you wish for

by surfpunk on Apr 20, 2009 4:20 PM PDT Comment 31 comments

I want to remind all the Frankie haters out there what the Angels bullpen looks like without him. All he did for the Angels was set a single season record for saves and help the Angels win there only World Series. So as I start to read posts demanding that we get rid of Howie and bring in someone from the Bees I just want to say...... be careful what you wish for

Go Angels!!!!!

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan. Tell us what you think and how you feel.

0 recs | Comment 31 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Howie?

i don’t think anyone wants to get rid of Howie. i’m still glad Frankie is gone.

by HALO_86 on Apr 20, 2009 4:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

the bullpen

would have still been crap for those games even if Frankie was still here.

by Doctor Wu on Apr 20, 2009 4:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

who wanted to get rid of howie?

also, im not sure the closer position has been the problem in the bullpen. Sure, fuentes coughed up one game, but its not like frankie would be coming in in the 6th or 7th, which has been when these games are imploding. Frankie makes maybe one games difference.

RIP Nick Adenhart

by ihearhowie2.0 on Apr 20, 2009 4:46 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

more than one

I think Fuentes’ early performance somewhat dictated his participation in the recent series, which impacted bullpen usage and possibly cost the Halos another game, or two.

by jjackflash on Apr 21, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Luckily for me..

I’ve never hated on Frankie. And I haven’t hated on Howie, K-Mo, the Admiral, Fuentes, Johnny Rivers, you get the idea. I’ve tried to stay positive, and remind myself and others that it’s still very, very early. As for B-Wood, I’m not sure that he’ll be the saviour offensively everybody thinks. Not saying he couldn’t be, not saying that he would. I for one wouldn’t get rid of HK and have never thought that the answer lies in getting rid of him, maybe not bat him in the 2 hole, but that’s it.

YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE.....

by halofolife on Apr 20, 2009 4:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Honestly

I think we could see the Angels lead the league in blown saves and could lose a playoff spot because of it, but Angels fan would still be yapping about how losing K-Rod was a necessary evil, he was too greedy, too arrogant, blah, blah, blah.

The only current Angels’ player I gladly will pile on is HGH and even I want to see him to live up to the contract he signed.

by BBFan1 on Apr 20, 2009 4:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

that is point exactly

by surfpunk on Apr 20, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lets not forget that Arrondondo and Shields

pitched in before Frankie in most of those saves. We still got those same dudes and they have had a couple of rough outings.

Point being, regardless if Frankie was here or not, those games would still have been lost because frankie would have never seen the mound.

Do it for Nick '09

by BryanHarvey'sMoustache on Apr 20, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

If I could give you 5 more recs, I would

You nailed it with precision.

The problem this season has never been the loss of Frankie, since he didn’t enter the game before the 9th inning last year, never pitched more than a single inning, and didn’t come into the game with anything less than a tie score or a lead.

Maybe surfpunk can show us the number of games this season which fit this profile and we can discuss how the loss of Frankie has impacted the team.

The problem, of course, has been the inability of the bullpen to deliver a lead into the 9th. Frankie would have seen very few games—about 3—thus far in 2009, based upon the way Scioscia handled him in 2008, and in only one of them would his presence have possibly changed the outcome to a W.

I never understood the fanboys who worship the Save stat, and I suppose I never will—few stats are as misleading and meaningless as that one.

by George Kaplan on Apr 21, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I think Soth

is going to use Fuentes the same way a Frankie. No more than 1 inning. Friday’s game would have been a great opportunity for Fuentes to get a 4 out save.

we have a 2 run lead with men on 2nd and 3rd. Morneau is coming to the plate. Why not bring in Fuentes? It’s a lefty – lefty matchup. The Twins are not going to pinchhit for him. I know that it’s only one game, and we’d be 5-7, but sometimes you need to change your thinking.

RIP Nick. The Angels and their fans will always remember you.

by billhune on Apr 21, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just curious but....

… what is your take on the “hold” stat? Or do you view that the same as the “save”? Some believe the actual “save” part of the game comes earlier like in the late 6th or 7th innings when the opposing team is threating to tie or take the lead. And they make a very valid point in saying that, But teams will obviously use their “closer” or supposed “best pitcher” in the last inning when the tying run comes to the on deck circle or the “save situation”. Which I still don’t understand…… Regardless, The reason I ask is because I’ve heard a growing number of people say that the “save” is a BS stat, I’m torn about it because I don’t believe the stat accurately potrays a pitcher level of skill as well as say ERA or WHIP. But it does give some insight to coming through in tight situations in however many chances.

What in the wide wide world of sports is uh goin on here???

by AlohaHalofan on Apr 21, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Saves

In days of yore, the “closer” would enter the game in the 8th inning when the starting pitcher was starting to falter, and would end the threat and ultimately close out the game. The term “fireman” was used often to describe the closer. Back then, a complete game was the goal of any starting pitcher.

In more modern times, the starter is often asked to give 6 good innings, whereupon a tag team of pitchers would pitch the 7th, 8th and 9th innings.

Frankie pitched in some pressure situations. He also created some of those pressure situations all by himself. But what is important to recall is that most of his appearances in 2008 began with the bases empty and no outs in the 9th. Rare was the time he entered the game with runners on base and the game on the line.

Furthermore, due to the arcane nature of the Save stat, Frankie could—and did—enter the game with a 3 run lead, pitch the 9th and leave the game with a Save. It is a far cry from those relievers who entered the game in a crisis situation, restored order, and preserved a win for his team.

I agree heartily that the “save” in the game, often, rightly belongs to the guy who comes into the game in the 7th or 8th and ends the threat from the other team. However, he gets a “hold” while the guy who pitches the 9th gets the save, even if the latter encountered no threat in his 1-2-3 inning. Yet all many will remember from the game is the save.

by George Kaplan on Apr 21, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I for one, am glad he is gone

I can honestly say i do not miss him one bit and i agree that having k-rod pitching middle relief would have not made a difference. He and shields are clutch when it comes to giving up go-ahead/game ending homers.

NA 34

by blochead on Apr 20, 2009 6:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

the mets placed O’Day back on rule 5 waivers and the Angels can claim him for 25,000. They would have to get rid of somebody on there 40 man but I would do it especially with the way the ’pen is doing.

R.I.P. Nick Adenhart you will forever be missed...

by angelskid2210 on Apr 20, 2009 6:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

DO ME A FAVOR GUYS

when you make a fanpost or a fanshot … PUT THE SUBJECT OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IN THE HEADLINE. Maybe Mention Frankie if you are talking about missing Frankie. Okay? Next time, do that, all of yous guys and gals. Thanks.

by Rev Halofan on Apr 21, 2009 12:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Tags help, too...

nobody uses tags … this one could have used “Francisco Rodriguez” “Scot Shields” “Jose Arredondo” “Brian Fuentes” “Mike Scioscia” to better link to other stories around SBN and HH.

RIP Nick Adenhart - Angel fans will never forget you!

by Downing Rules on Apr 21, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ah thanks

didn’t know about using tags.

I have nothing important to say.

by thrill000 on Apr 21, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We don't even know if the closer is the problem

We can’t get there.

And although I do like Frankie, what are you going to do if a guy wants to leave.

Angel Pitching (Adenhart), Angel Defense - get past that.

by vladtheimpaler on Apr 21, 2009 2:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm still glad he's gone

He was greedy and arrogant. Good riddance

RIP Nick. We will miss you!

by KingF15h on Apr 21, 2009 12:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

don't forget "talented."

RIP Nick Adenhart - Angel fans will never forget you!

by Downing Rules on Apr 21, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, T.O. is tallented too.

Would you want him on your team? Talent isn’t everything.

Besides, it’s just my opinion. I never liked Frankie. Sue me

RIP Nick. We will miss you!

by KingF15h on Apr 22, 2009 5:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Frankie = TO, I'd agree...

but that equation is not balanced. You are right, it is your opinion, so I respect it. My opinion is that Frankie is good. Deal with it, too! ;)

RIP Nick Adenhart - Angel fans will never forget you!

by Downing Rules on Apr 22, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh, there is no doubt that he is good

he’s really good! I just can’t stand his over the top antics after a save. It’s always bothered me. I just don’t like players like that no matter how good they are.

RIP Nick. We will miss you!

by KingF15h on Apr 22, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh come on...

Frankie never kept a Sharpie™ in his sock… at least as far as I know…

Angels fan since '67

by red floyd on Apr 22, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol!

RIP Nick Adenhart - Angel fans will never forget you!

by Downing Rules on Apr 22, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greedy

Damn him for wanting market value after playing all those years getting paid no where near market.

I think the greed angle is one of the most tired takes about Frankie. Just lame.

Play Wood already. Willits sucks.

by hauldog on Apr 21, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

he didn't get that much more money from the Mets

The contract we offered him was pretty close to what he got in NY

RIP Nick. We will miss you!

by KingF15h on Apr 22, 2009 5:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A year earlier in a completely different market.

Play Wood already. Willits sucks.

by hauldog on Apr 22, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep...

he was expecting >$15M per annum, since the Joe Nathan and Mariano Rivera precedents had been set.

Free agent pricing collapsed in the 2008-2009 winter. It was not expected, otherwise, the Halos might have offered Frankie 3yr/$37.000001M to stay.

RIP Nick Adenhart - Angel fans will never forget you!

by Downing Rules on Apr 22, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

my point

my point was everyone always thinks the grass is always greener…..screw Frankie we have shields or a free agent…screw Howie we have Woods….and i just think its a number of things and not just one person……also the season is still young but it will be june before we know it……sorry about the subject rev. i will go and ask forgiveness at the alter of D. Boon.

by surfpunk on Apr 21, 2009 4:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs